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      Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

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      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13938: Sep 25, 2017 06:21:19 pm
      Let's get the simple things out of the way:

      Klopp cannot be held accountable for the 25 years or so without the league title before he arrived, hanging that around his neck serves no purpose other than to exaggerate the negative.

      Luke, You were the last person on this forum I would expect to miss quote someone, or imply that someone as said something that they have clearly not... Please show me anywhere in any of my post where I have said or implied that it was down to Jürgen why we have not won the title over the past 27 years...??

      Secondly, give the man a fair handed appraisal of where he came from and where he has us now. Did he take over a team that had won cups the previous year? No, he took over a team that was languishing in 8th and had the most unbalanced first team we've fielded outside of Hodgson times. We didn't even have a left-footer in the team and our attack consisted of a big target man without having a winger in the team either, to say it was dysfunctional and directionless would be a compliment.

      We did indeed finish in 8th place before Klopp took charge, But the year before we finished in 6th so you can hardly say that we were "languishing" in 8th.... And as for not "taking over a team that had won cups the previous year" Did not Antonio Conte do the same with a Chelsea team that finished 10th when we finished in 8th...

      OK Conte bought straight away and Klopp decided to look at the team first, something which i admired...But what happened in the January window..? still no one

      We didn't even have a left-footer in the team

      Daniel Sturridge

      Jürgen now has the style established, he now has us beating the better teams,

      So not much has Changed then... We always did good against the better team... It was the so called leeer teams we always struggled against, and still do even under Klopp

      back in the CL,  For how long, and can we finish in the top four this season?... Short of a total collapse of two or more of City,Utd,Chelsea,Spurs and Arsenal I doubt it very much...

      creating almost the most chances in the entire league and with star players wanting to get on board with this project. Who exactly would you choose to be doing better than that when you take into consideration our owners, nobody, that's who.

      Yes... With Create chances,but how many do we put away...?? What was it 35 against Bournemouth and one goal...
      Yes star players, and who did we buy...? The Ox...Sorry Keita for next season...Gus hidnik,Carlo Ancelotti are both capable managers...But and I stress But I am not calling for klopp's head (Not at present anyway) I merely want him to do what we hired him to do,and ,or bring in people to do so (A defensive coach)

      Klopp is our single best hope under the current ownership and is proving exactly why, sure there's a few bumps along the road but building a team up from where he got it is hardly likely to be plain sailing. Every manager gets signings wrong, he's surely afforded the odd one or two, when you look at the successes of Mane/Salah/Matip etc then the odd Grujic here and there are easily forgivable. Now he has Keita coming and I'm hoping VvD too in the near future, these are players that will improve us again, the trajectory is absolutely clear in every department, so just give the man your support and time because it's clear as day the media are jumping all over this defensive issue right now and we should not be giving them more fuel imo.

      I do support Klopp, But some of the mistakes he has made are unfathomable... He knew the defense was a problem and when he knew that we was not going to put a bid in for VVD he should have had a second choice, Third choice even a forth choice target to go after instead what do we do? we go out and spend £40 m on a midfielder we did not need... If we had bought another CB and he did not work out it would have been one of those things, but not to even buy one...?? WTF

      AS I said before If he tries to address the problem in the pre-season window fine, if he again fails to address the problem and does not sign a centre back...I'll be calling for his head
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13939: Sep 25, 2017 06:31:21 pm
      My opinion on Klopp and situations are quite similar to your mate.

      Just I'm ready to give him more time, as he's more than proof that he's capable to bring in or turn players to be a top quality; like Mane, Salah, and some very promising like Robertson and Solanke.
      His attraction of Naby and (likely) VVD with the limitations of our (allegedly) wage structure is admirable. That at least showing us that give him enough time and resource he is capable to bring success to our club.

      My biggest frustration is he seem too stubborn to persist with poor players. His subs also often too late (seem improved lately).

