Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

You can be pragmatic AND positive. I feel like Jürgen can run us to the title next year whether he overhauls the squad or not. Not every one of his signings is going to work out, no manager's does. In fact I think it's a bit odd to be so high on our transfers but to not think we can push for the title. Bit hypocritical actually.

Nothing hypocritical in that whatsoever FL.

I think you're dumb if you think Jürgen could challenge for the title with this current squad. You're also dumb if you think every signing will work and again you're dumb if you think that a huge overhaul of a squad doesn't result in a few hiccups along the way.

So if you want to call what I consider not being dumb, hypocritical, go right ahead. You'll find that at the end of the day you're wrong, but just with the consistent poor use of the word hypocrisy you're also developing a consistency with that too.

I think what's actually going on (and it's sad) is that there are people already trying to position themselves as super fans so they can tell everyone "I told you so" when Jürgen inevitable gets us to the top again.

That might hold true if those people hadn't already told you that it would take probably 5 years and are still saying the same. That's just being consistent and not hypocritical, a strange concept for you to understand it seems.

Just enjoy the ride, don't worry about being right or wrong and be able to judge his tenure objectively. It's more fun that way anyway.

Here you forgot "run along with your own little crowd", "shout the buzz words", "pretend to know what you're talking about".

That's what's sad.

Or just as likely the told you so's will be out in force when he doesn't mate.

Quite possible, and no better of behavior in my opinion.

Oh and I don't like my support being called sad or am I being paranoid again?

Didn't have you specifically in mind, you seem to be fairly pragmatic from what I can tell.

Title contenders?........ I'm not going down that route looking at all the posts above. 

Sorry, you've already said it. I've noted it down in my little black book for future reference

Quite possible, and no better of behavior in my opinion.

Didn't have you specifically in mind, you seem to be fairly pragmatic from what I can tell.

Really?  I thought I was just bonkers 

Nothing hypocritical in that whatsoever FL.

I think you're dumb if you think Jürgen could challenge for the title with this current squad. You're also dumb if you think every signing will work and again you're dumb if you think that a huge overhaul of a squad doesn't result in a few hiccups along the way.

So if you want to call what I consider not being dumb, hypocritical, go right ahead. You'll find that at the end of the day you're wrong, but just with the consistent poor use of the word hypocrisy you're also developing a consistency with that too.

That might hold true if those people hadn't already told you that it would take probably 5 years and are still saying the same. That's just being consistent and not hypocritical, a strange concept for you to understand it seems.

Here you forgot "run along with your own little crowd", "shout the buzz words", "pretend to know what you're talking about".

That's what's sad.

wall of words is wordy

wall of words is wordy

Ok, simplified version:

You're dumb.

Really?  I thought I was just bonkers 

Well, you'd have to be a little bit to hang around here.

Nothing hypocritical in that whatsoever FL.

I think you're dumb if you think Jürgen could challenge for the title with this current squad. You're also dumb if you think every signing will work and again you're dumb if you think that a huge overhaul of a squad doesn't result in a few hiccups along the way.

So if you want to call what I consider not being dumb, hypocritical, go right ahead. You'll find that at the end of the day you're wrong, but just with the consistent poor use of the word hypocrisy you're also developing a consistency with that too.

That might hold true if those people hadn't already told you that it would take probably 5 years and are still saying the same. That's just being consistent and not hypocritical, a strange concept for you to understand it seems.

Here you forgot "run along with your own little crowd", "shout the buzz words", "pretend to know what you're talking about".

That's what's sad.

Come on Luke no need mate.

Lets just all settle for we all hope we win the league and if we do Saint's right and if we don't it's because we didn't buy enough quality players and Saint's right.

Come on Luke no need mate.

Every need and in my opinion, it was spot on, pretty much nail on the head to be honest 

Ok, simplified version:

You're dumb.

Finally a post truly representative of your level of maturity and intelligence.

Try simplifying more of your posts like that, saves JD some bandwidth. 

The only benefit of the prices I'm happy with is that it should, in theory, give Jürgen more ammunition for the positions he's struggling to fill.

My thoughts exactly.

Some people think we need a tweak in playing staff but I'm more in the major surgery camp.

I genuinely hope I'm wrong because it would make the return to success swifter which is all I care about.

Finally a post truly representative of your level of maturity and intelligence.

Try simplifying more of your posts like that, saves JD some bandwidth. 

Perhaps you're right, but much like my other post FL just my honest opinion.

