Malaysia XI 1:1 Liverpool Pre, in game & post match discussion.

Skrtel did F**k up and Lovren tried to be the hero and if he didn't make try cover his partner he would have got called out on it.

So Lovren had the right intentions but once deciding to intervene he did nowhere near enough. Once stepping off he should have been able to have made a good enough tackle to win the ball.

However if it was Sakho and Skrtel in the pairing earlier today I feel Sakho would have lunged in and saved the day but that's just me.

Your the only one on here convinced the goal is Skrtels fault mate.

Most have agreed that both CB's are at fault but Lovrens defending was more calamitous.

Maybe I have not passed coaching qualifications like yourself but still play twice a week so I know a little bit about defending. 

But you don't need a coaching qualification mate, just a pair of eyes. "Line of sight" is a crucial and often under-estimated aspect of football. I don't know what position you play in, but if for example you play up front then do yourself a favour and think about "line of sight" before you start the new season (seriously I'm not taking the p!ss, have a think about it). The defender wants to be able to stand behind you, look over your shoulder and see both you and the ball at the same time, that's "line of sight". Allow him the privilege MOST of the time but when the ball comes into midfield track out of his line of sight, that is to say you backpeddle five yards or drop in on the diagonal so he can't see you and the ball at the same time. See how it works for you and you become more difficult to mark, instantly. Also when you are watching professional football and good strikers you'll see them doing it all of the time. If you are a midfielder you can think about line of sight and make a similar run to the one the fella who scored a goal scored. Anticipate where the ball is going to go and run into that space, don't wait till it gets there and run after it, that's what dogs do. I'm going to cross my fingers and assume you aren't a defender, otherwise the Skrtel ball-watching thing you would have seen the first time you saw the clip. I'm sure you're not, I just can't comprehend it.

As for the fact that "I'm the only one" convinced the goal is Skrtels fault, I think you're right. The fact that I think you are right and that despite it being such a glaringly obvious example of ball-watching by Skrtel (and that the clip is continuously playing on this page, people can literally watch it over and over) is frightening really, thought provoking (and not in a good way).   

Your the only one on here convinced the goal is Skrtels fault mate.

Most have agreed that both CB's are at fault but Lovrens defending was more calamitous.

Maybe I have not passed coaching qualifications like yourself but still play twice a week so I know a little bit about defending. 

4 wins and a draw that's league winning form its on 

He was talking sh*t then and he's talking sh*t now HScRed1.

Totally agenda driven tripe that has no basis whatsoever other than attempting to wind others up, extremely boring and predictable.

It's like the pathetic statement that if you haven't played the game you can't understand it, I wonder what that says about all our disabled followers, all fans without the ability to comprehend the game, I don't think so personally and wouldn't be so arrogant or pathetic to make such a claim.

I can play chess relatively well, I wouldn't claim to understand a Grandmaster's moves without another Grandmaster explaining them, participation does not denote knowledge.

I don't know how much praise you can give Skrtel when he's been a regular and consistent feature of a defence that has become infamous for it's leakiness. I don't know the exact number of how many goals we've conceded these last two years but it's obviously quite a bit. Rather than being a part of the cure, he is in my opinion a part of the disease.

I tend to agree with this. Skrtel isn't a leader and his hardman reputation is at worst fake and at best exaggerated. I haven't seen anything the past few years that shows he can organize the three players with him. He looks his best the deeper he is, but deep defending isn't something we've tried to do the past 3 years.

He was talking sh*t then and he's talking sh*t now HScRed1.

Totally agenda driven tripe that has no basis whatsoever other than attempting to wind others up, extremely boring and predictable.

It's like the pathetic statement that if you haven't played the game you can't understand it, I wonder what that says about all our disabled followers, all fans without the ability to comprehend the game, I don't think so personally and wouldn't be so arrogant or pathetic to make such a claim.

I can play chess relatively well, I wouldn't claim to understand a Grandmaster's moves without another Grandmaster explaining them, participation does not denote knowledge.

Arrigo Sacchi perfected that argument when he said 'You don't need to have been born a horse to become a jockey'

Arrigo Sacchi perfected that argument when he said 'You don't need to have been born a horse to become a jockey'

Haha yep it's a fair one. It's interesting to see Luke's posts from time to time, just convinces me even further that I'm far better off not seeing them on a regular basis. His line about "I wonder what that says about our disabled followers" is a surreal one even by his standards. I mean, wow.

Comedy gold the description some have of that goal, trying to blame it on Skrtel is beyond bias it's delusion.

Nobody was arriving at top lick.
Lovren's man touches the ball once and in that one touch gains 4 yards of space on Lovren. So much space that Skrtel then becomes the nearest player to 'Lovren's man'.
Lovren then is 4 yards in front of the on running attacker who manages to take 3 touches of the ball and end up 2 yards ahead of him and had the opportunity to shoot with either foot as he was well in front of Lovren by the time the shot came in.

