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      The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?

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      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?
      Reply #460: Oct 06, 2015 06:32:34 am
      Tell me what players he didn't want ? Exactly. You're just making assumptions.

      He clearly wanted players like Lovren, Borini, Allen, Benteke, Firmino, Lallana, Lambert and he failed to make a good use of them, while some of them are utter rubbish.

      That's the point! Just like you, I don't know which players Brendan wanted or didn't. You and Federer say Brendan had the final say on all transfers, so you must then agree Brendan wanted every player he signed, including Sturridge, Coutinho, Sakho, Firmino.

      Wether or not he got the best out of them is a different issue.
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?
      Reply #461: Oct 06, 2015 06:41:45 am
      Any reliable lead on leading candidate?

      YNWA

      :D

      Beerbelly
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      Re: The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?
      Reply #462: Oct 06, 2015 06:44:39 am
      Just trying to find a bit of info on Klopp and came up with an article that thinks its found an Achillies heel with Klopp's Gegenpressing, which translates to 'counter-pressing'.

      It sounds as though this article was written towards the end of Klopp's time at Dortmund. And the author states that this "strategy" has been found out by now in the Bundasliga.

      In fact, it very much reads similar to Rodgers. To sum up - press high (we used to do this with Rodgers). Teams like Monchengladbach countered this (as we found) by sitting deep (ala Chelsea at Anfield), which lead to Rodgers Klopp's side having more possession. When Klopp's side had more possession their results became worse (ring any bells?), as they were unacustomed to having time, space and the ball on their side - sounds very familiar.

      Any counter points would be welcome. I have no idea about Klopp personally. But another thing of note is that Germany has a 6 week break over Christmas. And Dortmund in their previous 3 seasons came back better after a 6 week training camp exercise.  Klopp used this luxury to good effect, one he won't have when plying his trade in England.

      Anyway here is the article:

      Adam Bate from Sky Sports, while explaining Dortmund's winning formula in recent years, said, "Part of the appeal of the Dortmund success story - winning two Bundesliga titles and reaching the final of the Champions League - was precisely because of their unique style. Klopp's team presses high up the pitch in an effort to win the ball back nearer the opposition goal. For them, the key moment to expose a weakness is when the opponent has surrendered the ball. As a result, possession becomes less important than the moment the opposition loses possession. The more it happens the better. It makes for a high-energy approach that is almost counter-intuitive at the top level of the game." Bate's emphasis on "the moment the opposition loses position" also explains the biggest problem with Dortmund's strategy, Gegenpressing, which means counter pressing in German. Although, it is nice to create a new terminology for football, it is obvious that this term is a success of the German marketing system. This counter pressing, which is pressing the opponent like a shockwave or in other words, like a blitzkrieg, was neither new nor revolutionary.

      First of all, the concept of the press is never sufficient to become a strategy on its own. It may look like a strategy in Dortmund's case, but there is always another sneaky detail hiding behind the visual. In this case, not surprisingly though, what smells like the center of Dortmund's strategy is a familiar one, counter attacking. At this point, frustratingly the whole strategy loses its originality. However, the reasoning behind this is very simple. A team presses its opponent to take the ball, this is the simple part. Nevertheless, the actual strategy shows up when you have the ball. Thus, what makes pressing meaningful is the answer that you give to this question: What are you going to do with the ball?

      Secondly, in the neo-total football strategy, especially Josep Guardiola's Barcelona and Bayern Munich, this kind of pressing was always present. Guardiola, in order to make the opponent stay in their half and to create an offensive circulation, implemented this pressing method before Jürgen Klopp. Added to that, since Dortmund make use of this strategy in favor of counter attacking, in other words not attacking in a sophisticated way, there were always fewer players pressing on the Dortmund side than the Guardiola-era Barcelona and today's Bayern Munich. Once upon a time Dortmund's pace compensated for their strategic deficiencies and players like Nuri Şahin and İlkay Gündoğan mostly handled the organizational work. Nonetheless, this season the whole strategy of Jürgen Klopp collapsed. Of course, injuries and their losses in the transfer market affected the team's performance, but more importantly, Dortmund's opponents figured out how to stop them.

