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      Georginio Wijnaldum (Liverpool > PSG)

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      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum Player Thread
      Reply #1012: Sep 23, 2020 03:24:26 pm




      Unlike you Keith to underestimate our players, if he weren’t with us Ole would be after him, he’s as good as you have for sure, I hope things get sorted out between him & the club, if not good luck to the lad, he has given us more than anyone could ask for, it’s possible the deal offered isn’t as good as he could get at Barca, if so, that’s fair enough, he’ll give his all for us in the time he has left, I think Jürgen trusts him to do that and not just take the money and warm the bench.




                                                                                    Y  N  W  A

      Just a different opinion on this one Billy.
      FL Red
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum Player Thread
      Reply #1013: Sep 23, 2020 03:27:52 pm
      I thought we wanted depth and options?

      If he's so unimportant why would he draw such a transfer fee in the final year of his contract.

      Anyway, disagreeing about his value is fine, but I think it's been pretty well established that he's not moving this year. That story was put to bed in the last couple of weeks.



      Yea he's not going anywhere. He's literally the only midfielder (aside from maybe Fab) that we can count on to always be healthy. I think even Milner missed more games due to injury than Gini.
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum Player Thread
      Reply #1014: Sep 23, 2020 03:51:40 pm
      Yea he's not going anywhere. He's literally the only midfielder (aside from maybe Fab) that we can count on to always be healthy. I think even Milner missed more games due to injury than Gini.

      perhaps that's why we have 8 midfielders
      billythered
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum Player Thread
      Reply #1015: Sep 23, 2020 04:20:04 pm
      Just a different opinion on this one Billy.



      No worries Keith mate 😁
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum Player Thread
      Reply #1016: Sep 23, 2020 04:27:23 pm
      In an ideal world he'd accept his new contract and stay in the squad but it seems that he he doesn't want that, he wants to run down his contract and f**k the club over.
      You have to ask yourself, is he worth £600k per week this season, is he really that crucial to our team now that we have Thiago, yes or no?

      My problem is with "and f**K the club over." He has a contract. He gets paid for the duration of it and so long as he is putting in the work and performing at the standard expected, he's doing no such thing. If a player's contract expires and the club stops paying him a wage, are they screwing the player over? Of course not. Players aren't bought to be sold, they are bought to perform during the time for which they are under contract.

      I don't accept your question. Thiago makes the team better, but that doesn't equal the idea that Gini is no longer important. He still brings value. You are always going about more value, more players to do a job and provide depth and more opportunity to challenge on multiple fronts. Keeping Gini does that.

      If Gini doesn't want to be here THIS year then we're talking about something else, but I've heard no hint of that.
      CT_LFC
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum Player Thread
      Reply #1017: Sep 23, 2020 04:44:39 pm
      In an ideal world he'd accept his new contract and stay in the squad but it seems that he he doesn't want that, he wants to run down his contract and f**k the club over.
      You have to ask yourself, is he worth £600k per week this season, is he really that crucial to our team now that we have Thiago, yes or no?

      That is a really poor, ignorant approach.

      Let's review the definition of "F**k the club over" with an example:

      Player A signs a long-term contract extension and couple months later demands a transfer and refuses to play for the team, going as far as faking injury and force his move.

      Remember him?
      LondonRed83
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum Player Thread
      Reply #1018: Sep 23, 2020 04:46:31 pm
      My problem is with "and f**K the club over." He has a contract. He gets paid for the duration of it and so long as he is putting in the work and performing at the standard expected, he's doing no such thing. If a player's contract expires and the club stops paying him a wage, are they screwing the player over? Of course not. Players aren't bought to be sold, they are bought to perform during the time for which they are under contract.

      I don't accept your question. Thiago makes the team better, but that doesn't equal the idea that Gini is no longer important. He still brings value. You are always going about more value, more players to do a job and provide depth and more opportunity to challenge on multiple fronts. Keeping Gini does that.

