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      Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

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      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13915: Sep 24, 2017 12:55:38 pm
      Tired of people making veiled ultimatums about Klopp’s shelf life. He may need to make some improvements but good grief there aren’t any other managers I’d rather have right now. And as much as I may get frustrated with him at times, it’s only because I expect so much out of him.

      And if he fails to deliver...??

      What I have written below is not me defending my position, as apposed to me explaining that position

      I like most people here love Klopp, he has been a breathe of fresh air for the club, but at the end of the day he was I believe hired by the club to build a team that wins Trophies,Titles and to re-establish Liverpool FC among the English and European greatest ....When did we last win the League...?  It was 27 years ago, but if you are happy with the odd league and FA Cup here and there, the odd game here we beat Man Utd 4-1, Arsenal 4-0, City and Chelsea then crack on... At the end of the day I want Klopp here, but I want him to win the League and up there closely challenging for that title every season... I expect that when we enter the CL that we prove hard to beat, Be menacing going forward yet solid in defense, that like the Arsenal's,Chelsea's,City's and Utd's we have game changers coming off the bench.... Now I don't expect this in one window, but I expect him to start this process, and the place he should be looking to start is in defense...

      If Klopp can not either see this,  or fails to address this, then what is the point of him being here...

      I still support Klopp, and still hope that he can turn things around, but my patients with him is finite along with my support for him... for me he has till the end of next summers window to start showing that he is trying to rectify things.... 27 years 141 days and counting   
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13916: Sep 24, 2017 03:22:07 pm
      I like most people here love Klopp, he has been a breathe of fresh air for the club, but at the end of the day he was I believe hired by the club to build a team that wins Trophies,Titles and to re-establish Liverpool FC among the English and European greatest ....When did we last win the League...?  It was 27 years ago, but if you are happy with the odd league and FA Cup here and there, the odd game here we beat Man Utd 4-1, Arsenal 4-0, City and Chelsea then crack on... At the end of the day I want Klopp here, but I want him to win the League and up there closely challenging for that title every season... I expect that when we enter the CL that we prove hard to beat, Be menacing going forward yet solid in defense, that like the Arsenal's,Chelsea's,City's and Utd's we have game changers coming off the bench.... Now I don't expect this in one window, but I expect him to start this process, and the place he should be looking to start is in defense...

      If Klopp can not either see this,  or fails to address this, then what is the point of him being here...

      I still support Klopp, and still hope that he can turn things around, but my patients with him is finite along with my support for him... for me he has till the end of next summers window to start showing that he is trying to rectify things.... 27 years 141 days and counting

      Let's get the simple things out of the way:

      Klopp cannot be held accountable for the 25 years or so without the league title before he arrived, hanging that around his neck serves no purpose other than to exaggerate the negative.

      Secondly, give the man a fair handed appraisal of where he came from and where he has us now. Did he take over a team that had won cups the previous year? No, he took over a team that was languishing in 8th and had the most unbalanced first team we've fielded outside of Hodgson times. We didn't even have a left-footer in the team and our attack consisted of a big target man without having a winger in the team either, to say it was dysfunctional and directionless would be a compliment.

      Jürgen now has the style established, he now has us beating the better teams, back in the CL, creating almost the most chances in the entire league and with star players wanting to get on board with this project. Who exactly would you choose to be doing better than that when you take into consideration our owners, nobody, that's who.

      Klopp is our single best hope under the current ownership and is proving exactly why, sure there's a few bumps along the road but building a team up from where he got it is hardly likely to be plain sailing. Every manager gets signings wrong, he's surely afforded the odd one or two, when you look at the successes of Mane/Salah/Matip etc then the odd Grujic here and there are easily forgivable. Now he has Keita coming and I'm hoping VvD too in the near future, these are players that will improve us again, the trajectory is absolutely clear in every department, so just give the man your support and time because it's clear as day the media are jumping all over this defensive issue right now and we should not be giving them more fuel imo.
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13917: Sep 24, 2017 03:55:23 pm
      Let's get the simple things out of the way:

      Klopp cannot be held accountable for the 25 years or so without the league title before he arrived, hanging that around his neck serves no purpose other than to exaggerate the negative.

