Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

Holy sh*t Belly, I'm a tad concerned about people Rodgering themselves over Brendan in the lower regions...   

Have I read that right?  Oh, Did I mention that I'm..... Dik-sex-lick? 😀 😀 😀 😀



YNWA

 

Not quite.

But it is funny. Someone lays down what they think is a reasonable gauntlet for Klopp this season ahead, and the darlings (voters included) get all prissy about that person's expectation and get the painters in. 

Or he could spend 300m have 7 transfer windows qualify once for the CL, no final appearance in any cup  and people will still be on here asking for him to be given more time 3 and a half years later.

I know you're going for sarcasm Dado but I doubt anyone has such low expectations of Jürgen and I think a top four finish is a very reasonable expectation from someone as talented as Jürgen.

If truth be told nearly winning the League in his second full season saved Rodgers in the minds of nearly everyone (you can read back if you don't recall) so the 'three years' part isn't really that accurate - there were few unwilling to give him more time. 

There were many, many, mitigating factors for Rodgers failure here. The one most popular, amongst people who don't enjoy thinking, was that he was "sh*te"... well Jürgen isn't sh*te so...

Why on earth is someone's expectation that we should finish top 4 laughable or too demanding?

Have more faith in the man FFS.

Here we go minimum requirements, targets, plans.

Just get on with watching, supporting the redmen and enjoying the football again.

Weirdo's!!

- 7-10 months of pre-planning, with a full pre-season within that (which is what was apparently lacking last season to do better with; our fitness and cohesion yada yada yada)
- Accustomed to the wind in England and everything else Blighty throws at him - Klopp that is
- No European football (so the excuse of too many games is scratched)
- 3 transfer windows by the end of the season
- Total control over signings (added to the fact Klopp has said he has a core group of players, and doesn't need a complete overhaul)
- New manager's at rival clubs who will be in the transition state we were last season
- A new number 1 goal keeper who's going to save us a gazillion points this time around
- Our own world class manager

4th should be the minimum requirement this season.

Anyone saying otherwise is seriously Brendan Rodgering themselves with low expectations, what you think?

I've already stated that, anything lower than 4th would be a major disappointment, not winning the league is failure; it's as simple as that 'Belly.

The only point I really disagree with in your list is:

- New manager's at rival clubs who will be in the transition state we were last season

I think joining in the summer and getting 'your' players in before the season starts is an enormous difference from joining 8 games into a league campaign with an already injury hit squad.

F**k sake we've got 10 more months of fans wrangling with each other before one group or another has been proved right.

What a sorry F***ing state of affairs supporting a club has become 

Can't understand what all the fuss is about. We have different expectations for this season but probably all have the same dream of a title win.

If Jürgen doesn't win the league I doubt any of the ones that expect a title challenge will be calling for his head, just as if we don't get top 4 those that are expecting that won't be calling for him to be sacked either.

For me we are getting closer and closer to having the squad that I think can challenge for the title so at the moment with the imminent signing of Wijnaldum I am delighted with the way things are going.

We have a top manager, which I think everyone agrees on, so I can't understand why people are surprised that a top manager knows just what is needed, although he did have me sweating a bit

I still think we need one more big signing but I'm confident Jürgen knows that too.


 

Can't understand what all the fuss is about. We have different expectations for this season but probably all have the same dream of a title win.

If Jürgen doesn't win the league I doubt any of the ones that expect a title challenge will be calling for his head, just as if we don't get top 4 those that are expecting that won't be calling for him to be sacked either.

For me we are getting closer and closer to having the squad that I think can challenge for the title so at the moment with the imminent signing of Wijnaldum I am delighted with the way things are going.

We have a top manager, which I think everyone agrees on, so I can't understand why people are surprised that a top manager knows just what is needed, although he did have me sweating a bit

I still think we need one more big signing but I'm confident Jürgen knows that too.


 

We better be signing a mothaflipping LB!!!

- 7-10 months of pre-planning, with a full pre-season within that (which is what was apparently lacking last season to do better with; our fitness and cohesion yada yada yada)
- Accustomed to the wind in England and everything else Blighty throws at him - Klopp that is
- No European football (so the excuse of too many games is scratched)
- 3 transfer windows by the end of the season
- Total control over signings (added to the fact Klopp has said he has a core group of players, and doesn't need a complete overhaul)
- New manager's at rival clubs who will be in the transition state we were last season
- A new number 1 goal keeper who's going to save us a gazillion points this time around
- Our own world class manager

4th should be the minimum requirement this season.

Anyone saying otherwise is seriously Brendan Rodgering themselves with low expectations, what you think?