      In their latest game, which was a decisive loss against Borussia Monchengladbach, Dortmund were hopelessly trying to implement their strategy, which was easily confronted by the opponent. Monchengladbach's strategy was one of the simplest and most pathetic plans that a team can choose to play, but it paid off. While Dortmund panicked and tried to attack as fast as they could, they imbalanced their game at the same time and Monchengladbach made the few opportunities they got count. Well, if you insist on playing fast and vertically against a defensive-minded opponent and if your opponent is ready to wait for your mistakes, your are probably going to give a lot of chances to the opponent.

      On the other hand, Dortmund's possession stats are higher this season (55.4 percent) than in any of the previous four campaigns in which they finished in the top two every time. Ironically, this affects Dortmund's game play in a negative way because they simply do not know what to do when they have time, space and the ball. I respect Klopp's work but Dortmund is a really easy opponent to solve nowadays. If you choose a regressive strategy against Dortmund then the team just goes out of control. Players start trying to create opportunities on their own, not enough patience is given to prepare offensive moves and defensive line imbalances. Therefore, Dortmund and Klopp has to acknowledge their strategy's inability to surprise opponents and dominate the game. Gegenpressing was cool once upon a time, but it just does not count anymore.

      http://www.dailysabah.com/sports/2015/04/13/rise-and-fall-of-gegenpressing

      Here's another one, found on RAWK, decent read this:

      http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/training-time-tactics-tweaks-and-enduring-love-how-klopp-averted-crisis#:FeZC8JnJ4ggt8A
      « Last Edit: Oct 06, 2015 07:12:48 am by Beerbelly »
      HScRed1
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      Re: The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?
      Reply #463: Oct 06, 2015 07:08:29 am
      Just trying to find a bit of info on Klopp and came up with an article that thinks its found an Achillies heel with Klopp's Gegenpressing, which translates to 'counter-pressing'.

      It sounds as though this article was written towards the end of Klopp's time at Dortmund. And the author states that this "strategy" has been found out by now in the Bundasliga.

      In fact, it very much reads similar to Rodgers. To sum up - press high (we used to do this with Rodgers). Teams like Monchengladbach countered this (as we found) by sitting deep (ala Chelsea at Anfield), which lead to Rodgers Klopp's side having more possession. When Klopp's side had more possession their results became worse (ring any bells?), as they were unacustomed to having time, space and the ball on their side - sounds very familiar.

      Any counter points would be welcome. I have no idea about Klopp personally. Though there are plenty of people spreading the hyperbole on the LFC boards about him; I looked elsewhere to get some balance, anyway here is the article:

      Adam Bate from Sky Sports, while explaining Dortmund's winning formula in recent years, said, "Part of the appeal of the Dortmund success story - winning two Bundesliga titles and reaching the final of the Champions League - was precisely because of their unique style. Klopp's team presses high up the pitch in an effort to win the ball back nearer the opposition goal. For them, the key moment to expose a weakness is when the opponent has surrendered the ball. As a result, possession becomes less important than the moment the opposition loses possession. The more it happens the better. It makes for a high-energy approach that is almost counter-intuitive at the top level of the game." Bate's emphasis on "the moment the opposition loses position" also explains the biggest problem with Dortmund's strategy, Gegenpressing, which means counter pressing in German. Although, it is nice to create a new terminology for football, it is obvious that this term is a success of the German marketing system. This counter pressing, which is pressing the opponent like a shockwave or in other words, like a blitzkrieg, was neither new nor revolutionary.

      First of all, the concept of the press is never sufficient to become a strategy on its own. It may look like a strategy in Dortmund's case, but there is always another sneaky detail hiding behind the visual. In this case, not surprisingly though, what smells like the center of Dortmund's strategy is a familiar one, counter attacking. At this point, frustratingly the whole strategy loses its originality. However, the reasoning behind this is very simple. A team presses its opponent to take the ball, this is the simple part. Nevertheless, the actual strategy shows up when you have the ball. Thus, what makes pressing meaningful is the answer that you give to this question: What are you going to do with the ball?

