Liverpool 3:3 Arsenal. In game and post match debate..

Your making excuses for Simon Mignolet practically saying his punch saved us the game. How about if he does his job properly then there is no need for Joe Allen to have to even equalise.

Mignolet's incapability's will reverberate around the whole team that is out there playing, especially our attacking players. They do their job and then he counters it by not doing his. Yes, some of the defending in front of him was sh*te but there is still a keeper to beat and far more often than not he doesn't do anywhere near enough. We want a goalkeeper that is commanding, confident, strong, has good positioning and can drag you out of the sh*t when the defence lets us down.  People trying to make out he is boss because he came out and took a man out as he made a good punch are so obviously blind to what a good goalkeeper should be doing and clutching at straws to defend a very inept goalkeeper.

He is nowhere near good enough and if Klopp doesn't do something about it in the Summer it will come back and bite him on the arse 100%

I'm not making excuses for him, I'm not questioning whether he's good enough or not, this is the game thread, and I'm focussing on his performance in this game only.

The thing is, he's getting blamed for every goal that goes in against him now, and that makes him a scapegoat. He had no chance imo with the first or the last goal. Yes he should have kept the second one out, but the point is it should have never got that far if the defenders did what they're there for. That second one saw the heads drop sharpish, which shouldn't happen either, but nobody is getting blamed for that, are they?

The clearing punch came at a vital point when we needed an equaliser. Without it, we lose 2-4 and all our work brings no return at all, and merely drains more confidence ahead of the big one on Sunday.

Now I can't get why Klopp is sanctioning a 5 year contract for him either, as he clearly sees something about him the rest of us don't. But the allegedly best keeper in the league conceded three himself the night before, and the second best, balaclava head helped us get two last night himself. You're really sure you want them here instead?

Now I can't get why Klopp is sanctioning a 5 year contract for him either

Like I said in another thread I can only imagine it's because they don't want to sell him for nothing.  There's been a few players who have had contract extensions and then been sold on a few months later so I'm not putting too much belief into that.

The big test will be whether or not we buy a keeper - that will tell you whether Klopp rates him or not.

I think GERNs and others are right, will we be able to reproduce that form against the Mancs?  I see no reason why not.  After all we are talking about a team of 11 fit young men - they SHOULD be able to reproduce that form on Sunday.  If we do we'll put 4 past the Mancs.

I'm not making excuses for him, I'm not questioning whether he's good enough or not, this is the game thread, and I'm focussing on his performance in this game only.

The thing is, he's getting blamed for every goal that goes in against him now, and that makes him a scapegoat. He had no chance imo with the first or the last goal. Yes he should have kept the second one out, but the point is it should have never got that far if the defenders did what they're there for. That second one saw the heads drop sharpish, which shouldn't happen either, but nobody is getting blamed for that, are they?

The clearing punch came at a vital point when we needed an equaliser. Without it, we lose 2-4 and all our work brings no return at all, and merely drains more confidence ahead of the big one on Sunday.

Now I can't get why Klopp is sanctioning a 5 year contract for him either, as he clearly sees something about him the rest of us don't. But the allegedly best keeper in the league conceded three himself the night before, and the second best, balaclava head helped us get two last night himself. You're really sure you want them here instead?

That's because a lot of the goals we concede are his fault or he could have done much better for them.

Take a look at arsenals first. It was poor defending but Ramsey's shot was fairly weak and Mignolet should never get beaten at his near post which he did. So we could have defended better but that shot should never go in. So Mignolet didn't cause the original problem to begin with but he still should be saving that.

For the second I again agree we could have defended the corner better but again Mignolet should never let that go past him. If you look at the replay it's actually an own goal from Mignolet because the touch from giroud isn't going in.

We are never going to block or clear every single cross or every single shot against us. Our goalie will get tested three or four times every game.

Every time the opposition thump the ball into our box I'm shitting myself. Every time the opposition has a set piece I'm shitting myself and it's all because of that divvy.

Comparing either de gea or cech to the clown we have in goal just because they both conceded three in their last match is laughable! Mignolet is a little boy compared to both of those.

