Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

In simple terms ... in my opinion ...

1. Our goalkeepers are not of the quality befitting a top side looking to win trophies.

2. Our defence is not of the quality of a team looking to win trophies ... even if the personel is not the best you can at least work hard on the training ground ... coach them ... mould them into a well oiled unit that knows eachothers farts from 30 yards away ... but we look more disorganised and rudderless than ever.

3. The defensive midfield part of our team infront of the said back 4 is not good enough which makes our defensive problems worse. This is why i suggested that at times we could use a 4-2-1-3 (coutinho being the 1 behind the 3) ... and limit the full backs ... to make the best of what we have and give us more protection to try and manage games better because despite these 3 points ...

4. Our attack is the dogs bo**cks. But even our attack cannot hide the flaws in this team over a season.

7 competitive games played so far. 13 goals conceeded already. Not arsed about 10 men and other excuses. You cannot carry on like that and expect success.

Which is bizzare for a man who plyed his trade as a defender

Indeed but the solution is so glaringly obvious, just hire a defensive coach to take care of that side of things. If I was the owner I would be imposing that on Jürgen, no argument, no discussion. Jürgen's the boss and looks over the team but he has a coach under him who is 100% in charge of the defence. If Jürgen doesn't accept that then it has to be bye bye because without sorting out this defence we will never win the Prem or CL.

In simple terms ... in my opinion ...

1. Our goalkeepers are not of the quality befitting a top side looking to win trophies.

2. Our defence is not of the quality of a team looking to win trophies ... even if the personel is not the best you can at least work hard on the training ground ... coach them ... mould them into a well oiled unit that knows eachothers farts from 30 yards away ... but we look more disorganised and rudderless than ever.

3. The defensive midfield part of our team infront of the said back 4 is not good enough which makes our defensive problems worse. This is why i suggested that at times we could use a 4-2-1-3 (coutinho being the 1 behind the 3) ... and limit the full backs ... to make the best of what we have and give us more protection to try and manage games better because despite these 3 points ...

4. Our attack is the dogs bo**cks. But even our attack cannot hide the flaws in this team over a season.

7 competitive games played so far. 13 goals conceeded already. Not arsed about 10 men and other excuses. You cannot carry on like that and expect success.

I actually think the goalies are ok, not top class, but certainly good enough. I think a lot of the pressure comes from the system we play and that when we play as open as we do. When you do that the CB's and DM have to be 100% top notch players, super organised and disciplined, we just don't have that at the moment and instead of buying more attackers we need to break the bank and get that defensive core unit in place, I'd be budgeting £150 million on that area, if we do that well, then we win the league.

Perspective people.

10 men got pumped 5-0 at City in a game we should have been ahead in.

We drew a Champs League game we should have won but lost no ground in the group.

May 2015 we lose 6-1 to Stoke - that's a crisis. To suggest we haven't progressed as one or two have started to is ludicrous.

We pretty much all agree the defence isn't right - so does the boss. He has his blind spots like all managers do.

I get the frustration - Rome want built in a day......and it certainly wasn't built by committee so avoiding that fate means it might take longer.

I like Jürgen ... i want him to do well ... but be needs to start sorting out our weaknesses ... because they are undermining everything.

Yea, and just on that, think most people discussing the defensive situation are not saying he needs to sort this quick, or is gone. Though can see that's how some are twisting it.

We pretty much all agree the defence isn't right - so does the boss. He has his blind spots like all managers do.

I don't think he does necessarily.
When he is questioned about it it's usually like 'uff not this again what are you talking about?' He'll then go on to say it's not about this about or that it's about concentration or such like. Well Jürgen if your players can't concentrate for 90 minutes you have a problem pal but it's more fundamental.
Look at the urgency with which we press the ball if we think it will allow us to get on the front foot. This urgency is lacking if it's simply a case of doing so to blunt an attack or prevent a goal. That is a mentality issue, the team has too many front foot players and Klopps solution to this is to sign AOC for £40M, it defies belief

I don't think he does necessarily.
When he is questioned about it it's usually like 'uff not this again what are you talking about?' He'll then go on to say it's not about this about or that it's about concentration or such like. Well Jürgen if your players can't concentrate for 90 minutes you have a problem pal but it's more fundamental.
Look at the urgency with which we press the ball if we think it will allow us to get on the front foot. This urgency is lacking if it's simply a case of doing so to blunt an attack or prevent a goal. That is a mentality issue, the team has too many front foot players and Klopps solution to this is to sign AOC for £40M, it defies belief

He consistently says we have issues and not good enough - the difference is he doesn't think one player here or there changes that. 