      Sometimes people show their frustrate just because they care, some can keep calm but someone can't.

      People sometimes forget how easy the manager to kick out by the owner. Better managers than Klopp fired by many clubs before. Klopp's situation for our owner is looking good, his net spend play big role in this perhaps. But if Klopp did not do thing quick enough he will face big problem building his team that is he will lost his best players. Of course our owner back him to keep Coutinho this season anyway I'm not trust the moneymen so thats why I'm frustrate, it's more I'm fear of losing him.

      Here is the thing mate.... I thought that I had made my feelings clear on the matter...I was not calling for Klopp's head,I has stated that I just did not want to hear him defending the un-defendable, and I wanted him to just get on and sort the team out, even went as far as stating we need to see this happening next summer (Not much happens in the January window)
      I just don't understand some peoples reaction  ???
      Scotia
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13940: Sep 25, 2017 06:45:37 pm

      That's what Klopp gets £170k per week to deduce  :f_tongueincheek:

      No I wouldn't change manager we are invested in Klopp for better or worse and I want to see him be successful, I couldn't bear the beginning of a new 'project'.


      Firstly I would have a midfielder that sits on that defence and covers it. I would say Henderson most often is the closest midfielder to the defence when he plays and yet at 2-1 on Sat you've got him popping up in the oppositions penanlty box and scoring a goal (good thing in this instance I know but his last goal was a year ago so I'd rather he focused on keeping them out myself)

      Sencondly I would drill the life out of the players when it comes to set pieces and defensive shape. You hear a lot of the Liverpool players say how great they find training etc and that is good, but sometimes training should be monotomous and robotic until the players are doing certain things defensively without even thinking. People that know a lot more about football than me comment that when you watch Liverpool defend it's apparent they are not working on this aspect of play enough. If they were Joe Gomez on Wed night instinctively follows the line out of the box and we don't concede that 1st goal


      So yeah that would be the focus for me. You?



      Agree re Klopp - it is his job and it's not time to change.

      For me the biggest thing right now has been the lack of consistency in selection - few reasons of which rotation is only one so I'd like to see that settle a bit.

      For me our best (available) back 4 is TAA, Matip, Lovren and Robbo but one is a kid, one has injury issues (Lovren), one is low of confidence (Matip) and one isn't (yet) trusted - Robbo.

      Again you pays your money and takes your choice - we play such a high line I'm not sure an out and out sitter adds much......If going that way I'd just go whole hogg and play a back 5........we play wing-backs in a back 4 anyhow!

      Fundamentally the defence as a whole isn't good enough right now. I'd start with the goalie and give Ward a chance.
      bmck
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13941: Sep 25, 2017 06:59:02 pm
      "I can't take a car and drive them out of the box"
      http://www.espn.co.uk/football/blog/marcottis-musings/62/post/3213056/liverpool-must-execute-in-defence-lionel-messi-gets-man-marked
      Most of them wouldn't get into a Vauxhall anyway Jürgen ...
      Alfie2510
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13942: Sep 25, 2017 07:19:27 pm
      Jamie Carragher just gave a master class on our issues defensively. Basically concluded that we are not clever enough in terms of being switched on to the threat of who we are playing with (i.e. Vardys pace at th weekend) and not aggressive enough in defending these set pieces
      HScRed1
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13943: Sep 25, 2017 09:58:18 pm
      Jamie Carragher just gave a master class on our issues defensively. Basically concluded that we are not clever enough in terms of being switched on to the threat of who we are playing with (i.e. Vardys pace at th weekend) and not aggressive enough in defending these set pieces

      Did he mention Vardy sticking his leg out to get a free kick the cheating little sh*t.


      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13944: Sep 26, 2017 12:22:45 am
      Luke, You were the last person on this forum I would expect to miss quote someone, or imply that someone as said something that they have clearly not... Please show me anywhere in any of my post where I have said or implied that it was down to Jürgen why we have not won the title over the past 27 years...??

