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      LFC Reds Poll

      Q. Man of the Match?

      Simon Mignolet
      0 (0%)
      Nathaniel Clyne
      8 (5%)
      Dejan Lovren
      12 (7.5%)
      Martin Skrtel
      9 (5.7%)
      Joe Gomez
      11 (6.9%)
      Jordan Henderson
      0 (0%)
      James Milner
      8 (5%)
      Adam Lallana
      0 (0%)
      Jordon Ibe
      5 (3.1%)
      Phil Coutinho
      98 (61.6%)
      Christian Benteke
      1 (0.6%)
      Emre Can
      5 (3.1%)
      Roberto Firmino
      2 (1.3%)

      Total Members Voted: 156

      Voting closed: Aug 12, 2015 05:57:52 pm

      Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate

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      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #759: Aug 12, 2015 09:28:52 am
      What f**king game were you watching?
      It sure as f**k doesn't sound like the one I saw.

      I think even his biggest admirers would confess he was isolated - many saying he had no service.

      He certainly wasn't any sort of threat for us in 90minutes put it that way.

      No idea what game you were watching in all honesty.

      RedPuppy
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      Re: Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #760: Aug 12, 2015 09:58:31 am
      I think even his biggest admirers would confess he was isolated - many saying he had no service.

      He certainly wasn't any sort of threat for us in 90minutes put it that way.

      No idea what game you were watching in all honesty.



      My I suggest you watch MOTD2, and Danny Murphy's Analysis.
      BBC iPlayer if you do not have a copy, fast forward to 48:20 mins for the analysis.
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0667h2c/match-of-the-day-2-201516-09082015

      Don't know what game you were watching.
      stuey
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      Re: Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #761: Aug 12, 2015 10:19:24 am
      I think even his biggest admirers would confess he was isolated - many saying he had no service.

      He certainly wasn't any sort of threat for us in 90minutes put it that way.

      No idea what game you were watching in all honesty.



      I'm certainly not one of his ''biggest admirers'', far too early in the day to gauge any qualities and their effect on his overall influence on the team performance.
      Much to early as well for anyone to condemn the player on his first run out in the opening game of the season surrounded by team mates whose nuances and actual match-day reactions are unfamiliar to the player.
      Having experience of your vague and negative comment it is no surprise to come across such vilification of a new signing it's got to be said.   
      srslfc
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      Re: Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #762: Aug 12, 2015 11:36:41 am
      My I suggest you watch MOTD2, and Danny Murphy's Analysis.
      BBC iPlayer if you do not have a copy, fast forward to 48:20 mins for the analysis.
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0667h2c/match-of-the-day-2-201516-09082015

      Don't know what game you were watching.

      I'm not a fan of Murphy but that was a decent bit of analysis.

      Benteke showed a lot more than I thought he had even in this one game.
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #763: Aug 12, 2015 11:46:39 am
      Benteke showed a lot more than I thought he had even in this one game.
      Tut tut Si... You wait until Danny Murphy says 'it' before believing - and here's me thinking you actually read my posts.  :laugh:
      srslfc
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      Re: Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #764: Aug 12, 2015 11:56:55 am
      Tut tut Si... You wait until Danny Murphy says 'it' before believing - and here's me thinking you actually read my posts.  :laugh:


       ;D

      To be honest after reading a bit on here I already thought I'd judged him too early even before we signed him and your stuff was among it.

      Hollywood Balls
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      Re: Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #765: Aug 12, 2015 02:19:25 pm
      Its like banging your head against a brick wall.

      All summer a lot of people were asking why on earth are we signing Benteke when we won't play to his strengths, we won't supply him with the type of service he needs.

      So week 1 goes by, Benteke is isolated, doesn't get a sniff at goal, he has stood in the same position for most of the game waiting for a chance and then you get people saying 'we didn't give him the service' Well no sh*t Sherlock, some of us predicted this months ago.

      I strongly predict that Benteke will have dozens of games like yesterday for us and we will become frustrated with him. Its not necessarily his fault, I've said all along he is a beast providing you get the ball into him, but we won't. Instead we've got flair attacking players running at goal with the ball and we are looking for movement from our strikers and he simply doesn't offer it.  Hes at his best when you've got a wide man delivering him crosses and he is in a central position ready to attack the ball.

