Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

And during that settling period, it's fair to call a spade a spade - not too hard to grasp is it.

Or, do we ignore all talk of him and wait til he comes good before we share our opinions on him.

No, absolutely not. But opinions just after seeing him in his first 3 matches can't really tell much about him in the long run , or does it?

No, absolutely not. But opinions just after seeing him in his first 3 matches can't really tell much about him in the long run , or does it?

Of course not. Opinions tell us about him currently.

See if we're not careful, we end up dictating to people not only the subject matter it's OK to talk about, we even end up dictating WHEN it's OK to talk about it too. If WE think it'should "too early" to say whether or not someone us going to be any good, why not just not get involved in the discussion?

Me, I've never been afraid to voice an early opinion. Mine are:

Wijnaldum is going to be a top player for us, but so far has been quiet.

Mane is playing well bit IMHO isn'the quite as good as he's looked so far.

Origi isn't good enough.

Branaghan and Ojo aren't good enough.

Matip will be decent, but not spectacular.

Lallana will be our player of the season and get nominated in the players awards.

We'll win Saturday 4-0.

When Ian Rush joined us from Chester, guess what? he was pretty crap!

Agree totally here, the over reactions are, how can I put it? Pathetic? Sad? Lazy Supporting?

When Ian Rush signed from Chester he was in the reserves and scored 5 goals in his first 4 reserve matches,as you say he was pretty crap.I disagree with your description and wish we had a centre forward with his scoring ability.

No, absolutely not. But opinions just after seeing him in his first 3 matches can't really tell much about him in the long run , or does it?

Using that logic then we can't criticise Morenos start to the season either because he could start playing well at any moment and prove everyone wrong.

I don't really see anyone slating Wijnaldum either. I do see people questioning the purchase (myself included) because I really don't see what he offers our midfield that we didn't already have.

Was he brought in to replace Joe Allen? In which case he may prove to be a slight improvement. Or was he brought in as a CAM? In which case you have to ask why is that because our best attacking midfielder is being forced to play wide left.

There's no harm in asking questions and so far Wijnaldum has shown me nothing to show he is a good signing and even less so to show he was a necessary signing.

Of course not. Opinions tell us about him currently.

I am not sure as to what the "current" opinions about him is going to tell us how good or bad a signing he will turn out to be. One present example of that would be Origi.

I am not sure as to what the "current" opinions about him is going to tell us how good or bad a signing he will turn out to be. One present example of that would be Origi.

So when should people start setting up player threads to discuss their opinions on players? Do we have to wait until their first full season is over or only when they've left the club?

All this infighting is really not helping us on the forum. I have been reluctant to come here because all we are doing is sniping at each other. Quite frankly I can't remember this kind of bickering even when Rodgers took over. Klopp has only been in charge for a year (well not even that yet).

Klopp said I want to turn the doubters into believers in his 1st press conference. It takes time to do this. He is not the one to win the league in his 1st season and then get sacked the 3rd (someone we know down the East Lancs road). Do we really just want to win the league and then it goes to pot? Perhaps, some of us (including me) have been waiting for the title so long that we throw all our rational thoughts out of the window and just want a title.

All Klopp is saying is that wait and see how we do before you hang us from the rafters. He is not the one to spend millions of pounds on 1 player. He buys players that he thinks that he needs for the team. This is a team game after all. He is not the one to buy Pogba and wait for the title to come to Liverpool.

Give him time and he will deliver the goods but if we constantly interfere with the process then we will not get there. We keep harping on about LB & DM but in Klopp's eye's LB is fine (or he will buy someone in future). He doesn't play with 'DM' as we know it. He is building a foundation that Rodgers never could and was always trying to build every season (& still no title). Let us wait and give the one of the best manager's in the world to build a foundation and then add players that we wants. He has not in the past bought mega stars and will not buy mega stars in the future.

I say give our team a chance and support them and more importantly the manager (& his staff). This season is going to be the learning curve for them all. We narrowing missed out for Europe last season. Would have got on Klopp's back if we had qualified for the CL? Damn right NOT. So, give the man a chance.

I hope we win Pl this season but I think we will (hopefully) make top 4 (step in the right direction). That would be an amazing season in my eye.

Anyway, enough of my lecturing. As you were.  Sorry, it is a long post but I would just like to support the team thru the season.

YNWA.

Using that logic then we can't criticise Morenos start to the season either because he could start playing well at any moment and prove everyone wrong.

I don't really see anyone slating Wijnaldum either. I do see people questioning the purchase (myself included) because I really don't see what he offers our midfield that we didn't already have.

Was he brought in to replace Joe Allen? In which case he may prove to be a slight improvement. Or was he brought in as a CAM? In which case you have to ask why is that because our best attacking midfielder is being forced to play wide left.

There's no harm in asking questions and so far Wijnaldum has shown me nothing to show he is a good signing and even less so to show he was a necessary signing.

See, you are applying the logic in a wrong sense. Wijnaldum has been here for like 1 and half months? While Moreno is here for almost 2 years. He is well acustomated to his team mates. While on the other hand , Wijnaldum is here for quite a short time, so he may take some time to settle with his new team mates.  Criticism is completely fine, but you have to take into the account that he is still a new signing who is getting used to play with his new team mates.