Don't confuse the issues - AOC has nothing to do with the CB situation it just made sense to bolster midfield and wide position to cover Sadio/Mo.

Look here's the thing - we'd all have done something different in the window and yes I would have went for another CB but he seems set on VVD and I get why so......longer term if we believe that's a goer I can (reluctantly) live with that.

As I've said before though - even that for me is as much about possession control as pure defending. He sees that as a collective team responsibility and his philosophy is that the more we control the position on the field the better our defensive record will get.

Each to their own - we all get pissed off and frustrated. I just think last weekend distorts the view.

That doesn't mean I think the defence is good enough long term - Migs, Moreno and Lovren simply aren't and the midfield aren't giving enough protection.

For me the window has closed and I don't see the point bleating now. it's over to the boss and more importantly the players. How do you "coach" the first goal out of the players? Answer - you work on Can and the rest in the build up because there's not a coach in the world can legislate for Dejan's error.

Perspective people.

10 men got pumped 5-0 at City in a game we should have been ahead in.

May 2015 we lose 6-1 to Stoke - that's a crisis.

And you are on about perspective?

The Stoke game had nothing at stake, it was not a crisis. The City game ended on 36 minutes. What happened afterwards can and should be, dismissed.

Yes people are concerned about the defence, they should be. But some like Dietmar Hamann - who state that we have made no progress - have lost their marbles.

We have played one game in the European Cup group. We won our first game in it against Debrecen and Ludogorets, and didn't get out of the group. It's a 8 month long slog, not all done and dusted after one game. You never make accurate judgements after one game, be it a player, coach, or official. We have got to two cup finals and the European Cup group phase in the past two years. Despite our defensive issues and how "easy" we are to score against, we have kept 4 successive home league clean sheets, and have lost two games in 6 months. That is perspective for you.

And you are on about perspective?

The Stoke game had nothing at stake, it was not a crisis. The City game ended on 36 minutes. What happened afterwards can and should be, dismissed.

How often do you see teams losing a player and then closing ranks making it very difficult for the opposing team to score? We didn't do this because we can't, team full of headless chickens

The Stoke game had nothing at stake, it was not a crisis.

Actually, the fact that we had nothing at stake at that time is a crisis in itself.
Add to the fact that it was Gerrard's last game in a Liverpool shirt.
And, we lost to Stoke 6-1.. That is a crisis even if we lose to Madrid/Barcelona. I mean, 6-1 to Stoke City. That is insulting in a pre-season game, let alone, a competitive game.

I remember being laughed out of the room for suggesting it wasn't as easy as it seems to improve on Lovren for example. Yet Klopp says exactly that and even admits looking at players several posters on here thought could do the job. Apparently, countless of hours watching them made him decide otherwise. It was a good interview and it shows the kind of man he is. It's sad that most fans treat players as if they were numbers these days. Luckily enough, he does see them as humans, humans who can improve by training them. I believe in that process.

And f**k me, Klopp doesn't know how to set up a defence? Our team is one of the best around at defending as a unit. We're one of the best teams around in keeping the opposition out of our own box, in limiting the amount of shots they have. Do we concede too many goals from the shots we do allow? We sure do. That is not down to the system we're playing though, as Klopp says and Luke has pointed out  a few times before, it's down to these things:

1. Communication
2. Concentration
3. Tracking runners

Are these things down to the system? They're small mistakes by individuals. Was De Boer at fault because Lee wasn't concentrated and gave that bad backpass? Is Klopp at fault, is his system at fault because Lovren misses a clearance? All these things, the mistakes our players make, are down to these things. A few examples:

Watford's second goal: switch off, don't track the runner (Henderson and Can)
Watford's third goal: Wijnaldum fails to clear it
Hoffenheim away goal: Trent switches off and doesn't play to the whistle
Hoffenheim home first goal: Poor pass by Henderson, everyone out of position
Sevilla first goal: Lovren fails to clear it
Sevilla second goal: Can switches off and doesn't track the runner

Those are just a few examples. They have nothing to do with the system or Klopp being able to set up a defence. They are individual mistakes, mistakes that can be avoided by training and work on the training pitch. Our team's average age is also very young, people also seem to forget that. They still have a few years to go before most of them reach peak fitness and age. We're going to see many more mistakes this season, but I don't really mind. Klopp will keep improving us and the players.