      If Gini doesn't want to be here THIS year then we're talking about something else, but I've heard no hint of that.

       if Wijnaldum wants to play another season with Liverpool and leave to join someone on a Bosman for a massive pay packet then so be it, he can do what he wants and I’m sure Klopp wouldn’t hate him for it. He’s been superb for us, hardly ever injured and a big game player!

      Love him
      ruthcity
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum Player Thread
      Reply #1019: Sep 23, 2020 07:53:57 pm
      Thiago makes the team better, but that doesn't equal the idea that Gini is no longer important. He still brings value.

      I think there’s something you don’t understand. Let me help you. ;D

      Based on an entirely new management style I learnt recently, which is really cutting edge, no one has used it yet, so modern, it’s going to be the next big trend over the next few years, every good manager is going to be doing like this...

      You bring in a Thiago. He walks into the first team. Someone loses his place at Thiago’s benefit. Because Thiago is also human, imperfect. He will have off days. When he does, punish him to the bench. Argue that there’s no one pushing him for the starting role and he’s getting complacent. Support your argument by saying there’s no one on the bench good enough to provide real competition for Thiago. Mention how poor your bench and the disappointing Thiago is. Talk down on your players.

      Then, the grass is always greener on the other side. Praise whichever team that looks infallible including the coaches and the players. Talk up every player outside of your own team as if your team is useless. Because it seems like only other players apart from your team are the solution. Advocate getting rid your bench in attempt to upgrade them to world class first team players. And to keep everyone happy, you’ll implement the buzzword called rotation as the answer. In actual fact, it’s punishment in the name of the great rotation.

      And you’re confident of telling these world class players they’ll be playing only 50% of all matches because you’ll need to keep the other world class lad happy. Or they’ll get to play when you decide to punish the other world class lad.

      Goals and appearance bonuses? This new management style has yet to incorporate it. So I guess the players remuneration will sort itself out automatically. Or you just tell them to suck it up and lose those because you decided to punish them.

      Hope enlightenment to this new unproven management style will help to explain why Gini is no longer important. It’s therefore important that we sell him now to collect back some ££££.

      Oh wait. I think I remember that I found perpetual success of this management style on a simulator. My team was invincible. 100% win rate. Partly because I cheated by not progressing if I dropped a single point.  :aaliverpool2xt1:
      king kenny
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum Player Thread
      Reply #1020: Sep 23, 2020 11:36:54 pm
      I think there’s something you don’t understand. Let me help you. ;D

      Based on an entirely new management style I learnt recently, which is really cutting edge, no one has used it yet, so modern, it’s going to be the next big trend over the next few years, every good manager is going to be doing like this...

      You bring in a Thiago. He walks into the first team. Someone loses his place at Thiago’s benefit. Because Thiago is also human, imperfect. He will have off days. When he does, punish him to the bench. Argue that there’s no one pushing him for the starting role and he’s getting complacent. Support your argument by saying there’s no one on the bench good enough to provide real competition for Thiago. Mention how poor your bench and the disappointing Thiago is. Talk down on your players.

      Then, the grass is always greener on the other side. Praise whichever team that looks infallible including the coaches and the players. Talk up every player outside of your own team as if your team is useless. Because it seems like only other players apart from your team are the solution. Advocate getting rid your bench in attempt to upgrade them to world class first team players. And to keep everyone happy, you’ll implement the buzzword called rotation as the answer. In actual fact, it’s punishment in the name of the great rotation.

      And you’re confident of telling these world class players they’ll be playing only 50% of all matches because you’ll need to keep the other world class lad happy. Or they’ll get to play when you decide to punish the other world class lad.

      Goals and appearance bonuses? This new management style has yet to incorporate it. So I guess the players remuneration will sort itself out automatically. Or you just tell them to suck it up and lose those because you decided to punish them.