He needs to go. I haven't wanted a player to leave Liverpool as much since el hadji diouf. Obviously not comparing Simons character to that little gobs***e but Mignolet needs to go ASAP if we are to move forward. We will never get anywhere with him.

What happened against Arsenal was so frustrating. The trend has been for us to "turn up" in high profile matches and "go missing" in matches that might be seen by the players as having a lower profile.
You could see the players were up for this one, and I thought, here we go again, we are gonna tear the Arse a new one. This is gonna be another Man City like performance, this is gonna be fun.
You work so hard to score goals against good sides, and the last thing you want is to concede cheap goals. Unlucky in a sense with the first one, the referee could have stopped the play when one player was on the ground writhing in pain after a head clash, and the other one, Sakho, was in an obvious state of dizziness, still trying to gather himself when the goal went in. Ramsey had it all to do, and Mignolet seemed to be culpable as he was beaten at his near post from a very tight angle.

After a moment of brilliance from Firmino, it felt like we were much the better side and deserving of the lead. It is a mystery, when you see what this fella is capable of, and then how poor he is on other days. Firmino's inconsistency, is to be frank endemic of our performances all season long, so he is not alone in that regard. Then the second disaster comes, and we are all reminded of why Mignolet is in the goal in the first place, "calamity Bogdan" became "calamity Mignolet"  2-2

The scoreline in a football match always affects the mentality of the players, when the Liverpool players are sat in the dressing room at half time, they are probably thinking, "how are we not winning?" The Arsenal players are thinking, "we have been bossed and how are we level?"
We looked tired second half, and I thought the game was gone, and then you found yourself having yet another reason to get swept up in the euphoria that has sometimes surrounded the coming of Jürgen Klopp.  A substitution that few could honestly say was inspiring, yielded a winner. Benteke just did what he is paid to do, and won the ball in the air, but little Joe came charging in like a man possessed and rammed it home.

So what can you conclude from all this?  Well for me this was a missed opportunity. We once again proved we can more than hold our own against a top team, even dominate them. We once again saw evidence of a fade out, suggesting mentality issues continue to plague us.
But by far the biggest lesson from this match, was the confirmation of what we all knew already. We need a better goalkeeper.
We shall never know what would have unfolded if we led 2-0 at half time, but we do know that those goalkeeping blunders are bound to affect the confidence of our players, and we can't afford that to continue.
 

Finally Firmino shows us the talent we all know he has, he was sharp attacking and hungry to get us the win. Now the next test is can and will he do it when we play the "lesser" clubs and when it gets dirty and he needs to graft all game. Fantastic game to watch but we should have had 3 points our GK cost us that game plane and simple the 1st two goals was a shambles at the back.

I can not believe that i have slept over this F***ing awesome match 
God why are you so damn cruel to me... 

That's because a lot of the goals we concede are his fault or he could have done much better for them.

Take a look at arsenals first. It was poor defending but Ramsey's shot was fairly weak and Mignolet should never get beaten at his near post which he did. So we could have defended better but that shot should never go in. So Mignolet didn't cause the original problem to begin with but he still should be saving that.

For the second I again agree we could have defended the corner better but again Mignolet should never let that go past him. If you look at the replay it's actually an own goal from Mignolet because the touch from giroud isn't going in.

Every time the opposition thump the ball into our box I'm shitting myself. Every time the opposition has a set piece I'm shitting myself and it's all because of that divvy.

Ramsay's shot wasn't weak. It was one chance, one shot, in the net. Clinical. If Sakho does his job, the chance never comes. You see his reaction to the goal, he's livid with himself.

As I say, people are just waiting to have a go at him, even when it's not his fault. I think there are better goalkeepers out there, but we have what we have, and Klopp clearly believes in him, hence the new contract. Such contracts come at considerable expense, and FSG don't like handing out long contracts for players that won't play. So while he may not be here 5 years, he'll be here for a good while yet, and it looks like we're going to have to get used to more corner clangers and mad mishaps in the meantime.

I thought the game was gone, and then you found yourself having yet another reason to get swept up in the euphoria that has sometimes surrounded the coming of Jürgen Klopp.  A substitution that few could honestly say was inspiring, yielded a winner. Benteke just did what he is paid to do, and won the ball in the air, but little Joe came charging in like a man possessed and rammed it home.

