Watford 3-0 Liverpool: In game and Post match discussion

Judging by some of Klopps starting  selections, I'm wondering if he is deliberately putting together particular permutations to see just how they perform together.
Is he really just testing what he's got, so he can make the relevant changes in Jan/summer windows.
Just a thought.

Once the heads went down we played like mice, player after player went missing yesterday, spineless leaderless, shocking performance and I can only see Leicester giving us a lesson in togetherness. Long way away from how we played against Southampton

Where would you spend the money if there was a choice mate?

I know you've mentioned a winger being a priority, just wondering where else you see our biggest problems are?

After the Watford game I see problems all over the pitch mate

I really would like to see a top quality winger for the reasons I said before and a top class goalkeeper because that could save us a lot of points, frustration and heartache as the season goes on.

Sadly I don't think we will get either. I think we will get a versatile midfield player and a fullback who can also play CB /or a CB that can play fullback (our transfer committee loves jack of all trade players). That's if we do bring any players in, as I am still a little worried that we may just wait till the summer and have a real overhaul then. Which unfortunately might mean kissing this season goodbye.

If we do bring anyone in my one hope, no matter their position, is that they are good enough to be considered as automatic first team players and not just adequate squad players.

I know we need strengthening in other areas, but a winger and a goalkeeper would keep me happy till the summer. Get Balotteli  off the books and bringing in a mobile clinical striker would be nice too... but I don't want to seem greedy!

 

We have an unbalanced squad, too many similar players, too many that don't fit a Jürgen Klopp side and too many that do or will that are either injured or out on loan. 

We are badly unbalance in the midfield where we have similar SOFT players in Lallana, Can, Cou & Firminho. Combine, we could beat any midfield available only if we takeout the physical side of the game.  These players moved 3 yards further up the pitch and we will struggle big time as players will pass thru us like a sieve as they are not the fastest or the most physical to track back to defend. Get a Masch, Jimmy Case, Steve McMahon or two and we should improve considerably. In hindsight, that could be the very reason why BR has been reluctant to go on the offensive as he knew all along  we have weak midfielders that can't defend hence they can't move too far up the pitch and needed to defend the back four. The transfer committee has fooked up big time. That's the price to pay for having a committee whom are not professional footballers themselves.   

Another bad day at the office and if rumours are to be believed Buvac ripped them all a new one after the game and that was after Jürgen had said his piece.  The softly, softly approach has gone, they either buck up or get shipped out as none of our Management will accept them losing their heads like that again.

Having said all that it's great that we're having these type of games and results as Jürgen will learn far more about the squad and the toughness of the league than if we were winning easily like we did against City, Saints and Chelsea.

We have an unbalanced squad, too many similar players, too many that don't fit a Jürgen Klopp side and too many that do or will that are either injured or out on loan.  There will be many more games this season where we scratch our heads wondering what the f**k is going on and probably as many where we're jumping around like lunatics after an amazing and unexpected win.

At this still very early stage it's pointless getting wound up and losing our sh*t even though most fans will.

Spot on Debs. Spot on!

Where'd you get that tidbit about Buvac ripping into everyone?

After the Watford game I see problems all over the pitch mate

I really would like to see a top quality winger for the reasons I said before and a top class goalkeeper because that could save us a lot of points, frustration and heartache as the season goes on.

Sadly I don't think we will get either. I think we will get a versatile midfield player and a fullback who can also play CB /or a CB that can play fullback (our transfer committee loves jack of all trade players). That's if we do bring any players in, as I am still a little worried that we may just wait till the summer and have a real overhaul then. Which unfortunately might mean kissing this season goodbye.

If we do bring anyone in my one hope, no matter their position, is that they are good enough to be considered as automatic first team players and not just adequate squad players.

I know we need strengthening in other areas, but a winger and a goalkeeper would keep me happy till the summer. Get Balotteli  off the books and bringing in a mobile clinical striker would be nice too... but I don't want to seem greedy!

 

Agree with all that mate, cheers for the reply.

I don't think we need wholesale changes.  We need a couple of players who inspire, and who the others know will be on their case if they slacken.  The mentality, the psychology of football teams is basic, really.  I'd get in Scott Dann or Ryan Shawcross (honestly!) and I'd get Milner in central midfield alongside Lucas. 
Yes we need a keeper who we can trust (but who will that be in January? - forget it), and a striker who can make a goal from nothing by being a pain in the arse to a defence, but realistically, in January the most we can hope for is a promising midfielder or two (familiar territory).
One leader, one solid lump of gob gristle, and we'll not be far off.

I had a feeling the way we conceded the first goal  we were going to be in for a long afternoon.

Disgraceful performance all around it always makes it more brutal when you stay up till 2:30 am and have to wake up at 6am to go to work on a Monday morning..nothing worse.