      Secondly, give the man a fair handed appraisal of where he came from and where he has us now. Did he take over a team that had won cups the previous year? No, he took over a team that was languishing in 8th and had the most unbalanced first team we've fielded outside of Hodgson times. We didn't even have a left-footer in the team and our attack consisted of a big target man without having a winger in the team either, to say it was dysfunctional and directionless would be a compliment.

      Jürgen now has the style established, he now has us beating the better teams, back in the CL, creating almost the most chances in the entire league and with star players wanting to get on board with this project. Who exactly would you choose to be doing better than that when you take into consideration our owners, nobody, that's who.

      Klopp is our single best hope under the current ownership and is proving exactly why, sure there's a few bumps along the road but building a team up from where he got it is hardly likely to be plain sailing. Every manager gets signings wrong, he's surely afforded the odd one or two, when you look at the successes of Mane/Salah/Matip etc then the odd Grujic here and there are easily forgivable. Now he has Keita coming and I'm hoping VvD too in the near future, these are players that will improve us again, the trajectory is absolutely clear in every department, so just give the man your support and time because it's clear as day the media are jumping all over this defensive issue right now and we should not be giving them more fuel imo.

      I'll agree with most of this to be fair, we are definitely better now than we were towards Brendans last few seasons.

      Klopp has though been here a fair while now and it would be a little bit David Cameron of him to keep blaming the previous regime when we are years down the line from that.

      He has put his stamp on this team and created a blue print for how he wants us to play. Lovely. But now it is time we start seeing the results of his work.

      For a long time now we have found ways to drop points and lose matches having dominated the matches and that habit has to change.

      In the end its what happens in both boxes that counts and if we miss chances we should score and concede goals we shouldn't concede then nothing will change.

      Klopp loves the training ground and good for him, but nobody can really deny a top class striker, defender and a keeper could save him years.
      skolRED
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13918: Sep 24, 2017 03:59:29 pm
      And if he fails to deliver...??

      What I have written below is not me defending my position, as apposed to me explaining that position

      I like most people here love Klopp, he has been a breathe of fresh air for the club, but at the end of the day he was I believe hired by the club to build a team that wins Trophies,Titles and to re-establish Liverpool FC among the English and European greatest ....When did we last win the League...?  It was 27 years ago, but if you are happy with the odd league and FA Cup here and there, the odd game here we beat Man Utd 4-1, Arsenal 4-0, City and Chelsea then crack on... At the end of the day I want Klopp here, but I want him to win the League and up there closely challenging for that title every season... I expect that when we enter the CL that we prove hard to beat, Be menacing going forward yet solid in defense, that like the Arsenal's,Chelsea's,City's and Utd's we have game changers coming off the bench.... Now I don't expect this in one window, but I expect him to start this process, and the place he should be looking to start is in defense...

      If Klopp can not either see this,  or fails to address this, then what is the point of him being here...

      I still support Klopp, and still hope that he can turn things around, but my patients with him is finite along with my support for him... for me he has till the end of next summers window to start showing that he is trying to rectify things.... 27 years 141 days and counting   

      My opinion on Klopp and situations are quite similar to your mate.

      Just I'm ready to give him more time, as he's more than proof that he's capable to bring in or turn players to be a top quality; like Mane, Salah, and some very promising like Robertson and Solanke.
      His attraction of Naby and (likely) VVD with the limitations of our (allegedly) wage structure is admirable. That at least showing us that give him enough time and resource he is capable to bring success to our club.

      My biggest frustration is he seem too stubborn to persist with poor players. His subs also often too late (seem improved lately).

      Sometimes people show their frustrate just because they care, some can keep calm but someone can't.

      People sometimes forget how easy the manager to kick out by the owner. Better managers than Klopp fired by many clubs before. Klopp's situation for our owner is looking good, his net spend play big role in this perhaps. But if Klopp did not do thing quick enough he will face big problem building his team that is he will lost his best players. Of course our owner back him to keep Coutinho this season anyway I'm not trust the moneymen so thats why I'm frustrate, it's more I'm fear of losing him.



         
      bmck
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13919: Sep 24, 2017 04:40:53 pm
      .. so just give the man your support and time because it's clear as day the media are jumping all over this defensive issue right now and we should not be giving them more fuel imo.

