Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

A buddy of mine tells me we need to sign De Vrij. He says he will make us a lot better and would fit in well with Matip. Looks slow to me and that's against Serie A competition. He says I'm wrong and he is top notch. This guy is someone who eats, sleeps, and craps football.

We need someone and that's for sure

We need someone and that's for sure

We can't do anything about signings now.

So what we have to do is out score our opponents.

The defence is a write off.

Exactly, kind of Rodgers/Keegan style.

Klopp you need to improve and be responsible for the team.

Is he still our best option? Yes but Klopp do not take us for granted!

Exactly, kind of Rodgers/Keegan style.

That type of style will never win us the league or do well in Europe.

FACT

If Klopp doesn't sort out our defence, both individually and as a working unit, he will lose his job.

We are living in a football world where managers lose their job after four games! More than ever this is a results business because big bucks are at stake. Four games! When you consider our defence is looking worse than it was when he arrived 2 seasons ago, you don't have to be a genius to see where this is slowly heading. 

I'm not making a post about whether or not Klopp needs sacking (for the record, no he doesn't), but all I can say is that I love Liverpool and have for a very long time, so if this carries on, I don't care who the man in charge is, if they can't turn it around, they need moving on. Managers come and go but Liverpool will always be here and when people can see the way we defend, questions will inevitably be asked, and are they are being asked.

Problem is, I am beginning to think Klopp isn't a great tactician. I think he's a great man manager who gets the best out his squad, but there is something wrong with our defence, and either Klopp can't see it, or sees it but thinks he can fix it. So far his fix isn't working. Whatever and whoever is to blame for the VvD debacle, it's astounding we didn't land him. The fact we were going to bid for him gives me hope; it leads me to believe Klopp can see we have issues and that he's trying to address them, and that he's only saying things like "it's not a defensive problem we have" not to throw his current defenders under the bus.

Keita will improve our midfield and our defensive play, but much more is needed if we are going to stop giving points away due to ridiculous defending. Bringing in 'a' centre back in January to improve us, goes a long way in doing that.

!00% Spot on Klopp is a fantastic man-manager but he is not a master tactician, certainly not defensively, so what do you do if you need to do something but don't know how, you hire someone who does, but to do that you need to be confident in yourself and I suspect there is a lot of insecurity and/or arrogance in Klopp. I am genuinely becoming a bit concerned about him. If he really thinks we have the best possible defence possible then he is borderline insane, certainly incompetent and stupid.
The solution to our issue is simple, all we need is to get 2 top notch CB's and a top notch specialist defensive coach, its so F***ing obvious so why does no one in the coaching staff at Liverpool understand it and why doesn't anyone in FSG see it??

If Klopp doesn't sort out our defence, both individually and as a working unit, he will lose his job.

We are living in a football world where managers lose their job after four games!

Disagree. He will only lose his job if he doesn't make CL. The money is what the owners are going for. There are many reasons why managers are sacked after four games. I believe chief reason is over money including threat to getting relegated and hence loss of premier league tv money and failure to make top four and getting CL money.

If he keeps making top four but fails to win anything, I think he will keep his job. Just that you and I will get restless and hope someone who can win the league takes over him.

Disagree. He will only lose his job if he doesn't make CL. The money is what the owners are going for. There are many reasons why managers are sacked after four games. I believe chief reason is over money including threat to getting relegated and hence loss of premier league tv money and failure to make top four and getting CL money.

If he keeps making top four but fails to win anything, I think he will keep his job. Just that you and I will get restless and hope someone who can win the league takes over him.

And if he doesn't sort out the defence he won't get ECL

That type of style will never win us the league or do well in Europe.

FACT

Almost certainly not mate, totally agree. When you've got Migs in goal though and Moreno at full back, attack isn't just the best form of defence, it's the only f****** form! Seriously if anybody gets a few crosses into our box or has a few shots they are going to score a goal or two. All the coaching of the defenders and keeper in the world ain't gonna change that, the only way we could change it would be if we set up miles more defensive and bored our way to a few 1-0's.

