West Ham 2-0 Liverpool: In game and post match debate

Well Sturridge helped a little too that year, as did Sterling who it was widely recognized was nurtured by Brendan.

You mean the same Sterling who got his chance from KD? Or are we talking about the same Sterling who couldn't wait to get away from your beloved BR? A player who had massive responsibility thrust upon his shoulders, unfairly I might add, because he flourished in a team with the best player in the world accompanying him, giving him the time to use the tools he had at his disposal. Nothing to do with BR and his tactics at all, hence why he even came out and stated that he would have stayed if it wasn't for Rodgers.

Once again FL, you're just trying to cause an argument to suit your agenda. Well, you have had a response and I'm not playing ball any further.

You mean the same Sterling who got his chance from KD? Or are we talking about the same Sterling who couldn't wait to get away from your beloved BR? A player who had massive responsibility thrust upon his shoulders, unfairly I might add, because he flourished in a team with the best player in the world accompanying him, giving him the time to use the tools he had at his disposal. Nothing to do with BR and his tactics at all, hence why he even came out and stated that he would have stayed if it wasn't for Rodgers.

Once again FL, you're just trying to cause an argument to suit your agenda. Well, you have had a response and I'm not playing ball any further.

My beloved Brendan? Ok then, you are right, there is no use discussing anything with you because you aren't interested in reasoned debate, just back handed jibes apparently. Good day.

It's Klopps job to get them trained and prepared all week for the game but in my opinion once they cross that line onto the pitch it's their responsiblity to carry out everything they've worked on in the previous weeks and days.

It seems to me that players (not just at Liverpool) don't like to take responsibility or the blame for bad performances but are the first ones seeking praise when they win.

I really hope it's not long until we start selling the deadwood at the club (but then again who's going to take them) and start buying better players. We need some world class players and I know January is always difficult to get a big name signing in but after that yesterday I hope Klopp has pointed out who he wants and the club are ready to give him all the cash he needs. A GK,CB and Striker or 2 is what I'm hoping for but I'm not holding my breath.

I've said it before and no doubt I'll say it again, I can take a defeat IF I can see the players have given their all and been beaten by a better team. What I can't stomach is to see a Liverpool team play with such a lack of 'balls'. They should be ashamed to call themselves professional footballers, and no way do they deserve a full wage packet!
Where do we go from here? Well we go Stoke on Tuesday and I am confident that Jürgen will  make each and everyone of them aware that the honeymoon period is over, I am sure he knows who will fit into his style of play! May I suggest that if they want to play for Liverpool and Jürgen Klopp, then they start eating 3 shredded wheat for breakfast! Jürgen needs men not boys, he needs players with engine rooms, players who are prepared to run and run. Players who will give their all for this great Club! We've had so many players like this in the past, we seem to be very lacking now!
If they haven't got the stomach for the fight, the door is open, go!

Personally, I have never believed that Benteke is the main problem. He is part of the issue, but not the main issue.

If you are playing with a target man, his job is to get to the end of crosses, to hold the ball up as the team gets support, and for him to drop a bit deeper as others make runs beyond him.

How many players are consistently making runs beyond Benteke? How many players are making a pass to him, and making a run into space to receive the ball, or making a run when that ball is played to him? And when the ball is played long, how much support is there around him when he eventually wins the ball?

I agree, we're not using Benteke in the way he's been used in the past, guys down the wings, getting to the byline, whipping in crosses for him to attack. He's shown he can put those type of chances away.
So an option is for Klopp to get guys swinging in crosses more regularly, try and use those strengths. And have players supporting, picking up the pieces of Benteke's challenges for the crosses.

Personally I don't like that option though / that kinda game ... it's percentage football, you need to put a lot of balls in to get returns (and is main reason I gave up on BR, when he started long-balling it up to Ben). Much prefer to pass and move etc. high tempo with intensity. BUT it is an option, particularly if we're just not functioning up front in a game.

In saying that, you'd also need the Benteke we've barely seen, the target man who is big, strong & bullies defenders. At the moment, Ben looks 'shy', doesn't look up for a fight and although in fairness to him he has scored a couple of important goals, his general play is well below the required intensity, he's not showing up for a fight, not hassling defenders, dishing out knocks and bruises. Even if not playing well, throw your weight around, fight, cause some F***ing mayhem, be the guy who leads by example, it can raise the team, the crowd.

He has the attributes, but imo he has a real problem with confidence, already with a mental coach, he's struggling to implement what Klopp asks for, and think it's clear the him and us the manager is frustrated. It can be chicken and egg, need the confidence in order to play well, but also need to play well to build confidence. Am not making any excuses for him though, if it's not happening, you don't trot about waiting for something to happen, you need to work EVEN harder, graft and fight, and eventually the chances and the reward will come. And that's what's disappointing, cause not really seeing that.   (and in fairness, not 'just' from Ben, but from a few others too)

My beloved Brendan? Ok then, you are right, there is no use discussing anything with you because you aren't interested in reasoned debate, just back handed jibes apparently. Good day.

