Liverpool 1:1 Southampton. In game & post match debate.

Sorry the cap fits.

But that's my opinion and I stand by it.

People are exaggerating this "improvement," and yes, I find it nauseating.

Nauseated might be a bit strong, but stomachs differ
Results aren't really improving yet .. still churning out the draws.
On the pitch, I haven't seen enough to be confident we are performing *much* better, yet.

But you could argue that Klopps already doing well to stop further decline, given since BR left have lost Gomez and Ings, Studge is back on the table and Origi couldn't find the net on a fishing boat.
In saying that, running around *more* will only get you so far, will need to see more end product ... how much more of an improvement we'll see with the existing squad who knows ... but am sure he'll be looking to bring in his own men over the coming season(s), this is not a short haul ... he's done it before, he can do it again ...

We're much more difficult to break down, the spaces in midfield are not the chasms of before.

There's a level of aggression in our game, not just the pressing but the attitude of the players is more determined shown both in tackles and reactions.

Substitutions are right.

Team selections are right (no favourites).

What he talks about needing improving is spot on not the sale patter of the past but clear honest facts.

The attitude towards the press is no longer that I want to be your friend and provide you with all the information you need to create your headline / story, it's a frosty "I don't care what you think" attitude that I personally love.

If people can't see the massive improvements in managerial style and approach then they're blind and will only see it when it becomes obvious. Until that time I'll happily point out the many positives I can already see in our game.

As has been said, expecting him to come in with Origi as his starting striker and transform us into a free scoring, never stop pressing machine over-night was ridiculous, it couldn't and wouldn't happen. We're moving in that direction and when we get back players such as Benteke/Firmino/Sturridge/Ings you know our 4 main attacking threats, then people will see the ball hitting the back of the net much more regularly. It's a shame that becomes the only tool to measure with when the positives out there are clear as day to some of us.

Good positive post mate and I am sure we all expect to see improvement by the time Ings gets back

I certainly don't want to dampen the optimism we all have from Klopps appointment, but I think we will have to wait a while to see the real improvements to the team. Even Klopp can't change a headless chicken into the next Bobby Moore overnight, so I am happy to feel genuine confidence that things will improve as the season progresses, we will get better players and that Klopp will win a game this season

And whether it's being to to 'F**k off', 'get out of the forum' or being "indirectly" called pathetic - it will get on people's goat.

On discussion: IMHO proper improvement will come - 1: when players are fully fit and 2: when we sign higher quality.

I shall now F**k off. 

I guess until we start winning some won't acknowledge there's been an improvement which is fair enough mate but the wins will come.

Now where are my red tinted specs............ 

We're much more difficult to break down, the spaces in midfield are not the chasms of before.

There's a level of aggression in our game, not just the pressing but the attitude of the players is more determined shown both in tackles and reactions.

Substitutions are right.

Team selections are right (no favourites).

What he talks about needing improving is spot on not the sale patter of the past but clear honest facts.

The attitude towards the press is no longer that I want to be your friend and provide you with all the information you need to create your headline / story, it's a frosty "I don't care what you think" attitude that I personally love.

If people can't see the massive improvements in managerial style and approach then they're blind and will only see it when it becomes obvious. Until that time I'll happily point out the many positives I can already see in our game.

As has been said, expecting him to come in with Origi as his starting striker and transform us into a free scoring, never stop pressing machine over-night was ridiculous, it couldn't and wouldn't happen. We're moving in that direction and when we get back players such as Benteke/Firmino/Sturridge/Ings you know our 4 main attacking threats, then people will see the ball hitting the back of the net much more regularly. It's a shame that becomes the only tool to measure with when the positives out there are clear as day to some of us.

Maybe we're just seeing what we want to see mate and none of those changes have happened.  Of course we're still nowhere near the levels we need to be or at the levels Jürgen expects in future but more players have stepped up than let us down so far, so that's enough for me to see something's working.

I still have my "eek" moments but overall I'm far less stressed out when watching us play.

It's quite nauseating to see. Nobody is criticizing Klopp but there are posters scrambling for the, "I can see an improvement already" line. Desperate stuff.

If people have seen an improvement they have seen it.

You may not have Beer that's fair enough.

Our supporters just do my head in sometimes, don't half contradict themselves.

This mess isn't Klopps fault. We have two serious problems and that is a lack of pace and a lack of width. We have about four number 10s playing in behind Origi at the moment, its just tragic to watch. We have several other problems on going but the two biggest are pace and width.

But had we played the exact same way in the previous three games under Brendan you would all be sitting here saying how sh*t we are and how he must go. The last three performances have been very average and border line poor. So its very frustrating coming on here and reading sh*te like we played well and have shown a vast amount of improvement. It simply isn't true.