      Hope enlightenment to this new unproven management style will help to explain why Gini is no longer important. It’s therefore important that we sell him now to collect back some ££££.

      Oh wait. I think I remember that I found perpetual success of this management style on a simulator. My team was invincible. 100% win rate. Partly because I cheated by not progressing if I dropped a single point.  :aaliverpool2xt1:

       :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum Player Thread
      Reply #1021: Sep 24, 2020 09:06:22 am
      My problem is with "and f**K the club over." He has a contract. He gets paid for the duration of it and so long as he is putting in the work and performing at the standard expected, he's doing no such thing. If a player's contract expires and the club stops paying him a wage, are they screwing the player over? Of course not. Players aren't bought to be sold, they are bought to perform during the time for which they are under contract.

      I don't accept your question. Thiago makes the team better, but that doesn't equal the idea that Gini is no longer important. He still brings value. You are always going about more value, more players to do a job and provide depth and more opportunity to challenge on multiple fronts. Keeping Gini does that.

      If Gini doesn't want to be here THIS year then we're talking about something else, but I've heard no hint of that.


      Any player is an asset to the club, they are not simply employed like you or I. They hold a specific value which can be traded between clubs, therefore if a players contract lapses the club loses that value which can be a significant sum of money, why else do you think clubs constantly renew the contracts of their best players?
      If the club decide to keep Gini despite him refusing a new contract then only Gini will benefit in a years time as he'll be a free agent and get higher wages at the next club but the club will lose any transfer fee, in that regard it could be said that the player is F***ing the club over, but it could also be argued that the club is stupid to be letting that happen, especially for a player who I do not see as being crucial any more.

      So let me please ask you again is Gini worth £600k per week to our current team, is he really that important? You have to answer this question please or at least explain why you refuse.
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum Player Thread
      Reply #1022: Sep 24, 2020 09:08:48 am
      That is a really poor, ignorant approach.

      Let's review the definition of "f**k the club over" with an example:

      Player A signs a long-term contract extension and couple months later demands a transfer and refuses to play for the team, going as far as faking injury and force his move.

      Remember him?

      Is that the player we sold for £140m, funding the purchase of Virgil and Allison, remind me how that is F***ing the club over exactly? I am talking financial F***ing over here, not what us fans think or feel, if  a player runs down their contract then the club loses money, that is never good.
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum Player Thread
      Reply #1023: Sep 24, 2020 09:11:58 am
      I think there’s something you don’t understand. Let me help you. ;D

      Based on an entirely new management style I learnt recently, which is really cutting edge, no one has used it yet, so modern, it’s going to be the next big trend over the next few years, every good manager is going to be doing like this...

      You bring in a Thiago. He walks into the first team. Someone loses his place at Thiago’s benefit. Because Thiago is also human, imperfect. He will have off days. When he does, punish him to the bench. Argue that there’s no one pushing him for the starting role and he’s getting complacent. Support your argument by saying there’s no one on the bench good enough to provide real competition for Thiago. Mention how poor your bench and the disappointing Thiago is. Talk down on your players.

      Then, the grass is always greener on the other side. Praise whichever team that looks infallible including the coaches and the players. Talk up every player outside of your own team as if your team is useless. Because it seems like only other players apart from your team are the solution. Advocate getting rid your bench in attempt to upgrade them to world class first team players. And to keep everyone happy, you’ll implement the buzzword called rotation as the answer. In actual fact, it’s punishment in the name of the great rotation.

      And you’re confident of telling these world class players they’ll be playing only 50% of all matches because you’ll need to keep the other world class lad happy. Or they’ll get to play when you decide to punish the other world class lad.

      Goals and appearance bonuses? This new management style has yet to incorporate it. So I guess the players remuneration will sort itself out automatically. Or you just tell them to suck it up and lose those because you decided to punish them.

      Hope enlightenment to this new unproven management style will help to explain why Gini is no longer important. It’s therefore important that we sell him now to collect back some ££££.

