2015-2016 Formation

Maybe Im a wierdo, but Im not that fussed about defence being much better than last seaon, it was much better than season before. It was lack of goals that cost us last season.

Defensive bonus points....

1) Mings is a lot better than he was during his 1st season and a 1/2, being dropped squared him up
2) Johnson is gone
3) clyne looks solid as F~@k
4) Sahko & Lovren are another season into thier LFC careers they must be settled now.
5) Sktrel buzzing after new contract
6) Moreno is also season into his career at LFC, will be better too.

Add to that promising lads like Gomez & Llori and the legend of kolo staying around, Im quite comfertable with defence.

#thinkpositive

I agree mate.  It seems a lot of people see our defense as the main reason for our failures over the last few years and that it'll be the undoing of Brendan if he doesn't sort it out but it's not like it's massive numbers away like our attack was last season.

I've just crunched some numbers for the last 5 seasons and the average goals against for the teams finishing 1-4 is 37 and our average is 45 so we're talking on average just 8 goals less over the course of 38 games.  That's a measly .2 goals a game we need to improve by.

I'm not saying we don't need to improve but the obsession some people have with our defense you'd think we were leaking dozens more than our rivals and it's an unsurmountable feat to get the right balance.

I agree mate.  It seems a lot of people see our defense as the main reason for our failures over the last few years and that it'll be the undoing of Brendan if he doesn't sort it out but it's not like it's massive numbers away like our attack was last season.

I've just crunched some numbers for the last 5 seasons and the average goals against for the teams finishing 1-4 is 37 and our average is 45 so we're talking on average just 8 goals less over the course of 38 games.  That's a measly .2 goals a game we need to improve by.

I'm not saying we don't need to improve but the obsession some people have with our defense you'd think we were leaking dozens more than our rivals and it's an unsurmountable feat to get the right balance.

Its something I've said a few times on here Debs and I used Arsenal as the example.

Can't remember the exact numbers just now but at points last season they had conceded not much more than us but scored around 20 more and were second. Saints conceded a fair few less than is but hadn't scored many and are below us.

Add more goals and we will finish higher is the thinking this summer I'd imagine.

I'm onboard with that.

I hope your right but I think the philosophy will not change, outscore the opposition 

Maybe SOD can make Rodgers see his defensive blind spot.

I have a feeling it's more that SOD will make the defenders better at what Rodgers wants them to do....be "brave" and play the ball out.

But of course now, if we are having trouble/getting pressed, we can always hoof it up to Benteke.

Maybe Im a wierdo, but Im not that fussed about defence being much better than last seaon, it was much better than season before. It was lack of goals that cost us last season.

Defensive bonus points....

1) Mings is a lot better than he was during his 1st season and a 1/2, being dropped squared him up
2) Johnson is gone
3) clyne looks solid as F~@k
4) Sahko & Lovren are another season into thier LFC careers they must be settled now.
5) Sktrel buzzing after new contract
6) Moreno is also season into his career at LFC, will be better too.

Add to that promising lads like Gomez & Llori and the legend of kolo staying around, Im quite comfertable with defence.

#thinkpositive

Great post and agree with you
I am likewise far more positive than I was a few months into last season

Its something I've said a few times on here Debs and I used Arsenal as the example.

Can't remember the exact numbers just now but at points last season they had conceded not much more than us but scored around 20 more and were second. Saints conceded a fair few less than is but hadn't scored many and are below us.

Add more goals and we will finish higher is the thinking this summer I'd imagine.

I'm onboard with that.

Yep our goals against figures were better last season than in our title challenge season, the big difference was 50 less goals scored.  I'm not saying we need to score over 100 goals to have a chance but nor do we need to get our goals against down to single figures.

Like I posted before, it's a measly .2 goals per game less or 1 goal every 4 or 5 games less, we don't need to be having clean sheets every week although that does help.

1) Mings is a lot better than he was during his 1st season and a 1/2, being dropped squared him up

Think this is over-stated. He's improved but he is still Mignolet and with that comes the hesitation in the box and awful distribution, his shot stopping is also over sold in my opinion. We could have made an effort to get a better starting keeper and drop Migs to back-up and we would have improved the team tremendously. For instance imagine signing Cech and what a difference that would have made to our side.

