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      Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

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      FL Red
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15134: Dec 14, 2017 11:52:30 am
      He is a very very stubborn man and from his interviews it also appears that he is quite an insecure person, these are not qualities of great football managers, certainly not in the Prem. The reason he doesn't make a substitution before the 75th minute is because he refuses to admit he was wrong in the team selection, either that or he is f**king moron, take your pick. Yesterday for example it was obvious to everyone that we needed to make a change, if he'd brought on the Ox and Solanke in the 55th minute, given them 35 minutes plus maybe altered the formation a bit then I think we would have won that game with ease.
      My view of Klopp is that when it works it is a beautiful thing and we play some magnificent football, but he has f**k all idea about how to set up a defence and he has f**k all concept of a plan B inside a game, I'd expect more for the money he is paid.

      Have a word with yourself. What a silly post.
      sore monad
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15135: Dec 14, 2017 12:22:52 pm
      Issue of rotation has to be brought up.

      We've made far, far more changes than anyone in the league - importantly significantly more than the teams around us. Does that mean a) Jürgen's style is simply so intense that we have to make this many changes just to be able to hold our current league position or b) is Jürgen simply changing it up too much?

      I have no problem with a few changes here and there but I struggle to see how we can build any momentum if we make 5-6 changes every single game.

      I don't think rotataion was a factor. That front 4 have played together plenty and we know what they can do. Funny thing was we played better on Sunday with a weaker team.

      It seems to me we lack a bit of character and will to win in the side. I was expecting us to come out fired up to right the wrongs of the weekend, but we just looked flat and lacking in conviction.
      lreland
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15136: Dec 14, 2017 12:37:56 pm
      I think nothing too with klopp we had these problem for years we go out beat top team and next few games lose draw against sh*t teams it why we never win premier till we start beat these teams more often look at first team Walford Burnley at home Newcastle away bitters at home west brom nearly 16 points gone
      Harrisimo
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15137: Dec 14, 2017 12:46:33 pm
      There does seem to be a bit of disharmony in the Squad. Coutinho almost going on strike over the Barca move, Can not signing new deal, Mane got the hump for whatever reason, Henderson now quite unsure of his authority as club captain.Played well against Everton but dropped next game.

      Not a happy camp, some marking time here. Undermines the confidence of the squad a bit. Have to have everybody giving everything, siege mentality almost. If not moral damaged.

      Obviously they are all professionals and once they cross the white line they play their normal game but sometimes you have to bust a gut to get the win.

      Down to Klopp to make sure nobody shortchanges the club...or the fans.
      skamp
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15138: Dec 14, 2017 12:52:10 pm
      He is a very very stubborn man and from his interviews it also appears that he is quite an insecure person, these are not qualities of great football managers, certainly not in the Prem. The reason he doesn't make a substitution before the 75th minute is because he refuses to admit he was wrong in the team selection, either that or he is f**king moron, take your pick. Yesterday for example it was obvious to everyone that we needed to make a change, if he'd brought on the Ox and Solanke in the 55th minute, given them 35 minutes plus maybe altered the formation a bit then I think we would have won that game with ease.
      No-one was more stubborn than Ferguson and we all know how well he did (ouch!).

      Why does it appear he is insecure?!!  What psychological qualification leads you to believe that without one-to-one time with Klopp?!

      You think we'd have won the game with ease if he made your changes, is that in the same way that we'd have beaten Everton with ease had we started the Fab 4 against them?  The same 4 that couldn't score against a team without a league win in 4 months!!??

      Talk of Klopp out is a disgrace!  The same type of talk from the same type of "fans" EVERY time we fail to win a match.  More fans like you & I'd walk if I were Klopp!!
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15139: Dec 14, 2017 01:02:24 pm
      No-one was more stubborn than Ferguson and we all know how well he did (ouch!).

      Why does it appear he is insecure?!!  What psychological qualification leads you to believe that without one-to-one time with Klopp?!

      You think we'd have won the game with ease if he made your changes, is that in the same way that we'd have beaten Everton with ease had we started the Fab 4 against them?  The same 4 that couldn't score against a team without a league win in 4 months!!??

      Talk of Klopp out is a disgrace!  The same type of talk from the same type of "fans" EVERY time we fail to win a match.  More fans like you & I'd walk if I were Klopp!!

      And maybe if we had more fans like you Hodgson would still be in charge and we would be in league 1.