Winner? Yes you did get swept up in the euphoria alright.

Benteke's header was aimless. He had no idea where it was going. It's just luck that Allen got there in time, as if he hadn't, there would have been the predictable reaction.

Ramsay's shot wasn't weak. It was one chance, one shot, in the net. Clinical. If Sakho does his job, the chance never comes. You see his reaction to the goal, he's livid with himself.

As I say, people are just waiting to have a go at him, even when it's not his fault. I think there are better goalkeepers out there, but we have what we have, and Klopp clearly believes in him, hence the new contract. Such contracts come at considerable expense, and FSG don't like handing out long contracts for players that won't play. So while he may not be here 5 years, he'll be here for a good while yet, and it looks like we're going to have to get used to more corner clangers and mad mishaps in the meantime.

Winner? Yes you did get swept up in the euphoria alright.

Benteke's header was aimless. He had no idea where it was going. It's just luck that Allen got there in time, as if he hadn't, there would have been the predictable reaction.

Sakho was stunned from the challenge and was a yard off, in fact, Kolo saw the run (his job) but just couldn't do enough.

What you're claiming someone else is doing (just blaming Ming the Merciless) is what you're doing with Benteke, implying it was a nothing header when he clearly did what Benteke does well, a header for the late run in the box and a well deserved assist..

Class finish by Ramsey but it was near post regardless..

Ramsay's shot wasn't weak. It was one chance, one shot, in the net. Clinical. If Sakho does his job, the chance never comes. You see his reaction to the goal, he's livid with himself.

Just on Sakho, thought he looked a bit wobbly right after the clash of heads with Giroud, bit jelly legged trying to close down Ramsey.
And looking back, if Sakho does go down as well as Giroud right then, the ref probably stops play.
So giving Sakho the benefit of the doubt on that one, based on his whack to the head.

Ramsay's shot wasn't weak. It was one chance, one shot, in the net. Clinical. If Sakho does his job, the chance never comes. You see his reaction to the goal, he's livid with himself.

As I say, people are just waiting to have a go at him, even when it's not his fault. I think there are better goalkeepers out there, but we have what we have, and Klopp clearly believes in him, hence the new contract. Such contracts come at considerable expense, and FSG don't like handing out long contracts for players that won't play. So while he may not be here 5 years, he'll be here for a good while yet, and it looks like we're going to have to get used to more corner clangers and mad mishaps in the meantime.

Winner? Yes you did get swept up in the euphoria alright.

Benteke's header was aimless. He had no idea where it was going. It's just luck that Allen got there in time, as if he hadn't, there would have been the predictable reaction.

Are you actually being serious? Even mignolets biggest fan would surely admit he should have done a lot better for the first two goals.

Its irrelevant of what our defenders did or didn't do, Mignolet was beaten at his near post twice.

The first goal should have been a straight forward save by any premiership goalkeeper, I suggest you watch the replay again if you genuinely believe Ramsey's shot was fierce and clinical giving Mignolet no chance. Can't believe you're putting it on sakhos shoulders either who had just banged heads with giroud. Moreno gets turned too easily and toure doesn't get close enough to Ramsey but EVEN SO Mignolet should be saving that with ease.

The second goal was just standard Mignolet. An absolute shambles in our six yard box as per, from a set piece as per, Mignolet makes a mess of it as per and it ends up in the back of the net as per.

Cant believe you're trying to justify those goals and saying people are using Mignolet as a scapegoat. The man is a liability. Dreadful goalie in all honesty.

.The thing is, he's getting blamed for every goal that goes in against him now, and that makes him a scapegoat   

So true.

Its irrelevant of what our defenders did or didn't do.

The first goal should have been a straight forward save by any premiership goalkeeper, I suggest you watch the replay again if you genuinely believe Ramsey's shot was fierce and clinical giving Mignolet no chance. Can't believe you're putting it on sakhos shoulders either who had just banged heads with giroud. Moreno gets turned too easily and toure doesn't get close enough to Ramsey but EVEN SO Mignolet should be saving that with ease.