I think that would be a mistake (as we'd win f*** all doing that too with our squad). We may as well accentuate the positives and work out a way to score at least twice every game. Accept that if we score only once we probably aren't going to win the match, play to our strengths etc. It's funny, but I've found that once I've kind of accepted our shortcomings and are no longer surprised by them, the whole thing becomes much more bearable. 

Disagree. He will only lose his job if he doesn't make CL. The money is what the owners are going for. There are many reasons why managers are sacked after four games. I believe chief reason is over money including threat to getting relegated and hence loss of premier league tv money and failure to make top four and getting CL money.

If he keeps making top four but fails to win anything, I think he will keep his job. Just that you and I will get restless and hope someone who can win the league takes over him.

This !
He is the perfect front person for FSG.. reach top 4 on a budget while his personality and charisma makes him immune to criticism from the supporters that want more; you can see it on this forum too.. every user that wants to critique Klopp leads with a customary 'I love Klopp but' 'Klopp is world class but' 'He is a great coach but' so that the herd that kisses his and Fsg's ass won't jump him.

And if he doesn't sort out the defence he won't get ECL

Not wrong, but too early to say as of now. There's a lot of frustration on here after zero wins in three straight games. All of a sudden the hoff, arse and palace wins are forgotten.

Klopp needs a kick up his ass and better people around him as he is not addressing any of the defensive frailties and the people he has brought in to help sort it out on and off the pitch have not been up to the task

Not wrong, but too early to say as of now. There's a lot of frustration on here after zero wins in three straight games. All of a sudden the hoff, arse and palace wins are forgotten.

Agreed and part of the problem is that Jürgen came in part way through a season, he took us to two finals and then in his first full season he delivers CL footy. The problem being that I think people judge Jürgen's time here as much longer than it really is and I also think our manager is taking it in the neck from all angles for showing the loyalty he's always professed to show.

Jürgen is trying to do what those who'd seen him before suggested he would and that's try to coach players rather that simply buy xyz and be done with it. It's as he suggests "a different way", now that will be laughed at right now in terms of Lovren and Klavan but there are players who've shown real improvement under Jürgen and continue to do so. Players such as Trent/Woodburn etc will all be given the chance that most coaches would never dream of giving them and in the long run we will get huge benefits from it but the lack of patience from people right now, is honestly just a poor reflection on them and the way society has gone as a whole.

It's the now generation, everything has to be delivered on a plate for an audience of petulant kids who think for some reason they deserve to get it all given to them without any real effort and I must admit I find it repulsive. Show some patience, love what used to be great about the game, watching players come through and get better and better until we dominate the league with a team we've built, I can't express how good that would feel to knock all the oil rich cu*ts who are ripping the soul out of this game to sit on top and show them there is a way that their money can't reproduce. To do that though there will be moments where frustration will have to be swallowed and anger quelled.

We have the choice which way we go with this, for Jürgen it would be a simple trip back home to Germany to manage any club he would choose, for us the future would look an awful lot less bright in my opinion, for our club at least.

Agreed and part of the problem is that Jürgen came in part way through a season, he took us to two finals and then in his first full season he delivers CL footy. The problem being that I think people judge Jürgen's time here as much longer than it really is and I also think our manager is taking it in the neck from all angles for showing the loyalty he's always professed to show.

Jürgen is trying to do what those who'd seen him before suggested he would and that's try to coach players rather that simply buy xyz and be done with it. It's as he suggests "a different way", now that will be laughed at right now in terms of Lovren and Klavan but there are players who've shown real improvement under Jürgen and continue to do so. Players such as Trent/Woodburn etc will all be given the chance that most coaches would never dream of giving them and in the long run we will get huge benefits from it but the lack of patience from people right now, is honestly just a poor reflection on them and the way society has gone as a whole.

It's the now generation, everything has to be delivered on a plate for an audience of petulant kids who think for some reason they deserve to get it all given to them without any real effort and I must admit I find it repulsive. Show some patience, love what used to be great about the game, watching players come through and get better and better until we dominate the league with a team we've built, I can't express how good that would feel to knock all the oil rich cu*ts who are ripping the soul out of this game to sit on top and show them there is a way that their money can't reproduce. To do that though there will be moments where frustration will have to be swallowed and anger quelled.