      I like klopp a lot but he certainly has his faults and criticism or frustration is more than justified.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15140: Dec 14, 2017 01:04:32 pm
      The rotation is probably excessive but clearly the ghost of last january is hanging over klopp, no league cup or cl means hopefully we will see the benefits,  lallana will help also with the link with midfield and attack

      He's gone from one extreme to the other though. You don't have to rotate seven or eight players every match, that's what's breaking the rhythm of the team. There's also the formation. One day Mane's being asked to be a winger, the next a striker. Things need to settle down and be dealt with only on an as-needs basis rather than this forward planning he's obviously engaging in and rotating for rotation's sake. One of my biggest criticisms of Klopp he that he still doesn't seem to understand how this league works.
      heimdall
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15141: Dec 14, 2017 01:05:17 pm
      Have a word with yourself. What a silly post.

      How is it silly, has Klopp EVER changed tactics midway through a match, EVER made a sub before 75 mins, unless because of injury? Has he developed a killer strategy to combat bus parkers?
      The man is stubborn, hence constantly playing Mignolet, and insecure, I refer you to the embarrassing Sky interview which was an almost textbook insecurity response.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15142: Dec 14, 2017 01:06:25 pm

      Can't disagree with this, especially when you take into account that Jürgen rotates as much as he does to protect his players  from injury, and to keep them fresh,  so therefore would it not make sense then to use his bench earlier than he has done of late, ensuring that injuries are kept to a minimum while maximizing freshness of legs and providing valuable pitch time for non starters, but hey, what do i know?

      YNWA

      The problem with rotating is that you need players of a similar quality to those that you're resting. It's clear that we don't have a strong squad, and I'm afraid that falls at the feet of Jürgen.

      I really hope he can find the right players to bring in to make us stronger, but I'm worried that he's too obsessed with not spending money to do that.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15143: Dec 14, 2017 01:11:22 pm
      Lots of rotation but yet City are flying by only really rotating Aguero and Jesus. Likes of Silva, Sterling and KDB seem to be playing every game. Sterling's game is also very similar to Mane and Salah, in terms that he basis a lot of his play on the use of his pace.

      Think all this rotation is starting to hamper us, we can't get into any rhythm. We get a win but then we go into the next game with 6 different players starting. I get we needed to manage the players better than last year around this time but this is getting ridiculous now. Play your strongest team, get the win early on and then look to take the key players off early.

      It's because City dominate with so much possession which in return is less intensive. And if you look at our last 5 games, it's been pretty much the same as City, so I think this mass roatation has been a bit silly, not like we have been playing any big teams or been parking the bus which usually requires a lot more work than dominating, right?
      paulow63
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15144: Dec 14, 2017 01:11:51 pm
      Once he's cracked how to beat the bus parkers like Man U, WBA and Everton and then learnt how to beat this season's top teams like Chelsea, Spurs and Man City he'll have cracked it
      heimdall
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15145: Dec 14, 2017 01:12:56 pm
      No-one was more stubborn than Ferguson and we all know how well he did (ouch!).

      Why does it appear he is insecure?!!  What psychological qualification leads you to believe that without one-to-one time with Klopp?!

      You think we'd have won the game with ease if he made your changes, is that in the same way that we'd have beaten Everton with ease had we started the Fab 4 against them?  The same 4 that couldn't score against a team without a league win in 4 months!!??

      Talk of Klopp out is a disgrace!  The same type of talk from the same type of "fans" EVERY time we fail to win a match.  More fans like you & I'd walk if I were Klopp!!

      I'd say that Ferguson was authoritarian rather than stubborn. I can clearly remember Manure under him changing tactics even mid game to influence matches and he wasn't shy about making subs at any point of the game if needed, plus he would never ever have allowed the goalkeeping and defensive issues which have plagued us to continue for year after year without addressing them.
      Klopp plays lovely attacking football, but in terms of tactics and man management he is light years behind the truly great and successful managers like Ferguson, Shankly, Paisley, Fagan and I'll even add in Maureen and Pep although Maureen has gone a bit off the boil the last few years.
      heimdall
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15146: Dec 14, 2017 01:14:15 pm
      Once he's cracked how to beat the bus parkers like Man U, WBA and Everton and then learnt how to beat this season's top teams like Chelsea, Spurs and Man City he'll have cracked it

      So you reckon 3 seasons isn't enough time for a manager and his staff to figure it out?
      skamp
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15147: Dec 14, 2017 01:18:55 pm
      but in terms of tactics and man management he is light years behind the truly great and successful managers like Ferguson, Shankly, Paisley, Fagan and I'll even add in Maureen and Pep although Maureen has gone a bit off the boil the last few years.
      ;D - he's light years behind them in terms of squad quality compared to his rivals mainly!
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15148: Dec 14, 2017 01:21:52 pm
      6 points and 7 goals worse off than this stage last season apparently. Makes you wonder where we would have been without Salah!
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15149: Dec 14, 2017 01:24:07 pm
      The problem with rotating is that you need players of a similar quality to those that you're resting. It's clear that we don't have a strong squad, and I'm afraid that falls at the feet of Jürgen.