The lineup was popular, and we looked forward to a good win and a few goals. I had just tuned in, and before I sat down, Butterfingers#2 had us behind. His first contribution for us in the league is best forgotten. We actually played well then, coming close a couple of times, until the next goal which was a shambles at any level. After that, we packed it in until half time, and were lucky to keep the scoreline as it was. Picked it up after the break, without looking like retrieving the damage. The honeymoon period is over.

However, the state of the pitch was another factor in the result. Given how London has escaped much of the daily rainfall the rest of the wider region has endured for weeks, it was a shock to see their pitch in that condition. It was easily the worst pitch we've played in England all season, and possibly a few more seasons while we're at it. Some of our more creative players probably took one look at it, and said "don't fancy this today". The ball bobbled around like a rugby ball on it all day, very difficult for any of our players to control it and get moves going. When we found some space to run into, the ball would jump off the surface and possession would be lost. Watford was always a horrible kip to go and play in, even though it's better than it was in the 70/80's, but teams are finding it as hard to get results out of there now, as they did then.

For us, it's back to the drawing board. It doesn't seem like weeks that we were relishing the prospect of going to City and Chelsea. Now we're bricking it over a game at home to an workmanlike bunch of upstarts. It's that kind of season. 

However, the state of the pitch was another factor in the result.

I agree mate, the pitch was a shocker for players who are more used to playing on snooker table like pitches these days. Certainly it was a "leveller" as far as skill was concerned. On pitches like that it is the character and determination of the players which will have a greater influence than their technical ability ... and so it just highlighted what we have been lacking for quite a while now. I don't think the team selected did us any favours though, on such a pitch it might have been an idea to play a couple of our more "robust" players from the start such as Origi and Benteke rather than the fragile flowers such as Firmino, Lallana and Coutinho.

Obviously this would have made little difference to our defensive problems in the game, but at least it might have given Watford a few more problems to worry about.

However, the state of the pitch was another factor in the result. Given how London has escaped much of the daily rainfall the rest of the wider region has endured for weeks, it was a shock to see their pitch in that condition. It was easily the worst pitch we've played in England all season, and possibly a few more seasons while we're at it. Some of our more creative players probably took one look at it, and said "don't fancy this today". The ball bobbled around like a rugby ball on it all day, very difficult for any of our players to control it and get moves going. When we found some space to run into, the ball would jump off the surface and possession would be lost.

Com'on It was the same for Watford's player as it was for us.... That dog don't hunt

Sorry mate, bad pitch always favours a team playing simple, or as Jürgen put it "easy" football, so the point about a "leveller" is valid IMO. Once I saw short videos of the teams warm-up before the game, and our "walk the ball into the net or go burst" attacking line I knew we were going to have hard times.

I'd have any arguments about the pitch if it were kept under wraps for six months prior to the match, then in a grand unveiling ceremony ten minutes before kick off we all got to look at it. Then we'd go "oh f*** me all these fancy Dan ponces are going to be uselsss on this" and I'd be full of sympathy. I'd have similar arguments about the weather if we had to pick our team in June, only to discover that ("oh FFS") we're playing in December and it's a bit windy. Similarly, when we played WBA last week and they were good at set-pieces, if they'd never shown any evidence of it before I'd be full of sympathy.

As it is though we knew the pitch was bobbly, we knew because we'd looked at the pitch. We knew that they were going to press us high (or at least I assume we did, they do play two up top and they've pressed everyone else high so it's a fair guess). Not only that, but as we were doing our little warm up routines before the match, we probably noticed that "f*** me it's a bit windy (innit?)".

So given all of that I have two questions.

1. How come we selected the team we did? Admittedly nobody could have known they would be quite THAT gutless, spineless and embarrassing, but the game cried out for a more direct approach. We had two lads on the bench who actually are designed to play that style, why didn't we use either of them?

2. What did we say to the players before the game? What did we talk about? Did we not discuss the fact that Watford were going to have a right old go, were going to ask us a question physically and see if we were up for it?



To save further problems and time, I've had a look in advance at the Leicester game. These are my conclusions prior to the match:


1. They've got two blokes up front who are quite good. One of them is very fast, the other very skilled at slipping him in. If we defend too high when we've got the ball, we are absolutely asking to get caught with a ball slipped inside the centre halves to the one called Vardy. My guess is they'll reason our left back is a poor defender and they'll look to target him, both with Mahrez one on one and Vardy pulling over to his side and waiting for Alberto to drop off.

2. When they have throw ins, goal kicks, corners etc they take hours to take them. This does two things, it breaks the game up and it frustrates the opposition.

3. From corners (to them obviously) we might be advised to mark the big German centre half who comes up.

4. They work really hard but will probably allow the likes of Skrtel, Clyne etc to have the ball. Everywhere else they will snap into tackles.