On the players, do you reckon all the defensive players we have are up to 'premier league challenging' ability? There is some debate about a few. Not all. Look at DeGea, Courtois and others - better than both our keepers ? etc
If guys *KEEP* making individual errors (over years) then do you not have to look at replacing them with players who are less error prone? We were promised a big summer improvement in quality, and it just hasn't materialised at the back. Klopp obviously thinks he can improve on Lovren if he wants to sign VVD.
On coaching,  would all hope they have been working hard on 1, 2 ,3 (and more) for the past couple of years, but over that time very little has changed at the back, the old frailties are STILL there.
So whatever about the odd one or two guys will start the Klopp clock ticking, don't see anything wrong with discussing the weaknesses in defense and what we can do about it *THIS* season (given the window is done, and we generally don't use the Jan window). You have to hope Jürgen and staff are.

He consistently says we have issues and not good enough - the difference is he doesn't think one player here or there changes that. 

Don't confuse the issues - AOC has nothing to do with the CB situation it just made sense to bolster midfield and wide position to cover Sadio/Mo.

Look here's the thing - we'd all have done something different in the window and yes I would have went for another CB but he seems set on VVD and I get why so......longer term if we believe that's a goer I can (reluctantly) live with that.

As I've said before though - even that for me is as much about possession control as pure defending. He sees that as a collective team responsibility and his philosophy is that the more we control the position on the field the better our defensive record will get.

Each to their own - we all get pissed off and frustrated. I just think last weekend distorts the view.

That doesn't mean I think the defence is good enough long term - Migs, Moreno and Lovren simply aren't and the midfield aren't giving enough protection.

For me the window has closed and I don't see the point bleating now. it's over to the boss and more importantly the players. How do you "coach" the first goal out of the players? Answer - you work on Can and the rest in the build up because there's not a coach in the world can legislate for Dejan's error.

You know what, he maybe right Scotia one player wouldn't solve our issues but who would be against an upgrade on a player like Mignolet, Lovren or Henderson even?

Let's digress, put aside our weak spine for a moment and run with 'a better player won't change our defensive situation'.

You then fallback and expose the defensive system of Klopp. Now, if he has see "500 million videos of players" like he says he has (figuratively speaking of course), who are no better than VVD and/or Lovren then the onus comes back onto him to coach his way out of this predicament.

We can stop bleating about the window as you would like, but that emphasis shifts back onto what Klopp is now doing to shore up this defensive system. And from here it's looking like he's not doing a great deal, it's got to be said.

I think Scottbot nailed it a while back, it's our general approach where we throw too many bodies forward either ahead of the ball or in line with it. It's the WHOLE system that is totally unbalanced in favour of the attacking system. And we haven't even gotten onto set pieces yet. Somebody else mentioned it was like a Kevin Keegan side. More cavalier than tactically astute. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for a world class manage that, when your side's style is compared to that of Keegan's Newcastle. Entertainer yes, but Klopp and his side need to be much more than entertainers.

His charisma and passion is second to none and like all good Reds I hope my manager succeeds. So it pains me to see any shift in mood.

The nice thing is; some of the Reds who gave neither Kenny or Brendan time and patience are demanding patience this time round so there may be hope. But...

Mark my words; a lot of the people who turned on Kenny, (then Brendan), will turn on Jürgen just as quick. At least they will be consistent, I suppose.

You know what, he maybe right Scotia one player wouldn't solve our issues but who would be against an upgrade on a player like Mignolet, Lovren or Henderson even?

Let's digress, put aside our weak spine for a moment and run with 'a better player won't change our defensive situation'.

You then fallback and expose the defensive system of Klopp. Now, if he has see "500 million videos of players" like he says he has (figuratively speaking of course), who are no better than VVD and/or Lovren then the onus comes back onto him to coach his way out of this predicament.

