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      Liverpool WW2 relatives

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      6stringer
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      Liverpool WW2 relatives
      Aug 11, 2016 11:37:45 pm
      Went back through the forum to see if there was a thread about relatives stories and the odd picture of those who fought in WW2 ? or WW1 for that matter..?. you know, did their bit so to speak..
      I say this, because I was told recently of my Great Uncle John and his incredible journey through the second world war.

      He was one of 4 brothers.
      Three of his brothers worked on the docks unloading the hundreds of merchant ships for the entire war.
      That in itself is incredible.
      The forth brother, my great uncle joined the Liverpool Welsh 46th Royal Tank Regiment in 39 and went on drive his Valentine tank through Egypt.
      El Alemain, Anzio in Italy and then through Normandy into Germany.
      One battle in Egypt against Rommels army he was in one of four Valentine tanks that survived out of eighty nine in a four hour battle..
      That's Nuts !!
      I have attached a picture of him leaning against his Valentine tank..

      Valentines we're death traps, having to carry their own fuel in massive containers on the side along with loads of ammunition ..

      I've done some research on his deployments via a few military websites/forums involving the Liverpool Welsh 46th RTR and some of the stories are truly inspirational...

      The 46th RTR was eventually disbanded and handed over to the US Army as they pushed through Italy in 44.

      My Uncle John survived the war.

      any other incredible stories from your relatives..?
      « Last Edit: Aug 11, 2016 11:53:40 pm by 6stringer »
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Liverpool WW2 relatives
      Reply #1: Aug 11, 2016 11:43:07 pm
      My granddad was a boy during WW2, his house got hit by a bomb that didn't explode. He was found in his bed, in the rubble, still asleep.
      6stringer
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      Re: Liverpool WW2 relatives
      Reply #2: Aug 11, 2016 11:51:46 pm
      My granddad was a boy during WW2, his house got hit by a bomb that didn't explode. He was found in his bed, in the rubble, still asleep.

      Crazy !!..
      My Grandfather, a docker was heading down scotty road to start his shift when he witnessed a direct hit on a munition ship in seaforth docks.. The blast knocked hm to the ground... lucky man.
      reddebs
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      Re: Liverpool WW2 relatives
      Reply #3: Aug 12, 2016 09:02:14 am
      My father in law was in the merchant navy, part of the Pacific fleet and was torpedoed by the Japenese on numerous occasions.  No idea how the hell his ships were never hit but he survived.

      Billy1
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      Re: Liverpool WW2 relatives
      Reply #4: Aug 17, 2016 08:53:10 am
      My Dad was in the R.A.F. and was stationed in Burma in the second world war,he was only 56 when he died and I put his health problems down to that war.I was born in 1938 and recall the blackouts and the sirens going when the jerries were attacking Liverpool,There was a P.O.W. camp put up between Stockbridge Lane and Woolfall Heath Road in the Page Moss area.That great Man City goalkeeper Bert Trautman was interned there and played for the P.O.W team,naturally they did not play any away games in case they escaped.
      FL Red
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      Re: Liverpool WW2 relatives
      Reply #5: Aug 17, 2016 03:33:51 pm
      Both of my wife's grandfathers were at Bastogne during the Bulge but didn't know it till years later. One of her grandfathers survived the D-Day assault as well. Unfortunately they aren't around anymore to relay those stories. Our greatest generation.
      Shabs
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      Re: Liverpool WW2 relatives
      Reply #6: Aug 17, 2016 11:23:14 pm
      Got a picture of my mothers grandfather who was a major in the British Army...also my fathers grandfather too was a major in the British Army.

      Done a stint in Burma & we have Burmese relatives as Chinese...

      Going to try and dig a little deeper to find out more about both...
      6stringer
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      Re: Liverpool WW2 relatives
      Reply #7: Aug 18, 2016 10:07:18 pm
      It's so hard to imagine what our relatives went through during those uncertain times.
      Wherever you where conflict was unavoidable ..

      Got a picture of my mothers grandfather who was a major in the British Army...also my fathers grandfather too was a major in the British Army.

      Done a stint in Burma & we have Burmese relatives as Chinese...

      Going to try and dig a little deeper to find out more about both...

      I found a cool site which, providing you know your relatives ID/army number, can give you loads of info should you be interested in finding out.
      https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk

      Both of my wife's grandfathers were at Bastogne during the Bulge but didn't know it till years later. One of her grandfathers survived the D-Day assault as well. Unfortunately they aren't around anymore to relay those stories. Our greatest generation.

      That's incredible !

