Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

All this talk of progress being made and I'm sitting here wondering where is this progress that everyone is talking about

Not having a go at anyone but if you could point it out to me I'd be really grateful but don't give me that ' we're on the right road' or 'when that player comes in' argument because the table doesn't deal in if's and but's and the reality is that we're 5th with the same leaky defence, in the same perennial battle for 4th and one of our best players being picked up by Barca.

Real progress would've been being out there battling it out with City for the title and I know this comes after a victory but I'm genuinely curious for other points of view.

Currently we are arguably the most devastating attacking team in the League BUT the defence needs work period. Mostly it needs money spending and plenty of it - on the right players......not just alternatives or partial upgrades on what we have.

Few facts just to illustrate: -

Fact 1: We’ve been in a perennial battle for 6-8th, not 4th. Last season was only our second in top 4 since 2008-9.

Fact 2: We’re in pole position to win our Champs League group and in touch with everybody except City.

Fact 3: The last time we got into the Champs League we ended the year out of the competition on our arses.

Fact 4: We ended 2014 (the last calendar season before Klopp) sitting on our worst League start / points total in 50 years - 26 after 19 games. We currently have 26 after 14.......

Fact 5: In May 2015 (year last time we played Stoke at their place before Klopp) we lost 6-1 to a poorer Stoke team than the one we beat last night.

He, his staff and the players need to do better to win the League........but (realistically) we weren’t / aren’t going to do that without much more significant investment than we currently get.

So overall yeh - I do think that’s progress. Mental huh - what am I thinking?! 

We are just about clinging on to being in contention for the top 4. And that's really been the height of it since City bought a place at the top table. Chelsea bought a place a few years earlier than City. Those two facts have pushed us down and almost out of the Top 4. We could of easily drifted down and it would've been even harder to hold on to talent if we hadn't scraped into the Champions League.

Its down to the owners to back up the manager with hard cash but we have to accept we are not going to pay £80m for anybody.

Klopp has been on to the catering team and ordered in a shed load of pies..

Although I believe Klopp is doing a fine enough job (some criticism notwithstanding, such as the goalkeeper situation and defence), I am really failing to get excited with this season.

This is not Klopp's fault - given what he has to work with, if he takes us to the UCL again in such a competitive scenario I think he'll have done very well.

It's just me, really, tired of having a 3rd position as likely the ceiling of our ambitions. I don't really see us getting close to Man City. This frustration adds up to years of relatively uneventful seasons and although I don't blame Klopp for them, I am not exactly very enthusiastic nowadays.

And despite someone saying that other clubs have been dropping points, that's not exactly true - the top 5 have only dropped points recently when playing against each other. The one exception is Tottenham, who've gone on a difficult run since spanking us. There's a reason why, despite a good run of results in the past 5 matches, we're still only one point above Burnley. Yay - apologies for my pessimism.

I'd love us to somehow compensate for that in Europe, but even then, in arguably the easiest group of all, we've made things much harder for us than they should have been. And given the lack of character and leadership, the inability to defend a lead under pressure, the recent failures in big games - I'd honestly be shocked if we went very far.

But then again, the knockout rounds are only in February and much can change until then. I do hope we have some fun in Europe to compensate for the boring life of a 3rd place hopeful.

Pretty much sums up how I feel.

My frustration is brought about by the lack of investment in problem areas. If a squad this brittle is capable of being in a battle for the top four, imagine if we bought players that could help solve our problems. We'd be clear of the chasing pack and up there with City.

So you're saying 5th, and out of the title race by November is tidy enough for the first 1/3 of a season? This above any other demonstrates how far our expectations as a club have fallen. No lad, win the next two is irrevent because it remains not good enough for the first 1/3 of the season for this club. With 1/3 of the season gone we should still be in the title race, not fourteen points off it, having conceeded half as many goals as we did in the entire of last season's campaign, and I maintain that if this was any one of our previous managers in their third season at the club, fans would be a lot less tollerent of our under performance.

It's all well and good giving it the 'we're LFC 2nd is nowhere' speech but we've only been in a Proper title challenge three times since we last won the bloody thing in 1990 and one of those (96-97 I think) we were never truthfully in it. Even under Rafa we only put together one run in 08-09. That's the reality of it.

And as for this season. I'd argue everybody is out of the race bar City. Achieving a 2nd consecutive champions league qualification for the first time in 9 years would be a start and is pretty much we can hope for this year. It's a bit grim but that's our reality. Get used to it with these owners if you haven't already.

Currently we are arguably the most devastating attacking team in the League BUT the defence needs work period. Mostly it needs money spending and plenty of it - on the right players......not just alternatives or partial upgrades on what we have.

Few facts just to illustrate: -

Fact 1: We’ve been in a perennial battle for 6-8th, not 4th. Last season was only our second in top 4 since 2008-9.

Fact 2: We’re in pole position to win our Champs League group and in touch with everybody except City.

Fact 3: The last time we got into the Champs League we ended the year out of the competition on our arses.

Fact 4: We ended 2014 (the last calendar season before Klopp) sitting on our worst League start / points total in 50 years - 26 after 19 games. We currently have 26 after 14.......

