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      Roberto Firmino Player Thread (F)

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      HScRed1
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2070: May 02, 2019 09:24:25 am
      Was a massive loss last night not just in a attacking sense.

      Has been said by many but we really donā€™t have anyone who can deputise.
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2071: May 02, 2019 12:00:01 pm
      Was a massive loss last night not just in a attacking sense.

      Has been said by many but we really donā€™t have anyone who can deputise.

      It became more apparent and clearer than ever last night that outside of the front 3, we are incredibly limited. I think Mane and Salah played well; they had the defence scared and were going past them with ease and with Bobby there, it would have created even more problems but Gini made it incredibly easy for the defence and didnā€™t really support Salah and Mane. With Bobby playing, he drags players out of position, hassles them constantly and creates things that makes it easier for the other 2, take Bobby out of the team and we donā€™t have that. The fact we have Origi and Sturridge but go with Gini I think speaks volumes of how badly we need to strengthen the attack.

      I donā€™t feel as though everyone appreciates how vital Bobby is for us but last night he showed just how much we miss him if he isnā€™t on the pitch.
      After about 5 minutes of being on he came so close to scoring, but for a line clearance.

      Heā€™s the ultimate number 9 for the way we play.
      heimdall
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2072: May 02, 2019 12:04:58 pm
      Was a massive loss last night not just in a attacking sense.

      Has been said by many but we really donā€™t have anyone who can deputise.

      Maybe not but Gini certainly wasn't the best alternative, I know Klopp doesn't fancy Shaquiri, for some unknown reason, but this could have been a perfect match for him or Origi with his pace.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2073: May 02, 2019 12:07:11 pm
      Maybe not but Gini certainly wasn't the best alternative, I know Klopp doesn't fancy Shaquiri, for some unknown reason, but this could have been a perfect match for him or Origi with his pace.

      See this quoted quite often but I have yet to see this pace that Origi is supposed to possess.

      Never seen him beat a player for pace.
      heimdall
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2074: May 02, 2019 12:11:29 pm
      See this quoted quite often but I have yet to see this pace that Origi is supposed to possess.

      Never seen him beat a player for pace.

      I have, he's not lightening but he's pretty quick and he's certainly a more natural striker/link up man than Gini. I really thought that was an odd move. Personally I would have played Shaquiri, but as said Klopp does not trust/like him in his team which makes me curious why the hell he bought him!
      Scotia
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2075: May 02, 2019 12:25:42 pm
      Any sense that we could ā€œdo betterā€ should be stripped after last night.

      Our most important player bar none.
      Swab
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2076: May 02, 2019 12:28:39 pm
      Any sense that we could ā€œdo betterā€ should be stripped after last night.

      Our most important player bar none.

      Agreed.
      When I see so many in the transfer thread wanting "a proper number 9" I wonder if these people even understand how we play.

      Decent backup, certainly, we need that, but replace Firmino with "a proper number 9"? Madness.
      FL Red
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2077: May 02, 2019 12:31:58 pm
      See this quoted quite often but I have yet to see this pace that Origi is supposed to possess.

      Never seen him beat a player for pace.

      Hahaha, you and I both. Origi is not fast. He may be able to run fast in a race, but with the ball at his feet, he's not really quick at all, he doddles, waits to make decisions and is generally not that effective. Think Barca was worried when we brought him on last night?
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2078: May 02, 2019 06:21:53 pm
      Agreed.
      When I see so many in the transfer thread wanting "a proper number 9" I wonder if these people even understand how we play.

      Decent backup, certainly, we need that, but replace Firmino with "a proper number 9"? Madness.

      So if Klopp bought a Suarez, Lewandoski, D.Costa, Cavani type 9's, you really think he would have them play a false 9 role like Firmino? That's what you seem to be suggesting. We have seen Firmino, Mane & Salah play higher up as a 9 and work, just like you see Fabinho the DM work. A proper 9 can work, but it would be an alternative.

      And who said anything about replacing Firmino with a proper #9?
      « Last Edit: May 02, 2019 06:28:30 pm by PurpleMonkey »
      FL Red
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2079: May 02, 2019 06:27:27 pm


      And who said anything about replacing Firmino with a proper #9?


      Or having one of those aforementioned partner with him when Salah or Mane is out or need a break?

      I'd have nothing wrong with that type of alternative. I love Bob as much as anyone, one of my favorite players (if not my favorite) but surely we can't have all of our eggs in his basket...because then if he gets injured or God-forbid decides to move on, we can't be left toothless in attack.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2080: May 02, 2019 06:33:58 pm
      Or having one of those aforementioned partner with him when Salah or Mane is out or need a break?