The best excuse would be he's rusty and it's pre-season, trying to apportion the blame on to Skrtel is pathetic, plain and simple.

I guess the goal for me is more of a "who cares".

Sometimes people get a little bit too worked up because they have an agenda one way or the other. I think it's easy to see that in this thread.

Personally, like I said before, I don't really care because Lovren isn't even my third choice CB and I highly doubt he gets much game time. But if you want to pick on him, pick on him for the 4 chances he failed to convert. (and maybe praise him for saving Skrtel's bacon in the second half on that breakaway)

I can honestly say i am not just trying to bring everyone down , .just before the season gets underway. I don't claim to know everything.
I just don't see any strategy to our play or how the players we have signed are going to operate.

The system in the warm up games should be the same. No one seems to know what formation we are going to play , and it should be  clear to us as to which players will start the season , at least 9 of the starting 11.
This to me is not careful planning, more like " lets see what happens".
Of course, this is just the way i see it.

It seems like maybe you have different expectations of the pre-season tour than some of us. I understand it to be building fitness, and marketing the team to parts of the world where they want our support to grow. We literally have 3-4 starters (Benteke, Can, Firmino, Coutinho) sitting at home in Liverpool right now and probably a few squad players as well. How you would think that we should in any way be able to get players used to playing in a system together when we don't even have a quarter of the starting 11 available?

My advice would be to just relax, enjoy getting to see some rudimentary football and don't give yourself an ulcer worrying about season results that haven't happened yet.

I don't know how much praise you can give Skrtel when he's been a regular and consistent feature of a defence that has become infamous for it's leakiness. I don't know the exact number of how many goals we've conceded these last two years but it's obviously quite a bit. Rather than being a part of the cure, he is in my opinion a part of the disease.

It's a fair point and on that basis you could argue praising any of our defenders over the past few years is the wrong thing to do given the issues we have had. Posters used to kiss Agger's ass all the time when it wasn't warranted. I think Skrtel has been much better the past couple of years after a very poor season when Brendan first came in. There is absolutely no doubt he is at his best when defending a little deeper, he was (along with Kompany) the best CB in the league IMHO a few seasons back. He would (for example) be superb if he played at Chelsea with their organisation and attention to team shape and the patient way they build attacks. He doesn't get ANY of that protection at LFC since Brendan came in, ditto the other centre-halves (and Lucas as well) and that should be accounted for whenever we appraise our defenders. The CBS in particular are often left on an island (if you like) with one or both fullbacks buggered off high up the pitch and only Lucas ahead of them. So many times we have lost the ball high up the pitch, got turned around, flooded with midfield runners and those three having to deal with it is untrue. We also get found out at goal kicks, Brendan spreads them out, makes the pitch as deep, long and wide as he can, then Mignolet hits that shi....ty floated kick to one of the full backs, we lose and ditto same again, our middies are all wrong side of the ball and it's the three buggers in the triangle (2 CBS and the DM) dealing with midfield runners and a full on cavalry charge coming their way. To use Mourinho's side as a comparison, when they have the ball they still give thought and attention to the shape of the team IN CASE they lose the ball ie. if they do lose it they are still in position to defend, we don't! We often lost it and we're in big trouble, there is too much space to either play into or run into. Another issue is our full-backs, I don't believe they are coached to get tight and prevent crosses, we allow FAR too many to come in and that also exposes our CBs.

It's not easy being a centre-half in a Brendan Side.

On the subject of Lovren, I think he has struggled partly because of the reasons highlighted above and partly because he lacks quickness on the turn and top end pace. You need it in this side and he doesn't have it.

Not getting into the Lovren v Skrtel debate regarding the goal but that game was just more proof that they shouldn't be on the pitch at the same time this coming season. Absolutely no communication between them. I'm hoping Brendan sees sense and has Sakho as his number one centre back and I also hope now that it's Sakho's third season at the club he's a bit more settled and happy to boss whoever he's playing with around a bit because both Skrtel and Lovren are shocking when they actually have to think about what they're doing.

Not too bothered about the attack right now. We've got our best player and also our two big attacking signings to come in.

Not getting into the Lovren v Skrtel debate regarding the goal but that game was just more proof that they shouldn't be on the pitch at the same time this coming season. Absolutely no communication between them. I'm hoping Brendan sees sense and has Sakho as his number one centre back and I also hope now that it's Sakho's third season at the club he's a bit more settled and happy to boss whoever he's playing with around a bit because both Skrtel and Lovren are shocking when they actually have to think about what they're doing.

Not too bothered about the attack right now. We've got our best player and also our two big attacking signings to come in.