2) Johnson is gone

Definitely a positive, think even his attitude on the pitch is something that dragged others down by the end. Clyne may not be the best RB in the league but in terms of improvement over Johnson we'll feel the difference without question.

4) Sahko & Lovren are another season into thier LFC careers they must be settled now.

Massive assumption in terms of Lovren but I'd like to think Sakho is due a bit of better luck in terms of injuries so hopefully he'll earn and keep his place in the team much more as I believe he is vital for our chances this year.

5) Sktrel buzzing after new contract

Improved contracts often have a negative effect, perhaps these are reported more so they seem more common but I certainly wouldn't assume it will be a positive until we've seen him play a few times.

6) Moreno is also season into his career at LFC, will be better too.

Hoping we have a new starting LB because although Moreno had the mitigating circumstances of both Stevie in the DLPM role and Lovren inside him he still looked a bit like a fish out of water far too often.

Add to that promising lads like Gomez & Llori and the legend of kolo staying around, Im quite comfertable with defence.

Agree Gomez and Ilori look like cracking potential and I believe Kolo gets a lot of stick that's a little harsh, but comfortable with our defence, I'm far from that at the moment but there's definitely a chance things could improve, so let's hope for that.

Bogdan

Gomez    Ilori    Lovren    Enrique

Lucas

Allen        Can

Lallana

Ings   Origi

Just an example of what I think could be used in the Europa League as Brendan alluded to in his recent interview about using a different side for the early EL games.

Bogdan

Gomez    Ilori    Lovren    Enrique

Lucas

Allen        Can

Lallana

Ings   Origi

Just an example of what I think could be used in the Europa League as Brendan alluded to in his recent ingterview about usuing a different side for the early EL games.

With the exception of Lovren

With the exception of Lovren

He has to play somewhere mate and could be the making of him.

Just looking again and I realise I have forgotton Markovic as well.

He has to play somewhere mate and could be the making of him.

Just looking again and I realise I have forgotton Markovic as well.

Reckon Marko would be better at CB than Lovren

I agree mate.  It seems a lot of people see our defense as the main reason for our failures over the last few years and that it'll be the undoing of Brendan if he doesn't sort it out but it's not like it's massive numbers away like our attack was last season.

I've just crunched some numbers for the last 5 seasons and the average goals against for the teams finishing 1-4 is 37 and our average is 45 so we're talking on average just 8 goals less over the course of 38 games.  That's a measly .2 goals a game we need to improve by.

I'm not saying we don't need to improve but the obsession some people have with our defense you'd think we were leaking dozens more than our rivals and it's an unsurmountable feat to get the right balance.

Our defense was awful season before but we were smashing teams for 3 and 4 goals regularly so it did not matter, If it was a rafae team, he would set up not to concede and then counter, so goals against mattered more, we now setup to score and attack more, which will always leave us exposed at the back.

Im confident we now have the legs in the team to cope with being exposed after an attack fizzles out.

Bogdan

Gomez    Ilori    Lovren    Enrique

Lucas

Allen        Can

Lallana

Ings   Origi

Just an example of what I think could be used in the Europa League as Brendan alluded to in his recent interview about using a different side for the early EL games.

Id probably expect Kolo in there, but decent team all the same.

Think this is over-stated. He's improved but he is still Mignolet and with that comes the hesitation in the box and awful distribution, his shot stopping is also over sold in my opinion. We could have made an effort to get a better starting keeper and drop Migs to back-up and we would have improved the team tremendously. For instance imagine signing Cech and what a difference that would have made to our side.

Definitely a positive, think even his attitude on the pitch is something that dragged others down by the end. Clyne may not be the best RB in the league but in terms of improvement over Johnson we'll feel the difference without question.

Massive assumption in terms of Lovren but I'd like to think Sakho is due a bit of better luck in terms of injuries so hopefully he'll earn and keep his place in the team much more as I believe he is vital for our chances this year.

