Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

Yea, 1-0 is not a score I enter too often into the prediction league

yes we either win by 3/4 or draw, the saving grace is we are not losing a lot

Here’s the thing - I understand and share (some of) the frustrations.

Where I get disappointed with some of the noise on here is how much people forget what a mess we were in at the end of BR’s time.

Lots of rotation but yet City are flying by only really rotating Aguero and Jesus. Likes of Silva, Sterling and KDB seem to be playing every game. Sterling's game is also very similar to Mane and Salah, in terms that he basis a lot of his play on the use of his pace.

Think all this rotation is starting to hamper us, we can't get into any rhythm. We get a win but then we go into the next game with 6 different players starting. I get we needed to manage the players better than last year around this time but this is getting ridiculous now. Play your strongest team, get the win early on and then look to take the key players off early.

Key words here being "seem to be playing every game". They don't actually. Sterling, Sane, Aguero and Jesus have all played less minutes in the league than Firmino and Salah for example. Coutinho and Mane less minutes due to injuries and suspensions and their rotation has more to do with both having been injured earlier on in the season / knocks rather than Klopp actually wanting to rotate them. If both had been fit, I'd guess that they would have played around the same amount of minutes as Firmino and Salah.

I'm guessing the numbers people are seeing with regards to squad changes are Premier League numbers? That would make sense. City have rotated a lot more in the CL. For example Silva has played only 75 minutes over their last three CL games while most of our front four have started / finished all of our last three CL games. For comparison, both Salah and Firmino started our last 3 CL games and played around 240 (give or take) minutes. So while Silva is playing almost every PL game, he has only played half the CL games.

Only exceptions for City are De Bruyne (who is one of the fittest players in the PL) and Fernandinho (due to a lack of suitable alternative in their squad). In defence City are very limited due to injuries (Kompany, Stones, Mendy) and he just hasn't been able to rotate there.

Of course us not being able to rotate in the CL was down to our own doing. Had we won against Sevilla, Klopp would've been able to rest our key players against Spartak and we likely wouldn't have seen as much rotation in the attacking side of things as we are seeing now.

Arsenal have no need to rotate in the league. They played a second / third string for all their Europa League games.

Spurs have indeed not rotated as much as we have and look at their form in the past month. Beaten by Arsenal and Leicester, draws against Watford and West Brom, 2 points out of 12. All of Eriksen, Alli and Kane have been / are struggling right now and it will probably get worse if Pochettino doesn't start rotating them more.

Same for the mancs, Lukaku for example has been used in every single game, he is going to pay the price for that at some point and he has been struggling too in the past 10 games. Same problem there in midfield if they want to rotate, the drop in quality from Matic and Pogba to Fellaini and Herrera is massive, far bigger than for example Can and Wijnaldum rotating with Henderson and Chamberlain.

Chelsea has also been rotating quite a bit. Less than us, but look at the key players that haven't been rotated as much: Morata and Kante. Both have suffered muscle injuries / back injuries. Those are injuries because they're playing too many games.

While I get that it's annoying to see many changes all the time, it'll hopefully pay off in the long run. No one was moaning about rotation when we were beating Maribor, Huddersfield, West-Ham, Brighton, Southampton, Spartak and Stoke by a combined total of 28 goals scored and only 2 conceded over all these games.

Even in the games we dropped points:
- Chelsea: rotated, were ahead, fluke goal
- Everton: rotated, were ahead, soft penalty
- West Brom: rotated, goal disallowed that probably should have stood

Yesterday's performance wasn't a good one by any means, but in both games we created plenty of chances to win both of them.

The problem with rotating is that you need players of a similar quality to those that you're resting. It's clear that we don't have a strong squad, and I'm afraid that falls at the feet of Jürgen.

I really hope he can find the right players to bring in to make us stronger, but I'm worried that he's too obsessed with not spending money to do that.