I am not sure as to what the "current" opinions about him is going to tell us how good or bad a signing he will turn out to be. One present example of that would be Origi.

They're not predictions about how good he'll be, they're just opinions about what he's doing and offering currently.

I don't see what the problem is.

Maybe, as somebody else alluded, we should knock all the praise Mane has garnered thus far (in 3 games) on the head, as they are not going to tell us how good or bad a signing he might be in 12 months time. 

Houllier,Rafa,Kenny,Klopp...

All winners & deserve my trust...

Woy & Rodgers were not & don't as LFC managers..

Agree.

Woy Wodgers.  Klippity Klopp. 

Just messin about .

Obviously it'll be Brendan Rodgers' fault.

how do you get that from my post then.

F***ing hell, give your head a spin if you equate Rodgers with Hodgson.

My bad....Woy has won more

All this infighting is really not helping us on the forum.
I have been reluctant to come here because all we are doing is sniping at each other.
Quite frankly I can't remember this kind of bickering even when Rodgers took over.
YNWA.

All the ladies with the knitting needles clicking and clacking away waiting for the heads to fall into the executioners basket.

Nothing better to do .
It always rises during international breaks and the summer. No games to keep 'em occupied.

I can remember the Brendanistas bickering about Rodgers  ...... when he was on the way out .

See if we're not careful, we end up dictating to people not only the subject matter it's OK to talk about, we even end up dictating WHEN it's OK to talk about it too. If WE think it'should "too early" to say whether or not someone us going to be any good, why not just not get involved in the discussion?

Me, I've never been afraid to voice an early opinion. Mine are:

Wijnaldum is going to be a top player for us, but so far has been quiet.

Mane is playing well bit IMHO isn'the quite as good as he's looked so far.

Origi isn't good enough.

Branaghan and Ojo aren't good enough.

Matip will be decent, but not spectacular.

Lallana will be our player of the season and get nominated in the players awards.

We'll win Saturday 4-0.

Woah !

Incoming ...   Tin Hat time Mick .

My bad....Woy has won more

You whinged and whined the other day that we had no divine right to be winners; and that wasn't what it was all about anymore - after someone had pointed out to you Klopp failed in two major finals with us. Well in fact, he's failed in five now, serial runner-up in fact.

But I digress, when speaking of Klopp and FSG, 'challenging' was your aim.

Then, in the next breath you take a swipe at Rodgers for not winning anything, even though he came closest to winning the league than any other manager since '90.

You have an unsavoury penchant to contradict yourself an awful lot, and in the process make yourself look like a f**king silly tw*t.

Oh, here's your quote in all it's glory...

I thought this club was not only about winning trophies but challenging too?..

Do we have a birth right to win all before us? No.

I'd rather participate in a challenge than not at all.

 

See if we're not careful, we end up dictating to people not only the subject matter it's OK to talk about, we even end up dictating WHEN it's OK to talk about it too. If WE think it'should "too early" to say whether or not someone us going to be any good, why not just not get involved in the discussion?

Me, I've never been afraid to voice an early opinion. Mine are:

Wijnaldum is going to be a top player for us, but so far has been quiet.

Mane is playing well bit IMHO isn'the quite as good as he's looked so far.

Origi isn't good enough.

Branaghan and Ojo aren't good enough.

Matip will be decent, but not spectacular.

Lallana will be our player of the season and get nominated in the players awards.

We'll win Saturday 4-0.

Here's the thing 'Mick, all of these players are professional footballers.
They are skilled and talented beyond anything we can grasp, have been playing for years coming up through the various ranks, and are part of a team playing in one of the most competitive leagues around.
Some will take time to settle, some won't.
Some are youngsters, still learning their trade, but have made the breakthrough to 1st team football at an early age.

To say that any of them are sh*t is beyond comprehension.
Had a bad game? Fine, discuss away.
Good attacker, but not defensively sound? Have at it.
Made a mistake? Fine, but it's a team game, and usually a whole host of mistakes have led to that one moment, and it's usually a scapegoat that gets picked out. (A good example being Moreno, who gave away a pen, people saying he was out of position, but not mentioning Lallana giving the ball away in the first place).
Don't agree with the managers selection? Fine as well, but pointless unless you've been on the training ground with him all week and seen what he has.

Every single one of these players is talented as F**k, otherwise they wouldn't have got this far.
The question then becomes one of mentality, or as I put it "what's between their ears", and that's the difference between making it or not at LFC, and having not made it, stepping down to a club where they are more comfortable.

So, we get these posters saying "player X is F***ing sh*t, he's a c**t, he's a w**ker" etc etc and it's absolute F***ing nonsense.

We want people to get behind the manager, but don't mind personal abuse being thrown at the players?
And I don't mean terrace banter; the abuse here that some players get is way over the top, and for the most part nonsense.

Klopp said I want to turn the doubters into believers in his 1st press conference. It takes time to do this.

Exactly right it does, so why are all of the "already believers" jumping on the so called doubters telling them to believe right away? 