      My Dad was in the R.A.F. and was stationed in Burma in the second world war,he was only 56 when he died and I put his health problems down to that war.I was born in 1938 and recall the blackouts and the sirens going when the jerries were attacking Liverpool,There was a P.O.W. camp put up between Stockbridge Lane and Woolfall Heath Road in the Page Moss area.That great Man City goalkeeper Bert Trautman was interned there and played for the P.O.W team,naturally they did not play any away games in case they escaped.

      Never knew there was an internment camp in Page Moss..
      Did Bert T have stint in the Army?Navy? Airforce? how was he captured?

      Billy1
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      Re: Liverpool WW2 relatives
      Reply #8: Aug 19, 2016 08:31:08 am
      It's so hard to imagine what our relatives went through during those uncertain times.
      Wherever you where conflict was unavoidable ..

      I found a cool site which, providing you know your relatives ID/army number, can give you loads of info should you be interested in finding out.
      https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk

      That's incredible !

      Never knew there was an internment camp in Page Moss..
      Did Bert T have stint in the Army?Navy? Airforce? how was he captured?



      The POW camp was definitely there,as kids we used to look through the wire fence at the germans.From what I can gather Bert Trautmann was a paratrooper and he was captured in Russia but escaped,he was later captured a second time in a barn by the allied forces and interned.He must of done something memorable as the Germans awarded him the iron cross.He was playing for St Helens Town and was spotted by Man City and the supporters were not originally very happy with City signing him.Irrespective of what people thought about him as a German and the war he was one hell of a good goalkeeper as he proved at Wembley in a F.A. Cup final.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Liverpool WW2 relatives
      Reply #9: Aug 19, 2016 04:30:16 pm
      My Grandad was a Belgian commando, had served in the Belgian Merchant Navy, won two of the biggest medals of honour you can be awarded in Belgium (I have one, the other is in the Belgian War Museum in Brussels). I believe he fought alongside British commando's (those that went on to become the SAS) in mainland Europe and walked into Belsen, where they freed prisoners and were a bit upset they couldn't feed them (a similar story to what is shown in Band Of Brothers) when the US soldiers free jewish prisoners from a death camp and become upset when they can't feed them on orders from superiors.

      Couple of little bits I do know a bible saved his life when he was shot by a German, think the German had aimed for his heart and the bullet hit the bible in his pocket and got embedded into that. He also won a bravery award for dragging and carrying a fellow soldier away, who had been shot back to base and saved his life.

      Taking a break from training with British Commandos he met a Scouse lass from the Dingle and the rest is history.

      Got told once by older relatives/friends that he was one of the hardest fellas they had ever met, yet a quiet gentleman at the same time, yet to me he was my Grandad who took me to watch the firemen training at Huyton fire station, when my mum and nan wanted to go shopping.


      PS - He absolutely hated Germans :laugh:
      crouchinho
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      Re: Liverpool WW2 relatives
      Reply #10: Aug 19, 2016 04:59:43 pm
      Love reading stories about WWI and WWII. Keep 'em coming!
      Billy1
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      Re: Liverpool WW2 relatives
      Reply #11: Aug 20, 2016 10:00:14 am
      I gave my Dads 3 medals to my eldest lad last  year and asked him to pass them on to the grandson when he felt the time was right.
       When the war ended every street in Liverpool put a party in the street for the kids,I don't know how our parents managed it with the wartime rationing.When my Dad came home from Burma I recall him taking us to the British Legion in Longview where they put on a party for the kids of the returned servicemen.
       That was supposed to be the war to end all wars but when you look at the world today it is worse than ever.
       Huyton Red,regarding your Grandad hating the Germans that was the general concencus in 1945.
      reddebs
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      Re: Liverpool WW2 relatives
      Reply #12: Aug 20, 2016 10:32:49 am
      Another bit on my in laws.

      Mum in law was born in Cardiff and was moved to lancs whilst  working for the NAAFY, this is where they met whilst Dad in law was on leave. 

      There was no time for a "relationship" they married within 3 weeks of meeting on Boxing Day 1944 with Dad in law shipping out again the day after.  They didn't see each other again till January 1946 when Dad returned from Australia having been demobbed in Fremantle.   

      Their 1st child, a daughter was born September 29th 1945. 

      My dad served in the army but not during the war as he was only a kid but to remember both his Grandads and other family members my son is having a family tree tattoo done which includes their ships ensign and regimental colours on it.

