Need to rotate the team more?

Against Stoke, our high press lasted for 5 minutes of the first half and then ran out of steam. Same again at the start of the second.

Tiredness has got to be a factor in this.

Given Jürgen wants us to play a high intensity press, and given, as he says, that the crazy fixture schedule at this time of the season is making it really difficult - why are we not rotating the players more to try and keep them fresh?

Against Stoke, we could have, to take just an example, played Allen and Milner in the middle, Lallana and Ibe either side, with Benteke and Firmino up front.
That would have meant only 2 of our 6 midfielders and attackers would have been guys who played 90 minutes at the weekend. Instead we started with 4 out of the 6 who played 90 minutes, plus Hendo ( who played 76 minutes on Saturday).

I understand the desire to play a settled team, and usually I would be keen on that myself. But with the fixture list right now, and the obvious signs of tiredness on the pitch, shouldnt Jürgen be mixing it up a bit more?

Against Stoke, our high press lasted for 5 minutes of the first half and then ran out of steam. Same again at the start of the second.

Tiredness has got to be a factor in this.

Given Jürgen wants us to play a high intensity press, and given, as he says, that the crazy fixture schedule at this time of the season is making it really difficult - why are we not rotating the players more to try and keep them fresh?

Against Stoke, we could have, to take just an example, played Allen and Milner in the middle, Lallana and Ibe either side, with Benteke and Firmino up front.
That would have meant only 2 of our 6 midfielders and attackers would have been guys who played 90 minutes at the weekend. Instead we started with 4 out of the 6 who played 90 minutes, plus Hendo ( who played 76 minutes on Saturday).

I understand the desire to play a settled team, and usually I would be keen on that myself. But with the fixture list right now, and the obvious signs of tiredness on the pitch, shouldnt Jürgen be mixing it up a bit more?

Maybe the form of Ibe and Benteke have not warranted them starting.
I think the number of injuries has played a major part in not being able to rotate.

Allen is the only one who can justifiably be perplexed at not getting a game.

Looking at the players available at present rotation pretty much means using youngsters, who whilst hungry are inexperienced.

Going to be interesting to see what he does against West Ham in the FA Cup.

With the injuries we have I'm not sure we can rotate any more than we have been.

As JD says above it'll be interesting to see h side for the weekend as I'd expect Allen to come in at the very leafy to freshen up the midfield.

Against Stoke, our high press lasted for 5 minutes of the first half and then ran out of steam. Same again at the start of the second.

Tiredness has got to be a factor in this.

Given Jürgen wants us to play a high intensity press, and given, as he says, that the crazy fixture schedule at this time of the season is making it really difficult - why are we not rotating the players more to try and keep them fresh?

Against Stoke, we could have, to take just an example, played Allen and Milner in the middle, Lallana and Ibe either side, with Benteke and Firmino up front.
That would have meant only 2 of our 6 midfielders and attackers would have been guys who played 90 minutes at the weekend. Instead we started with 4 out of the 6 who played 90 minutes, plus Hendo ( who played 76 minutes on Saturday).

I understand the desire to play a settled team, and usually I would be keen on that myself. But with the fixture list right now, and the obvious signs of tiredness on the pitch, shouldnt Jürgen be mixing it up a bit more?

Good post.

I think Jürgen is realising that keeping up a high press and intensity isn't sustainable in this league. So, it's understandable IMO why the lads can't keep it up. Therefore, Klopp will need other plans/options in this country as it's clear he's finding this league a whole different beast.

Your points about the players though is a fair one, because the peripheral players like Allen, Benteke and Ibe even aren't in any worse form than those currently in the team. Well, Benteke may not have his shooting boots on at the mo but still, when he came on last night I thought we looked marginally better. I think Firmino upfront as the false 9 isn't convincing, he hardly had any impact on the game last night. And while he may produce 'here and there' it's not consistent enough, and this also falls on to the players behind him.

I think Klopp should be looking at the alternative of using Benteke more. I've criticised him enough but we can't see out the remainder of the season (or until our strikers are fit) with this false 9 stuff. I think we need to mix it because Milner and Lallana (especially), or occasionally Ibe aren't creating enough to get our "strikers" in the game. At least, with Firmino dropping behind there is an opportunity for him to create. As it's just not happening with the players we're using.

Allen is a good shout. He should start ahead of Henderson as the furthest forward central midfielder using his tenacity to help turn over possession further up field. Or Can even.

