Liverpool 1-2 Crystal Palace: In game and Post Match debate

Well there we have it. Re wind a couple of days to the Rubin thread and I said we didn't play very well in terms of creating chances and I got slaughtered for it. I was told to ignore our average displays and to ignore us looking like a league 2 side when we go forward and just enjoy the recent results. Posters said 'I'm sure people want us to lose just so they can be proven right'. So I left it by saying palace will be the real test for us and not some pub team from Russia and I hate to say I told you so but I told you so.

We had a lot of possession today but it was almost identical to the Rubin game. We did very little with the ball and we look awful in the final third yet again. We just don't look like we can score goals. When was the last time somebody felt like we would paste a team by 3 or 4 goals? We look so average when we attack.

It was going to be sooner or later we would get found out and that's what happened today. We came up against a side who have goals in them and defensively they are sound. I saw this result coming a mile off.

I refer to benteke, who didn't do too badly indivudally, but he is a large reason why our attack is so sh*t. He is too static and that's just fact. He doesn't move across the back line so he doesn't stretch the defence or make space for others. He's crying out for some decent service which he's not going to get from Ibe Lallana or Coutinho who all play on the ball and don't make any crosses.

Another big problem is Emre can. Without sounding harsh on the lad I can't be the only person who thinks he is awful? He is no better than Joe Allen when he is on the ball. Physically he puts it about a little more than Allen but on the ball he is tragically sh*t. He is far better in defence than he is midfield. He needs dropping ASAP.

Mignolet - one or two decent saves. Haven't seen the replay but he looked like he made a mess of their second goal from where I was. He is too slow kicking or throwing the ball out. And then the rare times you want him to keep hold of the ball for a second or two longer he throws it out and puts somebody under pressure! He's thick basically.

Clyne - thought he had a decent game. Solid. Got forward to support when he could. Final ball could have been a bit better at times and he was beaten by zaha a couple of times too but overall very sound game.

Skrtel - had a good game overall.

Lovren - thought he was solid.

Moreno - awful today. Why is he on set pieces? He can't cross for sh*t! Got beaten a couple of times by bolasie too. His final ball was awful today. Sh*t out of a few tackles too.

Lucas - steady game. Wasn't as effective as he has been recently but still did OK.

Can - poor. Offers nothing. Sh*t on the ball.

Ibe - involved a lot but held onto the ball too long at times and dribbled into trouble. Needs to pass or shoot earlier. One of our better players though.

Lallana - thought he was sh*te. Not involved.

Coutinho - slightly better than Lallana. Good finish for the goal. Wasn't as involved as he usually is though.

Benteke - perhaps should have got on the score sheet but he did OK, held it up at times and made a couple of nice lay offs, but he needs to move and start stretching defences more and create space for our 'flair' players. I'm still far from convinced he is suited to the way we play football even though it's clear on his day and if you provide him with service he is a real handful.

Overall a gash result, a mediocre performance. Again sorry to say it, but seen it coming. Hopefully some people will realise we ARE sh*t attacking teams and take their tinted glasses off now. 

Good for you! You got the result right!

However, did your foresight show you how Migs gave them the points that they never deserved?

We were always going to eventually lose a game that's football.

Not overly concerned we are probably where we are to be expected under the Klopp transformation.

First thing I would do is get the lads doing shooting practice, it's criminal to have that many shots in the box and only score once. So still the same issues of creating chances but not taking them.

Benteke was infuriating today as he was on Thursday, not for his misses but some of the runs he makes are just amateurish.
Every time someone runs with the ball he just gravitates towards the ball, even the lads I have just been playing with tonight know that as a striker you need to create space for yourself and others by dragging defenders away.
His lack of intelligent movement was something I always feared before we signed him and it looks like Klopp will have a job on his hands.

Mignolet back to his default standard.

And finally some of our fans shithouses we don't deserve Klopp...........

Benteke's movement in the box is poor. It's not just that he moves towards the ball, he also moves towards defenders. Many instances today the player was in position to cross the ball and Benteke is giving them no option to find him without the perfect pass. At that point if he does score I don't put the emphasis of credit on the striker but the crosser. Anyone will score with perfect crosses, what defines strikers from each other is doing something the other can't.

Suarez is king of finding space in the box, as was Fowler and Rush before him. You need to make a double movement and it has to be dynamic, you can't just waltz around at turtle speed moving in one direction and think you're going to get the ball placed in perfect position for you. Force the error and make them have to make decisions. It's simple yet bloody hard to coach. Too often players drift with the movement of the ball when moving in the opposite direction is actually how you'll create the opportunity either for yourself or you'll drag the defender away from that zone allowing someone (of which we need more than just Firmino) to move into that space and have an easier chance.

It's probably why I don't like big tall target men, you can say it's stereotyping but smaller guys like Ings and Suarez will create more for others as well as themselves in a congested box. Of course the big men will still score the odd header because of their size but the way we cross the ball at the moment it just isn't conducive. I honestly believe losing Ings is a huge loss for us currently.

I'm worried about Emre.  There's a player in there, maybe, but he isn't ready. 