In fact, it's a load of bollocks to be honest. We haven't improved. We are still a shambles. We still don't look like scoring any goals and we still look like conceding them too.

I fully expect us to improve under Klopp and I cannot wait until he starts bringing his own players in and gets rid of some of the sh*te we have on our books here, but don't come on here every week sounding like a moron saying we played well when we just didn't.

I saw Carraghers quotes that were along the lines of Klopp said he wanted to play heavy metal football but so far Liverpool have been like a school choir.  Think that's spot on personally.

And for the record, I am positive, I am excited by klopp and im CERTAIN improvement will come. But it hasn't yet. In the slightest. So I won't sit here and bullshit about it. I'll tell it how it is.

I find it kinda funny that some people on here think we haven't improved, that we are getting the same results as when BR was here. Klopp has not lost yet and I believe under BR we would have lost all three to Spuds, Rubin Kazan and Saints. How is that not an improvement under Klopp? Get a grip people he's had 9 sessions with the team and playing 3 different styles of teams. Again we have not lost yet, so calm down. We are so much better already, it's quite remarkable with the little time he's had so far. He needs time.

Our supporters just do my head in sometimes, don't half contradict themselves.

This mess isn't Klopps fault. We have two serious problems and that is a lack of pace and a lack of width. We have about four number 10s playing in behind Origi at the moment, its just tragic to watch. We have several other problems on going but the two biggest are pace and width.

But had we played the exact same way in the previous three games under Brendan you would all be sitting here saying how sh*t we are and how he must go. The last three performances have been very average and border line poor. So its very frustrating coming on here and reading sh*te like we played well and have shown a vast amount of improvement. It simply isn't true.

In fact, it's a load of bollocks to be honest. We haven't improved. We are still a shambles. We still don't look like scoring any goals and we still look like conceding them too.

I fully expect us to improve under Klopp and I cannot wait until he starts bringing his own players in and gets rid of some of the sh*te we have on our books here, but don't come on here every week sounding like a moron saying we played well when we just didn't.

I saw Carraghers quotes that were along the lines of Klopp said he wanted to play heavy metal football but so far Liverpool have been like a school choir.  Think that's spot on personally.

And for the record, I am positive, I am excited by klopp and im CERTAIN improvement will come. But it hasn't yet. In the slightest. So I won't sit here and bullshit about it. I'll tell it how it is.

I am somewhere in the middle between this post and Luke/Debs posts. I agree we don't have enough pace in the side to really hurt teams, we don't have enough quality in the side or balance in the squad at the moment, but we have improved in certain aspects of our play, just not enough to be really "feeling the difference" just yet.

Once we get our injured players back, bring in a few quality players and Klopp has time to work on the team, I am as confident as anyone that we will all see the improvements and have the results we need to back them up.   

But had we played the exact same way in the previous three games under Brendan you would all be sitting here saying how sh*t we are and how he must go.

Of course we would and we did.

Brendan was here 3 full seasons.

Jürgen has barely been here 3 weeks.

You really need the difference spelled out?

I honestly believe that many of us were expecting a massive improvement in the teams performance. But, the fact remains that,  we had,  and still do , have a poor defence and a woeful midfield.
Poor defenders and poor midfielders  will undermine any new manager. Add to this some really harmful injuries to key players .
Well , we might all just have to buckle down till January and hope good management and coaching , slowly begins to have an effect.

Of course we would and we did.

Brendan was here 3 full seasons.

Jürgen has barely been here 3 weeks.

You really need the difference spelled out?

Do you? Because I keep saying it over and over but people like you keep replying and saying 'He has been here 2 minutes and they aren't his players'.

I know that, which is why I'm not firing any criticism towards Klopp. This mess wasn't caused by him. I wasn't and I'm not expecting him to produce wonders immediately.

What I am annoyed at though and what I am criticising is people coming on here saying how well we've done when we F***ing haven't. Those people are talking utter sh*t in my opinion.

What I am annoyed at though and what I am criticising is people coming on here saying how well we've done when we F***ing haven't. Those people are talking utter sh*t in my opinion.

I haven't seen many, if any at all, coming on and going overboard.

I've seen plenty come on and say they've seen a few things that have got better or areas where they think Jürgen has made a difference.

We were poor again and have dropped yet another two points at home to a side we should be beating. For all the "improvements" we've made, there's still one rather glaringly obvious problem - we don't score enough goals.

Overall against Southampton it was hard to watch. Crowd tried their best but the players didn't respond. It was the same performances we've seen for a year and a half. Not that it's surprising because it's the same average players we've had for a year and a half by and large. A change in formation, tactics, tempo and whatever else can not make average players into world stars. It's why I don't feel we can truly judge Klopp yet nor do I feel we need to try and make out we're doing better than what we are just to try and avoid coming across like we're criticising him. A draw against Southampton at Anfield is a bad result no matter what.

