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      Loris Karius (End of Contract)

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      heimdall
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #989: May 27, 2018 09:57:56 am
      I have done, at your request.  He does pull his hands away, but really, its over and beyond him and he knows it.  No keeper would have saved that.  Look, I'm not arguing that LK is good enough - these errors, plus others in other games, suggest he has serious flaws - but I'm not backing you on pinning all three goals on the kid.  He had a mare last night.  Probably the worst and most damaging keeping errors I've seen in 45 years of watching football, but let's not kick a man when he's down, eh?  He's one of ours.


      Hopefully not one of ours for much longer, if he has any sense he'll hand in a transfer request.
      Jimsouse67
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #990: May 27, 2018 10:12:03 am
      Really felt sorry for the lad last night because up until the two howlers last night i thought he did well for us since he came in for migs this season but last night was a real watershed moment for him and the gaffer
      I've seen some gaffs in my time from keepers  but those two last night will weigh heavy on him and will live long in many a reds memory including mine.
      It's been said many many times that we need better between the sticks & last night drove that fact home ,it's a position that needs sorting a sharpish.
      Billy1
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #991: May 27, 2018 10:12:44 am
      I have done, at your request.  He does pull his hands away, but really, its over and beyond him and he knows it.  No keeper would have saved that.  Look, I'm not arguing that LK is good enough - these errors, plus others in other games, suggest he has serious flaws - but I'm not backing you on pinning all three goals on the kid.  He had a mare last night.  Probably the worst and most damaging keeping errors I've seen in 45 years of watching football, but let's not kick a man when he's down, eh?  He's one of ours.


      I always remember the Gary Sprake own goal for Leeds when he threw the ball into the net (it slipped out of his hands) at the Kop End.The KOP immediately began singing careless hands.He was not a bad goalie and carried on for quite a while.
      weshall_kop
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #992: May 27, 2018 11:18:46 am
      Just image how Klopp would have felt after yesterday, when every one was calling for a better goal keeper, Klopp put his trust on Karius and supported him to be our number one and in the end he was betrayed. I used betrayed because both the goals were lack of concentration from Karius and that is something you do not expect to do at this level.     
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #993: May 27, 2018 11:21:01 am
      He is just a very poor keeper.


      No, he really isn't. He's demonstrated that numerous times, not least of which during the game last night were he pulled off some great saves. He as much as any of the front three, is responsible for getting us to the final and its sad how quickly people like you forget that. What he is is prone to errors in judgement, and errors in judgement by goalkeepers invariably cost their team goals. Over the last six months, on a skill level alone, if we judge him on his performances then he's outperformed all but De Gea in the League. If we're going to start judging his ability by De Gea's standards then we're in for a very long search for a replacement because you can count on one hand how many Goalkeepers in the world are on his level - and everyone of them is at a European giant.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #994: May 27, 2018 12:01:53 pm
      No, he really isn't. He's demonstrated that numerous times, not least of which during the game last night were he pulled off some great saves. He as much as any of the front three, is responsible for getting us to the final and its sad how quickly people like you forget that. What he is is prone to errors in judgement, and errors in judgement by goalkeepers invariably cost their team goals. Over the last six months, on a skill level alone, if we judge him on his performances then he's outperformed all but De Gea in the League. If we're going to start judging his ability by De Gea's standards then we're in for a very long search for a replacement because you can count on one hand how many Goalkeepers in the world are on his level - and everyone of them is at a European giant.

