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      Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread

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      sore monad
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #575: Jan 08, 2019 03:34:12 pm
      No, he can cover at left back, but we need better cover than Clyne, who fails to provide the attacking aspect of the game that Klopp demands of his full backs

      The point is that he can cover at left back better than Moreno, and that he can cover at right back better than Camacho.

      If you think we need better cover than Clyne - fine, let's bring somebody better in. But you were saying we didn't need him cos we've got Camacho!
      waltonl4
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #576: Jan 08, 2019 03:45:01 pm
      why keep a player who you don't rate long term and who wants to leave.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #577: Jan 08, 2019 04:26:15 pm
      The point is that he can cover at left back better than Moreno, and that he can cover at right back better than Camacho.

      If you think we need better cover than Clyne - fine, let's bring somebody better in. But you were saying we didn't need him cos we've got Camacho!

      We don't need him at right back because of Camacho, he's not good enough to be be left back cover. Still don't need him. That is the point.
      sore monad
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #578: Jan 08, 2019 04:40:57 pm
      We don't need him at right back because of Camacho, he's not good enough to be be left back cover. Still don't need him. That is the point.

      Thinking that Camacho is ready to cover at right back in the PL and CL (which are obviously the only competitions we will be playing in for the rest of the season) is crazy.

      I'm highly confident Jürgen will not be asking Camacho to play in the PL or CL this season. But if we do end up finding ourselves in that position, it'll mean we have left ourselves short of proper cover.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #579: Jan 08, 2019 05:01:07 pm
      Thinking that Camacho is ready to cover at right back in the PL and CL (which are obviously the only competitions we will be playing in for the rest of the season) is crazy.

      I'm highly confident Jürgen will not be asking Camacho to play in the PL or CL this season. But if we do end up finding ourselves in that position, it'll mean we have left ourselves short of proper cover.


      He's replacing Clyne who, at best, was forth choice. Thinking you need cover that deep, that is crazy.
      sore monad
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #580: Jan 08, 2019 06:45:25 pm
      He's replacing Clyne who, at best, was forth choice. Thinking you need cover that deep, that is crazy.

      I think it's quite a bit of a stretch to have Clyne as our 4th choice RB.

      How many times has Milner played at RB this season. Once? Twice at most. How many times has Fab played there? Don't remember him playing there at all. The only player who was ahead of Clyne for our 2nd choice RB this season was Joe Gomez (who Jürgen even preferred ahead of Trent when the latter was having a shaky period early on).

      But Joe should not be used as our backup RB anymore, for 2 reasons: first, his injury record means we need to protect him a bit and not have him bombing up and down the flanks; and second, more fundamentally, cos he and VVD are the best CB pairing in English football. At the start of the season the question of Virgil's best partner was still open ( and a lot of people would have said it was Lovren), so playing Joe at RB at times was reasonable enough. But Joe has shown now that he is Virgil's best partner, and you don't optimise your chances of winning trophies by splitting up your best CB pairing so that one of them can play right back. Somebody else needs to be Trent's back up, and Clyne ( who had played the position for us nearly 100 times, been consistently solid, is still only 27, and, on the basis of his performances against Chelsea and ManU, is still well up to it) would have been the obvious choice ahead of 2 CMs ( and, like I say, Jürgen had not so far been keener to play either of them rather than Clyne at RB this season.)

      So Clyne I think would have ( and certainly should have) been our 2nd choice RB, not our 4th, for the rest of the season.

      We need to replace him with a proper full back (ideally one who can play both flanks.)
      Scotia
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #581: Jan 08, 2019 06:49:52 pm
      I think it's quite a bit of a stretch to have Clyne as our 4th choice RB.

      How many times has Milner played at RB this season. Once? Twice at most. How many times has Fab played there? Don't remember him playing there at all. The only player who was ahead of Clyne for our 2nd choice RB this season was Joe Gomez (who Jürgen even preferred ahead of Trent when the latter was having a shaky period early on).

      But Joe should not be used as our backup RB anymore, for 2 reasons: first, his injury record means we need to protect him a bit and not have him bombing up and down the flanks; and second, more fundamentally, cos he and VVD are the best CB pairing in English football. At the start of the season the question of Virgil's best partner was still open ( and a lot of people would have said it was Lovren), so playing Joe at RB at times was reasonable enough. But Joe has shown now that he is Virgil's best partner, and you don't optimise your chances of winning trophies by splitting up your best CB pairing so that one of them can play right back. Somebody else needs to be Trent's back up, and Clyne ( who had played the position for us nearly 100 times, been consistently solid, is still only 27, and, on the basis of his performances against Chelsea and ManU, is still well up to it) would have been the obvious choice ahead of 2 CMs ( and, like I say, Jürgen had not so far been keener to play either of them rather than Clyne at RB this season.)

      So Clyne I think would have ( and certainly should have) been our 2nd choice RB, not our 4th, for the rest of the season.

      We need to replace him with a proper full back (ideally one who can play both flanks.)

      But he was 4th choice mate whether you think he should be or not.

      Given the choice in every meaningful game Trent, Joe and Milner get picked in front.