      Sorry to clip that, but reminded me of the headline I read today in the Sunday Times..
      "Mignolet saves Reds' blushes"
      Rubbish really, and not unusual to get analysis like that - why would anyone bother with match reports from the mainstream media when they can come in here ;)

      That said, not sure that burying our heads in the sand is a good policy either.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13920: Sep 24, 2017 05:17:15 pm
      Klopp has though been here a fair while now and it would be a little bit David Cameron of him to keep blaming the previous regime when we are years down the line from that.

      That's just it mate, nobody is blaming the previous regime but at least use it as perspective as to where he had to start from and where he is now. The problems in defence are now solely the responsibility of Jürgen and it's clearly his job to fix it but the problem I have is not those that criticise him for it, but the ultimatums that "fix this or you're done".

      He clearly (by targeting VvD) sees there's an issue and believes he can fix it, but as he has also rightly pointed out and as people should be able to deduce for themselves the problem isn't a one person fix. Jürgen is working, constantly, on the mentality of these players, the likes of Lovren probably look amazing in training without pressure and without nerves but in a match he can often go to pieces, same with Gomez, should he panic and drop back in playing 3 men onside, he knows he shouldn't we know he shouldn't and he was clearly coached not to but, it happens. This is what Jürgen is "sick" of because these players need to trust their coaching, they need to not have brain farts that cause shockwaves to go off throughout the team and hit confidence hard and anyone who thinks coaching that is easy really underestimates it. It's developing that winning culture that "we are better and we know it" attitude, sorry to bring the Mancs into it but when they were dominant recently you just knew sometimes that they'd turn it around, why, simply because. We're trying to get there but it's tough but we wont get there with constant snipes and digs from the side chipping away at that belief and fuelling the baying media who have their crosshairs well and truly honed in on this issue.

      What I would also say is that people need to also realise that if they want entertainment and to play football the right way we are always going to concede more than the dour 1-0 Arsenal types, that also has to be accepted to some extent. We can't expect to play such expansive football, knocking 2+ in most games and expect a water tight defence, it wont happen and in my opinion I prefer it this way anyway. I'd much rather watch heavy metal football than timid, backs to the wall, pinch on the counter type footy. Sure I can endure it for certain matches but over the course of the season I want to enjoy us hammering some teams and really imposing our style on the game just as we have many times already.

      For a long time now we have found ways to drop points and lose matches having dominated the matches and that habit has to change.

      Yes and I absolutely guarantee you nobody knows that more than Jürgen.
      GERNS
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13921: Sep 24, 2017 07:48:59 pm
      Two things clearly evident yesterday.
      The penalty, never was. Migs made the ball, and Vardy done what Vardy does. FFS, even watching on motd later on, the commentator says, that's a penalty, mignolet got nowhere near the ball, only for the following clip to show he clearly did !
      The 1st Leicester goal. Mignolet again involved, being held by the arm, by a defender. Clear foul which wasn't difficult to see. Two failures by match officials, and Klopp gets berated. 1-3 result, as it should have been at least, and everyone's happy.
      Leicester under a different kind of pressure than us, and will outplay mid to bottom table teams, but against better opposition they have to resort to dirty rough house Sunday league tactics.
      I was unsure about the subs, and we still have issues with the defensive set up or personnel, but yesterday, a decent result was almost derailed by poor, poor  refereeing. Not Klopps managment !
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13922: Sep 25, 2017 12:13:18 am
      I have every confidence in Klopp but ultimately, if he doesn't get us successful again then it will be because of his persistence to carry on playing Migs.
      He said Migs will be playing around 80% of our games this season. This suggests to me that regardless how badly he plays and how well the other 2 do in training and their gametime, it will never be enough because his mind is made up to stick with Migs.

      Come on Klopp, time to get ruthless and sort this mess of a situation we have defensively and in goal. Don't let this be the reason success isn't delivered.
      billythered
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13923: Sep 25, 2017 07:09:07 am
      Let's get the simple things out of the way:

      Klopp cannot be held accountable for the 25 years or so without the league title before he arrived, hanging that around his neck serves no purpose other than to exaggerate the negative.