Mignolet - probably had his worst game of the season and for me was partly at fault for the goal.

Clyne - has looked more like the player we bought since going back to a proper right back rather than a wing back. Was again solid down the right with little cover on numerous occasions. Got forward well to. His final ball could do with some work but when you're finding fault in a defender's attacking play, you know you've got a solid defender on your hands.

Skrtel - put in a typical Martin Skrtel performance. A beast at times, a liability at others. At the turn of the calendar year he was as good as any centre half in the country. The three at the back worked for him. This season though he's been below par for the majority of it.

Sakho - lost countless headers in the second half to Pelle, it's his man who wins the initial flick on for their goal and was quite poor throughout after two outstanding performances against Spurs and Rubin.

Moreno - has got some F***ing engine on him, he's also got one sh*t F***ing cross on him. Tends to find himself out of position too often and relies on that pace to get him out of trouble. He's probably the one defender who looked better in the back three with wing backs than a flat back four.

Milner - has learned the Scouse was instantly because he's F***ing robbing a living off this club. I've never rated him and one decent cross in a dozen or so games doesn't justify him wearing the Liverpool shirt, let alone captain this club. F***ing idiotic decision to give a free kick away which led to their goal. His all round game is giving away needless fouls, constant bookings and being walked past while he's at full pelt. Embarrassing signing, and I don't say that too often about Liverpool players.

Lucas - put in an alright performance. Broke up the play, kept the ball primarily and got around the pitch. It weren't a great performance by any means but it was comfortably better than those in the midfield with him.

Can - has very quickly become my boo boy for the season and considering we've still got Joe Allen and Adam Lallana at the club as well as the mindless signing of Milner that takes some doing. And it's because in the summer of 2014, I knew nothing about Emre Can. Truth be told I didn't even know the fella existed. But we bought him and F**k me I thought we'd signed the next major German star. He was a beast. And somehow he's gradually got worse and worse and worse to the point now it's more like Emre Can't than Emre Can. His best position is central midfield apparently, nah lad your best position right now is in the stands, you're not even worthy of a spot on the bench. sh*t passing, sh*t shooting, can't tackle, lack of discipline and a belief that he has the ability of Steven Gerrard and John Barnes in their primes when he quite clearly doesn't. All in all, the biggest disappointment of any of Rodgers' signings.

Coutinho - needs a rocket up his arse and if that doesn't sort him out then strap another rocket to him and F**k him off. Getting far too pissed off with him not doing anything of any note. He's meant to be our creative player and has been non-existent for too long. It's not a change of manager either because the last few weeks of the Rodgers reign, he was just as F***ing bad.

Lallana - was involved during his time on the pitch but I don't think he really hurt Southampton at any stage. But was overshadowing Coutinho throughout in the battle for who should be in that position.

Origi - isn't up to this level in my opinion. I always believe that you can something within a player in the first five games. They may not be world stars but you get a glimpse of something. I've seen F**k all in Origi.

Benteke - has to play whenever he's available. A boss signing, despite the critics, he's come up trumps so far. He wins most things in the air, scores goals and has put my early fears to bed, he does F***ing graft. With the issues around Sturridge, it's imperative we keep Benteke fit.

Firminho - probably put in his best performance in a Liverpool shirt so far. Couple of nice touches, some decent runs and looked a bit player than he had done previously.

Ibe - didn't get a lot of time but done more in a short space than Coutinho did in eighty odd minutes.

Overall it was a dull game and there's a lot of hard work ahead for us, but we'll still win the League!

Sorry the cap fits.

But that's my opinion and I stand by it.

People are exaggerating this "improvement," and yes, I find it nauseating.

So you find optimism nauseating, what a weird person you must be. Does pessimism and defeatism get you more excited perhaps, if so tough luck, go and support Aston Villa!!

So you find optimism nauseating, what a weird person you must be. Does pessimism and defeatism get you more excited perhaps, if so tough luck, go and support Aston Villa!!

FFS if he wanted pessimism and defeatism he would need to look no further than your posts. Have you no F***ing shame?

look ar Lallana,Lucas,Sakho all playing much better than before. the effort the lads are putting in is obvious but I agree with the Boss we are playing like if we dont win its the end of the earth. All proffesional sportsmen perform at their highest level when they feel confident and comfortable our lads look terrified.
As soon as they relax things will improve its a bit like the striker who has not score for 6 games and one goes in off his backside and all of a sudden he starts scoring again.
Looking forward to tomorrow and further improvement.

So you find optimism nauseating, what a weird person you must be. Does pessimism and defeatism get you more excited perhaps, if so tough luck, go and support Aston Villa!!

Most ironic, coming from....