      Oh wait. I think I remember that I found perpetual success of this management style on a simulator. My team was invincible. 100% win rate. Partly because I cheated by not progressing if I dropped a single point.  :aaliverpool2xt1:

      Wow people actually finished reading that crap and up ticked it, I dosed off half way through, must try harder Ruth, try to be a bit more concise with your "hilarious" sarcasm, don't waffle.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum Player Thread
      Reply #1024: Sep 24, 2020 09:34:18 am
      Any player is an asset to the club, they are not simply employed like you or I. They hold a specific value which can be traded between clubs, therefore if a players contract lapses the club loses that value which can be a significant sum of money, why else do you think clubs constantly renew the contracts of their best players?
      If the club decide to keep Gini despite him refusing a new contract then only Gini will benefit in a years time as he'll be a free agent and get higher wages at the next club but the club will lose any transfer fee, in that regard it could be said that the player is f**king the club over, but it could also be argued that the club is stupid to be letting that happen, especially for a player who I do not see as being crucial any more.

      So let me please ask you again is Gini worth £600k per week to our current team, is he really that important? You have to answer this question please or at least explain why you refuse.

      But dont you think the choice should come down to the club and or manager?

      What if Barca have only offered 5m? Which is hypothetical but so is your 25m
      Then maybe the club think Gini is worth more to us staying here for this season on the pitch than the offer.

      The manager may think his influence within the group and on the pitch is worth far more than letting him go for a nominal fee now?

      Hes on 75k a week. So that's about 2.5m between now and May when his deal runs out

      Balance on the pitch and within the dressing room in real life is different to cashing in on FM
      JD
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum Player Thread
      Reply #1025: Sep 24, 2020 09:36:26 am
      If he's not signing a new contract it makes sense to let him go.  They end up getting pushed to the periphery of the team and ultimately become a bit of a negative force on the rest of the squad.

      That's just a cold hard fact and seen it more times than not with players who are heading for the exit.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum Player Thread
      Reply #1026: Sep 24, 2020 09:49:29 am
      We would be better off selling Gini now and using the money to sign a back up CB so Fab doesn't have to play there unless absolutely necessary.
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum Player Thread
      Reply #1027: Sep 24, 2020 10:01:51 am
      But dont you think the choice should come down to the club and or manager?

      What if Barca have only offered 5m? Which is hypothetical but so is your 25m
      Then maybe the club think Gini is worth more to us staying here for this season on the pitch than the offer.

      The manager may think his influence within the group and on the pitch is worth far more than letting him go for a nominal fee now?

      Hes on 75k a week. So that's about 2.5m between now and May when his deal runs out

      Balance on the pitch and within the dressing room in real life is different to cashing in on FM

      Yes, it of course depends on how much his transfer value is and of course it is the choice of the club, but most reports were suggesting around £20m for Gini which is a big chunk of cash to lose.

      Using your analogy lets say his base salary is £2.5m for the season, if you add to that losing £20m in transfer value then his effective weekly salary becomes £600k which is obviously huge, my question is, is he worth that? If the club thinks so then fine, but it makes no sense to me and personally I would not want to have a player around who doesn't want to accept the contract, it might potentially disrupt the squad as some might take his side and some the club's.
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum Player Thread
      Reply #1028: Sep 24, 2020 10:22:32 am
      Wow people actually finished reading that crap and up ticked it, I dosed off half way through, must try harder Ruth, try to be a bit more concise with your "hilarious" sarcasm, don't waffle.


      Leave Ruth alone, she's sound as a pound.  :) Pick on me instead but wait till I find my dictionary  :lmao:
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum Player Thread
      Reply #1029: Sep 24, 2020 10:36:01 am
      Any player is an asset to the club, they are not simply employed like you or I. They hold a specific value which can be traded between clubs, therefore if a players contract lapses the club loses that value which can be a significant sum of money, why else do you think clubs constantly renew the contracts of their best players?
      If the club decide to keep Gini despite him refusing a new contract then only Gini will benefit in a years time as he'll be a free agent and get higher wages at the next club but the club will lose any transfer fee, in that regard it could be said that the player is f**king the club over, but it could also be argued that the club is stupid to be letting that happen, especially for a player who I do not see as being crucial any more.