All Klopp is saying is that wait and see how we do before you hang us from the rafters. He is not the one to spend millions of pounds on 1 player. He buys players that he thinks that he needs for the team. This is a team game after all. He is not the one to buy Pogba and wait for the title to come to Liverpool.

I don't see one person hanging anyone from any rafters (at least anyone that wasn't already strung up....errrr....Moreno).

Give him time and he will deliver the goods but if we constantly interfere with the process then we will not get there.

Who has advocating not giving him time and how exactly can we "interfere". I wasn't aware that anything we said on this forum actually had any impact on what went on at Melwood or on the pitch.

We keep harping on about LB & DM but in Klopp's eye's LB is fine (or he will buy someone in future). He doesn't play with 'DM' as we know it. He is building a foundation that Rodgers never could and was always trying to build every season (& still no title). Let us wait and give the one of the best manager's in the world to build a foundation and then add players that we wants. He has not in the past bought mega stars and will not buy mega stars in the future.

Manager's change over time, plenty of evidence to show that  Klopp doesn't just "build" players, in fact did we not break the club record buying Mane? 

I say give our team a chance and support them and more importantly the manager (& his staff). This season is going to be the learning curve for them all. We narrowing missed out for Europe last season. Would have got on Klopp's back if we had qualified for the CL? Damn right NOT. So, give the man a chance.

So maybe the question becomes, what does it mean to "support" the team. Do we have to  eat s**t and call it lasagna? Is that supporting? Or is supporting rooting for the team when they are on the field and hoping beyond hope that they play up  to standard and give their all? Is supporting mean being blind to obvious areas of need or improvement? Does it mean not discussing your opinions about where we are going right and we were are going wrong?

Anyway, enough of my lecturing. As you were.  Sorry, it is a long post but I would just like to support the team thru the season.

YNWA.

See that's  the think, I believe all of us are going to support the team through the entire season...just because  people are critical of how players are  playing, how managers are managing and how owners are owning, doesn't mean we aren't  going to support the club.

I don't understand why it  has to be one or the other. Why can't we be critical at times WHILE we are supporting the team? 

think the technical term now is "doing a Vaz".

Was it 'jim'll fix it' in your days?...

on the flip side people are biggin up Mane are they equally at fault?

Moreno's first season, one of his first games, he scores a cracker.
Some start banging on about how brilliant he is.
The same people are now saying he's sh*t.

I said at the time it was far too early to judge, and it's the same with any player after only a few games.

Fact; you can't judge a player until he's had at least one full season.

So Mane has had a good start.
Great, I'm happy for him and the team, and hope he continues the same way, but you can bet your house that as soon as he has a dip in form the usual suspects will be calling him sh*t.

Moreno's first season, one of his first games, he scores a cracker.
Some start banging on about how brilliant he is.
The same people are now saying he's sh*t.

I said at the time it was far too early to judge, and it's the same with any player after only a few games.

Fact; you can't judge a player until he's had at least one full season.

So Mane has had a good start.
Great, I'm happy for him and the team, and hope he continues the same way, but you can bet your house that as soon as he has a dip in form the usual suspects will be calling him sh*t.

Who are the "usual suspects". Just so we know who to look out for. Is there a list somewhere I can check?

My bad....Woy has won more

Sorry but anyone who puts Rodgers on as low a pedestal as Hodgson is just either really really stupid or knows nothing about football.

Nobody is saying he's great, but I think it's a shame for a manager who did all he could and nearly won us the league to be thrown in with a chump who mercilessly threw us fans under the bus and licked Fergie arse constantly. You can disagree all you like about what he said on footballing matters but he never once resorted to the derogatory rhetoric of Hodgson, neither has he done so since being sacked and becoming Celtic manager.

There is absolutely no rationale behind ever putting a Liverpool manager under the same bracket as Hodgson. It's an insult to the football club and really trivialises the time just how bad a state we were in under Hodgson.

Sorry but anyone who puts Rodgers on as low a pedestal as Hodgson is just either really really stupid or knows nothing about football.

Nobody is saying he's great, but I think it's a shame for a manager who did all he could and nearly won us the league to be thrown in with a chump who mercilessly threw us fans under the bus and licked Fergie arse constantly. You can disagree all you like about what he said on footballing matters but he never once resorted to the derogatory rhetoric of Hodgson, neither has he done so since being sacked and becoming Celtic manager.

There is absolutely no rationale behind ever putting a Liverpool manager under the same bracket as Hodgson. It's an insult to the football club and really trivialises the time just how bad a state we were in under Hodgson.

People underestimate what a monumental, conniving arsehole Hodgson was. Any tw*t who comes into Anfield on his first day in the job and challenges journalists questions regarding the Anfield atmosphere by saying 'Old Trafford matches it on its day' deserve to be strapped, feathered and tarred to the flagpole outside the stadium. The silly moron then failed to defend one of his own players amidst a stream of vitriol from Ferguson on the grounds that auld Fergie was a mate of his. And that's not even scraping the surface of his monumental acts of twattery he conducted during his short pathetic stay here. With greater perspective of his reign as the years go by, I really get an even greater sense of what a cluster F**k of a manager he was.

Wot a c**t.