I'm not going to be drawn on the rest of your post but want to pick up on this particular point that is continually overblown, not just by you but by many of us, myself included in the past. 'No Europe means greater chance of winning the league'.

Since the European Cup's re-branding to the Champions League in 1992, if we look at the league title winners, only once has the winner not done so without European Football of some kind - Leicester last season. In all other occasions since 92/93 season the winner played mid-week games and on four occasions, the winner won back-to-back titles across two or more seasons despite having European football to play mid-week.

There is no evidence to suggest being outside of Europe and thus not having mid-week games gives you a better chance. The year we were runners up, we were so not because of the lack of Europe, but rather because of the total collapse of United under Moyes' tactical genius and the dip in form of Spurs after they sold Bale and brought in a dozen players to replace him.

Similarly the reason Leicester won the title last year was because of Chelsea's complete collapse and the under performance of United, coupled with the annual capitulation from Arsenal. Only Spurs challenged them and Spurs were in the Europa League.

Conversely, having Europe increases off field revenues and attracts a higher calibre of player to the club which you can afford due to those higher revenues, unless of course, you're willing to do what United have done and pay them three hundred grand a week wages. We need to stop thinking of the lack of European football as an advantage. It's not, all the evidence points to it being a disadvantage.

Comedy gold from 2:45

https://youtu.be/0vw3W2pNzrA

I'm not going to be drawn on the rest of your post but want to pick up on this particular point that is continually overblown, not just by you but by many of us, myself included in the past. 'No Europe means greater chance of winning the league'.

Since the European Cup's re-branding to the Champions League in 1992, if we look at the league title winners, only once has the winner not done so without European Football of some kind - Leicester last season. In all other occasions since 92/93 season the winner played mid-week games and on four occasions, the winner won back-to-back titles across two or more seasons despite having European football to play mid-week.

There is no evidence to suggest being outside of Europe and thus not having mid-week games gives you a better chance. The year we were runners up, we were so not because of the lack of Europe, but rather because of the total collapse of United under Moyes' tactical genius and the dip in form of Spurs after they sold Bale and brought in a dozen players to replace him.

Similarly the reason Leicester won the title last year was because of Chelsea's complete collapse and the under performance of United, coupled with the annual capitulation from Arsenal. Only Spurs challenged them and Spurs were in the Europa League.

Conversely, having Europe increases off field revenues and attracts a higher calibre of player to the club which you can afford due to those higher revenues, unless of course, you're willing to do what United have done and pay them three hundred grand a week wages. We need to stop thinking of the lack of European football as an advantage. It's not, all the evidence points to it being a disadvantage.

I think it's that to compete in Europe and in the prem you need a big squad and quite a lot of quality players. Take European competition out of the equation and you can compete with a smaller squad in the league.

While teams like the mancs, Citeh and Chelsea have managed it in the past, they have had the squad and the money to do it, the simple truth is we don't and we would have to spread the money a little too thinly in having a larger squad.

Certainly no European competition is not a situation we want to see too often because as you rightfully say it does impact on the quality of player we can attract or afford, but there are benefits as well which we need to take full advantage of.

So for me a year out of Europe is a glass half full, any more than that and the glass starts to look empty.   
   

I'm not going to be drawn on the rest of your post but want to pick up on this particular point that is continually overblown, not just by you but by many of us, myself included in the past. 'No Europe means greater chance of winning the league'.

I didn't really want to get drawn into this post at all. However, I do feel it necessary to put a few things straight. Firstly, I didn't say "No Europe means greater chance of winning the league". Yet, there have been excuses creeping into the fore, after all the disappointment of losing the UEFA cup final posters tried to find some comfort in not winning it - the only one was... less competitive matches next (this) season which will allow Klopp more preparation and concentration time during the domestic campaign. And that is factually correct, it will give him much more time between matches to work with his squad.

Since the European Cup's re-branding to the Champions League in 1992, if we look at the league title winners, only once has the winner not done so without European Football of some kind - Leicester last season. In all other occasions since 92/93 season the winner played mid-week games and on four occasions, the winner won back-to-back titles across two or more seasons despite having European football to play mid-week.

It seems Leicester are not only the pioneers of underdog achievement whereby we can we try and emulate them with this buck to the trend in title challenging terms, we can also emulate them by doing it without having no European football!

Facetiousness aside, the biggest and best teams will always strive to challenge on multiple fronts though. Considering we currently aren't either I suggest we use the fact we will play less competitive games to our advantage as the evidence suggests...

