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      Loris Karius Player Thread (on loan at Besiktas)

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      Ribapuru
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1525: Jul 24, 2018 12:26:57 am
      Karius and Mignolet are both sh*te.
      No beating around the bush or tinted specs.
      Get rid!
      Get new backups.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1526: Jul 24, 2018 12:27:58 am
      People need to differentiate between two things. Yes, Karius on the field has run through more than one rough patch and made a lot of questionable decisions and mistakes. But to sit here and abuse the person day in day out is disgraceful and certainly not what football or Liverpool Football Club and its fans stand for.

      While we should indeed criticize our players from a football point of view (what goes on on the pitch) and demand reinforcement for the positions we deem not strong enough from the management, we should not be out there on a witch hunt to disrespect and lower the guy at every occasion. These are pre-season games and I cringed when I saw him miss that clearance, but who actually thinks that beating the guy to a pulp is going to make him any better?

      How can somebody improve or get back on his feet if we decide to beat him while he is down instead of, as fans, doing what we can to support him?

      The ruthless and borderline harassing behavior of some fans is incredibly stupid and unacceptable. At the end of the day, the lad wears our shirt. If he isn't good enough, then he will be sold or he will be kept in order to eventually reach the required level because the staff values him. In the meantime we should, without restraining from the football criticism we are all entitled to, support the guy to the best of our ability and stop being c**ts behind our keyboards.

      This type of bullying is exactly the type of behavior that players talk about between each other and before you know it you lost out on a couple of players in the transfer market because of course, their national team teammate or ex-club teammate told them about the hell he's been through.

      Just support the lad. If you don't like him, voice your opinion in a respectful manner that is limited to football.

      Ps: When we bought the guy, did anybody advertise him as an extraterrestrial being that does not commit mistakes and that is immune to c**t-like behavior?

      On the bench or not, I hope that our first game at home this season the fans in the stadium make it a point that the vast majority of us support him and that he truly does not walk alone.
      :sleeping-smiley-011:
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1527: Jul 24, 2018 12:28:27 am
      Karius and Mignolet are both sh*te.
      No beating around the bush or tinted specs.
      Get rid!
      Get new backups.

      Not going to be able to "get rid" of Karius...he is worth nothing now and he's not going to accept some deal to a lower league side anywhere.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1528: Jul 24, 2018 12:34:13 am
      Not going to be able to "get rid" of Karius...he is worth nothing now and he's not going to accept some deal to a lower league side anywhere.
      His mistakes in CL final weren't concussion, he proved it pre season. Against Tranmere was bad, but against Dortmund that goalkick pass straight to a Dortmund player, and the palmed saved straight to their player. He is not even average. He is competing with who can be worse, him or Mignolet.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1529: Jul 24, 2018 12:38:17 am
      His mistakes in CL final weren't concussion, he proved it pre season. Against Tranmere was bad, but against Dortmund that goalkick pass straight to a Dortmund player, and the palmed saved straight to their player. He is not even average. He is competing with who can be worse, him or Mignolet.

      That's all well and good but he has a contract and probably not going to take a transfer to a 2nd tier club anywhere, the club couldn't get anything for him so I doubt for the time being he is going anywhere.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1530: Jul 24, 2018 12:42:34 am
      That's all well and good but he has a contract and probably not going to take a transfer to a 2nd tier club anywhere, the club couldn't get anything for him so I doubt for the time being he is going anywhere.
      Maybe just give them league cup games. They can rock paper scissors, Mignolet, Karius and a cardboard cutout of manbearpig.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1531: Jul 24, 2018 12:45:27 am
      Maybe just give them league cup games. They can rock paper scissors, Mignolet, Karius and a cardboard cutout of manbearpig.

