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      Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg

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      reddebs
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      Re: Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg
      Reply #69: Jul 18, 2016 07:10:59 pm
      Someone keeps listing Lovren and Matip on the right side of central defense and then Sakho as first choice on the left. Is the consensus on here that Lovren and Matip won't play together, because I've been thinking of Dejan and Joel as the two starters. No?

      This one has me most intrigued. Lovren was undoubtedly improved last season but I didn't personally buy into the overwhelming improvement that some where/are suggesting. I wonder too if Jürgen's first choice pairing might be Matip/Sakho. The interesting part so far is that it's been Lovren that has moved position out of the two. Perhaps it's that Lovren is more comfortable on the left than Matip so it was a simple choice with nobody else to play the left hand side and that Matip has come in as understudy for Lovren on the right but I'm not totally convinced that both will start as the first choice pairing.

      It's a weird one for me too guys as Matip usually plays on the left so I had assumed he would be challenging Sakho for his place but it seems he's comfortable on either side.

      Now for the Lovren/Sakho bit.  In the analysis I posted in the tactics thread the other day, it mentions Sakho specifically for his passing ability and to get the ball quickly to the attackers, fitting Jurgens penchants for quick transitions and also how he covers Morenos vacated space better, being a natural left footer. 

      It could well be Luke that you're right, it could well be a Matip/Sakho partnership but it's great that we have options. 

      Also interesting that the new CB is a natural left footer too.  Is this Jurgens attempt at minimising Morenos defensive faults whilst utilising him as an attacking outlet, rather than replacing him?
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg
      Reply #70: Jul 18, 2016 07:21:44 pm
      It could well be Luke that you're right, it could well be a Matip/Sakho partnership but it's great that we have options.

      It is Debs, the only slight disappointment, and it's a strange one, is that I'd not have let Toure go. I think this new lad, without knowing anything about him at all will struggle to give what Toure did when called upon and even more so in the dressing room.

      Also interesting that the new CB is a natural left footer too.  Is this Jurgens attempt at minimising Morenos defensive faults whilst utilising him as an attacking outlet, rather than replacing him?

      Interesting look at it Debs.

      The more and more I think about Moreno it's clear Jürgen values his attacking influence enormously, so yeah it's quite possible he tries to over compensate in other areas.
      reddebs
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      Re: Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg
      Reply #71: Jul 18, 2016 07:33:20 pm
      It is Debs, the only slight disappointment, and it's a strange one, is that I'd not have let Toure go. I think this new lad, without knowing anything about him at all will struggle to give what Toure did when called upon and even more so in the dressing room.

      Interesting look at it Debs.

      The more and more I think about Moreno it's clear Jürgen values his attacking influence enormously, so yeah it's quite possible he tries to over compensate in other areas.

      Know what you mean about Kolo mate but I don't think Jürgen intended getting anyone else in.  3 injuries out of the 4 CBs before the season even starts is a bit tough to take so I guess it's a needs must mate.

      I mentioned the Moreno scenario before the season ended mate, Jürgen sees something in him otherwise he'd be out the door, so better cover to the side and behind him whilst he bangs some defensive nous into his head is the next best thing  ;)
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg
      Reply #72: Jul 18, 2016 07:37:39 pm
      Know what you mean about Kolo mate but I don't think Jürgen intended getting anyone else in.  3 injuries out of the 4 CBs before the season even starts is a bit tough to take so I guess it's a needs must mate.

      Agreed, does have a "let's not get caught with our pants down" feel about it.

      I mentioned the Moreno scenario before the season ended mate, Jürgen sees something in him otherwise he'd be out the door, so better cover to the side and behind him whilst he bangs some defensive nous into his head is the next best thing

      Doesn't surprise me in the least Debs.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg
      Reply #73: Jul 18, 2016 07:39:47 pm
      I think if Matip stays fit we will see Lovren and Matip as our first choice pair. As you say it will be interesting to see how this one plays out.

      I have never been 100% convinced by Sakho defensively, although I do think he has been our best distributor of the ball from the back even with his strange style and the odd passing mistake.

      The one thing that may convince Jürgen to choose Sakho and Matip ahead of Lovren is pace. I think even Skrtel could have given Lovren a run for his money over 10 or 20 yards and if we play with a high line it could be the deciding factor.

      I'm going with Lovren and Matip for now anyway... but not dismissing Sakho completely.


      I would go with that.

      One of the things that is overlooked is the importance of a partnership to understand intricately your partners game, Sakho can not be relied upon to stay fit. Nothing worse than chopping and changing constantly.

      I'm sure someone put some figures up recently and I was astonished at the number of games Sakho has missed through injury since his arrival.

      shabbadoo
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      Re: Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg
      Reply #74: Jul 18, 2016 08:56:45 pm
      This lad better than Martin Skrtel?...
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg
      Reply #75: Jul 18, 2016 09:26:52 pm
      This lad better than Martin Skrtel?...

      Consensus seems to be far less chance of a "head's gone" moment from him than Martin Shabs.
      bmck
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      Re: Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg
      Reply #76: Jul 18, 2016 09:39:48 pm
      Risky imo getting rid of *both* Skrtel and Toure (2 of the 4 main CBs last season, both with lots of PL experience). Matip might need time to settle so likelihood is even without the injury to Sakho, we'd have needed to bring someone *good* in. So hard not to be underwhelmed by this target. I'd have Toure ahead of this guy.
      But as per with everything happening transfer wise this summer, the addendum is 'Jürgen knows what he's doing'.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg
      Reply #77: Jul 19, 2016 02:15:09 am
      Fun(ny) thread to read at times. A few thoughts:

      1. This transfer should be a reminder of just how much sh*te most of the transfer rumours are - and I mean total sh*te, not a part sh*te part sawdust mix. When it's real, you tend to find out about it when it is about to happen.

