Do Liverpool play better without Benteke?

Play a mobile forward and watch the others move too. Look at the Chelsea, City and Southampton displays. The movement was phenomenal at times especially against City.

Benteke is static and doesn't create any space on the pitch for the other players to move in to. When we have possession when Benteke is in the side then we are always out of ideas. There is nobody to pass the f**king ball too and there is no space to pass the ball in to. Its so easy to defend against.

Benteke needs somebody who will run to the byline and whip a cross in. He needs somebody like Lennon or Valencia (when they were in their prime) and we don't have anybody like that.

We have three or four number 10s who like to interchange with each other, keep the ball moving, take up each others positions, play keep ball, break teams down, play through balls.

We don't have any players who put their foot on the ball, looks up and aims for Bentekes head. The problem with Benteke is he waits for a chance rather than making one for himself and that won't work with the players we have here. He isn't on the same wavelength as our other attacking players.

Some people are determined to defend the Benteke signing because of what they said in his transfer thread a few months ago. Unless Klopp brings in a few players who will play to his strengths then I don't want to see Benteke start for us and he has no future here for me.  I don't know why Klopp would do that though because we've already ripped the champions and city apart with the players we already have here.

In my eyes we should build the team around Coutinho. We shouldn't be building it around Benteke. But if Jürgen does build his team around Benteke then we will need to sign 4 or 5 players and I can't see how any of Coutinho, Firmino, Lallana, Sturridge will fit in.

We'll have to wait and see what Jürgen can do with him and this group of players given a reasonable amount of time first but my feeling based on what we've seen so far is that you are right, as a team we do play better without Benteke.

We demolished city without a proper striker because of the coordination and intensity of our pressing and the quality of our interplay. Fast, incisive free-flowing football.

Whilst Benteke is good for a goal (and has some very impressive individual qualities) my feeling at this point is that he may not be the best fit for the team. That's not to say he can't still be a very useful player, though.

Going to wait for another season where manager can actually do a full pre-season with the team he wants to settle on Benteke. I mean he has proved he can do it in the league.

We need some consistency instead of these massive team cycles really cant get anything cohesive going.

And if credit goes to Jürgen for getting the best out of him if it happens then it doesn't matter we win in the end.

"Do we play better without Benteke?"


Is the sky blue?

Some people are determined to defend the Benteke signing because of what they said in his transfer thread a few months ago.

All day. It's as if they think others don't want it to work when really, people are only calling it as they see it. Some people are very hung up on being right. Same with Milner who has also blew hot and cold.

Interesting article I read this morning

Do Liverpool play better without Benteke

Liverpool are taking solace in Jürgen Klopp’s words, at the moment. Just like it was after the Crystal Palace game, that tinge of disappointment, that pang of resentment, is soothed by what the German is saying.

The critics of Christian Benteke would be well-advised to do the same.

Not that the Belgian doesn’t deserve the criticism he is receiving for a disappointing display. Lethargic, largely toothless. Static. When he did have a chance presented to him, six yards out, he scooped it over the bar. His withdrawal, just after the hour, was the obvious choice.



As he left the field, the correlation had already begun to be drawn. Another start for Benteke, another disjointed showing for the Reds.

It has happened before. The wins against Bordeaux and Swansea, as well as the defeat at home to Crystal Palace, all featured the 25-year-old as a lone striker. All three games brought different results, but a similar sense of frustration over performance.

This wasn’t Benteke’s fault, of course. In fact, against the Ligue 1 side, he was dominant; winning the penalty, and then scoring the winner, the Belgian looked every inch of his 75 and every million of his 32.5. Behind him, however, the team toiled. The fluidity was missing.

Under Klopp, his most impressive appearances have been fleeting; off the bench, in their faces. He transformed the game against Chelsea, and made the City win safe with some good forward play. But those two games, as well as the 6-1 hammering of Southampton, were undoubtedly the most impressive under the new manager. Most of the damage was done with Benteke on the bench.

Natural, then, that eyebrows have been raised - particularly after Sunday.

The Argument Against Benteke's inclusion

A remarkable stat arose after the Newcastle defeat. In games Benteke starts, Liverpool score 1.12 goals per 90 minutes. Without Benteke, that rises to 1.91 per 90 minutes. When Benteke is used as a substitute, the Reds score an astonishing 3.24 goals per 90 minutes.

Certain circumstances should be accounted for, of course. Seven of those goals came in wins at Stamford Bridge and the Etihad, two games which saw the Reds profit from plenty of space to manoeuvre in. It does, however, solidify the prevailing sense that Benteke has looked best as a late battering ram, brought on to put the squeeze on opponents further.

Klopp’s style of play does not necessarily lend to Benteke. Not so far, at least. The trio of Adam Lallana, Roberto Firmino and Philippe Coutinho were magical against Chelsea and City; at Southampton, the two Brazilians were out, but the dynamic duo of Daniel Sturridge and Divock Origi were able replacements. Five goals between them would suggest so, at least.

Through no real fault of the former Aston Villa man, his team-mates will often look to launch the long ball; get the ball out wide; scrap the intricacy, and serve the immovable. Newcastle’s defenders were happy to block crosses and head balls away, rather than deal with the spirals and pirouettes on the turf.

Players such as Firmino, Ibe, Sturridge, Coutinho and Lallana are all of the same ilk. Benteke, for now, feels a little disconnected from that.

The Argument For Benteke's inclusion

Yet Klopp wanted him at Dortmund. He was identified as a player he could work with and mould. There have been some poor buys up front during his time in Germany - Adrian Ramos and Ciro Immobile, for example - but Lewandowski and Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang highlight Klopp can spot a striker.

Benteke is a striker, and a good one at that. Perhaps he is a player who needs the team to play to his strengths, but he is still capable of being part of a team. His pressing was poor on Tyneside but, at home, he looks far more vibrant.