We can stop bleating about the window as you would like, but that emphasis shifts back onto what Klopp is now doing to shore up this defensive system. And from here it's looking like he's not doing a great deal, it's got to be said.

I think Scottbot nailed it a while back, it's our general approach where we throw too many bodies forward either ahead of the ball or in line with it. It's the WHOLE system that is totally unbalanced in favour of the attacking system. And we haven't even gotten onto set pieces yet. Somebody else mentioned it was like a Kevin Keegan side. More cavalier than tactically astute. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for a world class manage that, when your side's style is compared to that of Keegan's Newcastle. Entertainer yes, but Klopp and his side need to be much more than entertainers.

Lots to agree with there Belly.

I think I just see it slightly differently - he believes the way to win football matches is to aggressively control the playing area (less concerned re possession).

We can debate his tactical nous all we like - I actually think he's quite progressive and absolutely prepared to overlaid areas of the pitch and imbalance the side. That doesn't mean I'm not tearing my hair out because of the way we defend at times......

You pays your money and takes your choice - as I've said before we ain't ever gonna be "1-0 to the Arsenal".

The defence is troubling - but even with VVD or whomever he's gonna set up aggressively and rely on individuals to make good decisions.

I'm not trying to tell anybody how to view I just think it's missing the point to challenge the approach unless you accept that the attacking play will suffer too.

That's his philosophy - you buy in or you don't.

For me I reckon we're about 60% to where he wants to go. Naby and VVD will help but even then I reckon that's 75% - 80%.

How often do you see teams losing a player and then closing ranks making it very difficult for the opposing team to score? We didn't do this because we can't, team full of headless chickens

How often do we lose games by that scoreline? In those circumstances? There was a game of football at City for 36 minutes, when the scoreline was a more accurate reflection of both sides current abilities. We had a non event after that.

Regarding Stoke, our fate was already sealed whether we won or not. When there was something at stake, we won 1-0 there three months later.

As regards players of "league winning ability", its all relative. Leicester won the league on a combination of bargains, freebies, loan deals, and ex-non league players. We would be fuming if that's what we were buying. But you don't need to blow your budget on someone to head a ball away or clear the ball into Row Z, they either can do it or they can't, basic stuff.

But if you're going back to perspective, we've lost one game with 11 players in 6 months. It may not be perfect, but some of the "no progress" group are utterly hysterical.

Lots to agree with there Belly.

I think I just see it slightly differently - he believes the way to win football matches is to aggressively control the playing area (less concerned re possession).

We can debate his tactical nous all we like - I actually think he's quite progressive and absolutely prepared to overlaid areas of the pitch and imbalance the side. That doesn't mean I'm not tearing my hair out because of the way we defend at times......

You pays your money and takes your choice - as I've said before we ain't ever gonna be "1-0 to the Arsenal".

The defence is troubling - but even with VVD or whomever he's gonna set up aggressively and rely on individuals to make good decisions.

I'm not trying to tell anybody how to view I just think it's missing the point to challenge the approach unless you accept that the attacking play will suffer too.

That's his philosophy - you buy in or you don't.

For me I reckon we're about 60% to where he wants to go. Naby and VVD will help but even then I reckon that's 75% - 80%.

Good post.

If what you say is true and it does look to be pretty much spot on then I'd have to question the personnel (the players we know who don't do that system justice), used to take on that "progressive" football.

Which also leads to an inflexible/flexible/stubborn question on Jürgen's behalf. If he only has 60% of what he finally wants, wouldn't he be better off to tweak his system to suit his players until he gets to that 80% number?

Good post.

If what you say is true and it does look to be pretty much spot on then I'd have to question the personnel (the players we know who don't do that system justice), used to take on that "progressive" football.

Which also leads to an inflexible/flexible/stubborn question on Jürgen's behalf. If he only has 60% of what he finally wants, wouldn't he be better off to tweak his system to suit his players until he gets to that 80% number?

Which is what brings me to the "pays your money and takes your choice".....

Do you want that compromise that makes us harder to beat but less threatening or......

For what it's worth I think Wednesday was more about a failure to kill off the game and be clinical enough than the collective switch-off that led to the second.

That goal should have counted for nothing......like the 3 Hoff goals.

