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      Making A Murderer

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      srslfc
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      Making A Murderer
      Jan 15, 2016 10:54:00 pm
      **Spoilers**

      I know a few of us, along with millions of others, have been gripped with Netflix's documentary Making a Murderer so I thought maybe some of you might like a thread to discuss thoughts on both the programme and the Avery case itself without giving any spoilers away in the TV discussion thread.

      Fist of all it is a fantastic documentary and I was hooked from the very first episode and have to admit I found myself in disbelief at some of the stuff that was uncovered during the 10 episodes especially the behaviour of those from the Manitowoc County Sheriffs Dept.

      After reading a bit more about the case though there were also apparently a fair bit of evidence that the filmmakers left out of the 10 episodes and we also only get to see certain sections of what was presented as evidence in the court room and we have to remember that the jury sat through each and every minute of witness testimony and evidence.

      The first question is then:

      Do you think Steven Avery killed Teresa Halbach?

      Or maybe a better question would be:

      Do you think that you could find Steven Avery guilty beyond reasonable doubt?

      Interested to hear any thoughts.

      « Last Edit: Jan 16, 2016 09:57:30 am by JD »
      Magillionare
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #1: Jan 16, 2016 08:19:02 am
      First of all... What a bloody show, my goodness I was hooked. Secondly there is so much here that I cannot make my mind up. The documentary left out a lot of stuff and evidence that helped the states claim such as glossing over the setting the cat on fire incident. Avery actually covered the cat in lighter fluid before throwing in over the fire.

      The biggest issue here is that I wouldn't put it past Steve Avery to have killed her however something isn't right at all with this case. The police department claimed they had a conflict on interest and yet nearly all damning evidence was found by Lenk who has already been found to be shady. I don't think Avery has the intelligence to cover up the murder to that degree in regards to cleaning ALL DNA and blood which is crazy considering a DNA test was contaminated by someone breathing close to it (and yet still used in court which was idiotic).

      The more I think about it, the more I think this guys been stitched up again by the same people who by the way should have all been fired the first time around. That county police force deserve every piece of abuse coming their way. If I lived there I would move away and fast because I wouldn't trust them to protect me.

      Oh and on another note, Brendan Dassey should be an advert for why incest is wrong.
      srslfc
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #2: Jan 16, 2016 09:03:41 am
      First of all... What a bloody show, my goodness I was hooked. Secondly there is so much here that I cannot make my mind up. The documentary left out a lot of stuff and evidence that helped the states claim such as glossing over the setting the cat on fire incident. Avery actually covered the cat in lighter fluid before throwing in over the fire.

      The biggest issue here is that I wouldn't put it past Steve Avery to have killed her however something isn't right at all with this case. The police department claimed they had a conflict on interest and yet nearly all damning evidence was found by Lenk who has already been found to be shady. I don't think Avery has the intelligence to cover up the murder to that degree in regards to cleaning ALL DNA and blood which is crazy considering a DNA test was contaminated by someone breathing close to it (and yet still used in court which was idiotic).

      The more I think about it, the more I think this guys been stitched up again by the same people who by the way should have all been fired the first time around. That county police force deserve every piece of abuse coming their way. If I lived there I would move away and fast because I wouldn't trust them to protect me.

      Oh and on another note, Brendan Dassey should be an advert for why incest is wrong.

      There are a number of possible theories Mags which I've been mulling over since watching th show, and I'm doing similar after the first season of Serial podcast, but one thing I am 100% sure of is that if I was on that jury I couldn't convict him beyond reasonable doubt given the evidence put forward.

      The jury finding him guilty of murser yet not guilty of mutilating a corpse is bizarre to say he least given what they heard at trial from the prosecution.
      Magillionare
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #3: Jan 16, 2016 09:16:02 am
      There are a number of possible theories Mags which I've been mulling over since watching th show, and I'm doing similar after the first season of Serial podcast, but one thing I am 100% sure of is that if I was on that jury I couldn't convict him beyond reasonable doubt given the evidence put forward.

      The jury finding him guilty of murser yet not guilty of mutilating a corpse is bizarre to say he least given what they heard at trial from the prosecution.

      I think more needs to be done in terms of looking into the jury, apparently there was a detectives daughter in there (not from Manitowa but another county) and other people who made it clear they would filibuster the entire thing and wouldn't chance their mind. Sounds like they had their decision made before any evidence was shown.