We have the choice which way we go with this, for Jürgen it would be a simple trip back home to Germany to manage any club he would choose, for us the future would look an awful lot less bright in my opinion, for our club at least.

Lots of truth in that Luke.

Also hate the way people's critique of games are influenced by YouTube and games like FIFA / Pro-Ev etc.

Too many judging players on a highlights reel and the capability to make a lung bursting run or take a great free kick now and then.

No appreciation of positional disciple / shape or game intelligence.

Bertie is a great example for me. He's not re-born, he's just playing this season......he's always been capable of some bold runs forward.

Only singling him out as illustrative - he gets enough hammer

Not wrong, but too early to say as of now. There's a lot of frustration on here after zero wins in three straight games. All of a sudden the hoff, arse and palace wins are forgotten.

Hoffenheim and Arsenal wins do not make up for the fact we've only won four games this season, nor the fact that the reason behind that failure is the same problem we've had since he walked through the door. Neither is it helped by the same excuses he trots out at every press conference. His job is to win games. Win, the moaning stops. It really is that simple.

Citeh do look magnificent and I'm willing to write of last week,  not sure what would have happened if Sadio had stayed on.

But, I wouldn't like to play us if Jürgen can get a front 6 of Coutinho, Can, Lallana, Mane, Firmino or Sturridge and Salah. It's just so frustrating that we can't seem to field this front 6 on the pitch.

Agreed and part of the problem is that Jürgen came in part way through a season, he took us to two finals and then in his first full season he delivers CL footy. The problem being that I think people judge Jürgen's time here as much longer than it really is and I also think our manager is taking it in the neck from all angles for showing the loyalty he's always professed to show.

Jürgen is trying to do what those who'd seen him before suggested he would and that's try to coach players rather that simply buy xyz and be done with it. It's as he suggests "a different way", now that will be laughed at right now in terms of Lovren and Klavan but there are players who've shown real improvement under Jürgen and continue to do so. Players such as Trent/Woodburn etc will all be given the chance that most coaches would never dream of giving them and in the long run we will get huge benefits from it but the lack of patience from people right now, is honestly just a poor reflection on them and the way society has gone as a whole.

It's the now generation, everything has to be delivered on a plate for an audience of petulant kids who think for some reason they deserve to get it all given to them without any real effort and I must admit I find it repulsive. Show some patience, love what used to be great about the game, watching players come through and get better and better until we dominate the league with a team we've built, I can't express how good that would feel to knock all the oil rich cu*ts who are ripping the soul out of this game to sit on top and show them there is a way that their money can't reproduce. To do that though there will be moments where frustration will have to be swallowed and anger quelled.

We have the choice which way we go with this, for Jürgen it would be a simple trip back home to Germany to manage any club he would choose, for us the future would look an awful lot less bright in my opinion, for our club at least.

Luke, this is a great post, and the way most of us older generation would prefer it to be. (Me, not you.) What frustrates us though, is you can generally get a feel for a players quality by his consistency, or lack of it. When it's clear players are not up to the required standard, it's time to let them go and replace them with the expected quality. Shanks or Bob wouldn't have persevered with such inadequacies for more than two games in succession. Jürgen seems to think he can make something of these lads in our defence.
Pigs ear, silk purse comes to mind.

Klopp will only get fired if we drop to 9th or worse or if we don't make CL two seasons in a row. He's safe. They'd be dumb to cut him off after extending his contract, after chasing him for years, after seeing his project having some prospect (remember last year, beginning of the season?).

I hope FSG stands firm to Klopp and lets him have some down times.

Also don't forget: All fan issues are so obvious that an expert like Klopp most certainly will know about it which leads to the conclusion that there might be a dimension we don't see. For instance, many seem not to understand that Klopp likes to develop players instead of buying them. That explains why he's still hanging on Moreno - he thinks Moreno can get better by his own, but it takes time, time - I hope - he gets. We have waited so long, some more years won't kill us.

