Sunderland 0:1 Liverpool. In game and post match debate.

Who ever thinks Robbie Fowler would 'bag lots of goals' in this team is misguided. Owen yes. Fowler. Up front on his own? don't think so. He was never that kind of player.

But in saying that. Benteke is actually getting goals. So whats the moaning about? SMH.

Well that was aimed at me then. Wasn't so much a point about Fowler himself, but how a natural finisher would make a huge difference.

But since you raised it, Firmino's header, Fowler buries, ball Fimino miscontrols in the box, Fowler buries, Benteke's chance at the end, Fowler buries.

The kind of player to finish half a chance every time, did you ever see the man play? One of the best strikers we've ever had and you don't think think he would have finished any of the chances above, you got a screw loose mate.

Get a f**king life.
We f**king won.
We got three points and advanced on our rivals.

Are we not allowed to pick faults with our performance every time we win then?

Why are we on this forum then?

Tonight we won. A vital 3 points. The performance wasn't pretty though and we need to step up a few gears if we are to beat West Ham.

Well that was aimed at me then. Wasn't so much a point about Fowler himself, but how a natural finisher would make a huge difference.

But since you raised it, Firmino's header, Fowler buries, ball Fimino miscontrols in the box, Fowler buries, Benteke's chance at the end, Fowler buries.

The kind of player to finish half a chance every time, did you ever see the man play? One of the best strikers we've ever had and you don't think think he would have finished any of the chances above, you got a screw loose mate.

Yes i did see him play, which is why I know he would not (and did not) do well up front on his own.
He was a natural finisher (obviously) but even he struggled to co-exist with Owen (the partnership didnt gel). He had his weaknesses.

And YES believe it or not he did actually MISS some chances.

Now i would bet the house on him scoring the one-on-one. But to definitively say he would bury the other chances is just pure speculation and romanticism 

Nevertheless, Benteke is ACTUALLY  etting goals! Even when we dont play well he is scoring.
Sometimes half chances out or nothing (man u game springs to mind)
This makes him an asset based on that alone. So imagine if the team started to gel. (our midfield is not playing well either).

I mean, you are essentially roasting benteke for 'not being as good a finisher as Fowler or Owen' .

If thats the case then its only a matter of time before u brand sturridge 'totally useless'

Well that was aimed at me then. Wasn't so much a point about Fowler himself, but how a natural finisher would make a huge difference.

But since you raised it, Firmino's header, Fowler buries, ball Fimino miscontrols in the box, Fowler buries, Benteke's chance at the end, Fowler buries.

The kind of player to finish half a chance every time, did you ever see the man play? One of the best strikers we've ever had and you don't think think he would have finished any of the chances above, you got a screw loose mate.

Yes i did see him play, which is why I know he would not (and did not) do well up front on his own.
He was a natural finisher (obviously) but even he struggled to co-exist with Owen (the partnership didnt gel). He had his weaknesses.

And YES believe it or not he did actually MISS some chances.

Now i would bet the house on him scoring the one-on-one. But to definitively say he would bury the other chances is just pure speculation and romanticism 

Nevertheless, Benteke is ACTUALLY  etting goals! Even when we dont play well he is scoring.
Sometimes half chances out or nothing (man u game springs to mind)
This makes him an asset based on that alone. So imagine if the team started to gel. (our midfield is not playing well either).

I mean, you are essentially roasting benteke for 'not being as good a finisher as Fowler or Owen' .

If thats the case then its only a matter of time before u brand sturridge 'totally useless'

But to definitively say he would bury the other chances is just pure speculation and romanticism 

But the proof is there, he did bury them.

I mean, you are essentially roasting benteke for 'not being as good a finisher as Fowler or Owen' .
So you are saying Benteke is up there with Fowler and Owen?

I am lost for words....

Yes i did see him play, which is why I know he would not (and did not) do well up front on his own.
He was a natural finisher (obviously) but even he struggled to co-exist with Owen (the partnership didnt gel). He had his weaknesses.

And YES believe it or not he did actually MISS some chances.

Now i would bet the house on him scoring the one-on-one. But to definitively say he would bury the other chances is just pure speculation and romanticism 

Nevertheless, Benteke is ACTUALLY  etting goals! Even when we dont play well he is scoring.
Sometimes half chances out or nothing (man u game springs to mind)
This makes him an asset based on that alone. So imagine if the team started to gel. (our midfield is not playing well either).