      Secondly, give the man a fair handed appraisal of where he came from and where he has us now. Did he take over a team that had won cups the previous year? No, he took over a team that was languishing in 8th and had the most unbalanced first team we've fielded outside of Hodgson times. We didn't even have a left-footer in the team and our attack consisted of a big target man without having a winger in the team either, to say it was dysfunctional and directionless would be a compliment.

      Jürgen now has the style established, he now has us beating the better teams, back in the CL, creating almost the most chances in the entire league and with star players wanting to get on board with this project. Who exactly would you choose to be doing better than that when you take into consideration our owners, nobody, that's who.

      Klopp is our single best hope under the current ownership and is proving exactly why, sure there's a few bumps along the road but building a team up from where he got it is hardly likely to be plain sailing. Every manager gets signings wrong, he's surely afforded the odd one or two, when you look at the successes of Mane/Salah/Matip etc then the odd Grujic here and there are easily forgivable. Now he has Keita coming and I'm hoping VvD too in the near future, these are players that will improve us again, the trajectory is absolutely clear in every department, so just give the man your support and time because it's clear as day the media are jumping all over this defensive issue right now and we should not be giving them more fuel imo.


      Stop it now Luke, anybody would think your talking sense ?   ;)



      YNWA
      Alfie2510
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13924: Sep 25, 2017 09:41:07 am
      Tired of people making veiled ultimatums about Klopp’s shelf life. He may need to make some improvements but good grief there aren’t any other managers I’d rather have right now. And as much as I may get frustrated with him at times, it’s only because I expect so much out of him.


      I expect him to set up a team that can defend a set piece and soak a bit pressure. That's not expecting 'so much out of him' it's the bare essentials and he can't f***in do it after2 years in the job
      Sat was a big relief but that's the type of play that you sometimes win, you sometimes lose (4-3 Bournemouth) you sometimes daw (3-3 Watford)
      It's certainly not the type of play that wins you anything over 38 games
      Scotia
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13925: Sep 25, 2017 09:56:40 am

      I expect him to set up a team that can defend a set piece and soak a bit pressure. That's not expecting 'so much out of him' it's the bare essentials and he can't f***in do it after2 years in the job
      Sat was a big relief but that's the type of play that you sometimes win, you sometimes lose (4-3 Bournemouth) you sometimes daw (3-3 Watford)
      It's certainly not the type of play that wins you anything over 38 games

      What do you think should happen now to improve us Alfie, at least till Jan?

      Change formation?

      Change personnel?

      Bring in a specialised defensive coach ala Stevie Clarke?

      Change Manager?

      Genuine question - I get you're not a fan of Jürgen - what would you do if you had the keys to the FSG kingdom?
      « Last Edit: Sep 25, 2017 02:08:46 pm by Scotia »
      ozi_wozzy
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13926: Sep 25, 2017 12:51:55 pm

      "JWH&Co supporters"  they do say that once you cure cancer, there are always dormant cancerous cells left over and a chance of a comeback. Just gotta watch out for these f***ers mate  ;)
      stuey
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13927: Sep 25, 2017 02:02:01 pm
      "JWH&Co supporters"  they do say that once you cure cancer, there are always dormant cancerous cells left over and a chance of a comeback. Just gotta watch out for these f***ers mate  ;)

      Agreed mate and the insidious disease will thrive when the host is weak and under-nourished.

       If l can continue the anology by asserting the above is exactly the state LFC were in when JWH&Co acquired the club for a song via judicial process, from the ruinous clutches of H&G.

      Unfortunately while the club is virtually in a state of limbo with the owner's refusal to feed an asset and the financial constriction placed on the manager, LFC will not see a return to glory or more tellingly the appearance of a strong, all conquering club.
      That perceived weakness will attract potential owners of much the same calibre as we presently host.

      I assume that is the gist of your advice about ''watching out for the fuckers returning", very perceptive mate.
      « Last Edit: Sep 25, 2017 03:08:33 pm by stuey »
      redindian
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13928: Sep 25, 2017 02:03:17 pm
      what would you do if you had the keys to the FSG kingdom?

      I will abduct Queen Linda.