I would hope so too mate, Sakho was skipper at PSG before he came to LFC, he made big improvements last season and he now speaks the lingo. I'm hoping to see a more vocal player willing to take on a leadership role this season.

I've stood in Micks corner on Lovren previously and will continue to do so purely because the other guy he is directly competing with has never convinced me. In fact last time I watched him live in Brisbane he made two consecutive horrendous errors you would struggle to see displayed at under 9 level.

I'm drawing to the conclusion fuk them both of and either buy a new centre half or start developing young Gomez.

Not getting into the Lovren v Skrtel debate regarding the goal but that game was just more proof that they shouldn't be on the pitch at the same time this coming season. Absolutely no communication between them. I'm hoping Brendan sees sense and has Sakho as his number one centre back and I also hope now that it's Sakho's third season at the club he's a bit more settled and happy to boss whoever he's playing with around a bit because both Skrtel and Lovren are shocking when they actually have to think about what they're doing.

Not too bothered about the attack right now. We've got our best player and also our two big attacking signings to come in.

Nothing personal chats but imho we would be up sh*t creek with no paddle if we allowed big mama to do any thinking for us at the back.

Nothing personal chats but imho we would be up sh*t creek with no paddle if we allowed big mama to do any thinking for us at the back.

Sakho is quality. You're drunk, go home

Nothing personal chats but imho we would be up sh*t creek with no paddle if we allowed big mama to do any thinking for us at the back.

Holy sh*t..........

We look so much worse with Lovren. Skrtel and Sakho are first choice without a shadow of doubt IMO

So new season same sh*t Lovren.

Take your seat at the bench please thank you.

Lovren just oozes no confidence whatsoever. It's actually scary. I don't think he'll ever recover.

On the point of the goal conceded I can see where Mick is coming from re Skertel too.

What it boils down to is how the pair of CB's work as a unit, and quite clearly the pair of them were found wanting for that goal. Also, thought the keeper was taken by surprise with the finish, and perhaps should have done better.

However, I think Lovren has only shown merits of a poor defender who's mentally not up to the task. Not only that but he has been given a few opportunities to put the ball in the back of the net from corners in Australia and Malaysia and failed. Have to be honest, he hasn't impressed me.

That's twice Rodgers has picked him in a pre-season game, and I hope Sahko comes back in but I have a worrying feeling that Rodgers could persist with Lovren. Who on merit doesn't deserve his place ahead of Sahko.

What's more is, who ever is our CB, they're going to need a shield in front of them - Lucas or perhaps Can to shore that slightly soft center up.

Lovren just oozes no confidence whatsoever

Oozes no ability either. Like a deer caught in the headlights.

Oozes no ability either. Like a deer caught in the headlights.

Hasn't the f***in head for it.

Great when the real pressure is off.
At this level he's a F***ing menace.

On the point of the goal conceded I can see where Mick is coming from re Skertel too.

What it boils down to is how the pair of CB's work as a unit, and quite clearly the pair of them were found wanting for that goal. Also, thought the keeper was taken by surprise with the finish, and perhaps should have done better.

However, I think Lovren has only shown merits of a poor defender who's mentally not up to the task. Not only that but he has been given a few opportunities to put the ball in the back of the net from corners in Australia and Malaysia and failed. Have to be honest, he hasn't impressed me.

That's twice Rodgers has picked him in a pre-season game, and I hope Sahko comes back in but I have a worrying feeling that Rodgers could persist with Lovren. Who on merit doesn't deserve his place ahead of Sahko.

What's more is, who ever is our CB, they're going to need a shield in front of them - Lucas or perhaps Can to shore that slightly soft center up.

Good post Beerbelly.

I think the easiest way to decide who is at fault is to ask the question what would have happened if Lovren had just stuck with the player he was marking and left Skrtel to deal with the runner. It would still have been a goal, Skrtel would have been left for dead and there would be no question over who's fault it was.

It seems like maybe you have different expectations of the pre-season tour than some of us. I understand it to be building fitness, and marketing the team to parts of the world where they want our support to grow. We literally have 3-4 starters (Benteke, Can, Firmino, Coutinho) sitting at home in Liverpool right now and probably a few squad players as well. How you would think that we should in any way be able to get players used to playing in a system together when we don't even have a quarter of the starting 11 available?

My advice would be to just relax, enjoy getting to see some rudimentary football and don't give yourself an ulcer worrying about season results that haven't happened yet.

FL Red it is not just the squad that should be playing to a system but the reserves should be playing to the same system. That is assuming that the system is successful, you should look on your google again and see how when a player was injured the reserve stepped up and slotted into the system.
Regarding  Kopite  Luke having an agenda I would suggest his knowledge of L.F.C. is far greater than yours.
Back to the match I thought Ibes goal was a cracker and well taken.