Again its hard to argue against this, but i will add that we are still yet in a building process so perhaps those higher quality players are imminent within the next window or two, remember it took a few seasons until his BvB side was looking like the finished article, in his eyes he sees keeping his players fresh throughout the entirety of the season will benefit us in the long run , that as maybe so i guess then that having a squad full of readymade replacements will afford him the ultimate squad, so therefore his rotating will keep all of his top players happy by giving them plenty of game time,

It is silly season in the prem at Crimbo where we play loads of games in a small period of time so i understand his rotating, the last thing we need is long term injuries to key players, its a balancing act and if he gets it right we will reap the benefits later in the season.

YNWA

He is a very very stubborn man and from his interviews it also appears that he is quite an insecure person, these are not qualities of great football managers, certainly not in the Prem. The reason he doesn't make a substitution before the 75th minute is because he refuses to admit he was wrong in the team selection, either that or he is f**king moron, take your pick. Yesterday for example it was obvious to everyone that we needed to make a change, if he'd brought on the Ox and Solanke in the 55th minute, given them 35 minutes plus maybe altered the formation a bit then I think we would have won that game with ease.
My view of Klopp is that when it works it is a beautiful thing and we play some magnificent football, but he has f**k all idea about how to set up a defence and he has f**k all concept of a plan B inside a game, I'd expect more for the money he is paid.

You're about as classic a case of "I see what I want to see and dismiss anything that doesn't suit my argument" as they come.

Wrong about the team selection or a f**king moron? How about neither? F**k all idea of how to set up a defence?

Our record since the Spurs game in the league:

8 games, 5 wins, 3 draws.
21 goals scored, conceded ONLY FOUR, two of them being some of the softest penalties you'll ever see 4 clean sheets in 8. Even yesterday, against a team we all feared would be dangerous on set pieces, we defended all of them (bar the short corner where we went to sleep for a second) very well. We have improved significantly on defending corners. Or does that not suit your argument of how "he doesn't know how to set up a defence"?

Want to add in the CL? 3 games, 2 wins, 1 draw. 13 goals scored, 3 conceded. 2 clean sheets.

F**k all concept of plan B in a game? Do you actually pay attention when watching a game? Or do you just have a look at the final score before you decide to come on here and moan? Was I dreaming when Klopp changed our 4-3-3 to a 4-4-2 or to a 4-4-1-1? Or when he played something similar to three at the back? Did you not see how Coutinho's, Salah's and Mane's position changed in the second half against West Brom? Is that not a plan B then? What is a plan B for you? Is it playing a taller, stronger striker, like Solanke, against a bus parking side like Everton for Klopp to only be told it was "the wrong time" to change his approach to a game and play him?

There's no need to change when you're actually creating chances, which we have done against both Everton and West Brom. Us only scoring one is down to poor finishing and decision making from Salah, Mane, Firmino and Solanke. Not down to how Klopp had us play.

How is it silly, has Klopp EVER changed tactics midway through a match, EVER made a sub before 75 mins, unless because of injury? Has he developed a killer strategy to combat bus parkers?
The man is stubborn, hence constantly playing Mignolet, and insecure, I refer you to the embarrassing Sky interview which was an almost textbook insecurity response.

Ever made a sub before 75 mins? Have a look at just our last 10 games. In 7 out of 10 games he made a substitution before the 70th minute. Again, do you watch our games? Or do you just forget what happens during them?

No he hasn't developed a "killer strategy", then again, bar City there isn't a single team in the Premier League consistently beating the bus parkers. All of Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal and the mancs have dropped several points to the likes of Burnley, West-Ham, West-Brom, Swansea, Stoke, Watford, ... Wenger has been in this league for over 20 years. Where's his "killer strategy" this season? Pochettino has been here for 4 years, twice as long as Klopp. What's his record this season against the bus parkers?

I said at the end of September and I'll say it again: we have improved against the bus parkers. In every single game (Burnley, Newcastle, Everton, West Brom mainly) we had at least two or three massive chances to score more goals or to win the game. Chances we weren't creating against the bus parkers last season when Coutinho resorted to shooting at will from anywhere on the pitch.

I wish Jürgen would pay less attention to the critics, he seems to be worrying about what others are saying either online or in the press. F**k em Jürgen.