      Secondly, in the neo-total football strategy, especially Josep Guardiola's Barcelona and Bayern Munich, this kind of pressing was always present. Guardiola, in order to make the opponent stay in their half and to create an offensive circulation, implemented this pressing method before Jürgen Klopp. Added to that, since Dortmund make use of this strategy in favor of counter attacking, in other words not attacking in a sophisticated way, there were always fewer players pressing on the Dortmund side than the Guardiola-era Barcelona and today's Bayern Munich. Once upon a time Dortmund's pace compensated for their strategic deficiencies and players like Nuri Şahin and İlkay Gündoğan mostly handled the organizational work. Nonetheless, this season the whole strategy of Jürgen Klopp collapsed. Of course, injuries and their losses in the transfer market affected the team's performance, but more importantly, Dortmund's opponents figured out how to stop them.

      In their latest game, which was a decisive loss against Borussia Monchengladbach, Dortmund were hopelessly trying to implement their strategy, which was easily confronted by the opponent. Monchengladbach's strategy was one of the simplest and most pathetic plans that a team can choose to play, but it paid off. While Dortmund panicked and tried to attack as fast as they could, they imbalanced their game at the same time and Monchengladbach made the few opportunities they got count. Well, if you insist on playing fast and vertically against a defensive-minded opponent and if your opponent is ready to wait for your mistakes, your are probably going to give a lot of chances to the opponent.

      On the other hand, Dortmund's possession stats are higher this season (55.4 percent) than in any of the previous four campaigns in which they finished in the top two every time. Ironically, this affects Dortmund's game play in a negative way because they simply do not know what to do when they have time, space and the ball. I respect Klopp's work but Dortmund is a really easy opponent to solve nowadays. If you choose a regressive strategy against Dortmund then the team just goes out of control. Players start trying to create opportunities on their own, not enough patience is given to prepare offensive moves and defensive line imbalances. Therefore, Dortmund and Klopp has to acknowledge their strategy's inability to surprise opponents and dominate the game. Gegenpressing was cool once upon a time, but it just does not count anymore.

      http://www.dailysabah.com/sports/2015/04/13/rise-and-fall-of-gegenpressing

      I wouldn't worry Klopp is a clever coach and doesn't just have one trick up his sleeve.

      PastorGeek
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      Re: The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?
      Reply #464: Oct 06, 2015 07:17:04 am
      What's the risk?

      That'll he'll go in and chin Ian Ayre the moment he misses out on one of our major targets?

      I like that level of risk, it's win-win ;D

      Poor last season at dortmund, never managed in england.
      Beerbelly
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      Re: The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?
      Reply #465: Oct 06, 2015 07:21:10 am
      Quote
      It's our flaws that help to shape our personalities

      I wonder what flaws you have that made you such an ill-mannered oaf.


      I said this in jest. Thought you would have known. Next time I'll use a smiley, since telepathy is another one of your personal flaws.

      ;D
      HScRed1
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      Re: The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?
      Reply #466: Oct 06, 2015 07:23:20 am
      Poor last season at dortmund, never managed in england.

      Never managed in England!......can't see a big problem there it's not like this league is any better than the bundesliga.

      s@int
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      Re: The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?
      Reply #467: Oct 06, 2015 07:43:39 am
      Just trying to find a bit of info on Klopp and came up with an article that thinks its found an Achillies heel with Klopp's Gegenpressing, which translates to 'counter-pressing'.

      It sounds as though this article was written towards the end of Klopp's time at Dortmund. And the author states that this "strategy" has been found out by now in the Bundasliga.

      In fact, it very much reads similar to Rodgers. To sum up - press high (we used to do this with Rodgers). Teams like Monchengladbach countered this (as we found) by sitting deep (ala Chelsea at Anfield), which lead to Rodgers Klopp's side having more possession. When Klopp's side had more possession their results became worse (ring any bells?), as they were unacustomed to having time, space and the ball on their side - sounds very familiar.