      I still support Klopp, and still hope that he can turn things around, but my patients with him is finite along with my support for him... for me he has till the end of next summers window to start showing that he is trying to rectify things.... 27 years 141 days and counting

      This was where I got that from TRDR, I understand you weren't implying it directly but to me it seemed you were using it to emphasise the negative which served no genuine purpose.

      We did indeed finish in 8th place before Klopp took charge, But the year before we finished in 6th so you can hardly say that we were "languishing" in 8th.... And as for not "taking over a team that had won cups the previous year" Did not Antonio Conte do the same with a Chelsea team that finished 10th when we finished in 8th...

      OK Conte bought straight away and Klopp decided to look at the team first, something which i admired...But what happened in the January window..? still no one

      Come on mate, Chelsea had all kinds of stars who had simply stopped playing for the manager. While I agree our lads had also stopped playing for the manager how many real stars did we have left in the side? I still think to this day that Jürgen isn't given the credit that's deserved when you go back and honestly appraise the squad he took over.


      Who was injured for almost the entire time, but yes I'll give you Sturridge. I was thinking more in terms of LB, Left Wing, positions where having a natural left footer gives you that balance. When a player plays central it is much less punishing I'm sure you'd agree.

      So not much has Changed then... We always did good against the better team...

      I honestly can't believe you said that, the difference between Brendan's record and Jürgen's record against the better teams is like night and day.

      back in the CL,  For how long, and can we finish in the top four this season?... Short of a total collapse of two or more of City,Utd,Chelsea,Spurs and Arsenal I doubt it very much...

      Well that's your opinion, I think we'll get 4th again and quite comfortably too, but we'll have to wait and see on that one.

      Yes... With Create chances,but how many do we put away...?? What was it 35 against Bournemouth and one goal...
      Yes star players, and who did we buy...? The Ox...Sorry Keita for next season...Gus hidnik,Carlo Ancelotti are both capable managers...But and I stress But I am not calling for klopp's head (Not at present anyway) I merely want him to do what we hired him to do

      Yes, and he's doing that. He's showing clear progress year on year and improving the squad year on year. I honestly believe you don't realise just what a mess he took over.

      I do support Klopp, But some of the mistakes he has made are unfathomable... He knew the defense was a problem and when he knew that we was not going to put a bid in for VVD he should have had a second choice, Third choice even a forth choice target to go after instead what do we do? we go out and spend £40 m on a midfielder we did not need... If we had bought another CB and he did not work out it would have been one of those things, but not to even buy one...?? WTF

      AS I said before If he tries to address the problem in the pre-season window fine, if he again fails to address the problem and does not sign a centre back...I'll be calling for his head

      Your prerogative and I respect that you're so open about it but I think you'll find he'll sign a CB and by then Gomez will look an awful lot better too. As for the AOC signing, we'll need him this season, having great depth in quality and cover for 4 crucial positions in the team wasn't wasted hence why so many other teams were after his signature.
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13945: Sep 26, 2017 12:59:43 am
      Luke, You were the last person on this forum I would expect to miss quote someone, or imply that someone as said something that they have clearly not... Please show me anywhere in any of my post where I have said or implied that it was down to Jürgen why we have not won the title over the past 27 years...??

      We did indeed finish in 8th place before Klopp took charge, But the year before we finished in 6th so you can hardly say that we were "languishing" in 8th.... And as for not "taking over a team that had won cups the previous year" Did not Antonio Conte do the same with a Chelsea team that finished 10th when we finished in 8th...

      OK Conte bought straight away and Klopp decided to look at the team first, something which i admired...But what happened in the January window..? still no one

      Daniel Sturridge

      So not much has Changed then... We always did good against the better team... It was the so called leeer teams we always struggled against, and still do even under Klopp

      back in the CL,  For how long, and can we finish in the top four this season?... Short of a total collapse of two or more of City,Utd,Chelsea,Spurs and Arsenal I doubt it very much...

