Liverpool 1:1 Southampton. In game & post match debate.

When's Henderson back anyway? Never thought I would say this... But I actually miss him

My Player Ratings:


Mignolet 7 I knew he'd be the scapegoat (yet again), but the marking on set-pieces was very ordinary in this game, Van Dyke gave us the warning in the first half, where either Lucas or Can lost him, and Mignolet made a good stop. The looped header from Ramirez who was unmarked/challenged at the back post was the fault of the defense, not Mignolet. Otherwise the keeper had nothing to do.

Clyne 7 Had a decent enough game defensively, has plenty of stamina this kid and ran up and down well enough. Similar to Moreno though he doesn't, or hasn't had the desired effect in the final third. Solid fullback.

Skertel 7 Him and Sahko handled Pelle really well, don't remember either of them getting bullied by the big man which is what has happened in the past to Skertel.

Sahko 7 Not his best game this but in tandem with Skertel proved to do enough in-game against a decent Southampton attack.

Moreno 7 So frustrating in the final third, the kid really needs to learn how to cross a ball. But that recovery tackle against Mane was almost worthy of a goal itself. Bombs up and down the line well but similar to Clyne has no end product. Frustrating to watch at times, great in the tackle on others.

Lucas 7 Shades of the needless silly fouls coming back into his game. Other than that most of our possession went through him and he has a calming effect on the team. Did enough.

Can 5 Very poor I thought. His surging runs came to nothing. He held onto the ball when he should have released it quicker, but he battled throughout. Industrious with no product effect.

Milner 6 Similar to Can, another industrious performer who lacks a bit of quality at times - full of running and got the assist.

Coutinho 6 He seems entrenched in poor form. It would be nice to see other players produce the sparkle we need instead of relying on him to do it on his own. Not his best performance and in a right slump at the mo.

Lallana 6 Again flatters to deceives - another who 'works hard' but doesn't offer anything else. Squad player at best.

Origi 4 He won't make a striker so long as he has a hole in his arse.

Benteke 7 Powerful accurate header for the goal and his presence led to a mini-surge in optimism. Couldn't see where a goal was coming from in this team, at least (and I'm not fan of target men), this fella looked threatening.

Firminho 6 Not much time to really gauge; but he hasn't showed anything thus far in a Red shirt.


Looks as though the gegenpressing has been downed since 30 mins after the Spurs match. Maybe Klopp realises this won't be sustainable in the league all season. Still looks a very Rodgers like team at the moment and Klopp can only work with what he has, he said he isn't a genius and it would take one to turn water into wine. Needs his own players IMO to help this average Liverpool side.

Have had to watch it on a delay so have literally just finished watching the game. I thought we were terrible first half and we played a bit better 2nd half but nothing to get carried away with. My observations were:

- Can was terrible, how did he play 90 minutes? I thought he looked spent after 70 minutes, was slow on the ball and cumbersome in everything he did. I'd rather have Milner in there.

- Lucas was head and shoulders above the rest of the side, mostly bailing his teammates out when they gave the ball away or pinged him another shi...tty pass when he had players on his back. The worry is that Lucas is often our best when the rest are shi...te (he won player of the year during two horrible seasons)

- We need a fookkin genuine wide player in front of Moreno. The lad is hopeless, no better than Cissoko with the ball at his feet and Cissoko is one of the worst I have EVER seen in a red shirt. Saint let him have about 30 foot of space all game because they wanted our lads to pass it to him so he could fun...k it up again. Woeful woeful player.

- what's going on with Coutinho? Didn't clap the fans when he was subbed on 82 minutes and looked like he had a sulk on. Heads gone by the looks of it. Am braced for a bid in the January window.

- Firmino looked quite bright when he came on. First time I've been able to say that.

- if the only fit striker available is Origi then play without a striker.

Moreno is no where near as bad as Cissokho on or off the ball. The lad has had a decent season and has been one of our better players. He didn't have his best game on the ball today, but look at games like Norwich to see instances when he's been our most threatening player. He's a good player and this season has shown why we bought him - he's looking good. He's also been faultless defensively.

Coutinho has had a poor start to the season. He was poor under Rodgers and he's been poor now. He started last season poorly too. People forget that the lad is still young, he needs to be allowed to have some inconsistent games. Of course he had a sulk on, he probably realises that he'd been poor. I'm curious to know where you think his head has been turned to... Barcelona have money problems at the moment so they won't be signing him; Real Madrid have better players in his position; City don't need him; Mourinho won't want him at Chelsea; Bayern are loaded in midfield. He's not going anywhere this January and I'd be surprised if he went anywhere before 2017.