      Any counter points would be welcome. I have no idea about Klopp personally. But another thing of note is that Germany has a 6 week break over Christmas. And Dortmund in their previous 3 seasons came back better after a 6 week training camp exercise.  Klopp used this luxury to good effect, one he won't have when plying his trade in England.


      http://www.dailysabah.com/sports/2015/04/13/rise-and-fall-of-gegenpressing

      Here's another one, found on RAWK, decent read this:

      http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/training-time-tactics-tweaks-and-enduring-love-how-klopp-averted-crisis#:FeZC8JnJ4ggt8A

      The passionate Klopp or the more cerebral Ancelotti ?

      My first choice would still be Ancelotti, but I do think Klopp could possibly do more with less, which given Liverpool's circumstances might be a considerable benefit. I think Klopp would be the more exciting choice, the crowd pleaser and maybe even the one to get
      the best out of the players we have right now. I think Klopp is looking to stay a long time create a dynasty and a legacy at his next club so why not at Liverpool.

      Ancelotti for me is the nearest thing we could get to Rafa but maybe without the "machinations." Tactically astute, vastly experienced,plays good attractive football, seems to deal with situations and players in a calm controlled manner and a proven winner. Against this, he is used to dealing with top players and may find the restrictions at Liverpool frustrating, doesn't appear too eager to stay for more than a few years and is unlikely to be seen running 40 yards along the touchline shouting and waving his arms when we score.

      I still would prefer Ancelotti if given the choice, but will be delighted should we get Klopp but I won't be wearing that cap!         

      s@int
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      Re: The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?
      Reply #468: Oct 06, 2015 07:50:48 am

      I said this in jest. Thought you would have known. Next time I'll use a smiley, since telepathy is another one of your personal flaws.

      ;D


      As you know I have plenty of flaws mate, my sense of humour being just one of my them. I was probably still a little touchy after making a fool of myself with all this modern technology.... F***ing twitter! Sorry if I over-reacted.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?
      Reply #469: Oct 06, 2015 07:55:39 am

      oh lord, no doubt his teeth and the fact he's had a hair transplant will be used against him if things go tits up.
      federer
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      Re: The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?
      Reply #470: Oct 06, 2015 08:13:29 am
      But at the same time you claim Rodgers has veto on any player he didn't want! Can't have it both ways Fed!

      Barrett also said that Rodgers didn't want Firmino, but he said he would allow it if he got Benteke. 

      So you see that it is indeed possible.  Brendan DID have the authority to veto any player he wanted.  But he didn't have the authority to unilaterally go after a player the others did NOT want.  So it was sort of one-way veto power.

      And so it makes perfect sense.  The committee wanted someone like Firmino, and so he doesn't veto it, that way they will give him Benteke.  Doesn't mean he liked Firmino or intended to play him. 
      MIRO
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      Re: The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?
      Reply #471: Oct 06, 2015 08:16:21 am
      mate that's like saying a bloke who is banging your wife is really nice because he is always polite when he sees you.

      Rodgers may have "said the right things" but on what planet is that any sort of meaningful way to judge a manager?  while he was "saying the right things," he was systematically dragging our club down farther and farther into mid-table mediocrity.  Tony Barrett just wrote yesterday in an article that Rodgers tried to move for Ashley Williams over Sakho, Clint Dempsey over Sturridge, and for Ryan Bertrand!!  the committee we all condemn, f**king hell, thank god they were there to stop him doing it!

      Almost every step of the way he was undermining the traditions and history of the club. 

      By throwing in the towel before the game even started at Real Madrid and in the process spitting in the faces of the traveling supporters who for years had gone without those exciting nights. 
      Or how about when he sat on his arse the entire first half while we went down 0-5 before halftime vs. Stoke.  Make a substitution, change the formation, do SOMETHING.  No, he just sat and watched.  Why?  because the man never got that he was at a big club.  You don't go to a big club and say "I want Borini, Allen, Dempsey and Sigurdsson."  f**king hell.

      Wow, he said the right things.  Good for him.  Behind the scenes though and on the pitch he was doing the exact opposite---slowly dragging us down and turning us into the next Aston Villa.

      but yea, he said the right things, so who cares about that football rubbish, what matters is what he said in the press conferences.




      This     Brilliant Post Fed

      Yeh,

      He said all the right things. Its called talking the talk. Or bullshit.