Plenty of people seem to rate him highly on little more basis than 'he's a beast,' or 'he gives us a physical presence.'  The last one may be true, but he needs to learn to be decisive in his passing, to attack space and lay off quickly, to play safe in the defensive third and to get his head up straight away and look for the odd long pass to a forward in space.  I don't think he knows yet what position is his, or how to play to his own strengths.  I hate criticizing such a promising young lad, but I just think he's a loan candidate for now.  I suppose I'll get tw*tted for saying that!

I'm worried about Emre.  There's a player in there, maybe, but he isn't ready. 

Plenty of people seem to rate him highly on little more basis than 'he's a beast,' or 'he gives us a physical presence.'  The last one may be true, but he needs to learn to be decisive in his passing, to attack space and lay off quickly, to play safe in the defensive third and to get his head up straight away and look for the odd long pass to a forward in space.  I don't think he knows yet what position is his, or how to play to his own strengths.  I hate criticizing such a promising young lad, but I just think he's a loan candidate for now.  I suppose I'll get tw*tted for saying that!

I understand where you are coming from and Can did have a poor game but interestingly for me we lost the midfield once he went off.
If Can was to go off then either Tex or Allen should have replaced him

Firmino should have replaced Lallana who again flattered to deceive.

I understand where you are coming from and Can did have a poor game but interestingly for me we lost the midfield once he went off.
If Can was to go off then either Tex or Allen should have replaced him

You're right, but I'm not sure how much was due to general tiredness - Lucas seemed jaded.  We do need 2 back there.  Can needs to be able to do 3 jobs in the current set-up, defend, make runs and pass/cross.  Lucas' game plan is simple and effective (so he does it well), while Can's seems complex and, for him, impossible to do well.

Lallana needs a definite role, he seems to get all across the front four, and no-one seems to anticipate what he's doing to do.
Firmino I think should only come on in place of either Couts (I know he scored) or Lallana - the three of them offer something too similar.

Sign Paul Pogba

Big, strong, and can play as well as anyone

And would cost around £70m...

Thought Jürgen made his first mistake for us today - replacing Can with Firmino. We got bullied in midfield after that, with Lucas our only real ball-winner. Up to that point I thought we were the better side ( even if not by much).

To be fair Can had a poor game, especially the first half where his passing was very sloppy and didn't cover himself in glory with their first goal. Our midfield 2 of Lucas and Can didn't look like creating anything so changing it up for a creative player wasn't a bad call IMO. Lucas was having a better game than Can and is more reliable so I'm not all that surprised by the change. If Benteke had taken more of his chances and if Migs hadn't gifted them a 2nd goal then the change would have been praised.

It's one of them where he gambled and it was at least a gamble with the right intentions but once again it was individual errors that has cost us.

Perhaps he's thinking that a few of them have travelled a long way to see a Liverpool team who yet again can't produce a dangerous corner or score a goal if their lives depended on it, plus maybe he realises that a few of them want to get their cars from the car parks before all the roads get jammed and they have to add an extra 40 minutes to their journey time home.

No, mate. This was what he was thinking:
"I turned around and saw them (the fans) go. I felt pretty alone at this moment."

Played well in parts and created plenty of chances.

But we have substandard players in key positions ... goalkeeper, centre half and centre forward.

With a half decent goalkeeper and a half decent striker today we would have won easily.

The same failings are costing us ... its a big job for klopp to sort it out ... but he will given time.

True

If fans have to be home so much that they need to leave ten minutes before the end of the game, DON'T F*CKING GO THEN. Leave the ticket in the box office so someone who wants to watch the whole 90 minutes buys it. 

Must have watched a very different game than anybody else on here but I thought we looked lively at moments and there were flashbacks of the 2013/14 season all that was needed was the SAS to put them to the sword.

We were very wasteful and got into some very good positions but failed to convert it either through poor decision making or  execusion. Benteke should have had a brace at least if not more but it was just one of those days for him. I think a lot on here are nor giving Palace any credit they are a decent side and probably have the quickest midfield and forward line in the league their transition play is second to none.

Usual bullshit from Mignolet on set pieces with shocking decision making with the ball at his feet deserves a leathering from Big Mama for putting him in the sh*t twice. Can was very poor also in doing the basics but found himself in good positions and it  showed when he came off.

The whole crowd bit leaving as soon as we conceded is nothing new it's become part and parcel of the "experience" it's only been thrown into the spot light now because of Klopp's comments.

Sign Paul Pogba

Big, strong, and can play as well as anyone

And would cost around £70m...

If he costs £70m I'll eat a cat

I just want to know what brand of crack cocaine the 7 people who voted Nathaniel Clyne as MOTM we're taking cause that must be some crazy stuff.

I just want to know what brand of crack cocaine the 7 people who voted Nathaniel Clyne as MOTM we're taking cause that must be some crazy stuff.

Make that 8 after my vote.

I can get you some real cheap.

Keep watching their winning goal because I'm a glutton for punishment. Mignolet is just awful. Hope to see the ginger Buffon in goal next time out. He's had two cracking matches and Mignolet has been his usual sh*t self. Can't lose anything trying him out.