We've won 7, drawn 3 of the last ten. Last 16 of the Champions League for the first time in nearly a decade and scrapping for top four. Happy if we can continue at this pace.

I'm sorry but there are some whingeing cu*ts in this thread.

I'm sorry but there are some whingeing cu*ts in this thread.

Right up with the Kop yelling shoooot at Lovren when there was no shot to be had or moaning at Karius to get the ball out quicker before he had even caught it out of the air.

Right up with the Kop yelling shoooot at Lovren when there was no shot to be had or moaning at Karius to get the ball out quicker before he had even caught it out of the air.

Being in the ground is not so different to being in the match thread, a lot of sh*te gets spouted in the heat of the moment. That's fine by me. It's the bull sh*t that gets spouted by people who have actually taken a moment to think about what they are saying that gets me.

Even in the games we dropped points:
- Chelsea: rotated, were ahead, fluke goal
- Everton: rotated, were ahead, soft penalty
- West Brom: rotated, goal disallowed that probably should have stood

Yesterday's performance wasn't a good one by any means, but in both games we created plenty of chances to win both of them.

That's not quite true for Everton though. We created 3 chances to win the game and none of them where once Salah had been removed. Everton equalised because of a soft penalty but that wasn't why we failed to win, that was all on Klopp's decision to remove our goal threat at 1-0 which in itself was a decision made out of a desire to rotate. Rotate by all means but having decided to play the player, rotation should only have come once victory was secured, and that's never at 1-0.

That's not quite true for Everton though. We created 3 chances to win the game and none of them where once Salah had been removed. Everton equalised because of a soft penalty but that wasn't why we failed to win, that was all on Klopp's decision to remove our goal threat at 1-0 which in itself was a decision made out of a desire to rotate. Rotate by all means but having decided to play the player, rotation should only have come once victory was secured, and that's never at 1-0.

Salah was removed because he felt a twing in his hammy...are you suggesting it was wrong to remove him from the match?

I hate this argument

It's not fit as in your or my levels of fitness, they'd run over us at 50%
It's how fit or fatigued they feel against their contempories

A fatiging professional at say 70% will not be at their best if an opponent is at 90%

We can say money this and money that but you could pay them a trillion quid a week or nothing and that fact still stands especially nowadays as the game is quicker and more reliant of fitness than ever before

Well how about you rearrange any fitness type training or minimize it and use those games for the fitness training. Make the player rest as much as possible inbetween?
If they usually train everyday, I'm sure that is going to consist of running weights or whatever. Just do that on the pitch. 2 times 90s minutes per week should easily be doable for fit young lads. The Milners might need a day off.

It's not like we're playing the CL every week. Over the Christmas period they should just do homework on opposition tactics and players while recuperating in a warm room.

Say they run 15 miles per game. Runners can do that every day plus more.
If we held the ball better and used it to control the game instead of running aound all the time then that would take the load off too.

Well how about you rearrange any fitness type training or minimize it and use those games for the fitness training. Make the player rest as much as possible inbetween?
If they usually train everyday, I'm sure that is going to consist of running weights or whatever. Just do that on the pitch. 2 times 90s minutes per week should easily be doable for fit young lads. The Milners might need a day off.

It's not like we're playing the CL every week. Over the Christmas period they should just do homework on opposition tactics and players while recuperating in a warm room.

Say they run 15 miles per game. Runners can do that every day plus more.
If we held the ball better and used it to control the game instead of running aound all the time then that would take the load off too.

 

Because comparing runners who just run at a constant speed for a set distance to footballers who have to sprint a lot, often have to change direction while running and football being a contact sport where you jump, tackle, ... does indeed hold up.

Training does not consist of "running" or "weights". Yes, they'll be in the fitness on the treadmill, on the bicycle or lifting some weights, but that's not to get in shape, it's to keep muscles moving / recovery sessions. The basis for the physical condition of players is laid during preseason. Not during the season.

Training between games is first and foremost recovery sessions, tactical training and other stuff. Has very little to do with players getting in shape physically.