      The entire thing is fu**ed. Nobody came out looking good at the end of that show apart from Avery's lawyers in my opinion.
      srslfc
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #4: Jan 16, 2016 09:41:42 am
      I think more needs to be done in terms of looking into the jury, apparently there was a detectives daughter in there (not from Manitowa but another county) and other people who made it clear they would filibuster the entire thing and wouldn't chance their mind. Sounds like they had their decision made before any evidence was shown.

      The entire thing is fu**ed. Nobody came out looking good at the end of that show apart from Avery's lawyers in my opinion.

      Agree on the jury and how they possible weren't as independent as they should have been.

      Watching the series however the most shocking thing for me was how the state coerced that statement from Brendan Dassey.

      Magillionare
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #5: Jan 16, 2016 12:56:59 pm
      Agree on the jury and how they possible weren't as independent as they should have been.

      Watching the series however the most shocking thing for me was how the state coerced that statement from Brendan Dassey.



      The same statement regarded that was regarded as not true in one case was used to lock Brendan away for life in another... With the same judge I believe? Complete and utter bollocks. His original lawyer was on someones payroll, no change any qualified attorney would let someone like Brendan be interrogated without him being there.
      srslfc
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #6: Jan 19, 2016 01:02:39 pm
      Another great point this documentary raises is the presumption of innocence which when you think about it is a difficult concept at times.

      How many times have your watched a news story where someone was arrested and charged with a crime and automatically thought that they are guilty?
      mcarz
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #7: Jan 19, 2016 03:25:57 pm
      Just watching the first episode, 20 mins in and all that comes to mind is that the police department was conducting a major witch hunt to convict Avery of whatever they could.

      It's also amazing how that sketch artist sketched Avery's mugshot to a tee based on the statement of somebody who inaccurately describes him in quite a few ways.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #8: Jan 19, 2016 04:16:07 pm
      start with a suspect you want and work backwards finding evidence. I haven't seen the last one yet but some of the stuff is so depressing regarding the evidence its shameful. I doubt many of us would like to live next to the Avery's but that shouldn't make them or in this case Steven Avery. It just appears it suits the justice system if he spends the rest of his life in jail
      mcarz
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #9: Jan 19, 2016 04:17:22 pm
      Are these episodes all different cases or the same one in lots of depth?
      srslfc
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #10: Jan 19, 2016 04:20:21 pm
      Are these episodes all different cases or the same one in lots of depth?

      Its one story mate. The first episode is just an intro as the real story begins from the second episode onwards.
      srslfc
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #11: Jan 19, 2016 04:21:14 pm
      start with a suspect you want and work backwards finding evidence. I haven't seen the last one yet but some of the stuff is so depressing regarding the evidence its shameful. I doubt many of us would like to live next to the Avery's but that shouldn't make them or in this case Steven Avery. It just appears it suits the justice system if he spends the rest of his life in jail

      He could be guilty though Walt.

      But like you say and I've said before there is no way he should have been found guilty based on the evidence put forward.
      mcarz
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #12: Jan 19, 2016 04:31:17 pm
      Its one story mate. The first episode is just an intro as the real story begins from the second episode onwards.

      I'm looking forward to the rest of it then.
      srslfc
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #13: Jan 19, 2016 04:35:57 pm
      I'm looking forward to the rest of it then.

      You will not believe what you are seeing at times.

      Also best not look in this thread again until you've seen it as it will have spoilers in it.
      mcarz
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #14: Jan 19, 2016 07:28:06 pm
      Just a quick question. In the second episode who made the original call about finding the car in his car lot/yard? Seems a bit strange that somebody would be snooping around such a remote place. One things for sure, the authorities make it really difficult for me to believe them at times but then again so does Avery.
      srslfc
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #15: Jan 19, 2016 07:43:17 pm
      Just a quick question. In the second episode who made the original call about finding the car in his car lot/yard?

      If it wasn't said it that episode you'll find out mate.

      I think in the next episode.
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #16: Jan 19, 2016 08:05:32 pm
      Think I'll just skip all the other posts after seeing Si's Spoilers tag. Just started watching this before while ill in bed so I'll come back in a few days/weeks.
      srslfc
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #17: Jan 19, 2016 08:28:51 pm
      Think I'll just skip all the other posts after seeing Si's Spoilers tag. Just started watching this before while ill in bed so I'll come back in a few days/weeks.