Now ideally - and eventually - we get both

People seem to forget all too easily how far we've come since Klopp took over from Rodgers. There was a picture posted recently of the team that was playing the Real Madrid game. Just compare the two squads. Our current one is full of young, talented, quality players. It's a work in progress and we're getting awfully close to the finished product. Sadly enough, the words 'patience' and 'time' aren't words most people want to hear anymore.

Klopp is here to build something and he started two years ago, all the way down from the academy up to the coaching staff. He brought in some of the world's best dietitians, physical coaches, ... The results are there for everyone to see: we're one of the fittest teams I've ever seen. He only just started his second full season here, bringing us back to the CL in his first full season. That alone, given the squad he had and the injuries he had to deal with, is a bloody miracle. Has he used the transfer windows to his full advantage? Possibly not. Though seeing as he's here for the longterm, I'd rather him wait and get the player he wants than bring in a short term solution. That solves nothing long term.

The only thing missing from the current team, is its spine and due to different reasons and circumstances, he is yet to bring in the players for his spine. Van Dijk and Keita would make a massive difference to the stability of the team. Looking at a spine of Karius (yes, I believe he'll be a good goalkeeper) - Van Dijk - Keita - Firmino is pretty promising. Surround them with quality in the likes of Lallana, Mane, Salah, Matip, Coutinho, ... And those are the makings of a brilliant team.

I remember being laughed out of the room for suggesting it wasn't as easy as it seems to improve on Lovren for example. Yet Klopp says exactly that and even admits looking at players several posters on here thought could do the job. Apparently, countless of hours watching them made him decide otherwise. It was a good interview and it shows the kind of man he is. It's sad that most fans treat players as if they were numbers these days. Luckily enough, he does see them as humans, humans who can improve by training them. I believe in that process.

And f**k me, Klopp doesn't know how to set up a defence? Our team is one of the best around at defending as a unit. We're one of the best teams around in keeping the opposition out of our own box, in limiting the amount of shots they have. Do we concede too many goals from the shots we do allow? We sure do. That is not down to the system we're playing though, as Klopp says and Luke has pointed out  a few times before, it's down to these things:

1. Communication
2. Concentration
3. Tracking runners

Are these things down to the system? They're small mistakes by individuals. Was De Boer at fault because Lee wasn't concentrated and gave that bad backpass? Is Klopp at fault, is his system at fault because Lovren misses a clearance? All these things, the mistakes our players make, are down to these things. A few examples:

Watford's second goal: switch off, don't track the runner (Henderson and Can)
Watford's third goal: Wijnaldum fails to clear it
Hoffenheim away goal: Trent switches off and doesn't play to the whistle
Hoffenheim home first goal: Poor pass by Henderson, everyone out of position
Sevilla first goal: Lovren fails to clear it
Sevilla second goal: Can switches off and doesn't track the runner

Those are just a few examples. They have nothing to do with the system or Klopp being able to set up a defence. They are individual mistakes, mistakes that can be avoided by training and work on the training pitch. Our team's average age is also very young, people also seem to forget that. They still have a few years to go before most of them reach peak fitness and age. We're going to see many more mistakes this season, but I don't really mind. Klopp will keep improving us and the players.

The fact that some idiots are already coming out with "he has to do this, he has to improve that, bla bla bla or he'll be gone" is absolutely ridiculous. The day that the mass gets the upper hand and manages to get Klopp out, will be the day I stop believing.

Oh and one more thing, 99% of the pundits should shut their f**king mouth, they haven't got a clue what they're on about and are still stuck in the 90's and 00's. Times have changed, football has changed. They can f**k off.

F***ing this all day,week, and year.

There has been steady progress since Jürgen took over not going to bash the "TPM" or anyone but 2 cup finals, CL football in 2 and a bit seasons is evidence enough the man knows what he's doing.

The defence is troubling - but even with VVD or whomever he's gonna set up aggressively and rely on individuals to make good decisions.

I'm not trying to tell anybody how to view I just think it's missing the point to challenge the approach unless you accept that the attacking play will suffer too.

But surely (as in all walks of life) there are individuals who make those "good descisions" more consistenty than others. For you and me it's Robertson before Moreno; for others it's VvD before Lovren.

So... it surely follows that, with better players, making better decisions; the defence can and will get better without the attacking play suffering AND we can still set up aggressively?