And how much more / better do you want us to keep hold of the ball? We had 79% possession in the game against Everton and 71% in the game against West Brom.

Salah was removed because he felt a twing in his hammy...are you suggesting it was wrong to remove him from the match?

Of course I'm not but that's a moot point. It was evident from the kickoff that Solanke wasn't working, Robertson was crossing in balls for a non-existent target man to get his head on and Milner was all round sh*t in midfield. It was also evident that Everton had absolutely no interest in attacking and posed no threat to our midfield.

Salah was taken off on 67 Minutes but scored on 42 minutes. I'm suggesting that had Firmino come on for Solanke and Coutinho for either Milner or Robertson from the start of the second half then we would have scored the second goal before the 67th minute and actually been able to take Salah off earlier than we eventually did. Worst case scenario we'd have had all four on the pitch for 22 minutes.

Klopp didn't react with his substitutions fast enough because of unnecessary rest, and when he did finally make the substitutions he took the wrong players off. That's why we drew, not because of a soft penalty. Fair enough they might not have scored and the result would have remained the same, but given that Klopp would have been bolder, we'd not be having a discussion about his rotation policy.

I'm suggesting that had Firmino come on for Solanke and Coutinho for either Milner or Robertson from the start of the second half then we would have scored the second goal before the 67th minute and actually been able to take Salah off earlier than we eventually did. Worst case scenario we'd have had all four on the pitch for 22 minutes.

Good suggestion...although it is nothing but speculation on your part as the 4 were on the pitch for most of the night last night and couldn't do anything.

If's and but's and all that.

Because comparing runners who just run at a constant speed for a set distance to footballers who have to sprint a lot, often have to change direction while running and football being a contact sport where you jump, tackle, ... does indeed hold up.

Training does not consist of "running" or "weights". Yes, they'll be in the fitness on the treadmill, on the bicycle or lifting some weights, but that's not to get in shape, it's to keep muscles moving / recovery sessions. The basis for the physical condition of players is laid during preseason. Not during the season.

Training between games is first and foremost recovery sessions, tactical training and other stuff. Has very little to do with players getting in shape physically.

And how much more / better do you want us to keep hold of the ball? We had 79% possession in the game against Everton and 71% in the game against West Brom.

  Everton and West Brom came to park buses so they weren't looking to play footy but our work rate in the Everton match was really good to keep them from doing anything, they are a pretty sh*t team though as this season has shown. But we were running around wasting energy doing nothing really other than acting as scatty as Everton.

English footy though. tehnically it can look very sloppy. bts footy is hardly a contact sport, it's a shameful dive fest usually. If players do accidentally get bumps and knocks then by all means evaluate the severity and protect them from aggravating it obviously bloody heck.

We maybe just miss a littlbe bit of luck?

Watford 3 instead of 1,
Chelsea 3 instead of 1
Everton 3 instead of 1
WBA 3 instead of 1

...makes 8 more points which would give us 39 points and #2 in the league and everyone would name his kid after Jürgen. After I cool down from my rants after a bad game, this thought always comes to my mind and makes peace with the situation.

Good suggestion...although it is nothing but speculation on your part as the 4 were on the pitch for most of the night last night and couldn't do anything.

If's and but's and all that.

Exactly.

But lost on most people so it seems.

Look at city and Leinster city both seem play same team every week win league is drugs taking going on l serious

Where are the late winners
Saw a stat earlier that for the whole 2017 if we're not leading by the 73rd minute we don't win the game.. not a single late winner in a whole year.

People complaining of rotating are the same ones who will complain when the players legs fall off and Klopp is playing the 17 year olds like last year.

If a professional football player who is earning £100,000 plus per week cannot condition himself to exert himself for 90 minutes, two times a week, he should be decapitated and burned.

All this talk of players being tired pisses me right off. There are millions of people all over the world working regular 12 hour shifts for a pittance compared to these players and they just get on with it.

God help the fuckers if they had to play rugby, they'd probably die.

or compete in a tennis tournament or cycling. Footballers have a very very easy life.

You're about as classic a case of "I see what I want to see and dismiss anything that doesn't suit my argument" as they come.