There is no evidence to suggest being outside of Europe and thus not having mid-week games gives you a better chance. The year we were runners up, we were so not because of the lack of Europe, but rather because of the total collapse of United under Moyes' tactical genius and the dip in form of Spurs after they sold Bale and brought in a dozen players to replace him.

Similarly the reason Leicester won the title last year was because of Chelsea's complete collapse and the under performance of United, coupled with the annual capitulation from Arsenal. Only Spurs challenged them and Spurs were in the Europa League.

... contrary to your opinions above that certain teams 'collapsed' and allowed others to make inroads (this is usually what happens in all title challenges anyway, the excuses above are by no means limited to those two seasons as you've made out), both those instances above, plausibly show that Leicester and us finished where we did because we had no European football. No travelling time, more prep, training and recovery time etc. to worry about.

Conversely, having Europe increases off field revenues and attracts a higher calibre of player to the club which you can afford due to those higher revenues, unless of course, you're willing to do what United have done and pay them three hundred grand a week wages. We need to stop thinking of the lack of European football as an advantage. It's not, all the evidence points to it being a disadvantage.

I understand having European football increases revenue but like many have done with it, I can see the positive of not having it. Case in point - the "evidence" last season clearly showed we were only able to put all our eggs into the Europa Cup basket with the squad we had apparently. Our league form fell by the wayside as we struggled to juggle two serious competitions. Jürgen clearly made the call to win the Europa and go through the motions of the league as he felt that he had to sacrifice one to better the chances in the other.

- 7-10 months of pre-planning, with a full pre-season within that (which is what was apparently lacking last season to do better with; our fitness and cohesion yada yada yada)
- Accustomed to the wind in England and everything else Blighty throws at him - Klopp that is
- No European football (so the excuse of too many games is scratched)
- 3 transfer windows by the end of the season
- Total control over signings (added to the fact Klopp has said he has a core group of players, and doesn't need a complete overhaul)
- New manager's at rival clubs who will be in the transition state we were last season
- A new number 1 goal keeper who's going to save us a gazillion points this time around
- Our own world class manager

4th should be the minimum requirement this season.

Anyone saying otherwise is seriously Brendan Rodgering themselves with low expectations, what you think?

You're 100% right Beer.

I'd go even further and say I expect a title challenge, by that I mean with a shout of winning it for most of the season as my bare minimum.

I thought that Brendan underperformed given our squad.

Jürgen is a more experienced coach who has a track record of winning who has been hired to get more out of our players and deliver success.

That has to start this season.

I think it's that to compete in Europe and in the prem you need a big squad and quite a lot of quality players. Take European competition out of the equation and you can compete with a smaller squad in the league.

While teams like the mancs, Citeh and Chelsea have managed it in the past, they have had the squad and the money to do it, the simple truth is we don't and we would have to spread the money a little too thinly in having a larger squad.

Certainly no European competition is not a situation we want to see too often because as you rightfully say it does impact on the quality of player we can attract or afford, but there are benefits as well which we need to take full advantage of.

So for me a year out of Europe is a glass half full, any more than that and the glass starts to look empty.   
 

I wouldn't disagree with that but if we had Europe then we'd have a larger squad and therefore we wouldn't be disadvantaged. If you're struggling with two games a week because of the size of your squad that's down to your transfer policy, not European competitions.

I understand having European football increases revenue but like many have done with it, I can see the positive of not having it. Case in point - the "evidence" last season clearly showed we were only able to put all our eggs into the Europa Cup basket with the squad we had apparently. Our league form fell by the wayside as we struggled to juggle two serious competitions. Jürgen clearly made the call to win the Europa and go through the motions of the league as he felt that he had to sacrifice one to better the chances in the other.

Yes form was down across the league but Leicester won it with six points less than Chelsea did the year before, Arsenal coming second with 8 less points than City the year before. Chelsea dropped a whopping 37 points. United dropped 25 points in 2013/14 compared to the season before, with the winners City only three points less than United got the year before. By any definition of the term, that is a collapse. In general I agree with your post though. I think this season more than any in recent memory, is going to come down to the strength of the managers rather than the strength of the squads.

All I am saying is being in Europe and playing two matches a week should not be used as an excuse for failure. Something hopefully we can all agree on.

You're 100% right Beer.

I'd go even further and say I expect a title challenge, by that I mean with a shout of winning it for most of the season as my bare minimum.

I thought that Brendan underperformed given our squad.

Jürgen is a more experienced coach who has a track record of winning who has been hired to get more out of our players and deliver success.

That has to start this season.

Pretty forthright there regarding expectations.

I'm pretty sure it took him around 2-3 seasons to shape his teams before, but he also had less to spend, so maybe some swings and roundabouts there.