Other than that, Flanno for Moreno is a good move but Klopp doesn't really have too much quality to pick from.

Can Caulker play in this round of the F.A. cup ? If so I would give Toure a well earned rest. Bring Allen and Benteke in, maybe Smith and Tex to really freshen things up, BUT no more kids than that.

Lovren should be back for the Leicester game so our walking wounded should soon be giving us options for the second half of the season. Just a case of getting through these next couple of games injury free.   

I'm sure Jürgen would love to be able to rotate more than he has but with the injuries right across the pitch it's been more or less impossible.

I'm absolutely certain that next season it'll be different and if we ever get anything like a fully fit 25 man squad this season that more rotation will happen. 

isn't a whole lot to rotate with.

I'm sure Jürgen would love to be able to rotate more than he has but with the injuries right across the pitch it's been more or less impossible.

I'm absolutely certain that next season it'll be different and if we ever get anything like a fully fit 25 man squad this season that more rotation will happen.

It was next to impossible a few games back when we had a few of our midfielders (eg Hendo and Milner) out at the same time, but we now have our full complement of midfielders available, so we should be able to mix it up more.

There are 7 guys ( all basically midfielders) - Can, Lallana, Milner, Hendo, Lucas, Milner and Firmino - who Jürgen seems to want to play all the time. [Edit to add - he basically sees 6 out of that 7 in his first team every game] Fair enough - he rates those players. My argument is that by using Benteke and Allen in particular a bit more, we could be giving a couple of those mids a rest and then getting them back in fresher for the next game, at least til we get through this heavy fixture list.

I mean we did look tired against Stoke.
We couldnt sustain our pressing, and I dont think this was through tactical choice. Even when Stoke were bossing the possession and we really needed to step it up, the extra energy wasn't there.

Be interesting to see the team against West Ham. Allen at least has to come into it I would have thought. To me, it'd be good to have been able to bring in a fresh(er) Hendo or somebody as well though.

It was next to impossible a few games back when we had a few of our midfielders (eg Hendo and Milner) out at the same time, but we now have our full complement of midfielders available, so we should be able to mix it up more.

There are 7 guys ( all basically midfielders) - Can, Lallana, Milner, Hendo, Lucas, Milner and Firmino - who Jürgen seems to want to play all the time. [Edit to add - he basically sees 6 out of that 7 in his first team every game] Fair enough - he rates those players. My argument is that by using Benteke and Allen in particular a bit more, we could be giving a couple of those mids a rest and then getting them back in fresher for the next game, at least til we get through this heavy fixture list.

I mean we did look tired against Stoke.
We couldnt sustain our pressing, and I dont think this was through tactical choice. Even when Stoke were bossing the possession and we really needed to step it up, the extra energy wasn't there.

Be interesting to see the team against West Ham. Allen at least has to come into it I would have thought. To me, it'd be good to have been able to bring in a fresh(er) Hendo or somebody as well though.

Well yes that's 7 players you describe as midfielders but 3 of them are being used as a front 3 not necessarily in midfield.  Now obviously is we had Studge, Ings and Origi available those 3 midfielders playing up front could be rotated with the midfielders who are playing in midfield.

So by playing Benteke, we rest who?  Firmino?  Lallana?  Milner?  Maybe 1 of the first 2 need a break but then with Benteke not producing anywhere near enough when he gets his chance we'd be weaker playing him not stronger.  Milner has only just come back from injury so he doesn't need rest.

Again by bringing Allen in to midfield we rest who?  He's not as good at DM as Lucas.  He doesn't provide the strength, height or physicality as Can and Hendo's barely played all season so again doesn't need rest.

So again mate, I agree totally that the players look fu**ed but we're weak as a kitten as it is, by rotating in players who don't provide the attributes that those playing do, we weaken ourselves further.

Let's get a reasonably fit 25 man squad back, then we can look at resting players as we're already relying on our 2nd if not 3rd choices for too many positions.

When all fit and firing, would we really start a semi final with Flanno, Toure, Lucas, Milner and even Lallana or Can?  Put Studge, Origi and Ings back in the front 3, bring in Cou then those 6 you mentioned wouldn't get a look in apart from possibly Hendo and obviously Firmino.