      That’s not really open to debate it’s a matter of record.

      Your preference is totally valid but that’s what it is.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #582: Jan 08, 2019 06:51:01 pm
      I think it's quite a bit of a stretch to have Clyne as our 4th choice RB.

      How many times has Milner played at RB this season. Once? Twice at most. How many times has Fab played there? Don't remember him playing there at all. The only player who was ahead of Clyne for our 2nd choice RB this season was Joe Gomez (who Jürgen even preferred ahead of Trent when the latter was having a shaky period early on).

      But Joe should not be used as our backup RB anymore, for 2 reasons: first, his injury record means we need to protect him a bit and not have him bombing up and down the flanks; and second, more fundamentally, cos he and VVD are the best CB pairing in English football. At the start of the season the question of Virgil's best partner was still open ( and a lot of people would have said it was Lovren), so playing Joe at RB at times was reasonable enough. But Joe has shown now that he is Virgil's best partner, and you don't optimise your chances of winning trophies by splitting up your best CB pairing so that one of them can play right back. Somebody else needs to be Trent's back up, and Clyne ( who had played the position for us nearly 100 times, been consistently solid, is still only 27, and, on the basis of his performances against Chelsea and ManU, is still well up to it) would have been the obvious choice ahead of 2 CMs ( and, like I say, Jürgen had not so far been keener to play either of them rather than Clyne at RB this season.)

      So Clyne I think would have ( and certainly should have) been our 2nd choice RB, not our 4th, for the rest of the season.

      We need to replace him with a proper full back (ideally one who can play both flanks.)

      He has played less than 270 league minutes in 20 months, was behind Milner, Gomez and TAA.

      I'll trust Camacho to play 270 minutes in the next 2 seasons.

      Simply didn't fit in with the way Klopp likes his full backs to play.

      Fourth choice, didn't even need to stretch.
      sore monad
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #583: Jan 08, 2019 06:55:59 pm
      But he was 4th choice mate whether you think he should be or not.

      Given the choice in every meaningful game Trent, Joe and Milner get picked in front.

      That’s not really open to debate it’s a matter of record.

      Your preference is totally valid but that’s what it is.

      How many times has Milner played RB this season? Genuine question. I think I remember once. Is it more than twice?
      Scotia
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #584: Jan 08, 2019 07:11:56 pm
      How many times has Milner played RB this season? Genuine question. I think I remember once. Is it more than twice?

      Bournemouth and one other - ironically versus Wolves at Molyneux after Clyne’s performance versus Utd.

      The only one where Clyne and he were both fit and TAA and Gomez weren’t.

      Not sure how it could be any clearer......

      *Edit: I wanted Clyne to play that night after the Utd game.
      « Last Edit: Jan 08, 2019 07:25:53 pm by Scotia »
      sore monad
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #585: Jan 08, 2019 07:50:06 pm
      Bournemouth and one other - ironically versus Wolves at Molyneux after Clyne’s performance versus Utd.

      The only one where Clyne and he were both fit and TAA and Gomez weren’t.

      Not sure how it could be any clearer......

      *Edit: I wanted Clyne to play that night after the Utd game.

      Well it would be at least a bit clearer if Milner had  played more times than Clyne, for starters. They've both played RB twice this season. How does that make it a matter of record that Milner was ahead of Clyne at RB?
      Scotia
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #586: Jan 08, 2019 07:56:50 pm
      Well it would be at least a bit clearer if Milner had  played more times than Clyne, for starters. They've both played RB twice this season. How does that make it a matter of record that Milner was ahead of Clyne at RB?


      Because it is.

      Clyne played in the Carabou and when there were literally no other options.

      After a decent performance against Utd he wasn’t selected and Milner was.

      He WAS JK’s 4th choice fella. You don’t have to agree that he should have been but I honestly don’t get how you argue he wasn’t.

      If the other 2 were injured he only plays if we’re short in midfield at the same time.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #587: Jan 08, 2019 08:03:29 pm
      Well it would be at least a bit clearer if Milner had  played more times than Clyne, for starters. They've both played RB twice this season. How does that make it a matter of record that Milner was ahead of Clyne at RB?

      He has left because he wasn’t going to play for us - simple as that , what more is there
      sore monad
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #588: Jan 08, 2019 08:46:48 pm
      Because it is.

      Clyne played in the Carabou and when there were literally no other options.

      After a decent performance against Utd he wasn’t selected and Milner was.

      He WAS JK’s 4th choice fella. You don’t have to agree that he should have been but I honestly don’t get how you argue he wasn’t.

      If the other 2 were injured he only plays if we’re short in midfield at the same time.

      Doesn't seem conclusive to me, but maybe you're right.

      Jürgen was apparently happy enough to lose Clyne for one reason or another at any rate. I assume he has good reasons, but I think it's an unnecessary risk if we don't replace him. Milner is basically cover for both full back positions + CM now. ( I would certainly pick Milner ahead of Moreno at LB.) Fab hasn't played RB for us ( plus looks potentially our best DM, so we want him playing there, not RB). And Gomez, as I said, should stay at CB.