      Also my Godfather was Lithuanian but living in Poland when the Germans invaded, he along with a cousin and his uncle escaped in a boat when he was 12 years old.  I've no idea how he arrived in England but he never saw any of his family again.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Liverpool WW2 relatives
      Reply #13: Aug 22, 2016 01:12:14 pm
      Huyton Red,regarding your Grandad hating the Germans that was the general concencus in 1945.

      I only say that because I had an old German POW as a neighbour, who also married a scouser!! Everytime my grandad came up to ours and saw him he'd walk back in the house swearing in Belgian :laugh:

      Billy1
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      Re: Liverpool WW2 relatives
      Reply #14: Aug 23, 2016 08:17:26 am
      I only say that because I had an old German POW as a neighbour, who also married a scouser!! Everytime my grandad came up to ours and saw him he'd walk back in the house swearing in Belgian :laugh:



      The Yanks were also hated in Liverpool at that time,if you read the history of the Eagle and Child (the bird and the b***ard as it was known) the Yanks were kicked out of the Page Moss area by the local lads.The Yanks used to come to Page Moss from Burtonwood and some of the local girls fell for them and that upset the local lads.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Liverpool WW2 relatives
      Reply #15: Aug 28, 2016 01:56:47 pm
      The Yanks were also hated in Liverpool at that time,if you read the history of the Eagle and Child (the bird and the b***ard as it was known) the Yanks were kicked out of the Page Moss area by the local lads.The Yanks used to come to Page Moss from Burtonwood and some of the local girls fell for them and that upset the local lads.

      I know of the Eagle and Child all too well cos my nan lived around Page Moss, well off Woolfall Heath anyway and plus for a time my mum worked in the Kwik Save in Page Moss. So she was always used to the drunken dickheads that would go in there after they had been in the Eagle and Child. Remember my brother when he was about 15 threatening to batter one of the arl drunken cu*ts cos they were abusing my mum at the till over a packet of kit-kats. Fella absolute sh*t himself when he saw my brother wasn't messing, needed the store security and my mum to calm him down!!
      Billy1
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      Re: Liverpool WW2 relatives
      Reply #16: Aug 29, 2016 12:22:05 am
      I know of the Eagle and Child all too well cos my nan lived around Page Moss, well off Woolfall Heath anyway and plus for a time my mum worked in the Kwik Save in Page Moss. So she was always used to the drunken dickheads that would go in there after they had been in the Eagle and Child. Remember my brother when he was about 15 threatening to batter one of the arl drunken cu*ts cos they were abusing my mum at the till over a packet of kit-kats. Fella absolute sh*t himself when he saw my brother wasn't messing, needed the store security and my mum to calm him down!!

      There was no Kwik Save in the 1940s/5os and 60s as far as I am aware.There was a police station at the top of Stockbridge lane Page Moss end,is it still there.
      6stringer
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      Re: Liverpool WW2 relatives
      Reply #17: Aug 29, 2016 10:14:04 pm
      I managed to do some research into some of the desert battles my Great Uncle John and his tank regiment was involved in.
      He was in the 46th.
      The military details of the battle are just spellbinding.
      A lot of Scousers in this battle as well

      Here's an extract ;

      The two regiments, with approximately eighty-seven Valentines between them and each with one squadron in the van, crossed the start line about ten minutes past eight, and a little later New Zealand observers saw them ‘thundering past’ along the 278 grid, covered to some extent by a smoke screen put down on the ridge by the brigade's own artillery. On the right, C Squadron of the 40th Regiment came under heavy artillery and anti-tank fire at the same time as it struck the minefield about the pipeline track. Here it lost seven tanks. By 8.40 the remainder of the regiment was engaged just north of Mreir, where ten more tanks were lost and the commanding officer, Lieutenant-Colonel Dunbar, mortally wounded. The attack was pressed and the objective, Point 59, was reached at about ten minutes past ten, but with only four tanks in C Squadron, five in B and six in A. This little group was severly engaged by fire from both flanks and also by German tanks from Mreir. By 10.30 only eight tanks were left and of these only five were fit to fight.
      The 46th Regiment on the left met a similar fate. Its leading squadron and regimental headquarters lost four tanks on the pipe-line minefield and from fire from the eastern corner of Mreir. B Squadron then moved up on the right and lost four tanks on the mines. C Squadron swung to the south in an effort to find a way through but lost five more tanks to mines and anti-tank fire. The remainder of the squadron pressed on but, with the exception of two tanks, was not heard of again. By ten minutes past nine, A Squadron with only twelve tanks reached its objective. Here it met such intense tank and anti-tank fire that it was forced on to the remnants of 40 Regiment on Point 59. B Squadron had ceased to exist.
      By eleven o'clock the two regiments had only twelve battle worthy tanks. Their plight appears to have been reported by patrol of the 10th Hussars from 2 Armoured Brigade which was trying to make contact with New Zealanders in Mreir. By midday support from 2 Brigade had been arranged and the survivors of 23 Brigade were withdrawn. They mustered four tanks of 40 Regiment and three of the 46th. These were formed into a composite squadron and put under the command of 3/5 Royal Tank Regiment. In four hours the brigade had lost approximately 30 officers, 173 other ranks, and 80 tanks.


      it goes on...