You're wasting your time lad. I said the same things as you yesterday on here and I got slaughtered too.

These players might not be Jurgens signings. Jürgen might hate every single one of them for all we know. He might think they are all sh*te. But it's his job to get the best out of them. He might not have been here very long and I've said a few times that Jürgen has a free pass with me until we are in a position where we can say right this is Jurgens team now, but yesterday was really piss poor and the manager deserves some criticism too.

Kept saying it yesterday but if we lose then so be it. But don't lie down without a fight.

There are half a dozen posters on here who refused to question Jürgen because they were so anti Brendan and couldn't wait to bring Klopp in. For what it's worth I think Jürgen IS the right man and I think he will lead us to silverware but do I think he could have set us up better yesterday? Yes. Do I think he could have gotten more out of his players? Yes. 

No, but he certainly claimed all the plaudits off the back of Suarez!

To be fair to our former manager, he did find a way to get all of Studge, Suarez, Sterling, Coutinho, Hendo, and Gerrard on the pitch at the same time and get the best out of them both individually and collectively.  We were also playing exciting, free flowing footie and he deserves some credit for that.  The problem for him was that he had/has no idea how to coach a team to be defensively resolute, we'll organized, and hard to break down.  So, when Suarez left and Studge got injured the attacking qualities that we relied on were gone, and we had no way to compensate on the other side of the ball.....

In contrast, Klopp is good at coaching the defensive duties, but needs to improve on how we play with the ball.  If he can't do that then teams will continue to sit deep, play long ball, and let us have possession as we look clueless when we do have the ball.  He also has a tricky job of bringing in real quality as too many of our recent recruits have not been worth near the money spent on them....

Firminho really ? Have you walking around with your eyes shut for 2 months

You know the three performances this season where we smashed Southampton, Chelsea and city? Benteke didn't play in any.

So yes I would push Firmino up field and bring coutinho back in the middle behind him. He is wasted out wide. Let those two cause havoc because they are on each other's wave length.

Have Lallana and Milner out wide. Neither blessed with pace but at least there is a bit of grit and work rate there.

You know the three performances this season where we smashed Southampton, Chelsea and city? Benteke didn't play in any.

So yes I would push Firmino up field and bring coutinho back in the middle behind him. He is wasted out wide. Let those two cause havoc because they are on each other's wave length.

Assuming Klopp remembers those games too, can only assume the manager sees potential in Benteke and is trying to work him in. And give him some time. Even though the performances in the final 3rd haven't been great, he's continued starting him.

Tbh, if Ben keeps this level of performance up, he'll probably be dropped as soon as Studge or Origi are fit enough to start again.

Who scored the 3rd at Chelsea?

You're wasting your time lad. I said the same things as you yesterday on here and I got slaughtered too.

These players might not be Jurgens signings. Jürgen might hate every single one of them for all we know. He might think they are all sh*te. But it's his job to get the best out of them. He might not have been here very long and I've said a few times that Jürgen has a free pass with me until we are in a position where we can say right this is Jurgens team now, but yesterday was really piss poor and the manager deserves some criticism too.

Kept saying it yesterday but if we lose then so be it. But don't lie down without a fight.

There are half a dozen posters on here who refused to question Jürgen because they were so anti Brendan and couldn't wait to bring Klopp in. For what it's worth I think Jürgen IS the right man and I think he will lead us to silverware but do I think he could have set us up better yesterday? Yes. Do I think he could have gotten more out of his players? Yes. 

Out of curiosity how would you have lined up the team yesterday seeing as you consider that Jürgen got it wrong? The biggest problem yesterday from my point of view was Benteke but it wasn't a selection issue it was a personal performance issue and the more Benteke fu**ed up and ran in the wrong channel/positioned himself wrong the more disillusioned his teammates got and the more motivated and confident West Ham became. The problem was that there was no one to sub in for Benteke, so what would you have done to fix this?

Out of curiosity how would you have lined up the team yesterday seeing as you consider that Jürgen got it wrong? The biggest problem yesterday from my point of view was Benteke but it wasn't a selection issue it was a personal performance issue and the more Benteke fu**ed up and ran in the wrong channel/positioned himself wrong the more disillusioned his teammates got and the more motivated and confident West Ham became. The problem was that there was no one to sub in for Benteke, so what would you have done to fix this?

He took Firmino off, he could have taken off Benteke and played Firmino as a central striker no?

You're wasting your time lad. I said the same things as you yesterday on here and I got slaughtered too.

These players might not be Jurgens signings. Jürgen might hate every single one of them for all we know. He might think they are all sh*te. But it's his job to get the best out of them. He might not have been here very long and I've said a few times that Jürgen has a free pass with me until we are in a position where we can say right this is Jurgens team now, but yesterday was really piss poor and the manager deserves some criticism too.

Kept saying it yesterday but if we lose then so be it. But don't lie down without a fight.