This is the first time you think Firmino has looked bright? Really? Not against Norwich? Not against Arsenal?

I said this in Rodgers first season but this season isn't important anymore. We have a squad the manager doesn't rate and added to that a shed load of injuries to key players.

For me we get to 40 points asap and try to win a cup and go again next season. This squad has no right to be fighting for the top 4 because it is the work of a very confused set up.

Come on, this squad will easily hit 40 points. Easily. If we have a decent January window and improve over the next couple of months top four is easily within our grasps. Chelsea have left the door even more wide open than it was last season.

Fear is entrenched in this team and the clearest example of that is Clyne who has turned into a pub player overnight, he couldn't cntrol a ball, make a 10 yard pass and was constantly out of position. But he's not the only one Milner and Can we're just as guilty.

The only way to get some confidence in the players is to get a win fortunately we have Bournemouth next who look shot to pieces.

We just have to hope Firmino and Benteke get up to match fitness asap otherwise there is no goal threat at all. Despite the lovely flicks and turns from Lallana he is completely ineffectual in the final third. 
Coutinho is having a shocking season.

At least we didn't lose and a draw was a fair result but lots of work for Jürgen to get these players to start doing the basics correctly like keeping hold of a ball........

Genuinely cannot believe that someone would look and Clyne and say he's performing like a pub player. He quite clearly didn't give away the ball because of an inability to pass. He had a relatively high pass completion. He's been faultless defensively in every game excluding the Kazan one where you could blame him or Skrtel depending on who you want to slaughter.

Bit worrying too how Cou has performed so far under Klopp, hopefully he turns it around soon..

I'm not worried and I do think he'll turn it around, but it's not ideal that he's going through a bad spell when we're without two of our three best players (Henderson and Sturridge, with Coutinho being the third).

Clyne, even for all his miss hits, has been solid all season. To call him a pub team player I think is weird actually. He's been almost flawless.

Yep, spot on. Certainly defensively. I can see an argument that he maybe hasn't offered as much offensively as you would like, but defensively he's been excellent.

Just seen their goal. Oh dear.

Migs is not good enough because he cannot nor does not command his area
Skrtel is not good enough because he backs off too much
Moreno is not good enough because the guy can't cross or shoot
Can is not good enough because he doesn't have a footballing brain - he's all energy with little direction
Milner is not good enough out wide because he's no creative player, he's industrious and hard working
Lallana is not good enough because his end product/final ball is next to nothing
Coutinho is not good enough because he's too inconsistent and disappears for too many games a season
Origi is not good enough because like Balotelli, he's too immobile and needs a second striker alongside him
Lovren is not good enough because his positional sense is not good enough

Sakho, Clyne, Lucas, Sturridge, Henderson, Ings (as a first choice sub at least), Gomez Firmino and Benteke are good enough. Balotelli and Markovich are not even at the club

That's the problem as I see it, and as good as Klopp might be, nothing but a busy transfer window can put it right.

Moreno is quite clearly good enough. A fullback doesn't have to be brilliant at crossing if you coach him instead to try and work by using cut backs as City's fullbacks do. What basis do we have to say he can't shoot? Should a full back necessarily be brilliant at shooting?
Milner isn't good enough for us, but he's good enough for City? Seriously? He's a decent enough player. The problem comes when we're relying on him to be a key player and expect him to play every single week.
So Coutinho has, what, his first patch of bad form in a year and suddenly he's not good enough? That's absolutely ridiculous.
Origi has played less than half a dozen games.

Just seen their goal. Oh dear.

A real balls up that was.

How the hell is Moreno coming in for so much stick? He was one of the better players today, and while his decision making is poor at times - I.e. Like floating a cross as opposed to drilling it - he offers much going forward and was much more solid defensively today than the majority of his time here. Technically very sound and a lot of potential there to work on.

Clyne on the other hand had an appalling game. Needs to step it up big time and get back to the solidity he offered at the start of the season.

A real balls up that was.

I think Klopp remarked that this was because of a lack of aerial challenges against a big side like Southampton. Poor defending from set-pieces. But I also agree with Klopp, that generally (in-game) we defended well.

Ether that or sell him to La Liga in January... He hasn't looked interested at all since Rodge was binned..

He had poor games under Rodgers too. He has half a dozen poor games and now he's not good enough for us? Seriously?

He has been awful the last two games.

One thing that is really missing at the moment is pace. None of our forward players scare the opposition at the moment, real shame Ibe has lost his form at the wrong time.

In what way was he awful today? I don't think he was awful against Kazan either, despite being partially at fault for their goal.

I don't think we were anywhere near as bad as some of you have been saying.