      Oh he is. He makes bad mistakes frequently and being a good goalkeeper isn't so much making nice looking saves as being consistent and having good decision making. The idea that the whole team deserves the same amount of credit for getting to the final is nice in theory but simply untrue. It's like saying Gerrard and Traoré contributed the same to our number 5. The front three is far more responsible for us getting to the final than this dodgy keeper.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #995: May 27, 2018 12:30:36 pm
      The problem now is how does he persuade people he has learned from last night unless he plays. I f he plays 6 games and keeps 6 clean sheets and is world class then in the 7th game makes a complete bollocks and loses the game his career is over not just with Liverpool but football in general.
      MAybe a good idea to go out on loan take him out of the firing line until Christmas and see how he does.
      We have endured these situations before when we had Sander Westerveld,Then James and then Dudek all who could make howlers and didn't Carson almost lose us a game in the CL against JUVE.
      My problem is other than DeGea and maybe Neuer  I don't know who could give us the security we so desperately need at the back.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #996: May 27, 2018 12:37:36 pm
      On a human level it's obviously a tragedy for the guy and you have got to feel for him but just can't see how he comes back from this.
      Scotia
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #997: May 27, 2018 12:39:24 pm
      On a human level it's obviously a tragedy for the guy and you have got to feel for him but just can't see how he comes back from this.
      He’ll get a chance to.

      Same as Moreno did. Till we sign someone demonstrably better......
      HScRed1
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #998: May 27, 2018 12:58:11 pm
      He’ll get a chance to.

      Same as Moreno did. Till we sign someone demonstrably better......


      Good for him if he does but what he did in the biggest club game in the world, not sure myself.

      Scotia
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #999: May 27, 2018 01:00:04 pm
      Good for him if he does but what he did in the biggest club game in the world, not sure myself.



      Understandable.

      Just not in Klopp’s DNA to bin someone for mistakes.
      sore monad
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1000: May 27, 2018 01:17:38 pm
      He’ll get a chance to.

      Same as Moreno did. Till we sign someone demonstrably better......

      Which has to be this summer now. Should have been last summer.

      Karius was out of his depth last night. That is not Karius fault. He wasn't ready for this level and it is Jürgen's mistake that he kidded himself he was. Now the the kids career with us is finished. There is no way you can can ask the outfield players to go out and fight to get to another CL final with Karius still in goal. Hopefully Karius can go and recover at another club and become a top goalie. But we need to get somebody else in.

      I love Klopp to bits, he is definitely the right manager for us, and he is going to win us trophies in the end. But nobody is perfect and he needs to learn from this and end his tendency to take a chance on suspect defensive players. We did the same thing with Moreno and it cost us in the Uefa cup final 2 years ago. In defence you need guys you know you can rely on. Keeping our fingers crossed with players in defensive positions has to end this summer.

      bmck
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1001: May 27, 2018 01:28:14 pm
      Still think Mignolet should be first out the door.
      Could we see Karius still at the club next season as a backup?
      Dunno. Maybe.
      But I'd still get rid of Migs first, and look to get a top no.1 in.
      FL Red
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1002: May 27, 2018 01:30:36 pm
      Still think Mignolet should be first out the door.
      Could we see Karius still at the club next season as a backup?
      Dunno. Maybe.
      But I'd still get rid of Migs first, and look to get a top no.1 in.

      Klopp isn't going to get rid of Karius, but I can see him being the number 2 if a better option is attainable this summer.
      bmck
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1003: May 27, 2018 01:34:32 pm
      ..if a better option is attainable this summer.

      Imho if Jürgen comes back next season with either Karius or Mignolet as no.1, would think even his biggest fans will be completely disillusioned.
      wellbuilt
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1004: May 27, 2018 01:41:39 pm
      it must be heartbreaking for him. the first mistake was bloody unbelievable.  I have no idea, none whatsoever why he done what he done.