      Yes... With Create chances,but how many do we put away...?? What was it 35 against Bournemouth and one goal...
      Yes star players, and who did we buy...? The Ox...Sorry Keita for next season...Gus hidnik,Carlo Ancelotti are both capable managers...But and I stress But I am not calling for klopp's head (Not at present anyway) I merely want him to do what we hired him to do,and ,or bring in people to do so (A defensive coach)

      I do support Klopp, But some of the mistakes he has made are unfathomable... He knew the defense was a problem and when he knew that we was not going to put a bid in for VVD he should have had a second choice, Third choice even a forth choice target to go after instead what do we do? we go out and spend £40 m on a midfielder we did not need... If we had bought another CB and he did not work out it would have been one of those things, but not to even buy one...?? WTF

      AS I said before If he tries to address the problem in the pre-season window fine, if he again fails to address the problem and does not sign a centre back...I'll be calling for his head

      Good post.

      Apparently Klopp took over a right old mess, but like you say Conte didn't, same with Maureen at Utd I suppose.

      Again, people make excuses upon excuses, I mean one blert blamed Rodgers for Henderson being our current captain, another now is saying the squad was a right old mess - going into his third season with more than enough windows to rectify this apparent mess.

      If that is true, then how come Klopp has kept Mignolet as his number 1, Clyne, Moreno, Lovren, (Sahko, Lucas until recently), Henderson (cap), Can, Milner, Lallana, Coutinho, Firmino, and Sturridge? All these players are still pretty much fundamental starters for Klopp. So that excuse doesn't wash.

      Sorry, this is just confirmation bias.

      If the team was such a mess, and going into a 3rd season under Klopp, then how come he has only spent a total of 16 million pound on the defence?

      The defence arguably looks worse now than it did under Rodgers, is that Rodger's fault as well; or is it Conte's for doing such a great job at Chelsea?

      Who or what are we now going to blame in order to "apportion" blame anywhere but where it should be placed?

      Quote
      I do support Klopp, But some of the mistakes he has made are unfathomable...

      Absolutely spot on. That's either ignored, swept under the carpet or pinned on somebody else. No amount of excuses though will alter that, which is why I said previously that Klopp has come under some scrutiny and very much, rightly so.

      TRDR - you're going to be banging your head against the wall talking to some on here, here is an ice-pack for you first effort.




      « Last Edit: Sep 26, 2017 06:46:26 am by Beerbelly »
      Dadorious
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13946: Sep 26, 2017 05:01:35 am

      That's what Klopp gets £170k per week to deduce  :f_tongueincheek:

      No I wouldn't change manager we are invested in Klopp for better or worse and I want to see him be successful, I couldn't bear the beginning of a new 'project'.


      Firstly I would have a midfielder that sits on that defence and covers it. I would say Henderson most often is the closest midfielder to the defence when he plays and yet at 2-1 on Sat you've got him popping up in the oppositions penanlty box and scoring a goal (good thing in this instance I know but his last goal was a year ago so I'd rather he focused on keeping them out myself)

      Sencondly I would drill the life out of the players when it comes to set pieces and defensive shape. You hear a lot of the Liverpool players say how great they find training etc and that is good, but sometimes training should be monotomous and robotic until the players are doing certain things defensively without even thinking. People that know a lot more about football than me comment that when you watch Liverpool defend it's apparent they are not working on this aspect of play enough. If they were Joe Gomez on Wed night instinctively follows the line out of the box and we don't concede that 1st goal


      So yeah that would be the focus for me. You?


      Clever lad you are.

      Ever considered a career as a football coach?
      Alfie2510
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13947: Sep 26, 2017 06:58:26 am
      Clever lad you are.

      Ever considered a career as a football coach?

      I was asked
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13948: Sep 26, 2017 11:32:32 am
      This was where I got that from TRDR, I understand you weren't implying it directly but to me it seemed you were using it to emphasise the negative which served no genuine purpose.