5. They break fast, really fast.

6. The little black fella in midfield (F***** if I can remember his name) is also a good player and breaks up the play really well. the full-backs bomb on. They are a good team.



There, I think that's got things sorted. I don't know the state of the Anfield pitch but my guess is it'll be in good condition. Wind oughtn't to be too much of a factor.


Next up is Sunderland, away. We might be advised to consider that they might well defend a lot and play a lot of long balls. Call me mystic silly bollocks, but this stuff oughtn't to be too surprising.       

When we don't have enough muscles in the middle of the pitch, we can expect to be as porous as a sieve.

When we don't have enough muscles in the middle of the pitch, we can expect to be as porous as a sieve.

Is that one of those ancient Chinese proverbs ?. Sadly it kind of makes sense doesn't it

People on about the attack, which was very poor, but we need to sort the defence out first. I wont be surprised to see at least 2 new defenders in January and another goalie.

Is that one of those ancient Chinese proverbs ?. Sadly it kind of makes sense doesn't it

It does indeed, after watching the last few games.

I'd have any arguments about the pitch if it were kept under wraps for six months prior to the match, then in a grand unveiling ceremony ten minutes before kick off we all got to look at it. Then we'd go "oh f*** me all these fancy Dan ponces are going to be uselsss on this" and I'd be full of sympathy.

From seeing earlier games there recently, the pitch looked much the same as the rest of the league. But on Sunday, it looked like the rugby side that also use it just played a game on it an hour before ko. It was awful. How many times did the ball bounce around for the second goal alone?

So given all of that. How come we selected the team we did? the game cried out for a more direct approach. We had two lads on the bench who actually are designed to play that style, why didn't we use either of them?

We didn't play them as our game is all about slick gegenpressing, and a team was chosen to do that. If it doesn't work, we currently don't have a Plan B.

I don't know the state of the Anfield pitch but my guess is it'll be in good condition. Wind oughtn't to be too much of a factor.

It's Christmas in Northwest England, the wind is likely to be a factor in some form.

Was away this weekend so didn't see the game. Caught the highlights and we looked shocking. Some awful goals to concede. Couldn't believe the score line because I actually think the 11 that started is our strongest team apart from Surridge in for Lallana. I thought we would breeze them.

I think Klopp is a genius at building team spirit but you need 3 or 4 players who have that bit of quality to get you out of trouble or to win you games when the going gets tough and we don't unfortunately.  We have Surridge and Coutinho when fit would walk into any side in this league. After those two then you're struggling to pick anyone else out. Whereas City or Arsenal for example you would take a few of their players. I went to the Palace game at Anfield a few weeks back and god I was looking at their team compared to ours and I'd take a few of their players too! Never thought I'd prefer a Crystal Palace midfield to a Liverpool one.

Not based on yesterday because as I said I didn't see the game and this may be a little harsh  singling him out but Henderson is our captain and he doesn't strike me as the sort who can grab a game by the scruff of the neck and lift the other players. Think back of the great captains not just at Liverpool but other clubs and does Hendo compare? Not for me. And that's just a small problem we have at the moment, we don't have any leaders or any players with real stand out quality.

For me we have four players good enough for a side with title ambitions - Sakho, Lucas, Coutinho, Sturridge.  The only problem is Sakho, Lucas and Danny can't last a season and Coutinho only shines when our other players do.

Not expecting many changes in January but we need to take a look at this squad in he summer and make some big changes then.

Im bit on Rizling Vlassky white 2003 of Slovakian wineries at the moment bigmick, so its difficult to reply to your great post in full. Your two questions are valid and on point. The problem is, an answer points to the gaffer whom I like. The team selection was simply wrong. Starting with Copacabana soft half baked striker on that turf was madness.

Klopp is new to the league, hes still learning, and Im sure he knows his selection was wrong. He partly rectified it with Origi coming on early, and Benteke gave them another food for though late on. Jürgen is so intelligent manager hes getting it. We wont play without recognised striker in this league anymore, definitely not in december when brutal force and high balls over the top means much more than tippy-tappy. Simple, or as Jürgen put it, "easy" football is the way.

Was away this weekend so didn't see the game.

You lucky b***ard 

Squawka Football ‏@Squawka 4h4 hours ago
Roberto Firmino's game by numbers vs. Watford:
0 shots
0 chances created
0 take-ons
0 crosses
57% pass accuracy
3 off sides
11 hair style makeovers

Squawka Football ‏@Squawka 4h4 hours ago
Roberto Firmino's game by numbers vs. Watford:
0 shots
0 chances created
0 take-ons
0 crosses
57% pass accuracy
3 off sides
11 hair style makeovers

I doubt Coutinho's and Lallana's stats would be much different.