No, I don't agree with the bit in bold I'm afraid. If we judge all Liverpool managers against the Claudio Ranieri at Leicester this season yardstick we'll be sacking our manager every year. I do though agree with the first part of your post, Jürgen should be judged the same as all other Liverpool managers. In all other cases of Liverpool managers who were CNH (credible Non Hodgson) they got three or four years grace without winning a trophy, then they got the bullet. That applied to Benitez, Rodgers etc. Now Jürgen (I feel at least) deserves IMHO four years minimum to try and win trophies. He may even be entitled to more than that as we are these days significantly outgunned in terms of transfer fees and wages we are prepared to pay.

Yep thsts fair enough - i wasnt suggesting that he get sacked if he didnt win it next year - i was just saying thatvthey hsve "overhauled" the top teams so we should expect the same from Klopp.

Pocchetino did the same in a similar position to us - anyway i think we are on the same page. Whatever happens its going to be a hell of a ride.

wall of words is wordy

 

Theres a handful of short paragraphs there - its nice to see someone actually typing out some reasoned points (even though they are all wrong).

Better stop there as i can tell your attention is beginning to drift...

Theres a handful of short paragraphs there - its nice to see someone actually typing out some reasoned points (even though they are all wrong).

Better stop there as i can tell your attention is beginning to drift...

This was a positive thread... 

There seems to be a lot of squirming and sand-shifting already on here.

People who say they are positive and yet aren't expecting much next season obviously don't hold Klopp in high regard they make out.

I mean, if you read the Mignolet thread or more aptly the Karius he's going to save us 15-20 pts already next season in some eyes.

Then, we have the fact that similar to Rodgers' 'nearly season' we have no European football, plus the added bonus of a better manager and a 'world class' one at that. Then I'm not surprised to see or hear people saying we should have a right old ding dong in the league next season.

Klopp has said many times that he's happy with the players here so he may only need to add a frittered bit of quality here or there. So, the bedding-in excuse could be a bit thin (depending on the transfers), if he's tweaking the team with higher caliber players here and there and not overhauling it with a majority then the excuses won't rinse, never mind wash.

He's had 3 quarters of a season, basically an entire league campaign that gave him a free pass - in other words it was written off so he could be accustomed to the squad and the state of play in England.

3 quarters of a season, a keeper who is going to save us 15 - 20 pts, no European football, a world class manager and perhaps no overhaul of the team with added quality in a few key positions,,,, I can see why people would like to see a title challenge.

I'm a bit more patient, even after the disappointment of putting all our eggs into the cup campaigns with F**k All to show for it, I would expect us, at the very least make top 4 next season. And I think it would be fair to say that if we finished out of the top four in the event of making it back into European's big time, then that would be a FAIL in my eyes, and then, his third season will be reaching Brendan territory...

You can be pragmatic AND positive. I feel like Jürgen can run us to the title next year whether he overhauls the squad or not. Not every one of his signings is going to work out, no manager's does. In fact I think it's a bit odd to be so high on our transfers but to not think we can push for the title. Bit hypocritical actually.


I think what's actually going on (and it's sad) is that there are people already trying to position themselves as super fans so they can tell everyone "I told you so" when Jürgen inevitable gets us to the top again.

Just enjoy the ride, don't worry about being right or wrong and be able to judge his tenure objectively. It's more fun that way anyway.

People make out they're positive after this signing and that interview or fart; they're making it known in almost every post and trying to ram it down everyone's throat (F***ing cringe worthy sh*t), then on the other hand they have no expectations from a world class manager. 

Hypocritical FL? I think yes.

 

I'm a bit more patient

And I think it would be fair to say that if we finished out of the top four in the event of making it back into European's big time, then that would be a FAIL in my eyes, and then, his third season will be reaching Brendan territory...

There seems to be a lot of squirming and sand-shifting already on here.

People who say they are positive and yet aren't expecting much next season obviously don't hold Klopp in high regard they make out.

I mean, if you read the Mignolet thread or more aptly the Karius he's going to save us 15-20 pts already next season in some eyes.

Then, we have the fact that similar to Rodgers' 'nearly season' we have no European football, plus the added bonus of a better manager and a 'world class' one at that. Then I'm not surprised to see or hear people saying we should have a right old ding dong in the league next season.

Klopp has said many times that he's happy with the players here so he may only need to add a frittered bit of quality here or there. So, the bedding-in excuse could be a bit thin (depending on the transfers), if he's tweaking the team with higher caliber players here and there and not overhauling it with a majority then the excuses won't rinse, never mind wash.

He's had 3 quarters of a season, basically an entire league campaign that gave him a free pass - in other words it was written off so he could be accustomed to the squad and the state of play in England.