      Luke, I am a great believer in that Positive things speak for themselves, so mainly concentrate on the negative things in our club, the things that I feel need addressing... It's just me  :)

      Come on mate, Chelsea had all kinds of stars who had simply stopped playing for the manager. While I agree our lads had also stopped playing for the manager how many real stars did we have left in the side? I still think to this day that Jürgen isn't given the credit that's deserved when you go back and honestly appraise the squad he took over.


      Yes that is true, but it was meant to show that Chelsea also had a manager that came in with the club on a low and also had a defense that needed sorting out...

      Who was injured for almost the entire time, but yes I'll give you Sturridge. I was thinking more in terms of LB, Left Wing, positions where having a natural left footer gives you that balance. When a player plays central it is much less punishing I'm sure you'd agree.

      That was not meant to imply that you did not know we had a left footer, just knew you had forgotten. I remember when i was writing it thinking about how long he had been injured on and off that it was easy to forget that he was at the club... ;D

      I honestly can't believe you said that, the difference between Brendan's record and Jürgen's record against the better teams is like night and day.

      But I was not compering the record between the two, I was merely stating that Liverpool over the last 10/12 seasons has been that way, we beat the big teams most of the time and slip up against the minnows most of the time with a few exceptions... It's become a Liverpool norm
       
      Yes, and he's doing that. He's showing clear progress year on year and improving the squad year on year. I honestly believe you don't realise just what a mess he took over.


      Year he has done so In attack and Midfield, but has did little to deal with the defensive issues.... |Yes he bought in some players, and yes he tried to bring in VVD, But he could also have looked at bring in a defensive coach to help the cause

      Your prerogative and I respect that you're so open about it but I think you'll find he'll sign a CB and by then Gomez will look an awful lot better too. As for the AOC signing, we'll need him this season, having great depth in quality and cover for 4 crucial positions in the team wasn't wasted hence why so many other teams were after his signature.

      Hope your right about the defense and Gomez.... on the AOC point, I just felt that the money could have been better spent elsewhere or on a better option...

       :)
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13949: Sep 26, 2017 11:35:52 am
      Good post.

      Apparently Klopp took over a right old mess, but like you say Conte didn't, same with Maureen at Utd I suppose.

      Again, people make excuses upon excuses, I mean one blert blamed Rodgers for Henderson being our current captain, another now is saying the squad was a right old mess - going into his third season with more than enough windows to rectify this apparent mess.

      If that is true, then how come Klopp has kept Mignolet as his number 1, Clyne, Moreno, Lovren, (Sahko, Lucas until recently), Henderson (cap), Can, Milner, Lallana, Coutinho, Firmino, and Sturridge? All these players are still pretty much fundamental starters for Klopp. So that excuse doesn't wash.

      Sorry, this is just confirmation bias.

      If the team was such a mess, and going into a 3rd season under Klopp, then how come he has only spent a total of 16 million pound on the defence?

      The defence arguably looks worse now than it did under Rodgers, is that Rodger's fault as well; or is it Conte's for doing such a great job at Chelsea?

      Who or what are we now going to blame in order to "apportion" blame anywhere but where it should be placed?

      Absolutely spot on. That's either ignored, swept under the carpet or pinned on somebody else. No amount of excuses though will alter that, which is why I said previously that Klopp has come under some scrutiny and very much, rightly so.

      TRDR - you're going to be banging your head against the wall talking to some on here, here is an ice-pack for you first effort.




       :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

      Cheers for the ice pack mate  ;D
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13950: Sep 26, 2017 02:18:32 pm
      Luke, I am a great believer in that Positive things speak for themselves, so mainly concentrate on the negative things in our club, the things that I feel need addressing... It's just me  :)


      Yes that is true, but it was meant to show that Chelsea also had a manager that came in with the club on a low and also had a defense that needed sorting out...