      Clifton and Pemberton removed their badges of rank and helped the wounded. The German infantry did not interfere and the two officers gradually worked their way back to Mreir. On their way they saw the German tanks return through the area to go into action against 23 Armoured Brigade. For the remainder of the day the two officers acted as assistants to Private McQuarrie,1 a medical orderly of 25 Battalion. McQuarrie stopped the German tank commander as he drove back through the battle area, and asked for medical assistance for the numerous wounded who had been left by their captors as too badly injured to walk to the rear.
      To his everlasting credit, the panzer general said the battle was still on and nothing was possible immediately but that McQuarrie had his authority to demand assistance from any medical unit into the area.
      Clifton, Pemberton, and McQuarrie collected medical supplies, water and stores from abandoned vehicles, dressed the wounded, gave morphia, and made constant brews of tea. The two officers brought in another dozen wounded from the area and buried many of dead. By the late, afternoon several fit and lightly wounded joined the group. German infantry, who busied themselves with salvage, did not interfere and as evening approached escape plans were made. Towards dusk, about 8.30, a truckload of Germans came up to take over the position for the night. On their appearance Clifton, Pemberton, and Lieutenants Rutherford and Holt2 went into cover. McQuarrie drew the German officer's attention to his wounded and extracted a promise that medical help wold be given. The Germans then put soome lightly wounded men in a truck and drove off.
      When the coast was clear, Clifton and Pemberton moved down the axis of advance and, after several adventures, escaped into the Maori Battalion's sector. Rutherford and Holt were wounded and chose the shorter route direct to the east. Holt was wounded in the leg and thus could not make haste. The two officers also has to avoid German posts and at dawn were still in no-man's-land and under fire from both sides. Eventually they reached safety with 5 Indian Division. McQuarrie stayed with his wounded until about midnight when, in response to his persistent demands, the Germans evacuated the casualties. While this was in progress McQuarrie slipped away and reached safety. The Military Medal he was awarded a had been well earned.


      The mere fact the battle was halted on both sides to allow medical assistance to the wounded and to allow access to the derelict tanks in no mans land to grab the medical kits is just unbelievable..
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Liverpool WW2 relatives
      Reply #18: Sep 01, 2016 10:54:14 am
      There was no Kwik Save in the 1940s/5os and 60s as far as I am aware.There was a police station at the top of Stockbridge lane Page Moss end,is it still there.

      I wasn't talking about the 40s/50s/60s at that point tbf think that would of been more mid 90s :laugh: christ how old do you think I am  :lmao:

      Don't think there has been a police station that way for a good while, would of been all centralised into Huyton police station.

      I managed to do some research into some of the desert battles my Great Uncle John and his tank regiment was involved in.
      He was in the 46th.
      The military details of the battle are just spellbinding.
      A lot of Scousers in this battle as well

      Here's an extract ;

      The two regiments, with approximately eighty-seven Valentines between them and each with one squadron in the van, crossed the start line about ten minutes past eight, and a little later New Zealand observers saw them ‘thundering past’ along the 278 grid, covered to some extent by a smoke screen put down on the ridge by the brigade's own artillery. On the right, C Squadron of the 40th Regiment came under heavy artillery and anti-tank fire at the same time as it struck the minefield about the pipeline track. Here it lost seven tanks. By 8.40 the remainder of the regiment was engaged just north of Mreir, where ten more tanks were lost and the commanding officer, Lieutenant-Colonel Dunbar, mortally wounded. The attack was pressed and the objective, Point 59, was reached at about ten minutes past ten, but with only four tanks in C Squadron, five in B and six in A. This little group was severly engaged by fire from both flanks and also by German tanks from Mreir. By 10.30 only eight tanks were left and of these only five were fit to fight.
      The 46th Regiment on the left met a similar fate. Its leading squadron and regimental headquarters lost four tanks on the pipe-line minefield and from fire from the eastern corner of Mreir. B Squadron then moved up on the right and lost four tanks on the mines. C Squadron swung to the south in an effort to find a way through but lost five more tanks to mines and anti-tank fire. The remainder of the squadron pressed on but, with the exception of two tanks, was not heard of again. By ten minutes past nine, A Squadron with only twelve tanks reached its objective. Here it met such intense tank and anti-tank fire that it was forced on to the remnants of 40 Regiment on Point 59. B Squadron had ceased to exist.
      By eleven o'clock the two regiments had only twelve battle worthy tanks. Their plight appears to have been reported by patrol of the 10th Hussars from 2 Armoured Brigade which was trying to make contact with New Zealanders in Mreir. By midday support from 2 Brigade had been arranged and the survivors of 23 Brigade were withdrawn. They mustered four tanks of 40 Regiment and three of the 46th. These were formed into a composite squadron and put under the command of 3/5 Royal Tank Regiment. In four hours the brigade had lost approximately 30 officers, 173 other ranks, and 80 tanks.