      Im not going to talk about Benteke all season don't worry but f**king hell I just cant believe people are saying 'He didn't get the service'. What do you think we've been saying for months.

      Don't think you can use the game to congratulate yourself  The plan was to keep things tight for the first 65 minutes and avoid losing rather than going for their jugular. No striker would have thrived on the service offered - Lallana and Ibe were far too slow to release the ball on either flank - and they would have been whoever was playing up top.

      Benteke also looked to be developing an understanding with Coutinho and narrowly missed getting onto a great ball from Henderson.

      Before you start patting yourself on the back with "I told you soes" it would be interesting to know how many goals and assists Benteke will get for us this season?

      I predict 15 goals and 5 assists which will be a good return for his first season.

      Gill95
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      Re: Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #766: Aug 12, 2015 05:04:17 pm
      Don't think you can use the game to congratulate yourself  The plan was to keep things tight for the first 65 minutes and avoid losing rather than going for their jugular. No striker would have thrived on the service offered - Lallana and Ibe were far too slow to release the ball on either flank - and they would have been whoever was playing up top.

      Benteke also looked to be developing an understanding with Coutinho and narrowly missed getting onto a great ball from Henderson.

      Before you start patting yourself on the back with "I told you soes" it would be interesting to know how many goals and assists Benteke will get for us this season?

      I predict 15 goals and 5 assists which will be a good return for his first season.
      Agree with your point that there is nothing to conclude from Benteke's first match.

      As for the "i told you so",you will be the first one to say this if we have a good season(which i think we will).
      Son Of A Gun
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      Re: Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #767: Aug 12, 2015 05:40:16 pm
      Another important point about Lovren - as its ridiculously fashionable amongst some to hate upon him - was that in the build up to the goal, Lovren was the player who brought the ball out from back pretty much dribbling it to the centre circle, before passing to Gomez and Coutinho scoring.

      Yes, its a wonder goal, but the fact remains was that with Lovren dribbling the ball out the back like a certain Alan Hansen, he also pulled Stoke players out of position, providing Gomez, and more importantly, Coutinho with space to work with.

      Now I very much doubt Skrtel would be able to do that now. It's not just a centre backs job to defend - what we saw from Lovren was the ability for a defender to get involved in attacks by starting them. That was classic 'libero' style play of which we've barely seen at Liverpool since Hansen retired.

      Skrtel cannot do this - all he ever does is stupidly pass back to Mignolet, putting the goalkeeper under immense pressure - not only stupid, but cowardly in the manner that he refuses to take responsibility with the ball. In fact, he barely passes forward.

      Lovren commanded the game from the back brilliantly on Sunday. It's a marker of what we need our defenders to do.
      fishpie
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      Re: Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #768: Aug 12, 2015 06:14:17 pm
      Another important point about Lovren - as its ridiculously fashionable amongst some to hate upon him - was that in the build up to the goal, Lovren was the player who brought the ball out from back pretty much dribbling it to the centre circle, before passing to Gomez and Coutinho scoring.

      Yes, its a wonder goal, but the fact remains was that with Lovren dribbling the ball out the back like a certain Alan Hansen, he also pulled Stoke players out of position, providing Gomez, and more importantly, Coutinho with space to work with.

      Now I very much doubt Skrtel would be able to do that now. It's not just a centre backs job to defend - what we saw from Lovren was the ability for a defender to get involved in attacks by starting them. That was classic 'libero' style play of which we've barely seen at Liverpool since Hansen retired.

      Skrtel cannot do this - all he ever does is stupidly pass back to Mignolet, putting the goalkeeper under immense pressure - not only stupid, but cowardly in the manner that he refuses to take responsibility with the ball. In fact, he barely passes forward.

      Lovren commanded the game from the back brilliantly on Sunday. It's a marker of what we need our defenders to do.

      I didn't notice this, but cool. This was a thing we heard he could do, silky with the ball n all that.
      It's good that he feels comfortable being the player we were supposed to be getting, he didn't show us any of this class last season though, so that's why so many fans aren't sold on him.
      Agger did this kind of thing too didn't he though? Sakho is also capable of doing this but likes to stay in position.
      Lets hope we see Lovren grow into himself and stop being the nervy player we've seen, it's very likely he will, needs to get consistent and I'm sure fans will love him for it.
      Son Of A Gun
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      Re: Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #769: Aug 12, 2015 06:29:50 pm
      I didn't notice this, but cool. This was a thing we heard he could do, silky with the ball n all that.
      It's good that he feels comfortable being the player we were supposed to be getting, he didn't show us any of this class last season though, so that's why so many fans aren't sold on him.
      Agger did this kind of thing too didn't he though? Sakho is also capable of doing this but likes to stay in position.
      Lets hope we see Lovren grow into himself and stop being the nervy player we've seen, it's very likely he will, needs to get consistent and I'm sure fans will love him for it.