No need for anyone to accept any compromise mate.

The truth is that Jürgen can effect change to personnel without any change of philosophy. 😕

Zonal marking is the biggest issue we have defensively.
If I know you are zonal marking defending a corner of a free kick, I'm gonna get the taker to target a 'zone', and I'm gonna have three or four attackers blast into that area, and target that one player marking that zone. By going in mob handed, the defender has little chance, and his co defenders can't get close to help him out due to the three or four attackers around him.
So how do you counter that ?
You F***ing can't !
Pick a man each, and counter his run, if four go to one area, then eight go there, 50-50 chance of winning the ball, not a 20% chance !
 Simples!

But surely (as in all walks of life) there are individuals who make those "good descisions" more consistenty than others. For you and me it's Robertson before Moreno; for others it's VvD before Lovren.

So... it surely follows that, with better players, making better decisions; the defence can and will get better without the attacking play suffering AND we can still set up aggressively?

No need for anyone to accept any compromise mate.

The truth is that Jürgen can affect change to personnel without any change of philosophy. 😕

Agreed - but Robertson aside - there's no material player to player improvement in that defence. Clyne maybe - but his final ball is worse than Bertie's offensively.

So we're stuck with what we've got till January and relying on him and Buvac to effect that change to these individuals. That's because - as we both state - it's unlikely he'll suddenly set up differently to screen the defence (other perhaps than in the odd European away leg).

Does that make him principled? inspired? limited? stubborn? arrogant? Maybe all of 'em or none.....

Are there CBs out there that could've improved us as well as VVD? Of course there are - on that I think he's just posturing to protect what he has OR screening for the fact he's prepared to wait (like Naby) and believes VVD is a matter of time.

I'd like a goalie and a 2nd CB at the same time by the way!

For now though - it's what we have and that probably means leveraging the strength and trying to improve (not mitigate / offset) the weakness. So we'd best get used to the taste of bitter almonds on the finger nails

I disagree, the goals we conceded were nothing to do with quality and totally about concentration. Does Lovren have the quality to kick a football, clearly he does, the fact he didn't was far more down to concentration than anything else.

Does Can have the ability to cover for Henderson when he decides to leave the space, of course he does and it was the fact he wasn't switched on at this moment rather than talent/quality which cost us. So I think the boss is absolutely spot on there, but the problem is that this concentration lapse isn't a one off and isn't a simple fix going on both Can and Lovren's past history.

Sitting on our hands is a little too far as we did buy Robertson and we also clearly made an approach (albeit illegal) for VvD. I do agree that it's far more likely the defence will cost him the job than the attack though, that much seems obvious.

Agreed and it looks a mistake in my book at the moment.

I'm not a VvD expert but he is Saint's captain and that's what we need, a leader. Someone who communicates and more than anything someone who dominates opposition players. Our players are too passive, from what I've seen of VvD he does dominate players and communicate so to me it's a good choice if you can get him, which we couldn't. Getting nobody is definitely going to be the on going theme until January, that was clear the moment the window shut to be fair.

I actually think we have less weaknesses than people are crying about. Ignore City for a moment and we've been ahead in all our matches only to be sucker punched against Watford and Sevilla. To me there's an overreaction to how 'bad' we are at the moment and someone posted how teams get on with 10 men against better teams and it didn't look good for anyone, so to lose Mane that early was always going to end in a loss imo. Sure 5-0 looks awful and it was an awful result but judging it on the 11v11 part of the game and I thought we had the better of it and given our record against the top 6 aside from that I'm willing to bet that it was an abnormality due to the 10 men more than anything else.

As for winning nothing, I agree our consistency isn't there and the players we have (Henderson/Can/Lovren/Klavan/Gini especially) are far too consistent with their inconsistencies to expect that to change any time soon. I believe we need Keita and VvD before we truly become title winners and not just contenders. Cup competitions are a bit of an oddity, who knows in the FA and League cup, they may fall on our good days and we'll get one but the CL we simply don't have the quality yet to beat a Bayern/Real/PSG.

Any need for threats, we've shown clear progress year on year and it's a little early to see where we are right now. In my opinion without Coutinho and Lallana we've still managed to look a real force going forward and expect that only to improve. Defensively there's work to do, as everyone can see.

