Stoke City 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate

Agree, even though as he said it is strange to type
http://www.espnfc.co.uk/blog/espn-fc-united-blog/68/post/2555377/dejan-lovren-stars-jose-mourinho-arsenal-and-tottenham-flop

I would think Firmino would play behind the striker, not ahead of someone like Benteke. Benteke is not an out and out striker for me, he needs someone ahead of him. It should be Benteke/Firmino with Sturridge/Ings ahead in a partnership. Punting the ball up for him to head down is not how I want us to play. I hope yesterday was a one off specifically for Stoke.

I actually see Benteke more as the main striker and the one that should be ahead and leading the line. I feel Firmino playing off him as the 2nd striker would be perfect, but we shall see as the season progresses I guess!

Not to worried about the personel we have its how we fit them in . What stood out for me was how deep henderson was it is simply not his position. Defenders are going to play high line against Benteke which means we need someone who can make runs behind and for me Henderson is our best threat. The formation will be the key and getting the best out  of the players on the field.

Its like banging your head against a brick wall.

All summer a lot of people were asking why on earth are we signing Benteke when we won't play to his strengths, we won't supply him with the type of service he needs.

So week 1 goes by, Benteke is isolated, doesn't get a sniff at goal, he has stood in the same position for most of the game waiting for a chance and then you get people saying 'we didn't give him the service' Well no sh*t Sherlock, some of us predicted this months ago.

I strongly predict that Benteke will have dozens of games like yesterday for us and we will become frustrated with him. Its not necessarily his fault, I've said all along he is a beast providing you get the ball into him, but we won't. Instead we've got flair attacking players running at goal with the ball and we are looking for movement from our strikers and he simply doesn't offer it.  Hes at his best when you've got a wide man delivering him crosses and he is in a central position ready to attack the ball.

Im not going to talk about Benteke all season don't worry but f**king hell I just cant believe people are saying 'He didn't get the service'. What do you think we've been saying for months.

I hadn't seen much of Benteke to know what he's like, but I can see why people have said that he won't fit. At the moment (1 one game) it does look like a misfit IMO, but it doesn't necessarily mean it has to end like that.

Rodgers bought Benteke, Rodgers needs to get the best out of him in this side.

Let's give him time to see whether we can utilise Benteke's strengths before writing this signing off.

I strongly predict that Benteke will have dozens of games like yesterday for us and we will become frustrated with him. Its not necessarily his fault, I've said all along he is a beast providing you get the ball into him, but we won't. Instead we've got flair attacking players running at goal with the ball and we are looking for movement from our strikers and he simply doesn't offer it.  Hes at his best when you've got a wide man delivering him crosses and he is in a central position ready to attack the ball.Im not going to talk about Benteke all season don't worry but f**king hell I just cant believe people are saying 'He didn't get the service'. What do you think we've been saying for months.

You may well be right on the money here fella but i'm happy enough to wait and see how he fares over the next few games as I don't think he (or a few of the others are fit yet). Other teams manage to play fast attacking football with a big lad up top (Arsenal do it with Giroud, Saints managed it for 2 years with Lambert up there) so the question will be can Brendan? I was firmly against the Benteke signing but am willing to see how it pans out. I liked the fact he looked to drift off defenders and play on the shoulder. As for who should play in the 10 shirt I think Firmino will be more suited to the role than Coutinho when Benteke is in the side. Coutinho loves playing in the hole, commiting defenders and dinking balls in for others to run onto, he doesn't really get ahead of the ball though, it's very rare he is furthest man forward but when Benteke drops someone has to get beyond him.   


I thought we had a more robust look to us yesterday which was good to see. There was extra energy in the side with Milner and Clyne in the team and Benteke's presence at set pieces gave me some confidence from a defensive perspective. We certainly looked like a more physical side and didn't get pushed around, young Gomez stood up well to the physical challenge, Ibe has the frame to handle himself and even Coutinho looks like he has added a bit of muscle to his frame. It seems unlikely that we will come close to the barnstorming attacking football of 2 years ago with this side and it would make sense (having hung our coat on Benteke) to adopt a slightly more physical and direct approach.

I strongly predict that Benteke will have dozens of games like yesterday

Fabulous if he does as we won yesterday with him playing like that 

Its like banging your head against a brick wall.

All summer a lot of people were asking why on earth are we signing Benteke when we won't play to his strengths, we won't supply him with the type of service he needs.

So week 1 goes by, Benteke is isolated, doesn't get a sniff at goal, he has stood in the same position for most of the game waiting for a chance and then you get people saying 'we didn't give him the service' Well no sh*t Sherlock, some of us predicted this months ago.

I strongly predict that Benteke will have dozens of games like yesterday for us and we will become frustrated with him. Its not necessarily his fault, I've said all along he is a beast providing you get the ball into him, but we won't. Instead we've got flair attacking players running at goal with the ball and we are looking for movement from our strikers and he simply doesn't offer it.  Hes at his best when you've got a wide man delivering him crosses and he is in a central position ready to attack the ball.