The second goal was just standard Mignolet. An absolute shambles in our six yard box as per, from a set piece as per, Mignolet makes a mess of it as per and it ends up in the back of the net as per.

Cant believe you're trying to justify those goals and saying people are using Mignolet as a scapegoat. The man is a liability. Dreadful goalie in all honesty.

The absolute shambles above was from our own defenders, standing there watching the ball go in. Its not irrelevant, it's the source of the problem. Sure enough, Mig should keep it out, but this is someone who gets blamed for every goal conceded. Even a well taken 25 yard shot by Aguero at City ffs. Not every goal scored is down to the goalkeeper.

A few months ago, it was Lovren who was repeatedly told he was the worst signing ever made, now it's Mignolet, and in your case Benteke too. 2 years ago it was Toure, before him it was Henderson, etc etc. Despite the keyboard lashings they've all got, they're all still here.

What you're claiming someone else is doing (just blaming Ming the Merciless) is what you're doing with Benteke, implying it was a nothing header when he clearly did what Benteke does well, a header for the late run in the box and a well deserved assist

I'm indifferent about him. He frustrates me a lot of time, but I recognise that he gives us another option at times, and chips in with an average amount of goals. He's Heskey standard really, and not worth half the price we paid for him. But if you want to buy from other league clubs, you will pay through the nose.

I don't recognise "assists", and forwards are not bought for their assist rate, they're bought to put the ball in the net. His header itself is going nowhere until Allen pops up from nowhere to do his job for him.

People defending Mignolet's "attempt" to save the first goal is itself quite cringeworthy.

A class finish? Not at all. He was beaten at the nearest post FFS (with a fairly weak shot).

If it was one mistake in 6-8 matches then it can be forgiven but both keepers making mistakes after mistakes after 1-2 matches is unacceptable . It shifts the momentum to the opposite players and does the opposite to our team.

All keepers make mistakes, but what a keeper does after he makes it, tells a lot about his character, which Mignolet severely lacks i.e. a strong character that can instill confidence to the back line.

Ramsay's shot wasn't weak. It was one chance, one shot, in the net. Clinical. If Sakho does his job, the chance never comes. You see his reaction to the goal, he's livid with himself.

As I say, people are just waiting to have a go at him, even when it's not his fault. I think there are better goalkeepers out there, but we have what we have, and Klopp clearly believes in him, hence the new contract. Such contracts come at considerable expense, and FSG don't like handing out long contracts for players that won't play. So while he may not be here 5 years, he'll be here for a good while yet, and it looks like we're going to have to get used to more corner clangers and mad mishaps in the meantime.

Winner? Yes you did get swept up in the euphoria alright.

Benteke's header was aimless. He had no idea where it was going. It's just luck that Allen got there in time, as if he hadn't, there would have been the predictable reaction.

Oh come on luck? Aimless? He headed into the most dangerous area he was able to head it. It was not aimless in the slightest. If you look he clearly aims the ball back into the danger area where most of our players are. If it was aimless he wouldn't have been looking and wouldn't have aimed the ball in a very specific area...

How the F**k can you call something aimless after someone has literally aimed. Put your pitchfork away dork.

Quote from barrymanulow
I thought the game was gone, and then you found yourself having yet another reason to get swept up in the euphoria that has sometimes surrounded the coming of Jürgen Klopp.  A substitution that few could honestly say was inspiring, yielded a winner. Benteke just did what he is paid to do, and won the ball in the air, but little Joe came charging in like a man possessed and rammed it home.

Winner? Yes you did get swept up in the euphoria alright.

Benteke's header was aimless. He had no idea where it was going. It's just luck that Allen got there in time, as if he hadn't, there would have been the predictable reaction.

You make it sound like you are almost unhappy that we snatched the equaliser. Considering the soft nature of two Arsenal goals and we also hit the bar, surely we did not deserve to lose the match.
Yes, I realise Benteke has not been doing the business, and Joe Allen is an often maligned player. The irony of this pair combining to score that vital goal , after Klopp threw them on as subs seems to have been lost on you.