      I think Migs is still going to leave.
      PastorGeek
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1532: Jul 24, 2018 01:14:23 am
      He's become the ultimate scapegoat now. It reminds me of when Dudek had a bad game and Kirkland was behind him. Suddenly every goal was dudeks fault. Bullet shots that he saved and attackers scoring the rebound were suddenly chalked up to a goalkeeping error even though we literally see those every damn week.

      Its quite sad.

      Same thing happened to Brad Friedel from what i remember, he had a nightmare against Middlebrough in the league cup, suddenly EVERY goal was his fault and we just dumbed him, then he went on to become one of the best keepers in the premier league for a short era.

      what ever happened to 'ynwa'
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1533: Jul 24, 2018 01:35:04 am
      He's become the ultimate scapegoat now. It reminds me of when Dudek had a bad game and Kirkland was behind him. Suddenly every goal was dudeks fault. Bullet shots that he saved and attackers scoring the rebound were suddenly chalked up to a goalkeeping error even though we literally see those every damn week.

      Its quite sad.

      Same thing happened to Brad Friedel from what i remember, he had a nightmare against Middlebrough in the league cup, suddenly EVERY goal was his fault and we just dumbed him, then he went on to become one of the best keepers in the premier league for a short era.

      what ever happened to 'ynwa'

      Friedel did go on to be a fairly decent premiership goalkeeper. Doesn't change the fact he was poor in a Liverpool shirt though.

      Dudek was also a poor goalkeeper for the majority of his time here despite his heroics in Istanbul.

      Karius is no scapegoat. There is simply no defending him any more. He has solely cost us games and that's just fact. People aren't just picking on him for the sake of it, it's been more than justified.

      It's the same with Mignolet. Both of them have had plenty of chances but they consistently let us down and they've proven that they aren't good enough for Liverpool.

      Alisson might be the most basic, average goalkeeper but he will still be a massive upgrade on what we've seen in our goal for the past 4 or 5 years and just taking out Karius or Mignolet will save us 6 points minimum.
      PastorGeek
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1534: Jul 24, 2018 01:40:05 am
      Friedel did go on to be a fairly decent premiership goalkeeper. Doesn't change the fact he was poor in a Liverpool shirt though.

      Dudek was also a poor goalkeeper for the majority of his time here despite his heroics in Istanbul.

      Karius is no scapegoat. There is simply no defending him any more. He has solely cost us games and that's just fact. People aren't just picking on him for the sake of it, it's been more than justified.

      It's the same with Mignolet. Both of them have had plenty of chances but they consistently let us down and they've proven that they aren't good enough for Liverpool.

      Alisson might be the most basic, average goalkeeper but he will still be a massive upgrade on what we've seen in our goal for the past 4 or 5 years and just taking out Karius or Mignolet will save us 6 points minimum.

      What were the terrible mistake in pre-season matches that Karius made that have garnished such a reaction?

      The bad clearance v Dortmund that almost every keeper does? We saw about 10 of those in the world cup?

      The 2 bullet shots that he ACTUALLY SAVED, and then the attacker scored the rebound? THOSE ARE THE GOALKEEPING ERRORS? LOL
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1535: Jul 24, 2018 01:46:56 am
      What were the terrible mistake in pre-season matches that Karius made that have garnished such a reaction?

      The bad clearance v Dortmund that almost every keeper does? We saw about 10 of those in the world cup?

      The 2 bullet shots that he ACTUALLY SAVED, and then the attacker scored the rebound? THOSE ARE THE GOALKEEPING ERRORS? LOL

      Mate, if you think that third goal against Dortmund wasn't a huge goalkeeping error and that you're even defending him by saying he 'actually saved' the shot in capital letters then it's pointless debating any further.

      His goalkeeping was a disgrace and it's actually beyond embarrassing now. I'm cringing so bad for him. Klopp should completely take him out the first team squad and put him away in the reserves out of the spotlight. His confidence is obviously shot to pieces and even in pre season he's feeling the pressure, it's doing him no good. I was hoping he would bounce back after Kiev but he is a fragile and mentally weak man.
      PastorGeek
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1536: Jul 24, 2018 05:36:59 am
      Mate, if you think that third goal against Dortmund wasn't a huge goalkeeping error and that you're even defending him by saying he 'actually saved' the shot in capital letters then it's pointless debating any further.