And I still don't know how Benteke didn't score a hat trick.

Another annoying moment was seeing pricks leave when they scored. It was 88 minutes and I was still thinking we could even win, we created that many chances to score.

Hopefully a blip and a loss where Jürgen learns a valuable bit more about the team (like Emre needs a swift boot up the arse) that we can take and learn in to the next match.

Not something that should be said having spent £200mill on players in 2 summers.

To be fair, the manager hasn't been helped with injuries. Sturridge, Henderson, Ings, Gomez, Rossiter, Flanagan, Toure, Milner, and so on.

Make that 8 after my vote.

I can get you some real cheap.

Hahah, message me a number.

Messing, but in all seriousness I just though he was poor, I said mysefl I thought it was the worst game he has had for us, to be fair though there wasn't much choice in the MOTM department for us

To be fair, the manager hasn't been helped with injuries. Sturridge, Henderson, Ings, Gomez, Rossiter, Flanagan, Toure, Milner, and so on.

True but Milner and Toure were Free, Flanno and Rossiter came through the club, Gomez was cheap, Ings is still yet to be settled and Hendo and Sturridge have been here a while now so I still want to know where our £200m of players are...

Not to mention Rossiter was never going to be more than the odd game this season, Toure never plays, Flanno has been out over a year and Sturridge has been out for basically a year now and Milner has hardly been hampered this season,

Didn't see any of it in the end - kid's taxi..........verdict?

Progress in play, setback in result?

Setback full stop, players not good enough?

Wasn't the worst defeat I've seen this season - didn't throw in the towel like we did against United and West Ham.

Pleased that he made an attacking sub to try and get the three points.  Like everyone says - draws are the devil.  Better to win half and lose half than draw them all.

There you go. As Klopp has found out, reminiscent to the Rafa era you play a strong side in some European backwater and arrive home at 3am on a Friday morning, you won't get 110% from the same players come a couple of days later. The Premiership isn't as forgiving and we looked jaded where Palace looked like the team who were winning all the 50/50's and second balls.


Mignolet 6 While he wasn't at fault with either goal, his kicking and distribution are still poor.

Clyne 7 Our best player on the night. Clyne had his hands full on the defensive side of things but did his job well. He also marauded down the flank and gave us some width.

Skertel 7 Alongside Clyne had a decent game, didn't do too much wrong and seems to be coping in Klopp's higher line.

Lovren 6 Did his job without a calamitous cameo.

Moreno 6 Worked the flank as well as Clyne, though in the build up to Palace's first goal he was the first point of call in a meek  attempt to challenge for the ball from where their player pushed out wide to cross it into the box.

Can 4 Poor performance from him. Cushioned the cross to Bolasie and T'd him up nicely for their first goal. Had no impact on the game whatsoever.

Lucas 6 Felt sorry for him a bit, especially as Klopp made the Firmino sub, exposing him in the middle to Palace's pacey, physical counter attacks. Prior to that, he was his usual reassured self.

Lallana 5 Doesn't really have the jaded excuse of most others and again fails to impose his quality on a game. Disappointing.

Ibe 6 Looked bright earlier on, faded and seemed to sh*t himself when on his left foot.

Coutinho 6 Scored again. Went missing a bit, then came back into the game. The only player in our side who actually looks as though he can get the crowd on their feet.

Benteke 3 F***ing awful. Origi's big brother? No anticipation, sh*t movement, slow and well off the pace - a terrible performance from the lad who should have at least scored one goal.

Emre is truly irritating, the weak soft clearance to bolosie that resulted in the first goal conceded was the 2nd time I saw similar mistake from him from an earlier game this season and both incident resulted in us conceding goals and 6 points. Does he ever learn from his mistakes?

You're right, but I'm not sure how much was due to general tiredness - Lucas seemed jaded.  We do need 2 back there.  Can needs to be able to do 3 jobs in the current set-up, defend, make runs and pass/cross.  Lucas' game plan is simple and effective (so he does it well), while Can's seems complex and, for him, impossible to do well.

Lallana needs a definite role, he seems to get all across the front four, and no-one seems to anticipate what he's doing to do.
Firmino I think should only come on in place of either Couts (I know he scored) or Lallana - the three of them offer something too similar.

I think Henderson coming back will make a huge difference as he can do all the things necessary for that role whereas Emre can't consistently yet.

I would actually like Lallana, Coutinho, and Firmino to play together. With those three you would have players interchanging and creating a really fluid attacking system. When Ibe or Milner is in it leaves Coutinho and Lallana interchanging but no one moving and swapping on the right side.

I think Henderson coming back will make a huge difference as he can do all the things necessary for that role whereas Emre can't consistently yet.

I think people are massively underrating how important Henderson is to us. He is the engine of the team. Without him we have to jerry-rig an engine with many different people and it is not working. I think Hendo, Milner and Lucas in a midfield of 3 will definitely help us get more control of these games and put them away when we should.

I trust beerbelly was joking about it not being Migs fault for the second goal?!

He "punched" it straight back to Scott Dann FFS! A truly awful goalkeeper, that occasionally makes a flash looking save or dive. That does not constitute a good goalkeeper!