I mean, you are essentially roasting benteke for 'not being as good a finisher as Fowler or Owen' .

If thats the case then its only a matter of time before u brand sturridge 'totally useless'

You've completely missed my point, if you go read my posts on Benteke in his thread, I'm on the same wavelength as you with him.

However he's not a natural finisher, he won't finish the chances Sturridge would get for example, it was a passing comment about how a natural finisher would make a massive difference in this team given how few chances we are making at the moment.

Not your fault you've not seen my earlier posts, but you've completely missed the point on this one mate.

I had a surprise situation at work today so I missed the match. It sounds like benteke was sh!te and we need a proper striker in January.

Dunno though. Another match where he's ended up on the scoresheet.

And remember that beauty at old toilet?

F**k me sideways.

crouchinho - Of course some of us want to 'defend' Benteke. While he is here and scoring goals that are winning us games we'll do our best to grasp the positives and encourage the guy for the future.

Sure he's no Owen, Fowler, Torres or Suarez but no one is making him out to be that and no one is comparing him to that. Who knows whether he'll have a long term future with us or a short term one but while he IS here leading the line as he is the only man FIT to do so some of us will at least do what many consider to be our duty as supporters and cheer him on.  And f**king hell I will cheer him tonight for getting the goal that got us three points. I think he deserves a bit of slack. His performance was neither feckless or useless. Give the man a break. He's had a good week.

Mostly a decent performance, if somewhat lacking in the finishing department. Players worked hard for each other I thought, which is definitely a positive sign. Benteke, although not fantastic, certainly applied himself a lot better than in other games and made a nuisance of himself. I personally thought Can was next to useless though. Didn't offer much of anything defensively or in an attacking sense. Am I the only one who wonders what he actually offers us? Yes, he's young but there is less end product than there should be. I'm personally not confident of Cans' future at our club. Just what is his role?

I mean, you are essentially roasting benteke for 'not being as good a finisher as Fowler or Owen' .
So you are saying Benteke is up there with Fowler and Owen?

I am lost for words....

You either lack basic comprehension skills or english isn't your first language.

I'm hoping its the latter.

Getting Klopp was suppose to unite us, give us renewed hope.


Hmmmm......if this is hope I'd hate to see people lose it.

Getting Klopp was suppose to unite us, give us renewed hope.


Hmmmm......if this is hope I'd hate to see people lose it.

Not at all, frustration lies completely with the team. In the context of the match, it is frustrating to see Liverpool perform like weaklings whoever is in charge - it would be the same if a hybrid of Shankly and Paisley was managing. Or we could have got a dream team line up of world class coaches on our bench, and it would still be hellishly infuriating to see players bullied off the ball by Sunderland players and then their heads down and shoulders slumped showing they lacked fight (Coutinho, Firmino and Lallana - all looking at you).

But the long term hope is definitely all there because of who is managing the club. It's a marked difference compared to, say, the tail end of last season or when we lost to United earlier this year because we were honestly a rudderless ship going in no direction with the manager seemingly going AWOL.

Even with bad performances, there is a lot of hope with Klopp, as opposed to hopelessness.

Wins are important but seeing your weaknesses/limitations (especially considering the glaring obviousness of them against one of the worst sides in any top league in Europe) are the way to improve in the future.

Right now Benteke is a weakness. Yes he scored, but he's had his arse placed on the bench behind a 20 year old and an unconventional striker in Firmino. The only reason he's playing is injuries. He isn't clinical, he doesn't put in a shift (this morning he was better, though), loses way too many headers for a bloke that is nearly in the clouds and he doesn't get his arse about when we have the ball and provide his teammates with runs to pick out. To add insult, we paid £32.5m for him and it's a f**king mess.

Stick a proper striker in front of Firmino and Coutinho and they'll come to life. Criticise Robbie but he's just like Coutinho and we all know he can be f**king deadly but he needs movement up top to come to life. Add a striker who makes runs, drags defenders and creates doubts in the defence's minds and all of a sudden Coutinho and Firmino take control of the game.

Confused as to how our fans especially can defend his performances considering we've had Sturridge, Suarez and Torres all playing for us for nearly the past decade collectively. Their movement destroys(ed) teams. Benteke makes us predictable.