      We shouldn't be relying on playing square pegs in round holes if we get a couple of injuries, especially not with the league title at stake. Clyne was a proper out and out full back, and right now we've only got 2 of those left - cos I don't count Moreno, and Camacho is too inexperienced. I don't like us weakening the squad and then keeping our fingers crossed when we've got a PL and CL to play for. Same goes for Origi, if he goes. He's only had 2 or 3 games too, but we might need him at some point (and he's already been worth 2 points when we did need him).

      I was pretty confident that Jürgen would replace Clyne, but you're making me think he might not.

      Mind you, I had the same doubts about whether he'd bring in a new goalie in the summer. I was pretty sure he would, but a lot of the talk on here was that we didn't need one, and it made me wonder. Glad to say Jürgen didn't let me down.

      Not signing a new FB would be nothing like as mad a risk as not signing a new goalie in the summer. It's a relatively small risk, but it's definitely not a negligible one and, with us having our best chance in years of the title, we shouldn't take it. Sign a full back Jürgen!
      bmck
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #589: Jan 08, 2019 09:07:39 pm
      He has played less than 270 league minutes in 20 months, was behind Milner, Gomez and TAA.

      Personally if TAA was out I'd play Clyne. Not Milner. Deffo not Fab who can be much better elsewhere. Or Comacho who's just a kid - we're challenging for a title here. Not as good as TAA going forward, but he's probably as good defending.

      He hasn't played much - but think main reason he's off is Jürgen has gone cold on him and is not in his plans, full stop. Anyway, we're top of the table by 4 points, the man knows what he's doing.


      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #590: Jan 08, 2019 09:15:49 pm
      For me, I would have probably even have Clyne ahead of TAA for the big games, but for whatever reason, Klopp didn't rate him and I can understand him wanting to leave to play week in, week out. I think he will prove himself once again to be a high quality PL full back at Bournemouth.
      Del Boca Vista
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #591: Jan 15, 2019 04:44:21 am
      Absence and a half decent performance against the Mancs has certainly clouded people's memories.

      Was solid defending, mostly, awful going forward and, which rarely gets mentioned, his back post defending was comical.





      harks back to a problem a lot of us got into, not being able to tell a good player from a bad player, because of the sh*t our club went through. coming off Glen Johnson and Jon Flanagan, Clyne was a defensive powerhouse. that's the only comparison some people have to make. it's easy to see our midfielders are better, our attackers are better, but people aren't as savvy with defenders. this problem still exists for many, they think they know better than Jürgen Klopp because they thought they knew better than Roy and BR. i can't believe people still think Clyne should be number 1 RB, you've got to genuinely think you're smarter than Klopp to stand by sh*t like that.
      Tadders
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #592: Jan 15, 2019 04:06:36 pm
      Trent out for a month now. Let's hope Milner can play right back.

      at this rate half of our back 4 will be Midfielders, albeit good defenders.

      If we get an injury to VVD i will cry
      Scotia
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #593: Jan 15, 2019 05:07:03 pm
      Trent out for a month now. Let's hope Milner can play right back.

      at this rate half of our back 4 will be Midfielders, albeit good defenders.

      If we get an injury to VVD i will cry

      We know Milly can play RB - he’s done it throughout his career when required.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #594: Jan 15, 2019 05:24:16 pm
      Seems to be an awful lot of concern about loaning out our at best, 4th choice RB that’s played about 2/3 games times in 2 years. 4th choice meaning we have 3 other options to play ahead of him, probably more now Fab has been looking good in defence and can play RB. Granted it’s a concern losing a first choice player through injury, but surely people should be more concerned about a lack of cover on the left side? If Robbo gets injured then that’s the time to be concerned, and it won’t be because we loaned out Clyne, it will be because we only have one other player who is a natural left sided player, but happens to be utter sh*te.
      Scotia
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #595: Jan 15, 2019 05:29:14 pm
      Plays for Bournemouth - wailing and gnashing of teeth over that is utterly futile.

      It’ll either prove to be an issue - but only if we have several other injuries - or it won’t.

      Time will tell.
      srslfc
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #596: Jan 15, 2019 05:47:36 pm
      Plays for Bournemouth - wailing and gnashing of teeth over that is utterly futile.

      It’ll either prove to be an issue - but only if we have several other injuries - or it won’t.

      Time will tell.


      Indeed.

      Milner will play RB until Trent gets back.

      Gill95
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #597: Jan 16, 2019 07:22:09 am
      Indeed.

      Milner will play RB until Trent gets back.

      There is also a 10 day break during the FA cup round, which will take out half of those 4 weeks. Bunch of home games, Milner can do the job.
      RedKop114
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #598: Jan 16, 2019 09:09:06 am
      I think that Klopp made a big mistake sending Clyne on loan. I know that we can play Milner there, but he is not a proper replacement for Alexander-Arnold. Hope this won't effect our performances on the pitch.
      thanks2shanks
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      Re: Nathaniel Clyne Player Thread (on loan at Bournemouth)
      Reply #599: Jan 16, 2019 01:06:17 pm
      I remember players being recalled from loan at another club if injuries required.

      Is this provision still in place? If so, I'd like to see Clyne brought back.

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