      I'd have nothing wrong with that type of alternative. I love Bob as much as anyone, one of my favorite players (if not my favorite) but surely we can't have all of our eggs in his basket...because then if he gets injured or God-forbid decides to move on, we can't be left toothless in attack.


      I would even go as far to say a classic 9 that's good with his head could be more effective than Firmino , especially vs defensive teams seeing how exceptional our full backs (and Hendo) are at crossing the ball. Imagine a player similar to Lewandoski up top. Would certainly give us a different dimension and alternative.
      Swab
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2081: May 02, 2019 06:53:38 pm
      So if Klopp bought a Suarez, Lewandoski, D.Costa, Cavani type 9's, you really think he would have them play a false 9 role like Firmino? That's what you seem to be suggesting. We have seen Firmino, Mane & Salah play higher up as a 9 and work, just like you see Fabinho the DM work. A proper 9 can work, but it would be an alternative.

      And who said anything about replacing Firmino with a proper #9?

      So a player like that would come here to spend most of the season on the bench.
      Right.

      Unless you've been in a coma for the last few years, it's clear that Firmino is integral to the way we play, and it works.

      Stop regurgitating what you read on twatter.
      It's boring and nonsensical.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2082: May 02, 2019 07:49:24 pm
      So a player like that would come here to spend most of the season on the bench.
      Right.

      Unless you've been in a coma for the last few years, it's clear that Firmino is integral to the way we play, and it works.

      Stop regurgitating what you read on twatter.
      It's boring and nonsensical.

      By your logic, if we buy a Lewandoski or a Torres in their peak years, they would be spending most of the season on the bench and offer less for the team because they can't play like Firmino.

      An alternative striker can work. We have seen it here and when Klopp was at Dortmund, just like the specialist in Fabinho has worked when the majority didn't expect Klopp to buy that type of player. I bet a DLPM or a playmaker would probably work too, but it all depends on how good the player is. Football is not as linear as you think, and certainly not for Klopp as he has shown this season.
      Swab
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2083: May 02, 2019 09:18:09 pm
      By your logic, if we buy a Lewandoski or a Torres in their peak years, they would be spending most of the season on the bench and offer less for the team because they can't play like Firmino.

      An alternative striker can work. We have seen it here and when Klopp was at Dortmund, just like the specialist in Fabinho has worked when the majority didn't expect Klopp to buy that type of player. I bet a DLPM or a playmaker would probably work too, but it all depends on how good the player is. Football is not as linear as you think, and certainly not for Klopp as he has shown this season.

      By your logic, what has worked so well, and is a system Klopp has built because he is such a huge fan of Firmino should be dismantled and a one dimensional player brought in to replace him.

      Fabinho rotates the 6 (ish) position with other midfielders.
      I can't believe I actually have to explain that.
      Anyone who watches a match, rather than posting on twatter all the way through, knows this.
      It is amazingly clear for anyone to see, if they are actually paying attention.

      I can't believe you don't understand that Klopp values fluidity above fixed positions, and asks his front 3 to rotate and take up different positions, the same as he does with his midfield.

      Like I said, stop repeating bullshit you read on twatter.
      It's 99% nonsense.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2084: May 02, 2019 09:57:42 pm
      By your logic, what has worked so well, and is a system Klopp has built because he is such a huge fan of Firmino should be dismantled and a one dimensional player brought in to replace him.

      You do know we have had Salah as the 9 and Firmino as the 10 a few times this season, right? Think about it, if we had Torres or Lewandowski as the 9 instead and Salah on the right... Just think about it, seriously.

      And show me where I want things dismantled and Firmino to be replaced, please do.


      Fabinho rotates the 6 (ish) position with other midfielders.
      I can't believe I actually have to explain that.
      Anyone who watches a match, rather than posting on twatter all the way through, knows this.
      It is amazingly clear for anyone to see, if they are actually paying attention.

      I wouldn't quite say he rotates, but gets cover when he plays aggressive and steps up in which one of our 8's drop in.  Remember, Fabinho is predominately in the 6 area as a DM and is more the specialist player than the 2 #8's or any of our midfielders.

      I can't believe you don't understand that Klopp values fluidity above fixed positions, and asks his front 3 to rotate and take up different positions, the same as he does with his midfield.

      You don't think a striker can do that? Do you think a striker just stays up top and never moves? Have you never watched or played football before? You do know you get strikers working channels or dropping into pockets of space, right? Go watch the likes of Werner, Suarez or Lewandowski etc..... better still, go watch our matches where Salah is our 9.

      Like I said, stop repeating bullshit you read on twatter.
      It's 99% nonsense.