      it goes on...

      Clifton and Pemberton removed their badges of rank and helped the wounded. The German infantry did not interfere and the two officers gradually worked their way back to Mreir. On their way they saw the German tanks return through the area to go into action against 23 Armoured Brigade. For the remainder of the day the two officers acted as assistants to Private McQuarrie,1 a medical orderly of 25 Battalion. McQuarrie stopped the German tank commander as he drove back through the battle area, and asked for medical assistance for the numerous wounded who had been left by their captors as too badly injured to walk to the rear.
      To his everlasting credit, the panzer general said the battle was still on and nothing was possible immediately but that McQuarrie had his authority to demand assistance from any medical unit into the area.
      Clifton, Pemberton, and McQuarrie collected medical supplies, water and stores from abandoned vehicles, dressed the wounded, gave morphia, and made constant brews of tea. The two officers brought in another dozen wounded from the area and buried many of dead. By the late, afternoon several fit and lightly wounded joined the group. German infantry, who busied themselves with salvage, did not interfere and as evening approached escape plans were made. Towards dusk, about 8.30, a truckload of Germans came up to take over the position for the night. On their appearance Clifton, Pemberton, and Lieutenants Rutherford and Holt2 went into cover. McQuarrie drew the German officer's attention to his wounded and extracted a promise that medical help wold be given. The Germans then put soome lightly wounded men in a truck and drove off.
      When the coast was clear, Clifton and Pemberton moved down the axis of advance and, after several adventures, escaped into the Maori Battalion's sector. Rutherford and Holt were wounded and chose the shorter route direct to the east. Holt was wounded in the leg and thus could not make haste. The two officers also has to avoid German posts and at dawn were still in no-man's-land and under fire from both sides. Eventually they reached safety with 5 Indian Division. McQuarrie stayed with his wounded until about midnight when, in response to his persistent demands, the Germans evacuated the casualties. While this was in progress McQuarrie slipped away and reached safety. The Military Medal he was awarded a had been well earned.


      The mere fact the battle was halted on both sides to allow medical assistance to the wounded and to allow access to the derelict tanks in no mans land to grab the medical kits is just unbelievable..

      That was a good read.
      Billy1
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      Re: Liverpool WW2 relatives
      Reply #19: Sep 01, 2016 11:07:26 am
      I wasn't talking about the 40s/50s/60s at that point tbf think that would of been more mid 90s :laugh: christ how old do you think I am  :lmao:

      Don't think there has been a police station that way for a good while, would of been all centralised into Huyton police station.

      .

      I know how old you are,its just that I was brought up in the Page Moss area and I drove the buses to Page Moss ,Dovecot .Huyton and Prescott areas and know the area quite well.
        By the way do you still use your bus pass when you go to the match,we have got to look after you old fellers. :laugh: :f_tongueincheek:
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Liverpool WW2 relatives
      Reply #20: Sep 01, 2016 11:10:31 am
      I know how old you are,its just that I was brought up in the Page Moss area and I drove the buses to Page Moss ,Dovecot .Huyton and Prescott areas and know the area quite well.
        By the way do you still use your bus pass when you go to the match,we have got to look after you old fellers.

      Hahahaha nah get a lift these days from my younger brother!!

      Get what you're saying like as my mum was brought up round there, Barkbeth Road off Woolfall Heath was where my nan lived up until she died 11 years ago.
      shawspeed
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      Re: Liverpool WW2 relatives
      Reply #21: Sep 25, 2016 09:34:13 pm
      Hahahaha nah get a lift these days from my younger brother!!

      Get what you're saying like as my mum was brought up round there, Barkbeth Road off Woolfall Heath was where my nan lived up until she died 11 years ago.

      I lived in Rosebank Road now demolished when I was a kid.

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