      :f_sorry: couldn't resist.
      lreland
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13929: Sep 25, 2017 02:28:01 pm
      We seem as club we can't seem beat sh*t teams at home enough or away that reason why clubs like city utd Chelsea win league titles taught hopeful we start beat these teams more often
      lreland
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13930: Sep 25, 2017 02:28:37 pm
      Klopp Still as manger find hard beat these sh*t teams at home
      Kopite78
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13931: Sep 25, 2017 03:36:39 pm
      Klopp Still as manger find hard beat these sh*t teams at home

      Since Klopp has been manager his home record against the traditional bottom 14

      W 15 D 8 L 3

      Same time Utd

      W 16 D 9 L 2

      Same time Chelsea

      W 17 D 6 L 4

      Not allot of difference really. Couldn't be bothered to go through more sides but Chelsea have won the league in that time, Utd are Utd
      Scotia
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13932: Sep 25, 2017 03:40:02 pm
      Since Klopp has been manager his home record against the traditional bottom 14

      W 15 D 8 L 3

      Same time Utd

      W 16 D 9 L 2

      Same time Chelsea

      W 17 D 6 L 4

      Not allot of difference really. Couldn't be bothered to go through more sides but Chelsea have won the league in that time, Utd are Utd

      Odd isn't it - given our record vs top 6 too......

      Relentless consistency is the real challenge......and that is harder when you leak goals I guess.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13933: Sep 25, 2017 03:45:05 pm
      So the Boss will have the awesome foursome available tonight for the first time this season..


      Mane,Couthino,Friminho,Salah.

      Kopite78
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13934: Sep 25, 2017 03:48:36 pm
      Odd isn't it - given our record vs top 6 too......

      Relentless consistency is the real challenge......and that is harder when you leak goals I guess.

      It is, but you know what it shows us? We're improving under him even if people want it to happen over night, it can't especially in such a competitive league, there's not just Utd and Chelsea, there are Spurs, City, Arsenal..

      I just don't like hyperbole without someone researching their shouts..

      I just looked at Klopp's record away against that traditional 14 and maybe that's where we need to improve

      W 13 D 4 L 10
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13935: Sep 25, 2017 04:03:34 pm
      Is there anything more pointless than fellow pundits asking Steven Gerrard how he feels about Klopp?

      I mean, I know he's a club legend and all, but he manages the U18s under the club manager, would you expect him to start questioning Jürgen? I'd almost wonder, if he wants to get into management, if he should still be doing punditry, but at the least they would do well to keep him commenting on topics he can be objective about.
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13936: Sep 25, 2017 04:16:49 pm
      So the Boss will have the awesome foursome available tonight for the first time this season..


      Mane,Couthino,Friminho,Salah.



      Let's hope that stays the same tomorrow ;D.

      Wonder how long that stays that way by the way. It's something we just never seem able to do. Keep them all fit and we can string some wins together.
      Alfie2510
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13937: Sep 25, 2017 05:44:30 pm
      What do you think should happen now to improve us Alfie, at least till Jan?

      Change formation?

      Change personnel?

      Bring in a specialised defensive coach ala Stevie Clarke?

      Change Manager?

      Genuine question - I get you're not a fan of Jürgen - what would you do if you had the keys to the FSG kingdom?


      That's what Klopp gets £170k per week to deduce  :f_tongueincheek:

      No I wouldn't change manager we are invested in Klopp for better or worse and I want to see him be successful, I couldn't bear the beginning of a new 'project'.


      Firstly I would have a midfielder that sits on that defence and covers it. I would say Henderson most often is the closest midfielder to the defence when he plays and yet at 2-1 on Sat you've got him popping up in the oppositions penanlty box and scoring a goal (good thing in this instance I know but his last goal was a year ago so I'd rather he focused on keeping them out myself)

      Sencondly I would drill the life out of the players when it comes to set pieces and defensive shape. You hear a lot of the Liverpool players say how great they find training etc and that is good, but sometimes training should be monotomous and robotic until the players are doing certain things defensively without even thinking. People that know a lot more about football than me comment that when you watch Liverpool defend it's apparent they are not working on this aspect of play enough. If they were Joe Gomez on Wed night instinctively follows the line out of the box and we don't concede that 1st goal


      So yeah that would be the focus for me. You?

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