If you want to use City as a benchmark, watch the first 37 mins or whatever before Mane goes off, if you want to judge our coach on 1 game when we were down to 10 men then go for it, but that's brainless imo. You've got countless other matches to judge him on and so far he's doing a fine job as all the results will show.

Could be right, but you're asking for our weakest part to become our strongest. For 1 and 2 goals to get the job done, right now I disagree, I think our best bet is meet fire with fire as our fire is far stronger. Sitting in a 4-2-3-1 with Henderson and Can as the cover just makes us look a poor side imo. We have bags of quality in this team that we use well most of the time, but we have weaknesses and trying to turn your weaknesses into your strengths while weakening your own strengths seems counterproductive to me.

It's been our achilles heel for the longest time and I actually do think we've become much better at the first ball, but the second and third we do concede far too many from.

Strange one this, because although we have conceded quite a few goals I don't think this is the case when we talk about the volume of chances we give away. However, we do concede far too high a proportion of the chances that are created against us and if that's what you mean then it's an absolute fact.

Edit: Top interview from the boss here if you want him to explain some of the above:

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/defiant-Jürgen-klopp-hits-back-13628060?service=responsive

I agree with most everything that you have said here, but what you did not touch on was "Decision Making" and with Lovren, and especially Moreno it is, on the whole; the decisions that they make that is the real problem. both tend to dive in trying to win balls that are not there to be won, or position themselves to attempt to cut balls out when they should instead be one or two steps behind the attacker defending the space that the attacker will attempted to turn into...
Not every ball is there to be won. Something that Lovren and Moreno have yet to learn ....

To me; Moreno reminds me of Glen Johnson... Great going forward, but can not defend   

I get your point Aussie and ultimately there will come a time when people say "enough" but in my opinion we shouldn't even be on the first step towards uttering that phrase and I'll explain why.

In Brendan's nearly season we were scintillating in attack and pretty hopeless in defence, but this was lauded as a great achievement and as close as we've come in blah blah blah. People suggested it was down to certain players rather than the manager why we got there but whatever side of that debate you sit you can't argue that we all enjoyed it thoroughly, the chase, the almost, ok ultimately agonising defeat but it was fun and how football 'should' be played.

Now Brendan took that team and that style and threw it out of the window, turning scintillating football in tired old lump and hope footy, with Benteke isolated, Firmino sidelined and frankly the most pathetic transfer situation I've ever witnessed.

So what has changed and how have we progressed? We've gone to two finals, a semi-final, re-established ourselves in the CL and just taken a point off our hardest opponents in the group when we really should have won. We've gone from dour football to heavy metal football but rather than revel in the quality of our attacking play we're all moping around like it's doomed because the boss hasn't solved the defensive woes.

He's re-established our brand of footy to, quite frankly, the most entertaining to watch in the league. We have a transfer system in place that clearly backs the boss, targets were identified by him and the targets he wanted were pushed for. The lines coming out from FSG and Jürgen are one and the same. A coaching staff that appear like vital cogs in a well oiled machine, the academy producing talent and that talent being given a real chance and a real future at the club. So many things are right yet we focus on the one negative, it's honestly insulting to what he's achieved so far.

All this talk of "the boss better sort it or his days are numbered" really grates, sure if we were languishing in 8th or 9th and playing football without any sign of getting better but we're not. Back the man, don't let the media and our petty focus on the negative drive the narrative, show appreciation for the positives he's brought to the club rather than act like a spoilt, entitled child (not you, more us in general) who expects the title to be somehow delivered with perfection rather than the odd bump in the road.

This man is gold dust, appreciate him while he's here because I bet by the time he leaves you'll be gutted he's gone.

everything you speak of is true luke, But Klopp still needs Identify and sought the problems out that need soughing out otherwise he will never become a truly "great" Liverpool manager and Liverpool will have only fleeting successes and never any thing that is sustained...

It is all great when we come up against team that are open and allow us to play, but where our problems lie is when we meet teams that sit back and shut up shop looking to hit us on the counter. Now add that to a poor defense, and a dodge goal keeper and we drop points we we should not have, and when it comes to the top five clubs it is the difference between 4th place and Champions League and 5th place and the Europa League.... Sought out our defensive woes