      He has never been good enough, despite having a half decent spell.

      good luck at your new club or back on the bench
      RedWilly
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1005: May 27, 2018 03:03:51 pm
      Really feel for the lad having read his comments. Stuff like that has the potential to be career defining, just hope he has the mental strength to bounce back, even if not at our club.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1006: May 27, 2018 03:21:15 pm
      I have never really been swayed that he's a better keeper than Mignolet. What he did have going for him was the mental side, he didn't let the brain farts affect him for the rest of the game, he was strong enough to bawl out his defence and not be silent, but yesterday he was very Mignolet. His mistake stuck with him and he didn't recover.
      « Last Edit: May 27, 2018 04:12:08 pm by Roddenberry »
      David Wright
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1007: May 27, 2018 03:28:44 pm
      His mistake will stick in the minds of every Liverpool fan, for a very long time.
      lreland
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1008: May 27, 2018 03:57:02 pm
      That three finals lose to players doing silly mistakes you had mig moneo in euopra league final now loris two goals cost us, don't mind lose games when best team beat you off park but if loris number one goalkeeper next year he do same as mig he make more mistakes cost points in league
      lreland
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1009: May 27, 2018 03:59:02 pm
      If he number one goalkeeper next year pressure will be on him he going more mistakes up to boss tell him he be number 2 or send him on loan
      AX1377
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1010: May 27, 2018 04:01:57 pm
      Agreed on everything. What puts me out of my shoes is that we can live with the fact that he's a poor keeper. Ultimately, its not him that put himself as our no1 GK, but why is it that you cant even take the minimum of precautions?

      Why are you throwing the ball without even looking around you? Watch the sequence again (if your heart can take it again) and notice that even if Benzema had not reached the ball, he once again had chosen the player who had the most pressing from RM's forwards when to his left he had two of our players with much more space and time to act once they would've received the ball. I mean,  these are decision-making mistakes I wouldn't expect from a second tier league GK.

      We need two GK with one of them being a true no.1 and the other being a very reliable back up. Its pointless to go get Alisson or whoever only to have the guy sidelined for two months with Mignolet or Karius costing us 4 or 5 points in the process.

      Top level GK literally win games their teams shouldn't have even had got a single point from (look at De Gea, Oblak, Navas, Neueur and co) Karius and Mignolet actually lose us games where the 10 other guys did a good enough job to secure us 3 points.

      I mean, to whomever may disagree, I'm sorry, but what happened yesterday was so bad yet when it happened I didn't even feel surprised or disappointed... guy's been doing this for too long

      Yeah, agreed.

      Good keepers like De Gea, Oblak, Cech in the past, Neuer can save their teams. They can flip games in terms of momentum.

      I've read a few articles since the game, the reality is we have had some very bad keepers since the 90s.

      I just re-watched some howlers from Mignolet during his Liverpool career and there are some howlers. Rewatched the goal he let in against Man City in the League Cup Final, inexcusable. You can just see the effect it has on other players too, imagine working so hard to compete against a very good team and then at the other end, your keeper can let in a very tame, weak effort.

      I think the current problem we have goes back to Rodger's recruitment. Reina was struggling badly for form when he left us, so I wouldn't complain about that. Mignolet was a bad buy, but we didn't invest well in our defence and the two are closely tied together. Skrtel had the ability to be good, I was a fan of his but he had his moments. Sakho too. And lets not forget Moreno.

      We have fixed our LB position, it has made a World of difference. The Van Djik transfer was huge. Great defender, confident, a talker, and you could see it lift our entire defence, Karius' form picked up under him. Still you could see it was Van Djik that was doing the thinking for him half the time i.e. telling him who to pass to, when to come out.

      The only way we correct this is by upgrading personnel, we need an upgrade on Lovren and Karius/Mignolet.

      I did watch the goals again btw. The first goal is something I've seen when we play 5 aside, and we are terrible players. He was not thinking i.e. the game I think was too big for him and he just didn't know what was going on. The 3rd goal, it was straight at him, so even if his body was behind it there would be no goal, but it hits his hands, you can see he panicked as he jumps just before for no reason. He almost halfheartedly tried to flap at it and kind of push it aside.

      Never seen anything like that. Maybe Bierhoff vs Czech Rep. But this was just so much worse.
      heimdall
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      Re: Loris Karius Player Thread
      Reply #1011: May 27, 2018 04:20:16 pm
      Understandable.

      Just not in Klopp’s DNA to bin someone for mistakes.

      And that is Jurgens biggest weakness, he's to nice.

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