      His goalkeeping was a disgrace and it's actually beyond embarrassing now. I'm cringing so bad for him. Klopp should completely take him out the first team squad and put him away in the reserves out of the spotlight. His confidence is obviously shot to pieces and even in pre season he's feeling the pressure, it's doing him no good. I was hoping he would bounce back after Kiev but he is a fragile and mentally weak man.

      Goalkeeping Experts are the new amateur body Language experts.

      Alls im saying is, if every single rebounded goal (from a save) were to be considered a goalkeeping mistake. EVERY GOALKEEPER IS SHYTE

      Also for u to say dudek was crap for most of his career at liverpool is an absolute joke and revisionist history. He was crap 4 the last 2 years but still ended up at Madrid.

      A crap goalkeeper playing hundreds of games for Feyenoord, Liverpool winning league and cup medals, playing international football then spending the later of his career as a backup for Iker Cassilas.

      Geeze, why aren't you a goalkeeping coach or scout bro?
      « Last Edit: Jul 24, 2018 07:45:31 pm by PastorGeek »
      heimdall
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1537: Jul 24, 2018 09:01:51 am
      People need to differentiate between two things. Yes, Karius on the field has run through more than one rough patch and made a lot of questionable decisions and mistakes. But to sit here and abuse the person day in day out is disgraceful and certainly not what football or Liverpool Football Club and its fans stand for.

      While we should indeed criticize our players from a football point of view (what goes on on the pitch) and demand reinforcement for the positions we deem not strong enough from the management, we should not be out there on a witch hunt to disrespect and lower the guy at every occasion. These are pre-season games and I cringed when I saw him miss that clearance, but who actually thinks that beating the guy to a pulp is going to make him any better?

      How can somebody improve or get back on his feet if we decide to beat him while he is down instead of, as fans, doing what we can to support him?

      The ruthless and borderline harassing behavior of some fans is incredibly stupid and unacceptable. At the end of the day, the lad wears our shirt. If he isn't good enough, then he will be sold or he will be kept in order to eventually reach the required level because the staff values him. In the meantime we should, without restraining from the football criticism we are all entitled to, support the guy to the best of our ability and stop being c**ts behind our keyboards.

      This type of bullying is exactly the type of behavior that players talk about between each other and before you know it you lost out on a couple of players in the transfer market because of course, their national team teammate or ex-club teammate told them about the hell he's been through.

      Just support the lad. If you don't like him, voice your opinion in a respectful manner that is limited to football.

      Ps: When we bought the guy, did anybody advertise him as an extraterrestrial being that does not commit mistakes and that is immune to c**t-like behavior?

      On the bench or not, I hope that our first game at home this season the fans in the stadium make it a point that the vast majority of us support him and that he truly does not walk alone.

      Ok Loris, now f**k off back to Germany ;-)
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1538: Jul 24, 2018 11:55:42 am
      Alls im saying is, if every single rebounded goal (from a save) were to be considered a goalkeeping mistake. EVERY GOALKEEPER IS SHYTE

      And literally NO ONE is saying that EVERY SINGLE rebounded goal (from a save) is to be considered a mistake, but that SOME OF THEM ARE, and the vast majority of people think that this was the case against Dortmund. No need to get into generalisations and speak of other goalkeepers, but the rhetoric to defend Karius always seem to go beyond his actual performance, perhaps because there's little to be defended there.

      Also for u to say dudek was crap for most of his career at liverpool is an absolute joke and revisionist history. He was crap 4 the last 2 years but still ended up at Madrid.