      What am I repeating exactly? I don't have twitter nor do I scour it for football chat. Couple of forums and the odd article is all I read, so please show me what I am repeating.
      Swab
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2085: May 02, 2019 10:48:29 pm
      You do know we have had Salah as the 9 and Firmino as the 10 a few times this season, right? Think about it, if we had Torres or Lewandowski as the 9 instead and Salah on the right... Just think about it, seriously.

      You do know that Mane, Salah, and Firmino are forwards, not what you term "number 9" and that the foundation philosophy is that they move around, they rotate, they take up different positions according to Klopp's system of the player finding himself in a particular space will perform the function of that space
      .Salah, Mane and Firmino, during a match, will all occupy what you like to think is the "9 position".
      I seriously can't believe that someone who bangs on about knowing loads about football can't grasp this, and all you're doing is providing further evidence that you're a spoofer.

      Yet again, you completely miss the point of Klopp's system.


      Quote
      I wouldn't quite say he rotates, but gets cover when he plays aggressive and steps up in which one of our 8's drop in.  Remember, Fabinho is predominately in the 6 area as a DM and is more the specialist player than the 2 #8's or any of our midfielders.
      He rotates, as do all our midfielders.
      It is the foundation of Klopp's system.

      Quote
      You don't think a striker can do that? Do you think a striker just stays up top and never moves? Have you never watched or played football before? You do know you get strikers working channels or dropping into pockets of space, right? Go watch the likes of Werner, Suarez or Lewandowski etc..... better still, go watch our matches where Salah is our 9.

      Firmino knits the attack together.
      He goes, right, left, central, supports, presses, drops deep, plays as an extra midfielder.
      He is the glue that not only binds the attack but links the midfield.
      He is a forward, an attacking midfielder, a wide forward and a link man.
      No, I don't think many players can do that, and I don't think there is a player around that could step straight into the team and do the job as good as him.

      But keep chucking names out, like you understand what those guys do.
      You're bound to get it right if you throw enough names out.
      The stupidity of this is on a par with you insisting that Gerrard and Lampard were "a classic double pivot".


      Quote
      What am I repeating exactly? I don't have twitter nor do I scour it for football chat. Couple of forums and the odd article is all I read, so please show me what I am repeating.

      Bollocks.
      You're so full of sh*t.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2086: May 02, 2019 11:42:37 pm
      You do know that Mane, Salah, and Firmino are forwards, not what you term "number 9"

      Where am I calling them 9's? There is a difference between calling them 9's and saying they have played as 9's.

      Yet again, you completely miss the point of Klopp's system.

      No, I understand how fluid we are, but I also acknowledge a striker can offer something different and still be fluid, maybe not so much as if Firmino was in the team, but fluid enough.

      they rotate, they take up different positions according to Klopp's system of the player finding himself in a particular space will perform the function of that space
      .Salah, Mane and Firmino, during a match, will all occupy what you like to think is the "9 position".

      Just like 9's can occupy wide areas or pockets of space and perform the function of that space....like Firmino. Maybe not as good, maybe as good or better in certain areas.

      Firmino knits the attack together.
      He goes, right, left, central, supports, presses, drops deep, plays as an extra midfielder.
      He is the glue that not only binds the attack but links the midfield.
      He is a forward, an attacking midfielder, a wide forward and a link man.
      No, I don't think many players can do that, and I don't think there is a player around that could step straight into the team and do the job as good as him.

      But keep chucking names out, like you understand what those guys do.
      You're bound to get it right if you throw enough names out.

      Jesus Christ, Swab!!!!!!  I am talking about an alternative 9, someone like a Lewandoski or a Torres type. Whether someone with potential or established. A player who can offer something different to our attack like what Alcacer offers to Dortmund, like what Giroud offers to Chelsea etc.

      The stupidity of this is on a par with you insisting that Gerrard and Lampard were "a classic double pivot".

      What is it that I am missing to not see the significant difference? There have been so many varied partnerships out there that were considered double pivots, from Khedira & Alonso, Essien & Ramires , Modric & Rakitic, Xavi and Xabi, Masch & Alonso, Gerrard & Lampard, Kante & Drinkwater etc etc

      And yeah, Gerrard and Lampard have played for England in a formation that used a double pivot. I assume you consider a DLPM & DM a classic double pivot ? If so, you lie yet again and as shown, I did not use the word, "classic".

      Gerrard and Lampard were more rotating, one would go and one would stay in a 2 man midfield, therefore considered a double pivot...

      A double pivot is a sitter and a DLP or box to box.

      ... right? Same with Wijnaldum and Fabinho when you said Wijnaldum was more the sitter and Fabinho the more offensive :)

      « Last Edit: May 02, 2019 11:48:46 pm by PurpleMonkey »
      heimdall
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2087: May 03, 2019 09:22:07 am
      So a player like that would come here to spend most of the season on the bench.
      Right.