      Good call.

      The thought behind me starting this thread was to chat about it after watching.
      « Last Edit: Jan 20, 2016 08:35:25 am by srslfc »
      mcarz
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #18: Jan 20, 2016 12:24:58 am
      This will be the last message I post in here until I finished watching but thanks for starting the thread and making me aware of it. One of the most interesting things I've seen in a long time.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #19: Jan 20, 2016 05:45:32 pm
      Need to get on this, been meaning to watch it.
      mcarz
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #20: Jan 20, 2016 07:19:14 pm
      I'm here to answer your original question SRS ;D

      I couldn't find him guilty beyond reasonable doubt. I have so much doubt about the credibility of the prosecution's case. I'm not saying he couldn't have done it though because he very well could have done.

      It all got so complex at times that I ended up making some notes to try and make some understanding of it :D

      srslfc
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #21: Jan 20, 2016 07:36:31 pm
      I'm here to answer your original question SRS ;D

      I couldn't find him guilty beyond reasonable doubt. I have so much doubt about the credibility of the prosecution's case. I'm not saying he couldn't have done it though because he very well could have done.

      It all got so complex at times that I ended up making some notes to try and make some understanding of it :D



      There's some interesting stuff online that's worth a look at mate which sheds .more light on information the programme makers didn't develop or use.

      Its difficult to know how much of it yo believe but it does give more of 'the other side' so to speak.

      mcarz
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #22: Jan 20, 2016 08:42:16 pm
      There's some interesting stuff online that's worth a look at mate which sheds .more light on information the programme makers didn't develop or use.

      Its difficult to know how much of it yo believe but it does give more of 'the other side' so to speak.



      I was going to mention that about some of the evidence. I read on one site that his ex fiance has released a load of information about what Avery was really like behind the cameras. She said she thinks he did it because the murder happened not long after he requested for her to be tied up and to have rough intercourse. Basically suggesting that he decided to try it with somebody else but obviously got rejected which led to the attack. His ex-fiance is hardly the reliable type though.

      Some of the stuff that didn't make sense to me was how there were supposedly no marks on the bed posts from where the rope would have been rubbing quite aggressively, her car key was found in open sight on the floor, the specs of blood that were left in her car yet he had no cuts apart from on his finger (this also links to that vile of blood that had been unsealed), no signs of blood in the bedroom when it would have been all over the place etc.

      I think I'm going to do a bit more digging though to see if there's more evidence against him. ATM though all I can think of is that half of it was planted, whether that's true or not.
      srslfc
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #23: Jan 22, 2016 09:58:41 am
      I was going to mention that about some of the evidence. I read on one site that his ex fiance has released a load of information about what Avery was really like behind the cameras. She said she thinks he did it because the murder happened not long after he requested for her to be tied up and to have rough intercourse. Basically suggesting that he decided to try it with somebody else but obviously got rejected which led to the attack. His ex-fiance is hardly the reliable type though.

      Some of the stuff that didn't make sense to me was how there were supposedly no marks on the bed posts from where the rope would have been rubbing quite aggressively, her car key was found in open sight on the floor, the specs of blood that were left in her car yet he had no cuts apart from on his finger (this also links to that vile of blood that had been unsealed), no signs of blood in the bedroom when it would have been all over the place etc.

      I think I'm going to do a bit more digging though to see if there's more evidence against him. ATM though all I can think of is that half of it was planted, whether that's true or not.

      A lot of it doesn't make sense j agree but we have to remember a documentary will always be from one perspective than the other.

      For me there is no doubt the police, at the very least, made sure Avery was going to be the only suspect. The Manitowoc Sherriffs Dept hands were all over this when they shouldn't have been.

      Having said that I firmly believe they weren't involved in Teresa's death and I think it's most likely that she was killed on the Averys property but by whom is what we don't know.
      tezmac
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      Re: Making A Murderer
      Reply #24: Feb 12, 2016 09:36:25 pm
      What a great series, so riveting .....justice bad enough for Steve but for Brendan, how can a country let a miss justice go on like that... Hick bas**rds

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