Not perfect by any stretch but I've seen enough to suggest we will improve more as the weeks move on.

No, it's no where near as bad as some are saying in here. Two or three additions and a couple of players returning from injury will solve a lot of our issues.

Mignolet - 6 He saved us on that set piece. Didn't have much to do otherwise. Did what he had to and made no major mistakes.

Clyne - 7 He was fine defensively and did his job. Southampton didn't offer much from open play and he played a part in making sure that was the case. He's unfortunate to have to play next to Skrtel, who is the definite weak link in that defence at the moment. Ideally he'd offer more going forward, but if we can get Moreno to perfect his attacking game, a more conservative full back on the other side might not be such a bad thing.

Skrtel - 5 You could consistently see him dropping deeper than the rest of our defence. He's a decent enough defender individually, but he hurts the rest of our defence rather than helps them.

Sakho - 6 He was okay. He made one error, but other than that he was solid enough.

Moreno - 8 Worryingly, still looks like one of our biggest threats. He's an excellent outlet and offers us quite a bit of pace. He should have set Lallana up for a tap-in and his crossing isn't great, but he's a good player and I'm glad we have him. He also made an absolutely incredible tackle which was massive. He's defensively sound and that was where he needed to improve upon from last season. He and Sakho look like they could solidify their places as the left side of our defence for the next few years, injuries permitting.

Can - 3 A 3 might be generous. He is one of the most idiotic footballers I have seen. I'm not sure why it didn't occur to him that after trying to walk through the entire Southampton team 9 times, that on the 10th time it wouldn't work. Constantly ran into Southampton players after holding onto the ball too long. Often times there were better passes on. He's clearly a talented player, but I'm still not sure what his position is and I'm still not sure he has the brains to play at the highest level.

Milner - 5 Ran around a bit, but was fairly poor. Very nice cross for the goal. Other than that a relatively poor performance and he has to improve. I hope Klopp is willing to drop him despite the fact that he's the vice captain. He's another midfielder who lacks any sort of intelligence.

Lucas - 8 Almost everything came through him. He was the only midfielder who played with any sort of intelligence whatsoever. His passing was good and he generally broke their play up very well.

Lallana - 7 He was decent. Was involved in most of the good things we did going forward.

Coutinho - 5 He's out of form at the moment. He needs a couple of games out. He's so talented and some of the stick he's received has been unwarranted, but he's clearly not at his best. He has to stop shooting. Not helped by playing with only one player ahead of him, especially when it was Origi for a large part of the game. He needs to play deeper and should be part of the 3 in the 4-3-2-1, rather than the 2.

Origi - 4 He was awful. One of the major reasons that we struggled. Didn't see any of the impressive hold up play we saw against Spurs. He has to improve. He's been given a decent chance and hasn't really claimed a place in the team. He's been disappointing so far, but it's still early.

Benteke - 7 Completely changed our game when he came on. He was good. He scored a nice goal and generally looked lively and was much more threatening than Origi. He has to start.

Feel sorry for Jürgen, inheriting misfits signed by hi predecessor and trying to stop the rot ! These players need to realise the way they are playing nobody else would sign them in the premiership

Completely agree. It will be very interesting to see what happens in the transfer window. I would expect to see some Bundesliga players coming to Anfield soon.

Mignolet has to go. He has no command of the box or the back line. He is indecisive and completely lacks confidence. He might make a good save here and there but he cannot play a complete game. Look at the stats after we score, we invariably concede within 10 minutes. This has to stop.

Also, I like Can playing in the midfield but cannot stand watching him run with the ball. I sometimes think he targets the defender and just runs into him on purpose. He lacks vision on the pitch and needs to start creating chances for Beneteke and Coutinho

That kind of goal for them was coming. They must've had 3 or 4 of those types of chances before one of them went in - all from Moreno's wing if i recall.

Moreno - gets in to great positions in the final third but can't find an end product to save his life. Shot when he should've crossed and when he did cross, it was about 40 yards off the mark. Made a brilliant tackle on Mané in the penalty area but i still don't think he should be sliding around like that in our box. Any mistake and it's a penalty. Can't mark a winger to save his life.

Sakho - imperious once again on the ball. Solid in defence.

Clyne - needs to improve his link up play with his winger and midfield. Gives it away too often.

Can - struggling. Has the ability to run and pass but too often he can't do it when he has a defender to deal with.

Lucas - MOTM again. He is outstanding. Surely no one can doubt him or want him sold still.

Coutinho - shooting ban.

Origi - football ban.

Lallana - looked good again. Always busy.

Milner - other than the cross he was disappointing again. Loves a foul and he's suspended for the next game.

Benteke - looked good when he came on. Hoping he stays fit and can build on it.