      Unless you've been in a coma for the last few years, it's clear that Firmino is integral to the way we play, and it works.

      Stop regurgitating what you read on twatter.
      It's boring and nonsensical.

      Ever heard of rotation, you know the kind of thing Citeh do when they have more quality players than they can fit on a pitch at the same time, one player plays one week then another player plays the next, pretty F***ing radical I know!
      It is insane that we only have 3 quality attackers when we play 3 attackers every game, we've been ludicrously lucky with injuries tot he forwards all season.
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2088: May 03, 2019 11:06:50 am
      Dont know that we need a 9 but we need another forward who Klopp will play of injury occurs. Sane and Mahrez sit on Citys bench, we can find someone like that to do it here.

      We are good enough to attract a player who wants to have a crack at a club like ours but might not be automatic first choice.

      It doesn't have to be Origi and Sturridge any more. We're better than that now.
      Swab
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2089: May 03, 2019 11:29:31 am
      Where am I calling them 9's? There is a difference between calling them 9's and saying they have played as 9's.

      No, I understand how fluid we are, but I also acknowledge a striker can offer something different and still be fluid, maybe not so much as if Firmino was in the team, but fluid enough.

      Just like 9's can occupy wide areas or pockets of space and perform the function of that space....like Firmino. Maybe not as good, maybe as good or better in certain areas.

      Jesus Christ, Swab!!!!!!  I am talking about an alternative 9, someone like a Lewandoski or a Torres type. Whether someone with potential or established. A player who can offer something different to our attack like what Alcacer offers to Dortmund, like what Giroud offers to Chelsea etc.

      And yeah, Gerrard and Lampard have played for England in a formation that used a double pivot. I assume you consider a DLPM & DM a classic double pivot ? If so, you lie yet again and as shown, I did not use the word, "classic".

      Gerrard and Lampard were more rotating, one would go and one would stay in a 2 man midfield, therefore considered a double pivot...

      ... right? Same with Wijnaldum and Fabinho when you said Wijnaldum was more the sitter and Fabinho the more offensive :)

      What you want, is to replace a player in a system that has scored us more league goals than last season, got us a record points tally, and 2 champs league semi finals.

      This is just more of the "Firmino isn't a proper striker" bullshit from a few years ago.

      You've heard some random pundit say "they need a proper number 9" and you've posted it.
      Simple as that.

      It's bollocks.
      Swab
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2090: May 03, 2019 11:31:45 am
      Dont know that we need a 9 but we need another forward who Klopp will play of injury occurs. Sane and Mahrez sit on Citys bench, we can find someone like that to do it here.

      We are good enough to attract a player who wants to have a crack at a club like ours but might not be automatic first choice.

      It doesn't have to be Origi and Sturridge any more. We're better than that now.

      Yep, we need better backup, or even someone who can play across the frontline so we can rotate/rest.
      heimdall
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2091: May 03, 2019 12:16:16 pm
      Dont know that we need a 9 but we need another forward who Klopp will play of injury occurs. Sane and Mahrez sit on Citys bench, we can find someone like that to do it here.

      We are good enough to attract a player who wants to have a crack at a club like ours but might not be automatic first choice.

      It doesn't have to be Origi and Sturridge any more. We're better than that now.

      Sane and Mahrez also start plenty of games, if we buy some more forwards they need to be of equal quality to what we have now, not just more bench warmers like Danny and Divvy. Ideally they'd also be able to offer us some extra options, a big strong forward sikilar to Kane, Drogba, Lukakau (before he became sh*t) would be perfect, but they also have to be able to play well in our normal system, ie good link up play and speed. Although he's not the biggest someone like Zaha would be a pretty good option I think, he seems strong and is certainly quick.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2092: May 03, 2019 12:51:07 pm
      What you want, is to replace a player in a system that has scored us more league goals than last season, got us a record points tally, and 2 champs league semi finals.

      This is just more of the "Firmino isn't a proper striker" bullshit from a few years ago.

      You've heard some random pundit say "they need a proper number 9" and you've posted it.
      Simple as that.

      It's bollocks.

      Remember, those pundits know more than you and have access to information you can dream of ;)

      Firmino isn't a natural striker like your Suarez, Defoe, Fowler, Torres, Giroud, D.Costa etc. He is a natural false 9/second striker/#10.  You know it and just being difficult and stubborn... but then again, you think every player has the same level of techincal ability at the highest level.

      Like I said before, we have played with Salah as the 9 and Firmino the 10 and it has worked. And let me remind you again, wanting an alternative is not about wanting to replace Firmino.

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