      So let me please ask you again is Gini worth £600k per week to our current team, is he really that important? You have to answer this question please or at least explain why you refuse.

      I reject the premise of the question and have already explained why in the post you are answering above. I don't have to answer it. Gini is valuable to us, very valuable to our on-field performance. You are entitled to disagree, but he has been repeatedly selected for a reason.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum Player Thread
      Reply #1030: Sep 24, 2020 10:38:01 am
      Wow people actually finished reading that crap and up ticked it, I dosed off half way through, must try harder Ruth, try to be a bit more concise with your "hilarious" sarcasm, don't waffle.

      All she did was write what you more or less have been saying in your entire dialogue.

      EDIT - Swab is correct, "monologue."

      « Last Edit: Sep 24, 2020 11:16:17 am by Robby The Z »
      Swab
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum Player Thread
      Reply #1031: Sep 24, 2020 11:12:04 am
      All she did was write what you more or less have been saying in your entire dialogue.

      *monologue.
      CT_LFC
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum Player Thread
      Reply #1032: Sep 24, 2020 02:00:15 pm
      Is that the player we sold for £140m, funding the purchase of Virgil and Allison, remind me how that is f**king the club over exactly? I am talking financial f**king over here, not what us fans think or feel, if  a player runs down their contract then the club loses money, that is never good.

      You live in a really weird world.

      A player who quit on his teammates, coach and everyone is ok because we were able to sucker a desperate Barcelona into a massive fee, but a player who honors his contract with exemplary behavior until the last minute is f**king the team over.

      Real world: 1+1 = 2
      Heimdall's world: 1+1 = apples!
      « Last Edit: Sep 24, 2020 02:05:34 pm by CT_LFC »
      CT_LFC
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum Player Thread
      Reply #1033: Sep 24, 2020 02:04:00 pm
      I reject the premise of the question and have already explained why in the post you are answering above. I don't have to answer it. Gini is valuable to us, very valuable to our on-field performance. You are entitled to disagree, but he has been repeatedly selected for a reason.

      Gini probably has as big a hand print on our recent success as anyone.

      The performance he had in that 2nd half against Barcelona is for the ages. If not for those 2 goals, guess what, there is no CL trophy, which means there is no Super Cup and no Club World Cup.

      ruthcity
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum Player Thread
      Reply #1034: Sep 24, 2020 04:13:38 pm
      Are you sure you found that management style on a simulator because it sounds very hodgsonesque to me. 😉

      :lmao:

      I'm pretty sure some football management expert wrote a manual on this. I just happened to have read about this management style recently. It's so cutting edge that I won't be surprised at least one of us would claim to be the one who wrote it, although most of us wouldn't...

      I think I applied this management style to a simulator and the results were great. It kind of validated this method in some way. However, the simulator found world class players to be unhappy playing 50% of the time. But the manual said we should expect players to be happy being rotated (maybe my simulator has a bug). And if world class players don't join you for this reason, it's their own fault because they lack ambition.

      Last but the most important thing, the manager who adopts this system is never ever at fault. It's always someone else. I found it to be quite an interesting bulletproof, whip-based management system.

      While most of us interested readers do not judge nor condemn this system, I do realise that people raise a lot of questions (which is normal since it pushes the envelope), largely to gather more answers and to test the soundness of the system and to understand more. Hopefully a version two of the manual can address any inconsistencies raised by interested readers. Maybe that's why no manager has used this method extensively yet. I'll shall keep everyone updated should there be any updates to this unique management style.

      Sorry for sidetrack. Let's return to Gini Wijnaldum.

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