Firmino - see above.

Brutal having to wake up at 3am for that to feel 10 minutes of ecstasy and then crushing disappointment.

Won't dwell into details as most have summed it up before me. Moreno needs a slap across the chops just so frustrating so much raw pace and gets in to good positions but has zero end product and still as suspect in defence. Clyne seems to have regressed under Klopp and I thought that was his poorest performance for us he set himself a high standard though in the first ten games or so.

Can as frustrating as Moreno would see him have a more central role though but Lucas was my MOTM though so deserves to keep that place.

One of the finest headers in a long time Big Ben's one shame it was to no avail though as we conceded another soft goal.

Really tired of Mignolet that experiment is over we need to address it in January.

Ether that or sell him to La Liga in January... He hasn't looked interested at all since Rodge was binned..

Do you think he might be pining for Rodgers.

this is the scary thing for me. Skrtel and Milner are good Premier League players. Lucas is a good Liverpool player and Premier League player. that's 3 out of 11 that are good Premier League players. our opponent, anyone who watches football and knows about English football could see, were a much better Prem team with better Prem players. as I was thinking this I looked around the pitch to see our players and it was alarming. everyone we rely on is young and inexperienced but we act as though they should be the next Fernando Torres. I know that Henderson and Benteke will help us out a lot and Firmino is going to be a great player but it will all take time.

sometimes and reading some posts, I get ''confused''
some say some of our players are not good enough, or not good at all
than I lookat other teams, not going to mention city, chelsea.,arsenal
But seeing other teams' players, like Leicester, WH, spuds saints etc,etc  who are  looking better than us in the table
when you look at their players individualy , are they that better nearly all than our players in their respective role?
I say NO,  and that's my humble opinion,
 we have to give time to the new manager to get this squad playing like he wants, and lets hope this  will happen soon enough
even by adding 1/2 others in January
YNWA

Moreno is quite clearly good enough. A fullback doesn't have to be brilliant at crossing if you coach him instead to try and work by using cut backs as City's fullbacks do. What basis do we have to say he can't shoot? Should a full back necessarily be brilliant at shooting?

True, a fullback doesn't have to be brilliant at shooting. I think my main issue with Moreno is that he lacks composure in the final third. I thought he did good in the defending department; that last ditch tackle he made was one of the best you'll see all season. If he can make better decisions going forward I think we'll have a good fullback on our hands.

Milner isn't good enough for us, but he's good enough for City? Seriously? He's a decent enough player. The problem comes when we're relying on him to be a key player and expect him to play every single week.

I agree we shouldn't make him a key player. My point about Milner is that he's not really creative enough (at least that's what I thought until he put in that cross from which Benteke scored!) I see Milner more as a high energy tackling midfielder who can win the ball back and shore up the defence.

So Coutinho has, what, his first patch of bad form in a year and suddenly he's not good enough? That's absolutely ridiculous.

Fair enough. I was wrong to suggest he isn't good enough, full stop. My issues with Coutinho though, is that he can be a brilliant match winner one game, then go missing in the next. I'm probably being a bit unfair to him but it's because I expect more from him. I just get frustrated because he seems too inconsistent.

Origi has played less than half a dozen games.

True. I don't think he will thrive as a lone striker though. I think he'd benefit from being part of a two man attack formation. Hope I'm wrong and he starts to shine up front on his own. He's young still, so he can develop.

Thought Firmino started to look up to speed.

Showed some nice touches and he seems to have good close ball control.

Was another good draw, but really should have been a good win.

ffs. milner did great for Big Bens goal, then falls asleep at the back post for their goal. man of his experience should know better.

Again punished for individual mistakes. same old story.

But all round solid again, and when Big Ben & Firmino came on, we look more dangerous.

Its getting there folks, I predict some wins just round the corner.

Does this mean a fit Coutinho and a fit Firmino will be fighting it out between them for a place in the starting 11? Or do they play in different positions. Not sure.

A draw was a fair result but bloody annoying. I can see progress from game to game and that is very encouraging. We need to drop Continho for a few games though, not sure what's wrong with him.

Was another good draw, but really should have been a good win.

ffs. milner did great for Big Bens goal, then falls asleep at the back post for their goal. man of his experience should know better.

Again punished for individual mistakes. same old story.

But all round solid again, and when Big Ben & Firmino came on, we look more dangerous.

Its getting there folks, I predict some wins just round the corner.

Hope we can negotiate that corner in our next game 'cos if we beat those horrible chav cu*ts the word is their horrible c**t of a manager gets his orders.

like with any draw... It can be seen as a good or bad result!!

Im happy... I want more but overall I am happy