      Agger did have this ability, but it's a tactic and ability that Rodgers emphasises with centre backs more so than previous managers. I think Rodgers would have loved Agger in his prime.

      I remember when Hodgson was boss - Agger was holding the ball dribbling it up field, then Hodgson goes mental and screams "JUST F***ing CLEAR IT!". Everything you needed to learn about Hodgson was summed up in that one little moment.
      fishpie
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      Re: Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #770: Aug 12, 2015 06:40:20 pm
      Agger did have this ability, but it's a tactic and ability that Rodgers emphasises with centre backs more so than previous managers. I think Rodgers would have loved Agger in his prime.

      I remember when Hodgson was boss - Agger was holding the ball dribbling it up field, then Hodgson goes mental and screams "JUST F***ing CLEAR IT!". Everything you needed to learn about Hodgson was summed up in that one little moment.

      OMG what a bottlehouse tactic manager bodgeson is, it's not as if Agger got caught out often, he roamed forward when he saw the opening.
      If Rodgers wants this to be a thing, players have to change positions automatically when Lovren (or alternative) leaves his position, like Germany did so well at euro 96. Someone moves out of position - someone slots into where the gap is, it was great tactical football.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #771: Aug 12, 2015 06:40:22 pm
      Skrtel cannot do this - all he ever does is stupidly pass back to Mignolet, putting the goalkeeper under immense pressure - not only stupid, but cowardly in the manner that he refuses to take responsibility with the ball. In fact, he barely passes forward.

      And this is why we need a ball player in that DM role, not Hendo, not Milner and not even Can, otherwise, it's gonna be the same old.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #772: Aug 12, 2015 07:36:01 pm
      And this is why we need a ball player in that DM role, not Hendo, not Milner and not even Can, otherwise, it's gonna be the same old.

      Seeing how the manager does not seem to want to use a DM it looks like it will be the same old; the gaffer has his way and rightly or wrongly is sticking with it.
      Son Of A Gun
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      Re: Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #773: Aug 12, 2015 07:53:02 pm
      And this is why we need a ball player in that DM role, not Hendo, not Milner and not even Can, otherwise, it's gonna be the same old.

      Well I think Can is a lot more comfortable on the ball than the other two. And I don't think there's any excuse for Skrtel considering many of the other defenders don't play so cowardly.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #774: Aug 12, 2015 07:56:00 pm
      Well I think Can is a lot more comfortable on the ball than the other two. And I don't think there's any excuse for Skrtel considering many of the other defenders don't play so cowardly.

      In terms of passing, Can is our weakest, but he does have composure to be able to dribble out of tight situations. All depends on what Rodgers want from his DM I guess. And I don't think it's cowardly from Skrtel, he's just not very good at it and needs better support from our midfielders.
      Son Of A Gun
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      Re: Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #775: Aug 12, 2015 08:06:30 pm
      In terms of passing, Can is our weakest, but he does have composure to be able to dribble out of tight situations. All depends on what Rodgers want from his DM I guess. And I don't think it's cowardly from Skrtel, he's just not very good at it and needs better support from our midfielders.

      The problem with players helping Skrtel out, then you bring midfielders out of position to mask those vulnerabilities and leaves the team out of shape. If he's at odds with that style of play, then I'd like to see Sakho phased in or if Brendan doesn't believe in Sakho, buy a new defender who is more capable with the ball at his feet.
      Son Of A Gun
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      Re: Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #776: Aug 12, 2015 10:36:31 pm
      OMG what a bottlehouse tactic manager bodgeson is, it's not as if Agger got caught out often, he roamed forward when he saw the opening.
      If Rodgers wants this to be a thing, players have to change positions automatically when Lovren (or alternative) leaves his position, like Germany did so well at euro 96. Someone moves out of position - someone slots into where the gap is, it was great tactical football.