Im not going to talk about Benteke all season don't worry but f**king hell I just cant believe people are saying 'He didn't get the service'. What do you think we've been saying for months.

Actually, we didn't have anyone that would qualify as "flair attacking players running at goal" in yesterday's game. Our entire midfield was very stagnant and very wasteful. Stoke play Bully Ball. We should have been more direct to take advantage of Benteke's strength. He was actually very mobile yesterday if you watched much of him off the ball. Our midfield was useless yesterday and it wouldn't have mattered if we'd have had Sturridge or Suarez playing up top, it wouldn't have made a difference the way our midfielders were being wasteful with the ball. Try to give it at least a few games before you start the tired "I told you so" routine.

It's amazing how it's more important for some people to feel proven right than to enjoy the fact that we won a tough game and got 3 points. Some of you need to check yourself and determine why you actually support this team.

Is it actually that difficult for people to rejoice in a Liverpool victory these days?

We won and that's what Liverpool fans want isn't it? To see their club win. I know I do so I'm gonna enjoy the fact that we did win.

Main pluses for me were Clyne and Gomez. Stoke obviously like to get wide and get crosses in and we limited that pretty well, which was mostly down to the full backs. As a result our back 4, while not fantastic, were a bit better than usual.

My main negative is that, as for most of last season, we created so little going forward. Took a great long ranger from Cou to get the goal, apart from that we didnt create a single good chance. Early days so I'm not reading too much into it yet. We worked hard and were committed and reasonably solid, which is at least the minimum we needed to show.

On Benteke, yeah he was isolated. If we are going to play 1 up front, then high balls up to his head are no good. He cant flick the ball onto himself, and its near impossible for him to keep possession if its coming to his head.
We could give him a strike partner to feed off him, but I would stick with on his own for longer, but make sure we play the ball into his feet instead of his head. His touch is decent, and obviously he can hold defenders off, creating time for the 3 AM's to get up and support him.

The main reason I'd stick with the 4-2-3-1 is that I think it gets our best players on the pitch ( I'd like to see Lallana, Coutinho and Firmino all playing. We could also play 4-3-3 for physically tougher/away games, with Can on instead of 1 of the 3 AM's, but that still would mean Benteke on his own up front.)
I think Brendan ( rightly) will stick with Benteke on his own for the next few games, but emphasise playing it into his feet not his head. If that doesnt work, then putting Ings up next him will be plan B.
(When/if Sturridge is fit, then 2 up top might become plan A.)

Is it actually that difficult for people to rejoice in a Liverpool victory these days?

We won and that's what Liverpool fans want isn't it? To see their club win. I know I do so I'm gonna enjoy the fact that we did win.

Don't think people know how to rejoice about most things these days Billy, let alone a football match. 

If the manner in how we won isn't to their liking then that will always override the 3 points.

Don't think people know how to rejoice about most things these days Billy, let alone a football match. 

If the manner in how we won isn't to their liking then that will always override the 3 points.

There should be nothing more enjoyable than getting the 3 points no matter what happens in the 90 minutes. I was buzzing! One thing that's doing my head in though is having to play those tits on either the first or last day of the season. It's happened for the past 3-4 seasons now.

Don't think people know how to rejoice about most things these days Billy, let alone a football match. 

If the manner in how we won isn't to their liking then that will always override the 3 points.

I think most apart from a handful of miserably fuckwits were made up with the win yesterday.

Actually, we didn't have anyone that would qualify as "flair attacking players running at goal" in yesterday's game. Our entire midfield was very stagnant and very wasteful. Stoke play Bully Ball. We should have been more direct to take advantage of Benteke's strength. He was actually very mobile yesterday if you watched much of him off the ball. Our midfield was useless yesterday and it wouldn't have mattered if we'd have had Sturridge or Suarez playing up top, it wouldn't have made a difference the way our midfielders were being wasteful with the ball. Try to give it at least a few games before you start the tired "I told you so" routine.

It's amazing how it's more important for some people to feel proven right than to enjoy the fact that we won a tough game and got 3 points. Some of you need to check yourself and determine why you actually support this team.

I agree the midfield and our attack play was poor in general. I also agree that we should have played to Bentekes strengths and perhaps gone more direct. Disgaree he was mobile though. I only remember him making one decent run towards the end of the game but he was too slow to get on the end of Cans pass. Bentekes best play yesterday came when he was in the central positions and the ball was played into him and he neatly laid it off to other players. His touch looked quite good yesterday. But that being said, he was not a threat for 90mins and its because we didn't play to his strengths.

I'm not going down the whole 'I told you so' routine at all. Im not going to judge Benteke after 90mins in our first game of the season. Im also not going to comment on his performances every week either constantly criticising him. I'm just not surprised at his performance yesterday and us looking a bit toothless in attack. Its just annoying when people are saying well he didn't get the service. The same people who were telling us how mobile Benteke is and all the different type of goals he scores and how he will fit in here and so on.

Our flair players were poor yesterday too I agree , but I just meant in general. Coutinho for example is looking for the striker to move for him to either create space for himself or so Cou can pick him out with a through ball. Hes not looking for a big strong tank to whip the ball into.