Improved contracts often have a negative effect, perhaps these are reported more so they seem more common but I certainly wouldn't assume it will be a positive until we've seen him play a few times.

Hoping we have a new starting LB because although Moreno had the mitigating circumstances of both Stevie in the DLPM role and Lovren inside him he still looked a bit like a fish out of water far too often.

Agree Gomez and Ilori look like cracking potential and I believe Kolo gets a lot of stick that's a little harsh, but comfortable with our defence, I'm far from that at the moment but there's definitely a chance things could improve, so let's hope for that.

cheers. Good points. Not got time to reply to all at, probably wont be on much rest of week, busy few days at work bfre 2 weeks off.

Bogdan

Gomez    Ilori    Lovren    Enrique

Lucas

Allen        Can

Lallana

Ings   Origi

Just an example of what I think could be used in the Europa League as Brendan alluded to in his recent interview about using a different side for the early EL games.

That side would get twatted all day long
This is actually what worries me about our squad. We don't have the luxury of chopping and changing , because we simply do not have any strength in depth.
The first team are inconsistent enough on their own without the hindrance of making 3 to 4 changes. We struggle to put 3 to 4 passes together.

Rodgers is gona have to play his strongest 11 right from the off. MAYBE  if we gave ourself some room to breathe, then 1 or 2 changes , but anymore tinkering and it just implodes.

That side would get twatted all day long

You did read that this was a side to play the sides we'll face in early EL games and League Cup and not the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal?

I agree mate.  It seems a lot of people see our defense as the main reason for our failures over the last few years and that it'll be the undoing of Brendan if he doesn't sort it out but it's not like it's massive numbers away like our attack was last season.

I've just crunched some numbers for the last 5 seasons and the average goals against for the teams finishing 1-4 is 37 and our average is 45 so we're talking on average just 8 goals less over the course of 38 games.  That's a measly .2 goals a game we need to improve by.

I'm not saying we don't need to improve but the obsession some people have with our defense you'd think we were leaking dozens more than our rivals and it's an unsurmountable feat to get the right balance.

Interesting stats but we have not won anything in the last 3 years playing the way we do which includes defending the way we do.

We've lost in big games because we can't keep a clean sheet. We get knocked out of competitions because we concede too many.
Those minute differences actually add up to more than the individual .2 per game.

Those 8 goals on average are probably the difference between 3-4 wins and gaining Top 4.

Of course we need to score goals but I wouldn't dismiss the defence as a real issue based on a average 8 goals.

That side would get twatted all day long
This is actually what worries me about our squad. We don't have the luxury of chopping and changing , because we simply do not have any strength in depth.
The first team are inconsistent enough on their own without the hindrance of making 3 to 4 changes. We struggle to put 3 to 4 passes together.

Rodgers is gona have to play his strongest 11 right from the off. MAYBE  if we gave ourself some room to breathe, then 1 or 2 changes , but anymore tinkering and it just implodes.

How about giving the team a chance before writing them off?

If we had made no additions to last season's squad, you might be right, be we have added about 5 players who will be knocking hard on the door of the first team, which in turn creates better depth of quality.

It's entirely unfair IMO to declare a team inconsistent when they have yet to play a match together!

I'm all for opinions, but the negativity your post exudes is completely over the top.

You did read that this was a side to play the sides we'll face in early EL games and League Cup and not the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal?

Yes i did. Or maybe we should save the big guns for the likes of Ludograts or Basle.? We don't have the squad to play anything other than our strongest team in any competition. This is why we have struggled in all cup competitions under Rodgers.

With Rodgers inexperience in Europe any weaker side picked is not likely to progress very far.
Little face does make a valid point.

How about giving the team a chance before writing them off?

If we had made no additions to last season's squad, you might be right, be we have added about 5 players who will be knocking hard on the door of the first team, which in turn creates better depth of quality.

It's entirely unfair IMO to declare a team inconsistent when they have yet to play a match together!

I'm all for opinions, but the negativity your post exudes is completely over the top.