There are half a dozen posters on here who refused to question Jürgen because they were so anti Brendan and couldn't wait to bring Klopp in. For what it's worth I think Jürgen IS the right man and I think he will lead us to silverware but do I think he could have set us up better yesterday? Yes. Do I think he could have gotten more out of his players? Yes. 

Yep.
Jürgen has a lot of grace with me as well and I expect he will help return us to the top at some point, but I have always been told (at least during Brendan's tenure) that it's ok to question the bosses decisions and that doesn't mean you don't support him. Think some folks would do well to have a better memory.

There has been some awful shouts on this forum but bringing Mario back is up there with the very worst.

I agree he can't do any worse than benteke but that doesn't mean he will solve our problems whether that's short term or long term. He is a myth. Always had this superstar status surrounding him but he is average at best.

I remember the dreadful performances we put in last season when he was leading the line and they were on par with how we're performing at the moment.

We don't need a big powerful lad upfront. We need somebody nippy who will stretch the opposition and create space for our best player - coutinho. We are too boxed in and there isn't enough room on the pitch and that's because benteke doesn't move. The lad is a statue. I guarantee if Ings was in this team you would see the others come to life.

Benteke doesn't close down or press so the three behind him don't. They would get passed around and made fools of if they did. Defending starts from the front. If Ings was playing he wouldn't be giving defenders a minutes peace and would be forever closing them down. That means the three behind can too - you press in numbers. If Ings closes down then whoevers in behind can make a decent gamble and leave their position to join in too. The whole team moves further upfield because of it. The opposition would make so many mistakes (unless they are barca and experts at keep ball) and you'd be surprised how much we would win possession back. It's basic stuff but we need somebody prepared to work hard upfront. Not somebody who waits around for a chance to fall to their feet and both benteke and mario are that sort of player. We don't have anybody who can play a proper cross into them, we have keep it on the floor and keep the ball moving quickly type players. We don't know how to park the bus either we are suited to pressing and it'll never work with benteke or mario upfront.

Firmino should lead the line with coutinho Lallana and Milner in behind. Occasionally bring in Ibe.

What If Benteke and Firmino are injured?.....At least we would have one average striker offering something different to Benteke..... As I said I am not saying that we keep Mario, only that with things the way that they are now we need another striker, and If we can't get a decent one in the Jan' window then we should bring back Balotteli...

Maybe Klopp can do some Frankenstein sh!t graft the two together and maybe make a slightly above average striker 

Yep.
Jürgen has a lot of grace with me as well and I expect he will help return us to the top at some point, but I have always been told (at least during Brendan's tenure) that it's ok to question the bosses decisions and that doesn't mean you don't support him. Think some folks would do well to have a better memory.

Brendan was fair game for many simply because they didn't like him and his perceived arrogance.

If he felt that he agreed to have a say and was later undermined by the transfer committee then he should have resigned, stated why and walked out with his credibility still intact.

I believe that All Managers want to make it to a "Big Club" and "IF" they get a chance to manager one they do everything they can to hold on, sadly even if it means allowing others to impose their transfer targets on them.... I believe Brendan Rodgers was guilt of that, but he will probability tell you that it was his one chance at the big time and he was desperate to hold on to it..... I do not excuse it, but I do understand it

You know the three performances this season where we smashed Southampton, Chelsea and city?
Benteke didn't play in any. 

Thats interesting.

You know the three performances this season where we smashed Southampton, Chelsea and city? Benteke didn't play in any.

Actually, Benteke changed the game when he came on vs Chelsea and was voted MOTM by many.

Brendan was fair game for many simply because they didn't like him and his perceived arrogance.

... include ineptitude and ego.

... include ineptitude and ego.

He was very inept in almost winning the league.

Personally, I believe Balotelli, just like anyone else at the club, deserves a chance to prove himself under Klopp. Bring him back this January and give him a shot. If he performs again, the solution is simple, get rid of him and Benteke is the summer, and spend the money on a transfer fee and wages for a mobile forward like Aubameyang. That's the last I'm saying on it as others are not happy about us talking about Balotelli in here, and understandably so.

And Charlie Adam deserves the chance to come back as a fitness coach under Klopp as well.

While we're at it let's get Aquilani back as physio and Itandje to teach the lads about the culture of the club.

He was very inept in almost winning the league.

Seems like that season was the blip as he stumbled across the SAS and he just reverted back to type.

I am all but done with this lot simply  not good enough too  many players hiding and  failing to take ownership and responsibility for their own performance.

Klopp really has his work cut out with this group of players, no matter what sport you play not having the talent can be compensated  with hard work, grit and determination something that our group of players does not have with the exception of a few. The body language at kick off from the players had an aura of self pity about it like we the fans and the manager should feel sorry and pitiful for the 5th game they have played in what ever the number of days it was, F***ing embarrassing by a bunch of spoilt little cu*ts.

Could have sat in 5th now 3 points of 4th but we don't have any balls so will languish in mid table some more.