      A crap goalkeeper playing hundreds of games for Feyenoord, Liverpool winning league and cup medals, playing international football then spending the later of his career as a backup for Iker Cassilas.

      Dudek was nothing special for Liverpool and there's a reason why he was replaced the season after his best ever game in a LFC shirt - because that was a fluke, he just had very little consistency. And wow, ending up at Madrid and playing 2 league matches in 4 years, now that's special...

      As for Feyenoord, Dudek was their keeper when they had last won the league in the late 90's if I'm not mistaken. They recently won the league again. Their keeper? Brad Jones... now I wonder if that makes Jones particularly great.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1539: Jul 24, 2018 01:45:01 pm
      I think on reflection he should have been taken out of the limelight for a good few months. Regardless of the bang on the head he must have suffered nightmares over that game it was for us traumatic for him possibly life changing .
      I think bringing him back into pre-season was a mistake and I understand why they did it but having seen him a couple of times every single shot at him sees him tense up and when he makes a mistake he looks shattered.
      I actually don't care about his skills as a goalkeeper at the moment this is a young man who needs help.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1540: Jul 24, 2018 01:59:57 pm
      I think on reflection he should have been taken out of the limelight for a good few months. Regardless of the bang on the head he must have suffered nightmares over that game it was for us traumatic for him possibly life changing .
      I think bringing him back into pre-season was a mistake and I understand why they did it but having seen him a couple of times every single shot at him sees him tense up and when he makes a mistake he looks shattered.
      I actually don't care about his skills as a goalkeeper at the moment this is a young man who needs help.

      I disagree, sorry! He is at that age where he should be playing regular, but most importantly, to move on from his mistakes, something I don't think a player can do if he is not playing regularly.

      I also think he should have had confirmation from the manager on whether he was gonna be our #1 or not going into the season. Watching his interview, it seems as if he didn't get any confirmation and seems like he feels betrayed or something :(
      heimdall
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1541: Jul 24, 2018 02:39:13 pm
      I disagree, sorry! He is at that age where he should be playing regular, but most importantly, to move on from his mistakes, something I don't think a player can do if he is not playing regularly.

      I also think he should have had confirmation from the manager on whether he was gonna be our #1 or not going into the season. Watching his interview, it seems as if he didn't get any confirmation and seems like he feels betrayed or something :(

      ah poor Loris, how dare Liverpool go get a decent keeper, especially when he has been so amazing in preseason!!
      F***ing hell what is the deal with you and backing Karius, are you related to him or something , its getting a bit weird now.
      CT_LFC
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1542: Jul 24, 2018 02:42:08 pm
      ah poor Loris, how dare Liverpool go get a decent keeper, especially when he has been so amazing in preseason!!
      F***ing hell what is the deal with you and backing Karius, are you related to him or something , its getting a bit weird now.

       :lmao: and then you wonder why when someone tells you to stop being a dick he gets multiple ticks / likes.

      Quite the angry person you are. 
      heimdall
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1543: Jul 24, 2018 02:47:46 pm
      :lmao: and then you wonder why when someone tells you to stop being a dick he gets multiple ticks / likes.

      Quite the angry person you are. 

      Actually no not really, just exasperated at dealing with posters who are unable to look objectively at an issue. If I wanted to win a popularity contest then I'd just morph into you and virtue signal at every opportunity.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1544: Jul 24, 2018 02:54:07 pm
      we are not talking about a goalkeeper dropping a cross and conceding a goal we are talking about him losing a CL final for his team and maybe its not that clear but the lad is still reliving those moments every time the ball comes near him its a bit like Eric Bristow getting the yips or a golfer with the same problem he needs taking out of the firing line completely .
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1545: Jul 24, 2018 02:54:12 pm
      ah poor Loris, how dare Liverpool go get a decent keeper, especially when he has been so amazing in preseason!!
      F***ing hell what is the deal with you and backing Karius, are you related to him or something , its getting a bit weird now.