      2. With Sakho and Gomez both injured, Klopp had to bring in some cover. I notice the English press (and to some degree fans) are incredibly optimistic when discussing the return of injured players that they will be just as good as they were pre-injury, whenever they come back. I noticed this with Flanagan last season, and I hear it with Ings and Gomez this year. with Gomez i particular, we should hope for the best but we truly don't know what he is going to be like for us this year at all. Sad truth.

      3. Someone keeps listing Lovren and Matip on the right side of central defense and then Sakho as first choice on the left. Is the consensus on here that Lovren and Matip won't play together, because I've been thinking of Dejan and Joel as the two starters. No?




      Didn't the pair play together against Wigan, Matip right side, Lovren left!! Think he'll start with them two unless Sakho is fit for the start of the season.
      harrydunn08
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      Re: Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg
      Reply #78: Jul 19, 2016 02:43:31 am
      This lad better than Martin Skrtel?...

      I think it's safe to say Klopp would have seen plenty of Ragnar while he was at Dortmund.  He should have a good idea what he is capable of as well as what his limitations are.  I trust he knows what he's doing and is confident that Klavan will provide better cover than either Toure/Skrtel.
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg
      Reply #79: Jul 19, 2016 11:44:57 am
      I trust he knows what he's doing and is confident that Klavan will provide better cover than either Toure/Skrtel.
      I thought he was only being signed because of injury to Sakho; news which broke only recently. If that is indeed the case then, "trust", "Toure" and "Skrtel" have absolutely F**k all to do with it.  :laugh:

      Aggerdoo
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      Re: Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg
      Reply #80: Jul 19, 2016 12:32:35 pm
      Release the Kraven!   ;D
      clint_call01
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      Re: Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg
      Reply #81: Jul 19, 2016 02:14:47 pm



      He had his medical.
      mcarz
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      Re: Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg
      Reply #82: Jul 19, 2016 03:08:31 pm

      I thought he was performing a magic trick by managing to stick a coin to his arm as he walks but then I realised it was just a player :(
      clint_call01
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      Re: Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg
      Reply #83: Jul 19, 2016 03:10:49 pm
      I thought he was performing a magic trick by managing to stick a coin to his arm as he walks but then I realised it was just a player :(

      The stick :D :D
      biki
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      Re: Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg
      Reply #84: Jul 19, 2016 04:35:31 pm

      Hopefully he will be equally adhesive when it comes to marking Kane and Aguero and co.
      harrydunn08
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      Re: Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg
      Reply #85: Jul 19, 2016 05:23:34 pm
      I thought he was only being signed because of injury to Sakho; news which broke only recently. If that is indeed the case then, "trust", "Toure" and "Skrtel" have absolutely f**k all to do with it.  :laugh:

      Klopp didn't trust Toure or Skrtel, even as backup which is why they've both gone.  He does trust Ragnar to offer suitable cover, or he wouldn't be signing him.  Simple :)
      MarkMitt
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      Re: Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg
      Reply #86: Jul 19, 2016 06:10:47 pm
      Klopp didn't trust Toure or Skrtel, even as backup which is why they've both gone.  He does trust Ragnar to offer suitable cover, or he wouldn't be signing him.  Simple :)

      Simple nothing. Touré was excellent cover. Vast experience and still a good defender. Only thing going against him was his age.

      Robby The Z
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      Re: Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg
      Reply #87: Jul 19, 2016 06:39:13 pm
      Gomez return date being pushed back also helped lead to Klavan coming in. Remember as well that with the noise WADA is making, Sakho could still be looking at a long ban. I think Pearce mentioned yet another center back could be coming in.
      harrydunn08
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      Re: Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg
      Reply #88: Jul 19, 2016 06:58:21 pm
      Simple nothing. Touré was excellent cover. Vast experience and still a good defender. Only thing going against him was his age.

      You are over complicating this.  If Klopp thought Toure was good enough to justify a contract extension, he would have given him one.  He didn't, so he didn't.  Simple.

      If Klopp thought Skrtel was good enough to keep as 3rd or 4th choice CB, he would have kept him rather than selling him.  He didn't, so he didn't.  Simple. 

      If Klopp didn't think that Ragnar (a player he knows and has seen numerous times while in charge at Dortmund) was good enough to offer sufficient cover at CB, he wouldn't have signed him.  He did, so he did.  Simple. 

      It really is that simple.  ;)
      MarkMitt
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      Re: Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg
      Reply #89: Jul 19, 2016 08:49:07 pm
      You are over complicating this.  If Klopp thought Toure was good enough to justify a contract extension, he would have given him one.  He didn't, so he didn't.  Simple.

      If Klopp thought Skrtel was good enough to keep as 3rd or 4th choice CB, he would have kept him rather than selling him.  He didn't, so he didn't.  Simple. 

      If Klopp didn't think that Ragnar (a player he knows and has seen numerous times while in charge at Dortmund) was good enough to offer sufficient cover at CB, he wouldn't have signed him.  He did, so he did.  Simple. 

      It really is that simple.  ;)

      And the fact he's five years younger than Touré has nothing to do with it?

      JD
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      Re: Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg
      Reply #90: Jul 19, 2016 09:10:30 pm
      Looks like we are sorted for at least 2-3 seasons

      Massive jinx alert! ;)
      MIRO
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      Re: Ragnar Klavan- Augsburg
      Reply #91: Jul 20, 2016 12:42:43 pm
      Got him.

      In for 4.2 mill plus add ons

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