      I really hope he can find the right players to bring in to make us stronger, but I'm worried that he's too obsessed with not spending money to do that.

      He is in some places, seems utterly disinterested in others. Obsessed with attacking midfielders, disinterested in defensive. He also puts far too much faith in certain players which is undermining us as a squad. Personally I never bought the whole January debacle on players running out of steam. I'm sure some were tired but it was his tactics that were the problem. He, by his own admission, had never seen teams play in such a negative, defensive manner before. It's a peculiarity of our country it seems. We didn't draw so many games because of tiredness, we drew them because we couldn't break teams down, a failing we seem to be repeating this year given we've had more draws this season than anyone other than West Brom.

      This rotation for rotation's sake needs to stop, players need to find their rhythm and Klopp most of all needs to understand that he has a subs bench for a purpose and stop waiting until 80 bloody minutes before making a change, and when he does make a change, that change needs to be in accordance with what's going on in the game and not a pre-planned one based upon him thinking so and so is in need of a rest.
      heimdall
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15150: Dec 14, 2017 01:24:41 pm
      ;D - he's light years behind them in terms of squad quality compared to his rivals mainly!

      Oh I'm sorry I didn't realise that improving on our defenders and goalkeeper required massive mega mega investment. I also didn't realise that making subs before the 75th minute somehow costs money or that formulating a Plan B tactics-wise was hugely expensive.
      bmck
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15151: Dec 14, 2017 01:56:02 pm
      Klopp most of all needs to understand that he has a subs bench for a purpose and stop waiting until 80 bloody minutes before making a change,

      Yea, personally I agreed with all the changes he made, but thought he could've made the first 2 changes *at least* 10 minutes sooner. The game was stale, Mane and the middle two were obviously having poor games - not sure why he doesn't just change it up earlier.

      Was a bit pissed we rotated against Everton, not for West Brom - but then we had those players back for West Brom and still hit the wall :( Still, thought we played better against Everton and starting the front4 there would've been better imho.

      We're not good at winning ugly. Big wins are great. But we need to start turning a lot more of our bore draws into narrow wins :)
      hardcoresoldier
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15152: Dec 14, 2017 02:04:45 pm
      If a professional football player who is earning £100,000 plus per week cannot condition himself to exert himself for 90 minutes, two times a week, he should be decapitated and burned.

      All this talk of players being tired pisses me right off. There are millions of people all over the world working regular 12 hour shifts for a pittance compared to these players and they just get on with it.

      God help the fuckers if they had to play rugby, they'd probably die.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15153: Dec 14, 2017 02:09:53 pm
      We're not good at winning ugly. Big wins are great. But we need to start turning a lot more of our bore draws into narrow wins :)

      Yup, that's another problem. Know when the last time we won 1-0 was? Against Palace in August. As you say, we don't seem capable of grinding out results, and if we had turned those Draws into Wins, that extra fourteen points would have us second in the table, four points off City and well and truly in the title race.
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15154: Dec 14, 2017 02:29:48 pm
      If a professional football player who is earning £100,000 plus per week cannot condition himself to exert himself for 90 minutes, two times a week, he should be decapitated and burned.

      All this talk of players being tired pisses me right off. There are millions of people all over the world working regular 12 hour shifts for a pittance compared to these players and they just get on with it.

      God help the fuckers if they had to play rugby, they'd probably die.

      I hate this argument

      It's not fit as in your or my levels of fitness, they'd run over us at 50%
      It's how fit or fatigued they feel against their contempories

      A fatiging professional at say 70% will not be at their best if an opponent is at 90%

      We can say money this and money that but you could pay them a trillion quid a week or nothing and that fact still stands especially nowadays as the game is quicker and more reliant of fitness than ever before
      bmck
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15155: Dec 14, 2017 02:47:44 pm
      Yup, that's another problem. Know when the last time we won 1-0 was? Against Palace in August.

      Yea, 1-0 is not a score I enter too often into the prediction league ;)
      Tadders
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15156: Dec 14, 2017 03:16:22 pm
      Maybe Jürgen and the other managers have realised the league has gone and there is plenty of time for us to get 2nd\3rd\4th. If you can't win it then do enough to finish in the CL places - this way we may make a real go of winning a trophy?

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