      I am curious, what is so wrong with what I said about Karius in reply to Walton that has upset you so much?
      CT_LFC
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1546: Jul 24, 2018 02:59:35 pm
      Haven't been around much the past day or so but i saw the quote from Karius, which is obviously not good as it contradicts Klopp. It certainly doesn't help anything and it is clearer now more than ever that he needs to be moved on and start fresh somewhere else. Few more thoughts on the whole situation:

      * Saw an article where Klopp had been asked about talking to Karius about the Alisson acquisition and he responded saying (along the lines of) "we spoke but what we talked about is between us and not the public". Karius the coming out a couple days later and saying he wasn't told is poor optics and throws Klopp under the bus. A good way to end your career with a team

      * Casillas' tweets recently supporting Karius have been a nice touch of class. Something you definitely don't see happen enough on social media that is usually used by the Heimdal's of the world

      * Still puzzled they sold Ward. Alisson / Ward / Grabara would have been a good GK option for next year and Ward would have been elated to be the backup as it represented a bigger opportunity for him. Neither Migs or Karius would be happy with a demotion having already been #1's for the team

      * Karius is at an age and has the skills to be playing everyday, so once his path to #1 was permanently blocked i thought it'd make the most sense to let him go, whether it be loan or sale. He's not going to be able to recover his confidence by sitting on the bench except for a few games a year. No one wins here.

      GegenPressClub
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1547: Jul 24, 2018 03:15:22 pm
      Let's not forget that when the incumbent keeper has obvious shortcomings, it's easier to bring someone of a similar/higher standard in to compete. Hence why both Mignolet and Karius wanted to come to the club, because they believed there was a good chance of starting.

      But now that we have the world's most expensive keeper, it's a lot more challenging to basically ask someone who's most likely a starting GK in a top 75 club in Europe to trade that for what surely has to be predominantly warming the bench. Hence why Barcelona potentially being interested in Mignolet if Cillessen leaves does not surprise me, because it's that damn hard to get better help.
      heimdall
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1548: Jul 24, 2018 03:37:54 pm
      I am curious, what is so wrong with what I said about Karius in reply to Walton that has upset you so much?

      Its the fact that you are supporting the player, a fairly average player by the way who has evidently lost his confidence, over the club. That kind of annoys me a bit because I support the club instead of individual players.
      Karius has no right to feel aggrieved at being replaced and if he genuinely considers himself better than Alisson then he is downright delusional.
      heimdall
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1549: Jul 24, 2018 03:40:46 pm
      Haven't been around much the past day or so but i saw the quote from Karius, which is obviously not good as it contradicts Klopp. It certainly doesn't help anything and it is clearer now more than ever that he needs to be moved on and start fresh somewhere else. Few more thoughts on the whole situation:

      * Saw an article where Klopp had been asked about talking to Karius about the Alisson acquisition and he responded saying (along the lines of) "we spoke but what we talked about is between us and not the public". Karius the coming out a couple days later and saying he wasn't told is poor optics and throws Klopp under the bus. A good way to end your career with a team

      * Casillas' tweets recently supporting Karius have been a nice touch of class. Something you definitely don't see happen enough on social media that is usually used by the Heimdal's of the world

      * Still puzzled they sold Ward. Alisson / Ward / Grabara would have been a good GK option for next year and Ward would have been elated to be the backup as it represented a bigger opportunity for him. Neither Migs or Karius would be happy with a demotion having already been #1's for the team

      * Karius is at an age and has the skills to be playing everyday, so once his path to #1 was permanently blocked i thought it'd make the most sense to let him go, whether it be loan or sale. He's not going to be able to recover his confidence by sitting on the bench except for a few games a year. No one wins here.



      I broadly agree with your points here, apart from the snide attack on me. For the record I don't use Twitter, way to may sheep and virtue signallers on there, in fact that seems to be the main point of Twitter these days doesn't it?

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