I'm not expecting us to pull up any tree's, but on the other hand, I am expecting us to improve quite significantly in our final league position.
I think this season is about consistency of performance as much as anything else, or it is for me anyway.

Pretty forthright there regarding expectations.

I'm pretty sure it took him around 2-3 seasons to shape his teams before, but he also had less to spend, so maybe some swings and roundabouts there.

I'm not expecting us to pull up any tree's, but on the other hand, I am expecting us to improve quite significantly in our final league position.
I think this season is about consistency of performance as much as anything else, or it is for me anyway.

Consistency has to improve mate and I'm certain it will and not being in Europe will help in that respect.

Good to see to back posting by the way.

Consistency has to improve mate and I'm certain it will and not being in Europe will help in that respect.

Good to see to back posting by the way.

Si, I actually wonder if being in Europe isn't a help to developing consistency? When playing these tougher games it gives you a chance to solidify your favorite 11 and really allows the team to develop some continuity.

I think not being in Europe is definately an advantage in the league. Last time it happened we almost won it, Leicester won it last time, it's a big plus. In actual fact, watch out for Mourinho completely tossing off the Europa League to put the Mancs in the same position. I've a hunch he won't try an inch in that.

I think not being in Europe is definately an advantage in the league. Last time it happened we almost won it, Leicester won it last time, it's a big plus. In actual fact, watch out for Mourinho completely tossing off the Europa League to put the Mancs in the same position. I've a hunch he won't try an inch in that.

It certainly gives the players more time to recover from niggling injuries,I look forward to our lads excelling in the league this season and making us all proud of our REDS.

I think not being in Europe is definately an advantage in the league. Last time it happened we almost won it, Leicester won it last time, it's a big plus. In actual fact, watch out for Mourinho completely tossing off the Europa League to put the Mancs in the same position. I've a hunch he won't try an inch in that.

Plus no European football for Chelsea!

One thing I'm excited about is to see how some of our senior players improve at the direction of Klopp. Players  like Firmino, Coutinho, Sturridge, Ings etc.....I think we are going to see improvement out of all of them in their first full pre-season and first full season under Jürgen. I've been skeptical of the quality of player we are signing, but as for our known quantities, I  think they are going to make a big jump this year.

One thing I'm excited about is to see how some of our senior players improve at the direction of Klopp. Players  like Firmino, Coutinho, Sturridge, Ings etc.....I think we are going to see improvement out of all of them in their first full pre-season and first full season under Jürgen. I've been skeptical of the quality of player we are signing, but as for our known quantities, I  think they are going to make a big jump this year.

Also how we play as a team, I for one expect to see a faster more fluid transition from defence to attack.

Jürgen said all year how he never really got a chance to actually train or coach the players due to the intensity of  the fixtures schedule.

I think we will seen him put his stamp on our style of play too.

I think not being in Europe is definately an advantage in the league. Last time it happened we almost won it, Leicester won it last time, it's a big plus. In actual fact, watch out for Mourinho completely tossing off the Europa League to put the Mancs in the same position. I've a hunch he won't try an inch in that.

I think this advantage is being over sold a little Mick. Every season there's an awful lot of teams in our league who don't have Europe and who don't over perform. I understand your point regarding our title challenge but we must remember we also had Luis Suarez and I think he was much more of an influence than no Europe was.

Leicester was a perfect storm and some incredible transfers. You don't just find a Mahrez and Kante when you don't get Europe, they still need to be bought and that is an extremely difficult task.

So while I do agree it's an advantage I think at this point it's become way over emphasised due to the continued highlighting of 2 extremely rare set of circumstances that had an awful lot more to do with other factors than just 'no European football'.

I think not being in Europe is definately an advantage in the league. Last time it happened we almost won it...

On the button Mick - us not being in Europe was without doubt sold as one 'excuse' for our great form back then. There's really no valid reason for the same rationale not to apply now, I suppose. 

Okay we don't have a Luis Suarez or Steven Gerrard, to make things easier, in the way only a top class player can but if our method of operation favours not signing a Suarez or Gerrard (but rather waiting for the 'new' one) then surely, if we are happy with that; we can't, (with a straight face anyhow), use that as an 'excuse' for failure.
 
Like s@int, I have every faith that Jürgen knows exactly what's required and, in having that faith, I just have to believe we'll do well - I mean; isn't that what having belief is?

It's actually a tad disconcerting when you see who the folk are who aren't just as confident in the man, as I am but hopefully they're wrong in their assessment.

"Oh ye of little faith" - Jesus H. Christ, circa 33 AD