Seriously? Just look at that team again and tell me where its strengths lie. I'm going on past experience of how utterly inept our performances are in the cup competitions under Rodgers. The team always stutters and bores us rigid, before capitulating.
Like i said , the first team find it hard enough finding each other with a pass , nevermind the back up. Who would think to put Origi and Ings up front together. It 's just hit and hope.
This team needs stability , play a system, stick with it .

Personally I'd like to see us line up like this at the start of the season:

Mignolet
Clyne Lovren Sakho Moreno
Can Milner
Firmino Hendo Coutinho
Benteke

I know people probably completely disagree with it. But I actually have the willigness to give Lovren and Moreno another chance. Mainly because I've never been a fan of the Sakho-Skrtel pairing, but also because I remember Lovren at Southampton and know that his poor play at this point is all mental - which in my opinion is something that can be overcome with confidence and support. They're Liverpool players, in red, playing at Anfield. They deserve our support. Our CBs were seriously hampered last year IMO by the lack of any real defensive support in the midfield. And if it can't work and they all end up being sh*tty again then I'm completely wrong, but I think they're being written off very quickly - I understand why, but I'm not ready to do that just yet.

Think Can offers more stability than anyone else (except maybe Lucas) in midfield from a defensive standpoint and can be a mobile guardian for the back four while Milner does the box-to-box work. I like Milner, think he'll do a job for us, but I personally am not comfortable with the Milner-Hendo duo as the only DM/CMs and I don't think we'll see any significant improvement in our defense with them there, only slightly due to the fact that they're both more mobile than Stevie was.

Therefore, I'd like to see Hendo up the field centrally, rotating with Milner constantly between b2b and attacking then Couts and Firmino giving width and fluid creativity doing whatever they want on the ball as Moreno and Clyne bomb down the wings as well because they can because the CBs will be supported by a capable DM.

Finally Big Ben up top relishing the opportunity to get fed by the crossing of our fullbacks, the creativity of Couts and Firmino, and  the typical offensive support of Hendo and Milner operating just behind him.



However, snapping back to reality, I think this is how we'll actually be lining up more realistically:

Mignolet
Clyne Skrtel Sakho Moreno
Milner Hendo
Firmino Lallana Coutinho
Benteke

Which I'm ok with. Milner and Hendo are good CMs, still don't think there's enough of a defensive presence there. Skrtel and Sakho I don't like together because I don't think either offer the leadership or brain and they're both liabilities in certain areas, but I understand because judging by last season they were the top two. Also think Lallana could end up having a shining season for us if he can find his place in the system this year.

The one thing that I want to see from Brendan is consistency. To give Marko, Lallana, Ibe, Balo a random game then throw them on the bench for the next 5 and mix in completely new sets of players I don't think any of them will ever be able to get any kind of decent form. Pick a set of players and give them consistent opportunities. Also completely destroys the staring XI's ability to gel and know what each other are thinking before it even happens. Similar to what Suarez and Studge had in our prolific season.

Interesting stats but we have not won anything in the last 3 years playing the way we do which includes defending the way we do.

We've lost in big games because we can't keep a clean sheet. We get knocked out of competitions because we concede too many.
Those minute differences actually add up to more than the individual .2 per game.

Those 8 goals on average are probably the difference between 3-4 wins and gaining Top 4.

Of course we need to score goals but I wouldn't dismiss the defence as a real issue based on a average 8 goals.

remember we conceded 9 in the last 2 games of last season that actually made the defensive stats look far worse for last season.

ffs. hate reminding myself about those 2 games. :-(

Our defense was awful season before but we were smashing teams for 3 and 4 goals regularly so it did not matter, If it was a rafae team, he would set up not to concede and then counter, so goals against mattered more, we now setup to score and attack more, which will always leave us exposed at the back.

Im confident we now have the legs in the team to cope with being exposed after an attack fizzles out.

Agreed mate.  Yesterdays training session had us lined up with a 2 in midfield (Hendo and Milner) with 3 AM's behind Benteke, so looks like we'll be going into the Stoke game 4231 which I'm guessing will be

Migs

Clyne
Skrtel
Sakho/Lovren
Moreno

Hendo
Milner

Firmino
Cou
Lallana

Benteke