Fact 5: In May 2015 (year last time we played Stoke at their place before Klopp) we lost 6-1 to a poorer Stoke team than the one we beat last night.

He, his staff and the players need to do better to win the League........but (realistically) we weren’t / aren’t going to do that without much more significant investment than we currently get.

So overall yeh - I do think that’s progress. Mental huh - what am I thinking?! 

All you did was bring some of our worse situations to make our current one look good, the last one being by far the most laughable argument.. what is that supposed to mean We trashed Spurs at WHL in 13/14 but got trashed this season.. does that mean that we got worse by your logic ?

Oh and we're not 'arguably the most devastating attacking team in the League'.. City and United scored more than us and we're par with Arsenal.

All you did was bring some of our worse situations to make our current one look good, the last one being by far the most laughable argument.. what is that supposed to mean We trashed Spurs at WHL in 13/14 but got trashed this season.. does that mean that we got worse by your logic ?

Oh and we're not 'arguably the most devastating attacking team in the League'.. City and United scored more than us and we're par with Arsenal.

No - all it did was use simple facts to illustrate that you were howling at the moon.

Here’s the thing - I understand and share (some of) the frustrations. Where I get disappointed with some of the noise on here is how much people forget what a mess we were in at the end of BR’s time.

I said a week ago that this thread was becoming like the “Kenny Dalglish - Liverpool Manager thread” in the 2nd half of 2012.......I stand by that. To deny we’re in better shape than 2015 is a prime example of majoring on the angst and obscuring the bigger picture.

I think Klopp looks a tad weary. We know he hasn't been all that well, so lets hope he is getting enough help, delegates and that he is getting enough rest away from the game.

He was brave to do what he did today. Really thought Brighton would sniff blood. Fair play.

No - all it did was use simple facts to illustrate that you were howling at the moon.

Here’s the thing - I understand and share (some of) the frustrations. Where I get disappointed with some of the noise on here is how much people forget what a mess we were in at the end of BR’s time.

I said a week ago that this thread was becoming like the “Kenny Dalglish - Liverpool Manager thread” in the 2nd half of 2012.......I stand by that. To deny we’re in better shape than 2015 is a prime example of majoring on the angst and obscuring the bigger picture.

Attack wise we are so much better off, but defensively we are in tatters and it showed with the lineup today. We are in desperate need of a marquee CB pairing. I hope but wont hold my breath that this will get addressed in January.

Klopp is a nutter a back 3 of Can,Lovren and Gini 

One in the eye for those who think he doesn't have a plan B.

I think Klopp looks a tad weary. We know he hasn't been all that well, so lets hope he is getting enough help, delegates and that he is getting enough rest away from the game.

Probably been reading this thread

It's good to see Jürgen show a bit of tactical flexibility recently, we hadn't seen much of it during his first two seasons as it was very much the same formation, the same style of play and a certain approach to the game no matter the opposition.

This season

- We heard him talking about sitting deeper and hitting teams in the break. Good to hear because we have the perfect players to play this way.

- We haven't pressed the ball nearly as much, I think we will see more of that AFTER Christmas once the most difficult section of the season has been negotiated.

- Yesterday's switch to three at the back was encouraging to see, it's not that I want us to play that way but being able to change up for a particular game or mid-game is very important. More of the same please Jürgen.

It shows that the manager is still learning and adapting. It's encouraging. That's 16 points from 18. Long may it continue plus fingers crossed he is eyeing up some defensive reinforcements in the window.

So, since the 'crisis' that was Tottenham, in the league, we have taken 16 from a possible 18 points and scored 19 while conceding only 3. All while tinkering with systems and personnel against the type of sides that everybody always moans about us not beating.

For the first time in Klopp's reign I feel like I am in a period in which I have absolutely no idea what type of system or side we will put out next.

Fair play.

Boom!

Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom!

Boom!

Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom!

“Let me hear you say way oh, way oh”

That one? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN5YMS31n4c

For me yesterday Klopp, got 1 of 2 wrongly. I would play have played Can in defense in no time but I would have played Milner in left side of 3 defense not Wijnaldum. Milner had 'experience' of full side next to Lovren.

Wijnaldum would have offered more in midfield than Milner.

For me yesterday Klopp, got 1 of 2 wrongly. I would play have played Can in defense in no time but I would have played Milner in left side of 3 defense not Wijnaldum. Milner had 'experience' of full side next to Lovren.

Wijnaldum would have offered more in midfield than Milner.

 

5-1

Needs 34 pts out of the next 51 (17 league games) to overtake Rafa and have the best opening 100 league games I assume since Dalglish 1985.

Hope he can achieve it but doesn't give much leeway for draws.

Needs 34 pts out of the next 51 (17 league games) to overtake Rafa and have the best opening 100 league games I assume since Dalglish 1985.

Hope he can achieve it but doesn't give much leeway for draws.

So basically need to avoid 6 defeats or 9 draws or  combo thereof in the next 17 games........

Putting it like that seems eminently do-able.....?

So basically need to avoid 6 defeats or 9 draws or  combo thereof in the next 17 games........

Putting it like that seems eminently do-able.....?

Well its basically 2 points a game and we are a smidgen short of that so far this season.

Well its basically 2 points a game and we are a smidgen short of that so far this season.

Ah yep - true.