EDIT: Just a last "f**k you" to Kevin Friend. Comfortably the worst ref in the league. Cockhead.

You constantly scapegoat Benteke yet your bias towards Firmino and Coutinho is shocking.

The thing that pisses me off with those pair is their heads down and shoulders slumped. It's no use just turning up for the big games when you want it, you have to put in a hard graft against some of these lower sides whether you like it or not, and far too often, Coutinho doesn't cut the mustard. If he can't be bothered playing against smaller sides, then he might as well leave - he's being paid full time, so he needs to play like a full time player. He's merely acting like a part-time player at Liverpool this season.

Coutinho looked as if he wasn't up for it - I couldn't care less if he was being bullied by bigger players, he at least should have held his head high. Too many times this game he would slouch around when things weren't going his way. Yet again, and far too often the last year, he's retreated into his shell and looks as if he'd rather be playing a different game.

First sign of trouble and a bit of physicality and it's as if he's decided he can't be arsed. That's a loser's mentality right there.

Because Benteke is the problem.

Any of Torres, Sturridge or Suarez would require at least two defenders' attention. That opens space for the likes of Coutinho and Firmino.

The impact of those types of strikers is obvious when we manage to convince City Sterling is worth £50m when all he did was mooch off the work of the best strike force we've had.

As soon as those two were injured or when Suarez left, our other creative players' performances dwindled. Obvious why.

Benteke isn't a bad player by any means. He has obvious qualities but they don't fit in with our players and style. Even our manager said so recently. We need someone of that Suarez/Torres ilk to arrive soon if we are to improve our goal tally.

Thought Emre Can was excellent today.

Shame Benteke couldn't slot home a second because it could have lifted a bit of a cloud from over him. Few bad misses when he has had too much time to worry.

Because Benteke is the problem.

Any of Torres, Sturridge or Suarez would require at least two defenders' attention. That opens space for the likes of Coutinho and Firmino.

The impact of those types of strikers is obvious when we manage to convince City Sterling is worth £50m when all he did was mooch off the work of the best strike force we've had.

As soon as those two were injured or when Suarez left, our other creative players' performances dwindled. Obvious why.

Benteke isn't a bad player by any means. He has obvious qualities but they don't fit in with our players and style. Even our manager said so recently. We need someone of that Suarez/Torres ilk to arrive soon if we are to improve our goal tally.

Ask Villa fans if hes sh*t.

They're literally crying on twitter that we paid to get them relegated

The player isnt that bad....he lacks confidence and most importantly is trying to carve out a place for himself in this team. His movement doesnt compliment our fluid or attacking midfielders (Adam, Rob, Phil).
Its a tough place to be in but at least he still got the last 2 winning goals and that's all we can ask of him.
The squad either needs to adapt our style or we need another 2 additions, DLPM and Striker with mobility.

Well I think everyone can agree we played sh*te against Sunderland,I like many was pissed off with the standard of football.Now for the reality check,I wonder how many would complain if we played sh*te every game yet still managed to win 1-0 and won the league and any other cup for that matter.I think it will be next season before we see the benefit of Jürgen Klopp when he has had time to structure the squad with some of his own signings.I would not write this season off yet either,there could still be one or two surprises.

Seen some negative posts on here - don't get it to be honest...

Watched the game last night and 5 mins in I was more worried about one of our lads getting an injury than winning the game. Sam sets his teams out to play the same way (regardless of what he says). Its high intensity, hard tackling and long ball all day long - and regardless of who is facing that its difficult. Especially when you cant press and have to play against the second ball.

10 Mins after we scored Sam was on the side line laughing, not because they were playing well but because his players were hoofing the ball and flying into challenges. We looked rattled, and for him that offers more pleasure than actually playing football. I think last night was summed up by that tackle by Lens on Sakho and the response of Sam 'He's a soft German (Klopp). It's not a red card, it's a yellow. It's a foul'. This is a comment that is not only borderline nationalist / racist it really sums up what we were up against. 

We didn't give them the battering many thought we would, but we all know that games like this are tough. They were fighting for their life and position in the Prem and it seems that Liverpool is always a good club to start that fight against. Look at Newcastle...

If we win every game 1-0 for this season and finish 2nd or even better then I would be more than happy. Yes, we want the massive score lines, but lets get used to winning and go from there.