Luke, this is a great post, and the way most of us older generation would prefer it to be. (Me, not you.) What frustrates us though, is you can generally get a feel for a players quality by his consistency, or lack of it. When it's clear players are not up to the required standard, it's time to let them go and replace them with the expected quality. Shanks or Bob wouldn't have persevered with such inadequacies for more than two games in succession. Jürgen seems to think he can make something of these lads in our defence.
Pigs ear, silk purse comes to mind.

I get your point mate and Jürgen can't hold a candle to those greats yet so perhaps, most likely, they were just much better managers. I'd also say it was probably easier for us then to just go and pick and choose our targets, would VvD have really been held on to by Saints back then, nah I don't think so.

As much as people wave the "Jürgen can't fix the defence" flag, I would wave back that he sees a problem he thinks VvD reduces and is willing to wait for him. That's wrong for a lot of people who say, but we have to win it right now, in reality we don't, we want to but what we all really, really want is to win and then stay on top for a long, long time. That, from my perspective, is exactly what Jürgen is trying to build here. He's going after exact ingredients that he feels will make us the dominant side, he could be wrong, but given his track record and his clear knowledge I'm willing to give him the chance to prove himself right.

As for pigs ears and silk purses mate we'll have to wait and see. Many of us see quality in Lovren and Klavan, when they're not in the form they're in right now they can be very good players, if Jürgen could coax them into becoming those players on a consistent basis then they're not pig's ears at all but like you and perhaps Shanks and Bob, I wouldn't have the patience he does. I'd have been shopping for a 2nd and 3rd choice behind VvD in the summer but the least the man deserves is to see his plans come to fruition with the fans behind him in my opinion. The only problem is the moment Keita signed for next season and not this and VvD failed to materialise most of us knew this season would not be number 19 and I think that's what hurts an awful lot of the now generation.

https://twitter.com/redmysterio96/status/909407163340161024

Clear and concise.

Skanks won 4 - 0 against Everton.

Their manager has been in position in half the time, started last season playing that turgid stuff (as we all took the piss), but clearly built from the back, laid his foundation and added that defensive discipline to his team's system. While his team now look more devastating in attack.

Stark difference to us IMHO. We built from the front over a longer period, have looked good more often than not going forward but defensively (which includes midfield) we haven't improved, if anything we've gone backwards.

They've scored 16 and have conceded 2 = + 14 GD

We've scored 9 and have conceded 9 = 0 GD.

One team looks on the up in a shorter amount of time, the other is looking ominous.
 

Be careful Klopp there're lots of restless souls out there and their voice is getting louder by the day. Klopp has one of the slowest and weakest midfield around. Don't believe, go watch the goals conceded, it started from midfield.

Klopp would have to be responsible for the players we have now. He is the one that brought in those rubbish players and if he doesn't start to be ruthless and start selling he's heading BR's way.

He simply has too much faith in those underperformers or not good enough and collectively they're going to cost Klopp big time.

I am with Luke in giving Klopp plenty of time. Some championships are just viewed differently than others. When the New York Yankees won in 08 I remember the masses were just like "that title was truly bought". When the Kansas City Royals won the world series on the coat tails of a ton of young kids who had been in their farm system for over half a decade I remember feeling like it was truly earned on all fronts. I feel it started with the management, and then trickled all the way down to scouts, coaches, players, etc. I know most on here aren't baseball fans, but the Royals title was similar to Leicester winning the PL a few years back. Doesn't that title just feel more special than some of the ones Man U have bought over the years? I get it, in the end its about the titles, and who cares how you get them. But if we don't show patience with Jürgen we are back to square one again, but this time with a manger that isn't as sought after by players all around the world. Now with that said Jürgen has to do his part and evolve. We need to hire a defensive minded specialist who can come in here and work with Klopp on coaching the players on the squad and get more out of them. We also need to commitment from the management to continue to help us get in players we need for even more growth. I think they showed progress with how they handled the Keita signing. They tried plan A, and when it didn't work they went with a plan B and got him signed for next year. It shows that they are looking after the clubs best interest and making the most with what they are given. With some of the youngsters we have in the club the future looks bright, but like the Royals it may be a process. Do we need better CBs? Yes. Do we need to change the way we defend? Yes. But I also think we need Klopp and I am content with giving him time and seeing if we cant build something special here.