      Anyone read his Swansea leaving statement ?   At least the LMA have kept this one mercifully brief.
      vulcan_red
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      Re: The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?
      Reply #472: Oct 06, 2015 08:20:40 am
      oh lord, no doubt his teeth and the fact he's had a hair transplant will be used against him if things go tits up.

      No mate I love Klopp and dortmund at their peak were fantastic but he does look a lot like .. Dr teeth and Animal for that matter and also Crazy Harry. They all look similar grant you.
      MIRO
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      Re: The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?
      Reply #473: Oct 06, 2015 08:21:42 am
      I have never seen so many footballers form drop off so badly after joining a new club.

      I would say Sturridge and Suarez were the only exceptions to the rule. 

      « Last Edit: Oct 06, 2015 09:15:27 am by eurored »
      barrymanulow
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      Re: The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?
      Reply #474: Oct 06, 2015 08:26:20 am
      Is anybody else surprised that the contract is only for 3 years...? When you get your hands on a manager like Klopp I would have expected a minimum of 4 years.

      When they got to pay up a fortune on the last cock up its not surprising they might go conservative this time.... I mean just in case
      brezipool
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      Re: The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?
      Reply #475: Oct 06, 2015 08:33:29 am
      3 years is about right
      federer
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      Re: The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?
      Reply #476: Oct 06, 2015 08:36:23 am
      Three years seems fine to me.  If things go well after this season then we can extend the contract.

      I just hope they have some ridiculous compensation fee if they sack him, like £100m or something, just to make absolutely sure they give him the full three years.
      andylfcynwa
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      Re: The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?
      Reply #477: Oct 06, 2015 08:49:17 am
      Neil warnock saying this morning that the deal is done , he said forget all the paper talk that talks are going well , he said clubs like ours dont sack a manager after a couple of games without having a man in place , just ssid it will be announced when we think the time is right ,
      s@int
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      Re: The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?
      Reply #478: Oct 06, 2015 08:51:50 am
      Neil warnock saying this morning that the deal is done , he said forget all the paper talk that talks are going well , he said clubs like ours dont sack a manager after a couple of games without having a man in place , just ssid it will be announced when we think the time is right ,

      So Neil Warnock is our new manager... always had him at the top of my list



      :)
      waltonl4
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      Re: The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?
      Reply #479: Oct 06, 2015 08:55:17 am

      see we must have fans all over the universe.
      Del Boca Vista
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      Re: The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?
      Reply #480: Oct 06, 2015 09:02:41 am
      Jürgen F***ing Klopp to Anfield, am I dreaming? this is nothing but amazing news for us, best since we signed Suarez
      ajayi82
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      Re: The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?
      Reply #481: Oct 06, 2015 09:07:21 am
      This news alongside firmino deal seems to be something ALL the fans agree on which is a positive step  as we need to now move on as one unit in Force and strart smashing teams both home and away. Klopp makes more FSG sense than Carlo as he's younger and can build a project whereas I think Carlo would only do short term before taking on another big job.
      MIRO
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      Re: The Next Manager of Liverpool FC?
      Reply #482: Oct 06, 2015 09:10:32 am
      Me.

      He never said a bad word about us. Always handled himself in a professional manner and had some wit about him. He Suarez gave us a season of complete and utter brilliance, one that i haven't experienced before.

      Ed:  I have.

      It's a shame it didn't work out because he had the personality to be a great here. He had the right ideas  ;D  overall but he just couldn't execute it.

      If that's how you treat people that have done no wrong to you or even met you...f**k me.

      I'm glad you're in the minority. I see far greater gratitude and best wishes across Liverpool boards towards Rodgers.
      Thank god Liverpool is not identified with fans like yourself as you're a f**king disgrace and embarrassment.


      Usual Suspects .
      Someone pulled Frankly's post again. Tut tut.

      Ladies.

      I don't give a sh*t what you think or what you don't.

      The fraud (used 5 times by other members within last couple of days ) has gone.

      Im not biting.  Its over.


      Here's a little something for you Brendan luvvies



      Quick Reply