      Anyway, more news on the Hodge front from tomorrow's back pages, "the FA will sack him if England fail at next summer's Euros".

      So that means there will definitely be a new England manager next year.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #777: Aug 12, 2015 11:05:07 pm
      The problem with players helping Skrtel out, then you bring midfielders out of position to mask those vulnerabilities and leaves the team out of shape. If he's at odds with that style of play, then I'd like to see Sakho phased in or if Brendan doesn't believe in Sakho, buy a new defender who is more capable with the ball at his feet.

      Well, it does depend on how Rodgers wants to use his holding midfielder. If it's a ball player, he'll be ok as they always tend to drop deeper to collect the ball from the CB's. But the way I see it, we are most likely going with Can, Hendo and Milner in midfield, so I'm guessing we'll see more of a gap between the defence and midfield, so Skrtel may see more of the ball which I have to agree, it'll be a worry.

      Anyway, hopefully we'll get more of an idea of how Rodgers wants his midfielders to play and the style of football he wants in the next 5 games :) Will be interesting to see!
      fishpie
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      Re: Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #778: Aug 12, 2015 11:05:43 pm
      Anyway, more news on the Hodge front from tomorrow's back pages, "the FA will sack him if England fail at next summer's Euros".

      So that means there will definitely be a new England manager next year.

      Harry Redknapp many years too late if at all, it's quite sad, I haven't stuck up (felt anything) for England since Venables at the Euros. That's quite a long time with foreign chess masters included too.
      « Last Edit: Aug 12, 2015 11:19:03 pm by fishpie »
      GERNS
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      Re: Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #779: Aug 12, 2015 11:25:28 pm
      I know Stoke away is one of the more difficult places to go, but is that for every one, or just us and the more lowly sides ?
      I wasn't over impressed with our overall game, and I am now intrigued by how other top teams perform there in comparison.
      Son Of A Gun
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      Re: Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #780: Aug 12, 2015 11:37:04 pm

      Harry Redknapp many years too late if at all, it's quite sad, I haven't stuck up (felt anything) for England since Venables at the Euros. That's quite a long time with foreign chess masters included too.

      Being honest here, many in the media are fans of Brendan - I feel he's been buttered up by a few writers as their future England manager, because he 'can coach British players the right way, etc, etc'.

      Hopefully not - even if Brendan isn't in this job come next summer, I wouldn't want him to take on that poisoned chalice. I really think any manager is fu**ed if they are to manage England. That's just the way it is when you have a backward footballing culture that cannot produce kids to play football the right way, and I think this is going to get worse before it gets better (I heard recently, in terms of youth development, England are falling further behind the leading pack - even Denmark are producing better youngsters I hear).
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #781: Aug 12, 2015 11:52:09 pm
      Finally got to watch the game again.  A functional performance on the whole, neither good nor bad. 

      Mignolet - Much improved from last season.  Still an issue with his distribution, speed and accuracy, but dealt with the few chances Stoke created. 7/10

      Clyne - Solid, looks like he's been here years.  Should have torn Skrtel a new one on a couple of occasions. 7/10

      Gomez - Walter's showed him some tricks, which he's sure to learn from. Comfortable display 7/10

      Skretl - Caused a few issues and if he continues to partner Lovren, I want to see him communicate more. 6/10

      Lovren - On second watch, think he was our best player on the day, one slightly iffy header, little else wrong. 8/10

      Henderson - Worked hard, a bit patchy.  Sometimes not aware of how much time he has. 6/10

      Milner - Think we see a few of these from him, solid, reliable. 7/10

      Lallana - Poor, very little came off for him. 5/10

      Coutinho - Give him all the credit in the world for the goal, in fact I think it's worth an extra point on his score, but he was much like Henderson, patchy. 7/10

      Ibe - One of the reasons I watched the game, I thought he was our poorest player on the day, re-watch re-enforced that opinion.  He recently stated he needs to improve his end product. He's right.  He also needs to be more aware of runs around him as well.  Rightfully, he hasn't received the stick that Lallana has got, as we need to show patience with our youth.  5/10

      Benteke - Barely got a sniff, but caused Stoke's back line some issues.  Not quite on the same wavelength as his team mates, but promising. 6/10

      Can - Wasn't hugely involved when he came on, but he did seem to inject some urgency to those in front of him. 6/10

      Firmino - Not enough time on pitch to rate, promising glimpses.

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