I agree with your sentiment mate that we haven't rotated enough but it's been through lack of options rather than through choice.  It's similar to the argument of we need a whole new team 'cos we're sh*t, don't create enough and can't score goals, well no we don't when everyone's available we've got a pretty decent squad and will be able to rotate through tiredness and/or as the game requires.

I think he would love to rotate and rest players but he hasn't been able to so far.  I still prefer to play players in form and keep them in until they lose it or they are injured.

Again by bringing Allen in to midfield we rest who?  He's not as good at DM as Lucas.  He doesn't provide the strength, height or physicality as Can and Hendo's barely played all season so again doesn't need rest.

In current form, Allen is playing better than Can imo. He certainly wouldnt be a major downgrade, and it would give Can a game off.

Hendo has got plantar fasciitis, so playing 3 games a week is probably not the best way to get over that ( to be fair this is maybe why Jürgen has subbed him for Benteke the last 2 games, but the point still stands).

In current form, Allen is playing better than Can imo. He certainly wouldnt be a major downgrade, and it would give Can a game off.

Hendo has got plantar fasciitis, so playing 3 games a week is probably not the best way to get over that ( to be fair this is maybe why Jürgen has subbed him for Benteke the last 2 games, but the point still stands).

It would still weaken an already weak starting 11 though mate.  Allen has played better for the few minutes he's been on the pitch but he's not the most robust player and struggles playing consecutive 90 minute games, the last thing we need is to lose him to injury.

We were dwarfed by the Stoke players last night and we'll be dwarfed again against West Ham at the weekend, Joe Allen as much as he's been a game changer coming on against tired legs, he really isn't the answer to make us a stronger outfit.

Like I said mate, I don't disagree with the rotation bit but it just hasn't been possible other than against Exeter.

It would still weaken an already weak starting 11 though mate.  Allen has played better for the few minutes he's been on the pitch but he's not the most robust player and struggles playing consecutive 90 minute games, the last thing we need is to lose him to injury.

We were dwarfed by the Stoke players last night and we'll be dwarfed again against West Ham at the weekend, Joe Allen as much as he's been a game changer coming on against tired legs, he really isn't the answer to make us a stronger outfit.

Like I said mate, I don't disagree with the rotation bit but it just hasn't been possible other than against Exeter.

TIA guys were saying something similar about Lallana, would rather see him for 30 minutes going all out off the bench than starting him, they mentioned this prior to the Stoke match that every time he starts he is a different player than what we saw against Norwich; Allen looks to be in the same category.

I think Can is abit Knackerd, and has played iirc every match since Klopp has got here, but right now there are very few options.

TIA guys were saying something similar about Lallana, would rather see him for 30 minutes going all out off the bench than starting him, they mentioned this prior to the Stoke match that every time he starts he is a different player than what we saw against Norwich; Allen looks to be in the same category.

I think Can is abit Knackerd, and has played iirc every match since Klopp has got here, but right now there are very few options.

Agreed AZ.  He's not stupid, Jürgen I mean, if he thinks we can manage to rotate I'm sure he will as he did a bit when he first arrived but the injuries kept piling up making it more and more impossible to do.

Next season will be different, unless we suffer the same or similar injury problems.

Just a thought...

The one factor that might encourage JK to rotate a little and keep key players (mids and fwds in particular) fresh, would be if Ibe could find a) some maturity and b) the net with more consistency.  Don't wish to have a go at him but he looks dangerous when he gets the ball but only takes a productive option about 10% of the time.  His shooting has reflected a young lad keen to do well but still playing with the mentality of the school playground.

If he could rapidly improve those aspects of his play, we could have him in as a starter in the way Sterling was used by BR early in his career, possibly even as a second forward, allowing rotation of at least one of the mids. 

The last time we rotated the team to a large extent in the league was Newcastle and it was one of the worst performances of the season.

So while the tea lady isn't ready for the call-up yet we can be pretty sure our 2nd string aren't up to carrying the work load.

Almost to a man people knew how poor our midfield was against Stoke, Henderson, Can, Milner and to a lesser extent Lallana were terrible so it really does make me laugh when people accept that and then put the burden on Firmino who was the best out of all of our attacking players last night.

If your midfield is completely not functioning it's very difficult to be involved when the players can't string more than 2 passes together. We were struggling to even get out of our own half without losing possession, what do you want Roberto to do, come back into defence to get the ball, very unfair criticism of one of the few players who put a shift in last night.