      That was not meant to imply that you did not know we had a left footer, just knew you had forgotten. I remember when i was writing it thinking about how long he had been injured on and off that it was easy to forget that he was at the club... ;D

      But I was not compering the record between the two, I was merely stating that Liverpool over the last 10/12 seasons has been that way, we beat the big teams most of the time and slip up against the minnows most of the time with a few exceptions... It's become a Liverpool norm
       

      Year he has done so In attack and Midfield, but has did little to deal with the defensive issues.... |Yes he bought in some players, and yes he tried to bring in VVD, But he could also have looked at bring in a defensive coach to help the cause

      Hope your right about the defense and Gomez.... on the AOC point, I just felt that the money could have been better spent elsewhere or on a better option...

       :)

      Fair enough mate, time will give us all the answers as usual.
      RobieSlick
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13951: Sep 26, 2017 02:23:12 pm
      So the Boss will have the awesome foursome available tonight for the first time this season..


      Mane,Couthino,Friminho,Salah.



      With Keita joining us next season, it will be fearsome five. I wish another 6 would be added to that list so that we become awesome eleven. At the moment we are half a team, i.e. the front half.

      What I don't understand is why can't we add more than 1 person a season to the team that would make it an AWESOME.
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13952: Sep 26, 2017 05:22:41 pm
      Some people just want to moan when there are far more concerning things going on the world.

      Jaffa Cakes boxes have shrunk.
      DanRed44
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13953: Sep 26, 2017 06:45:36 pm
      With Keita joining us next season, it will be fearsome five. I wish another 6 would be added to that list so that we become awesome eleven. At the moment we are half a team, i.e. the front half.

      What I don't understand is why can't we add more than 1 person a season to the team that would make it an AWESOME.
      I would add Lallana and Matip to the list too, and hopefully Robertson, so we are nearly there!!
      bigmick
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13954: Sep 26, 2017 10:48:15 pm
      Be interesting now where Jürgen goes with team selection. Surely after that he must consider dropping Firmino? Whether it's Mane up top, or Solanke or even Sturridge I don't mind, but the lad is having an absolute mare at the moment, I was embarrassed FOR him tonight. Equally, Can must be looking over his shoulder too, and can Jürgen really be serious about persisting with Karius in the Champions League?

      Time for some tough decisions.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13955: Sep 26, 2017 10:49:52 pm
      Be interesting now where Jürgen goes with team selection. Surely after that he must consider dropping Firmino? Whether it's Mane up top, or Solanke or even Sturridge I don't mind, but the lad is having an absolute mare at the moment, I was embarrassed FOR him tonight. Equally, Can must be looking over his shoulder too, and can Jürgen really be serious about persisting with Karius in the Champions League?

      Time for some tough decisions.

      Bobby and Can have been gash for a number of games.

      Brian78
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13956: Sep 26, 2017 10:52:53 pm
      [quote ]

      Time for some tough decisions.
      [/quote]

      Thats his job. If it aint working he has to fix it
      Rush
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13957: Sep 26, 2017 10:58:53 pm
      Thats his job. If it aint working he has to fix it
      Did he actually say this? I can't find it anywhere
      Brian78
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13958: Sep 26, 2017 11:01:04 pm
      Did he actually say this? I can't find it anywhere

      What that if his team keep coming up short he has to solve it and fix it? No he didnt say it, its in the manual on page 5
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13959: Sep 26, 2017 11:03:34 pm
      Some people just want to moan when there are far more concerning things going on the world.

      Jaffa Cakes boxes have shrunk.

      I couldn't even bloody find them in Asda today. Seem to have disappeared? :o
      Rush
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      • 9,455 posts | 1478 
      • "If you are second, you are nothing."
      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13960: Sep 26, 2017 11:04:32 pm
      What that if his team keep coming up short he has to solve it and fix it? No he didnt say it, its in the manual on page 5
      No, the part about time to make tough decisions

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