He did not receive much service on Sunday. He must adapt his game, perhaps, but so must his team-mates. Firmino was also poor, while Ibe found promising positions but lost the ball too often.

It is too soon to write off a player, or his importance to a result, after one bad performance. The price tag - which he didn’t set, nor did Klopp pay - makes it a little bit more difficult for supporters to wait, but he is still just 15 games into what has been a stop-start Liverpool career.

His goals, in terms of minutes on the pitch, verges on one-in-two. As goals against Bordeaux, Chelsea and Bournemouth prove, he scores goals at a decisive time in the game. A scorer of great goals, but not a great goalscorer for Klopp. Yet.

That could come. It is for him, his team-mates and the manager to decide how best to use him. It might be he is best at home, with the more dynamic front man being deployed away; it might be that he is an expensive, but effective, option off the bench. It will probably be a bit of both.

Fifteen games in, it is too early to panic. Comfort should be taken in Klopp’s words. Benteke, like the rest of this squad, and its manager, are still at the start of their story.

It’s for the Belgian to make it as lengthy as he possibly can.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-play-better-without-10564124?

I just can't see with the type of midfielders and attackers we have got it will really work with Benteke.  Yeah - maybe the likes of Ibe and Moreno even can be the type to get those quick balls to him, but we seem to be a side being built around Coutinho's, Lallana, Firmino - not what I would really call 'wide players'.

Thoughts?

Strange thing is I think he's a really good player but even before reading the article I've thought we play better without him in the team.  Odd situation, can't recall thinking that about a player in recent memory, thing is though, it's still early days with Klopp too and he mightn't have drummed into Benteke (slow to learn) what his role should be.

All day. It's as if they think others don't want it to work when really, people are only calling it as they see it. Some people are very hung up on being right. Same with Milner who has also blew hot and cold.

There's definitely something in that, we all would ideally like to be right if we're honest. That said, it's a very fair question and as I said earlier, based on what we've seen so far the answer is probably "yes". As I said back then, the "I said it would never work" merchants are probably ahead right now. I don't know how much more I can can "call it as I see it" than that, but there it is.

Clearly there is an issue with Benteke connecting with the rest of the team in terms of us producing really top notch performances. We won against Bournemouth in the league with him, drew against Southampton etc but you could hardly say we ripped it up. I said a few days ago that out of our four outstanding performances this season (Arsenal, Chelsea, City and Southampton away) Benteke played in only one. He did come on against Chelsea and do well, but the real sparkling stuff had already been done.

I think where I disagree with some is that I'm not prepared to give up on a 24 year old bully striker after 10 matches. Part of that is that I'd like to be right I suppose, most of it is because I think if we can unlock his potential he'll be a brilliant player and we'll win more matches, and some of it is that I've seen players like him take time to really get going before. Sometimes it just takes time to click, and I've a hunch that's where we are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ8kpx67PWE


This is Benteke at his best and it's what he is capable of but unfortunately for him we play with too many number 10s. Coutinho, Firmino, Lallana are never going to hit that type of pass to him. And Milner only hit that pass because we were looking for Plan B at that point hoping to win the game.

And for me that's what Benteke is - plan B option. He's great to bring off the bench if you're searching for a goal when you want to start lumping the ball into the box and likewise he is great to bring off the bench when you're holding on to a slight lead and need somebody to hold the ball up there.

Because we spent a bomb on him we are looking at ways to put him into the team but it just doesn't work when we stick to plan A. The harsh reality is we've spent £32.5m on a substitute.

Against Newcastle in 62 or so minutes he managed one shot, had the fewest touches of any outfield player (including substitutes) in a red shirt and had the lowest passing accuracy of 55.2%.

He's started ten games for us this season, in those games we've scored 8 goals, in the 12 games he hasn't started, we've managed 24 goals.

For me, this is a question with an easy answer because all we have to do is look at the games since Klopp has taken charge. Every time Benteke has started the game, our offense looks slow, unimaginative and stifled. We don't get the goals. Then, if you look at our 2 best performances under Klopp (Man City & Southampton), it's easy to see the differences. Especially in the Man City game, the movement of the front three was excellent, because the movement never stopped. The three created havoc, and took their chances well (although Firmino could have scored more I suppose). Southampton was slightly different in the movement, but again, there was movement. Studge and Origi had the space, and more importantly used it. I like the idea of bringing Benteke off the bench as we did against Chelsea, as the opposing defense is thrown something completely different than they've seen all game. But for now, it's either Origi (as long as we see that movement he shown in his hat trick) or Firmino up top. When Studge is healthy, bring him in, until he is injured again after that game.

I dont know about that,i like Benteke and he is a good player that knows how to score a goal but sometimes he does have the intention to suffocate the ball and the flow,like he does not know what to do with it.Sometimes he is a bit stiff(where he should not be)but i dont think that we are a better team without him.

Against Newcastle in 62 or so minutes he managed one shot, had the fewest touches of any outfield player (including substitutes) in a red shirt and had the lowest passing accuracy of 55.2%.

He's started ten games for us this season, in those games we've scored 8 goals, in the 12 games he hasn't started, we've managed 24 goals.

I tend to agree, just on the evidence we see in games.

Statistically, as you say, its clear that we score more without him.  The caveat is that the games in which he didn't start and where we scored heavily were often against teams (e.g. Man City, Chelsea, Southampton) that set up to attack us.

Those where we found it difficult to score (and in which Benteke tended to start) were against teams that set up to defend in numbers and attack only in fast counter-attacking breaks.  This suggests of course that our more mobile forwards thrive when there's more space.  So is it harsh to judge him on the stats alone?

I think we will lose games when we rely on Benteke who often misses from 5 yards.