I think you're more concerned about being proven wrong than I am about being proven right mate. A great 3 points yesterday. The football wasn't pretty but we dug in. We looked solid and organised - never felt like Stoke where going to score put it that way. I'm very happy with the points but I don't think you can argue that Benteke wasn't involved and he wasn't any threat for us either.

There should be nothing more enjoyable than getting the 3 points no matter what happens in the 90 minutes. I was buzzing! One thing that's doing my head in though is having to play those tits on either the first or last day of the season. It's happened for the past 3-4 seasons now.

I think most apart from a handful of miserably fuckwits were made up with the win yesterday.

3 points is all that matters, ever.  Play like yesterday, with that result, in all 38 games and we're League Champions, how can you complain at that? 

Some will of course as there's always a "but" or a "however" for those who like to live on the dark side 

Got the house to myself now so going to settle down and rewatch the game.  Didn't bother doing that much last season 

3 points is all that matters, ever.

Jose? 

Play like yesterday, with that result, in all 38 games and we're League Champions, how can you complain at that?

Play like that every week and we will not get that result even 50% of the time. Thats not being negative, just realistic.
( Thats not me saying we were terrible either. We weren't.)

I would take it for granted that any real fan is happy with the 3 points ( well, ok, there are some masochists out there who are happier when they're losing, but generally speaking).

That doesnt mean you just go "yay 3 points, end of discussion". Would be  a pretty boring forum, apart from anything else, if people werent able to discuss the pros and cons of the performance, except when we lose.

Jose? 
Play like that every week and we will not get that result even 50% of the time. Thats not being negative, just realistic.
( Thats not me saying we were terrible either. We weren't.)

I would take it for granted that any real fan is happy with the 3 points ( well, ok, there are some masochists out there who are happier when they're losing, but generally speaking).

That doesnt mean you just go "yay 3 points, end of discussion". Would be  a pretty boring forum, apart from anything else, if people werent able to discuss the pros and cons of the performance, except when we lose.

Mate there is never an issue with having an objective discussion after a game.

The issue is when some posters will ONLY make negative comments or snide remarks to take away any gloss on a win for us away from home opening game of the season against a very difficult opposition.

That my friend is where I take issue.

That doesnt mean you just go "yay 3 points, end of discussion". Would be  a pretty boring forum, apart from anything else, if people werent able to discuss the pros and cons of the performance, except when we lose.

Couldn't agree more. I'm sure everyone is happy with the 3 points. Really don't see the problem in people discussing the negatives, it actually makes a good read to see other people's opinions on why we were poor

Mate there is never an issue with having an objective discussion after a game.

The issue is when some posters will ONLY make negative comments or snide remarks to take away any gloss on a win for us away from home opening game of the season against a very difficult opposition.

That my friend is where I take issue.

Oh I agree with that. I was just addressing what debs was saying.
I've not read much of this thread so no doubt she was talking about some earlier posts. (But objectively speaking her point was still wrong though. Clearly we couldnt win the title playing like that.)

Cracking match from what I seen, fell asleep basically at kick off and woke up just as Coutinho scored

Don't think people know how to rejoice about most things these days Billy, let alone a football match. 

If the manner in how we won isn't to their liking then that will always override the 3 points.

It's a F***ing joke girl.

We win, fact that it was the opening day, away from home, against the side who twatted us 6-1 last season and a sh*t performance are all irrelevant. We won. And any game Liverpool win is a great day for me. Liverpool Football Club winning football matches is all I need to enjoy the match.

Jose? 
Play like that every week and we will not get that result even 50% of the time. Thats not being negative, just realistic.
( Thats not me saying we were terrible either. We weren't.)

I would take it for granted that any real fan is happy with the 3 points ( well, ok, there are some masochists out there who are happier when they're losing, but generally speaking).

That doesnt mean you just go "yay 3 points, end of discussion". Would be  a pretty boring forum, apart from anything else, if people werent able to discuss the pros and cons of the performance, except when we lose.

I love a good dissection of the game as much as the next person but it is possible to critique in a positive way, some however just want to be negative, despite a win. 

They never go into the player threads that had good games so they can praise a job well done, no, they just head straight to the player threads who had bad ones.  They then don't even critique that player, just complain that "we could've got X, Y, or Z player for less money" or that a different player in the squad who hasn't even made the 18 would have done better. 

It's negativity for the sake of it.

Oh I agree with that. I was just addressing what debs was saying.
I've not read much of this thread so no doubt she was talking about some earlier posts. (But objectively speaking her point was still wrong though. Clearly we couldnt win the title playing like that.)

As for my point being wrong, you've misread what I posted.  My point was "play like that, with that result, for 38 games we win the Title" not "play like that and we win the title" because without that result we clearly won't. 

It's all in the context of all of the words my friend, not just the bits you select 

It's a F***ing joke girl.

We win, fact that it was the opening day, away from home, against the side who twatted us 6-1 last season and a sh*t performance are all irrelevant. We won. And any game Liverpool win is a great day for me. Liverpool Football Club winning football matches is all I need to enjoy the match.

Couldn't agree more mate