3 quarters of a season, a keeper who is going to save us 15 - 20 pts, no European football, a world class manager and perhaps no overhaul of the team with added quality in a few key positions,,,, I can see why people would like to see a title challenge.

I'm a bit more patient, even after the disappointment of putting all our eggs into the cup campaigns with F**k All to show for it, I would expect us, at the very least make top 4 next season. And I think it would be fair to say that if we finished out of the top four in the event of making it back into European's big time, then that would be a FAIL in my eyes, and then, his third season will be reaching Brendan territory...

You don't have that much patience then mate if you think Jürgen will be in Brendan- esq level after 3 seasons,
I think we all know he'll be in a much better place by then and as a club too of course, unless of course you are still a doubter and non-believer.??


YNWA

As always there are contradictions, squirms, hypocrisy and double standards throughout this thread, and as always I do understand some peoples frustration with it all.

Yes it's a fair point which S@int and Beerbelly make here. If you truly believe Jürgen to be a World Class manager, if you are truly as excited about the new signings as you say you are, if you truly believe the players they are going to replace are as bad as you said they were, if you truly believe we would have finished much higher in the league if we'd have concentrated on it, if you truly believe that playing so many matches was a valid reason we struggled last season, then surely it follows that you expect us to do significantly better in the league next time around? This is particularly the case if that "bedding in" period which we afforded Jürgen is needed by the new managers at the other big clubs who have changed. I really can't understand the reluctance on the part of some to get "excited" and "positive" and all those other words they use to put other posters down all the time.

Me? Almost all of the first paragraph sums up exactly how I feel, EXCEPT, I don't think it's reasonable to expect a title challenge without signing PROVEN top quality players, particularly since that's exactly what everyone else will be doing. Hence I think a top four "challenge" will be a pretty good effort (and providing we get that, even if we finish 6th or something I think it's fair enough). Obviously though I would have thought finishing above West Ham and Southampton is a reasonable target to aim for.


Anyway here's my bullet point summary, so the next post doesn't open up with "So Mick, you've said all along you expect a title challenge next season".

1. I don't expect a title challenge next season. In fact it maybe a very long wait until we sign proven top quality players.

2. I aren't as excited as some about our new signings. That doesn't though mean that I "think they're sh!te" or that I "hope they fail". Nor am I saying "the only way you can win the league is if you spend more money than anyone else/if you buy Suarez and Messi".

3. I don't "hate Jürgen". I really don't like the owners though and their structure. Unless we give the manager (any manager) the tools, he has a mountain to climb.

You don't have that much patience then mate if you think Jürgen will be in Brendan- esq level after 3 seasons,
I think we all know he'll be in a much better place by then and as a club too of course, unless of course you are still a doubter and non-believer.??


YNWA

I was one of the more "patient" ones previously, I believe I will be one of the more patient ones this time mate, again, even more patient than the current crop of fan boi's on here currently!

That said, if we don't breach the CL (as clearly our pulling power is hampered without being in Europe's most prestigious cup), next season then in my book that would be a FAIL. Another season of underachieving. Does a fail, equate to wanting the manager gone?

I don't even expect a serious title challenge as I think that is a premature demand of Klopp. Though I can see why people would expect that with all the pro's of having Klopp as our manager.

However, IF he fails to reach CL without European football as a distraction, then he will be going into his third season with similar circumstances to that of Rodgers. And if we used, the pitchfork criteria on here to gauge Jürgen the same, then it wouldn't look great would it?

Make no bones about it, our Jürgen has a big season ahead of him. He's had a luxury not many managers are afforded at a big club where 7 months have already been written off - by that I mean no expectations of him. After Two transfer windows, three come December he really needs to start making inroads because the expectations should, and rightly so plant themselves on his back for the first time in his career as LFC manager.

Personally think we should be targeting top4 next season - obviously try to win a Cup, but with no Europe, need to finish higher in the table. Think the title would be a stretch. Man City, Utd and Chelsea all have new coaches, so will be in transition (even though will probably sign some top players) compared to us who have Jürgen in situe for the guts of a season - this an advantage for us. Arsenal, maybe they will look at it and think again they should be pushing for the title with settled manager/side. Spuds are stronger, Leicester can't be written off but have the distraction of the CL. We really should be finishing above WH and Saints.

Where BR fell down the most was in the signings imo. Jürgen has a better record there, and his signings so far have potential - am hoping for one or two more proven (as much as anyone can be 'proven') quality players mixed in to bring more consistency. Don't think its sharpening the knife to say what you expect, and tbh based on - the existing squad, the improvements we saw end of last season, the assumption that we will address some weaknessess in the summer, Jurgens experience, no European football - top4 is a reasonable expectation.