Seen some negative posts on here - don't get it to be honest...

Watched the game last night and 5 mins in I was more worried about one of our lads getting an injury than winning the game. Sam sets his teams out to play the same way (regardless of what he says). Its high intensity, hard tackling and long ball all day long - and regardless of who is facing that its difficult. Especially when you cant press and have to play against the second ball.

10 Mins after we scored Sam was on the side line laughing, not because they were playing well but because his players were hoofing the ball and flying into challenges. We looked rattled, and for him that offers more pleasure than actually playing football. I think last night was summed up by that tackle by Lens on Sakho and the response of Sam 'He's a soft German (Klopp). It's not a red card, it's a yellow. It's a foul'. This is a comment that is not only borderline nationalist / racist it really sums up what we were up against. 

We didn't give them the battering many thought we would, but we all know that games like this are tough. They were fighting for their life and position in the Prem and it seems that Liverpool is always a good club to start that fight against. Look at Newcastle...

If we win every game 1-0 for this season and finish 2nd or even better then I would be more than happy. Yes, we want the massive score lines, but lets get used to winning and go from there.

Everyone knew it was going to be a dirty game, expectation was that we would be the one to show them dirty. Well all that mattered was the 3 points in the bag🙂

Ratings from last night....

Mignolet 6/10-Nothing of note he did 'cept for good save against the midget in first half. If you loom balls over his 6 yard area all day he will make a mistake though.

Clyne-7/10 our most consistent player. Nothing spectacular, does his job well. Finnan mark II. Work on his attacking and we will have best RB in England.

Lovren 7.5/10 1st half he was great, composed and took ball out well, starting attavks, a little Aggeresq. Second struggled a little bit, but every game he seems to be getting better. Could keep Skrts out.
 
Sakho 6/10 I feel since his injury his confidence is low, he is getting turned by players too easily and is lunging in to tackles he knows he shouldn't. Needs more composure.

Moreno 8/10 my motm, 1st half completely snuffed out their attacking threat, and went forward with menace. He fizzes a cross in don't he? If someone was braver and lunge in.....

Hendo 5/10 Anonymous, too deep to affect play, wasn't doing the defensive job either. Injury too, so bad night overall.

Can 5.5/10 sometimes he looks like a younger Yaya, than Djimi Traoe in the space of a minute. Jury is still out on him for me.

Firminho, Lallana 3/10 need to both be dropped, offered nothing, looked disinterested. I said when we bought Roberto he could either be amazing if a Babel. I would rather have Babel right now.

Coutinho 4.5/10 looked livelier in 1st half, but faded like he has done all season. Was going to put him with the two idiots, but he offered a little more. Needs willing runners to give the killer pass instead of shooting on site, which leads me too....

Benteke 6/10 scored, missed sitter, no movement, not winning headers, didn't hold line on his own. Think Carra is right, needs less time to think and he will score. IF sturridge ever gets fit would be interesting to see how he gets on with a proper partner.

Lucas 7/10 looks assured when he came on, dropping him did the world of good it seems.

Ibe 6/10 flashes of promise. Decision making needs work.

Kolo 9/10. Because I like his song.

Klopp looked so annoyed all game, because we generally played awful, and you can see the players where not performing. Want to see some changes for West Ham or it could be a struggle I feel.

Ask Villa fans if hes sh*t.

They're literally crying on twitter that we paid to get them relegated

Which is my point. He can be a good striker in the right system but that'll never be at this club. We don't suit him and i doubt he'll ever suit us.

Thought Emre Can was excellent today.

Shame Benteke couldn't slot home a second because it could have lifted a bit of a cloud from over him. Few bad misses when he has had too much time to worry.

Emre Can ?
He was . Stats prove it . My MOTM.

Well I think everyone can agree we played sh*te against Sunderland,I like many was pissed off with the standard of football.Now for the reality check,I wonder how many would complain if we played sh*te every game yet still managed to win 1-0 and won the league and any other cup for that matter.I think it will be next season before we see the benefit of Jürgen Klopp when he has had time to structure the squad with some of his own signings.I would not write this season off yet either,there could still be one or two surprises.

Good Post Billy and true.
If they had any firepower up front we would have come away with only a point.

As it was we held on ... got three big points that we needed and up to level with the  Scum  for year end.

Ch- Ch- Changes   methinks.

Window opens tomorrow.