Wrong about the team selection or a f**king moron? How about neither? F**k all idea of how to set up a defence?

Our record since the Spurs game in the league:

8 games, 5 wins, 3 draws.
21 goals scored, conceded ONLY FOUR, two of them being some of the softest penalties you'll ever see 4 clean sheets in 8. Even yesterday, against a team we all feared would be dangerous on set pieces, we defended all of them (bar the short corner where we went to sleep for a second) very well. We have improved significantly on defending corners. Or does that not suit your argument of how "he doesn't know how to set up a defence"?

Want to add in the CL? 3 games, 2 wins, 1 draw. 13 goals scored, 3 conceded. 2 clean sheets.

F**k all concept of plan B in a game? Do you actually pay attention when watching a game? Or do you just have a look at the final score before you decide to come on here and moan? Was I dreaming when Klopp changed our 4-3-3 to a 4-4-2 or to a 4-4-1-1? Or when he played something similar to three at the back? Did you not see how Coutinho's, Salah's and Mane's position changed in the second half against West Brom? Is that not a plan B then? What is a plan B for you? Is it playing a taller, stronger striker, like Solanke, against a bus parking side like Everton for Klopp to only be told it was "the wrong time" to change his approach to a game and play him?

There's no need to change when you're actually creating chances, which we have done against both Everton and West Brom. Us only scoring one is down to poor finishing and decision making from Salah, Mane, Firmino and Solanke. Not down to how Klopp had us play.

Ever made a sub before 75 mins? Have a look at just our last 10 games. In 7 out of 10 games he made a substitution before the 70th minute. Again, do you watch our games? Or do you just forget what happens during them?

No he hasn't developed a "killer strategy", then again, bar City there isn't a single team in the Premier League consistently beating the bus parkers. All of Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal and the mancs have dropped several points to the likes of Burnley, West-Ham, West-Brom, Swansea, Stoke, Watford, ... Wenger has been in this league for over 20 years. Where's his "killer strategy" this season? Pochettino has been here for 4 years, twice as long as Klopp. What's his record this season against the bus parkers?

I said at the end of September and I'll say it again: we have improved against the bus parkers. In every single game (Burnley, Newcastle, Everton, West Brom mainly) we had at least two or three massive chances to score more goals or to win the game. Chances we weren't creating against the bus parkers last season when Coutinho resorted to shooting at will from anywhere on the pitch.

I'll concede we have been better defensively of late but then again we have been playing weaker more defensive opposition, the one game against a good team we shipped in 3 goals in one half and went from a solid win to a hang on for a draw. Tell me how Klopp changed to Plan B against Sevilla? Would it not have perhaps made sense at half time to switch to a defensive system and see out the game?
BTW I really did not notice a huge tactical shift in the second half against West Brom but if there was one it didn't work as we created less in the second half than we did in the first. a big tactical shift would have been to go more direct with Solanke as a target man, its the kind of thing Manure do with Fellaini and it works more often than not.
regarding the subs you know damned well that Klopp almost always waits to long to make subs, ask yourself how often a sub makes any difference to the scoreline for us, we almost never score a late goal in the way that a Citeh, Manure or Arsenal do.

Because comparing runners who just run at a constant speed for a set distance to footballers who have to sprint a lot, often have to change direction while running and football being a contact sport where you jump, tackle, ... does indeed hold up.

Training does not consist of "running" or "weights". Yes, they'll be in the fitness on the treadmill, on the bicycle or lifting some weights, but that's not to get in shape, it's to keep muscles moving / recovery sessions. The basis for the physical condition of players is laid during preseason. Not during the season.

Training between games is first and foremost recovery sessions, tactical training and other stuff. Has very little to do with players getting in shape physically.

And how much more / better do you want us to keep hold of the ball? We had 79% possession in the game against Everton and 71% in the game against West Brom.

I wish training could also include some shooting practice, the entire team bar Salah desperately need to improve their accuracy, especially Captain fantastic Henderson who needs to be reminded he's not going for a drop goal in Rugby! ;-)