FFS if he wanted pessimism and defeatism he would need to look no further than your posts. Have you no f**king shame?

Can you give me some recent examples where I've been pessimistic, by recent I mean since we got rid of that useless idiot manager we used to have? If not kindly shut up and stop trying to score cheap points, I expected a bit more from you.

Most ironic, coming from....

Not really that ironic, since I don't find optimism nauseating. I find it baffling sometimes if it's unwarranted, but at the the moment we have a fantastic manager and there is every reason to be optimistic. Cool photo though, cheers.

Can you give me some recent examples where I've been pessimistic, by recent I mean since we got rid of that useless idiot manager we used to have? If not kindly shut up and stop trying to score cheap points, I expected a bit more from you.

Yes in an ideal world I fully agree, but who would he be creating goals for at the moment, none of the players can hit a f**king barn door at the moment? :-(

Shows the level of ambition most of our players have at the moment, as long as they can run from A to B and have a pass completion of around 50% then its "GOOD JOB" in their mind! This shower of sh*te Brendan "no cups or honours" Rodgers left us with is so depressing

Who cares, the more important question is does he now how to score a goal because no one else in our midfield does, I mean what the f**k is wrong with them, they should be ashamed at their goal scoring record. If I was Klopp I would dedicate a large part of training to shooting practice for our "attackers" and fine players for missing the goal, I mean most pub teams can shoot better at goal than our lot.

Were we unlucky that they had a man sent off, I'm genuinely a bit confused how we were unlucky in that match to be honest. We only had the one shot which hit the post other than that we didn't look likely to scoring the winner. We are not even close to European quality(ie 4th) at the moment, Klopp and the other guys have a LOT of work to do, they really need to earn their wages as do most of the players.

I really really hope you are right but I'm starting to think that this group of players just don't have it, they have no fight, no passion and crucially no skill with a few, a very very few, exceptions.

I DO NOT BLAME KLOPP, I blame the players 100%. I would imagine right about now Klopp is giving them a proper bollocking becuase that level of passing and finishing is a joke at this level.

Improvement?? 35 shots and only 9 on target against 10 f**king men?? Its pathetic irrespective of who the manager is.  Klopp is probably sitting down with the owners right now going "I need a much much bigger budget than I originally thought and I need to get rid of the majority of these useless wankers who Brendan considered footballers"

Can you give me one of the positives please because I'm struggling a bit. I'm not blaming Klopp but FFS what is wrong with our players, why can't any of them shoot on target??

 how many do you want?

It's quite possible that Jürgen becoming the new manager will graphically illustrate to some posters that they were perhaps a tad harsh on the previous manager. I think to an extent that's what's going on now, people are seeing that even with an absolute top manager (which Klopp undoubtedly is) it isn't easy to win football matches with lots of average players. Naturally those who probably were a tad unrealistic previously are now falling over themselves to see improvement, whereas those who were perhaps overly supportive even on occasions can't or don't see it. It's natural.

For me, I think there has been an improvement when we don't have the ball. None of the results so far were poor ones (and the Spurs result was a good one), and my hope is that the boss continues to gradually put things together just as he has so far. One of the best things about him coming was that it united the fans, don't lets spoil it now.

For those who don't see draws as reasonable results, I would urge you to consider how many teams would win lots of games with Divok Origi up top on his own.

It's quite possible that Jürgen becoming the new manager will graphically illustrate to some posters that they were perhaps a tad harsh on the previous manager. I think to an extent that's what's going on now, people are seeing that even with an absolute top manager (which Klopp undoubtedly is) it isn't easy to win football matches with lots of average players. Naturally those who probably were a tad unrealistic previously are now falling over themselves to see improvement, whereas those who were perhaps overly supportive even on occasions can't or don't see it. It's natural.

For me, I think there has been an improvement when we don't have the ball. None of the results so far were poor ones (and the Spurs result was a good one), and my hope is that the boss continues to gradually put things together just as he has so far. One of the best things about him coming was that it united the fans, don't lets spoil it now.

For those who don't see draws as reasonable results, I would urge you to consider how many teams would win lots of games with Divok Origi up top on his own.

Harsh on Rodgers? Only if you believe he had no say in buying players like Lallana, Lovren, Allen and I would include Milner.

I think it's clear that some of the recruitment left a lot to be desired, and obviously the previous manager was culpable. So were our policies visa vid wages and age of players though, and it remains to be seen whether or not we've learned our lesson as a club (and indeed as fans, let's make sure we hold the owners to account now we finally have a manager who surely nobody could dispute is absolutely top drawer).

What I meant though by perhaps "harsh" is the criticism the manager received despite us in many cases having absolutely nobody credible who was fit enough to play up top. That isn't easy regardless of who the manager is, even when he's a brilliant one such as Jürgen undoubtedly is.