Arsenal 3-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

Thing is though, it's all well and good having a laugh at Cech letting in 4, but it's not a regular occurrence him letting in many goals in a game where as Mignolet lets in 3 goals in single game far too often.

For an established number one; who is one of the best keepers in the league to concede four like that then proceed to right his car off afterwards, needs shooting IMO. F***ing terry-bubble that.

For an established number one; who is one of the best keepers in the league to concede four like that then proceed to right his car off afterwards, needs shooting IMO. F***ing terry-bubble that.

Writing off his car has no baring on his performance or anything. Every now and again a top keeper like Cech will let in 3 or 4 goals but the fact remains, it's all well and good laughing at Cech for doing it but Migs does that a lot more often. I couldn't give a rats arse whether Cech has written his car off or not, I'm more worried about the amount of goals our keeper lets in on a regular basis.

I am far more worried about our midfield than I am about Mignolet or Moreno. We hardly won a tackle or an header in midfield (65/35%). And that was against Arsenal hardly the most physical of teams. If we don't improve (or change personnel) we will be in all sorts of trouble against some of the more powerful midfield runners.

First game of the season so not going to get too carried away, but a win at Arsenal is a great start to the season.

Relieved that Coutinho finally showed up after a strangely quiet period carried over from the end of last season. Our game changer really changed the game with a wonderful free kick.

Great result that is hopefully the start to a great season. 

This thread is most probably be the only one that points out what could possibly be a huge chink in the armor. Yes, Moreno is a raging bull with little brain, his positioning and decision is poor  but watch carefully, where is the defensive cover for him? I'm not siding Moreno, no reason to. We don't have any quality cover from a DM. Hendo, no where to be seen, Wijnaldum, Lallana and Fiminho jogging back somewhere further up the pitch. We don't have a pure  DM in the first place, to start with. Why are we continuing to procrastinate? We can have a world class left back to replace Moreno but this LB can only take that much if there's no defensive cover for him when anything and everything runs at him, he'll succumb to pressure eventually.

3 of the 4 goals are down to individual briallince and little to suggest that Wijnaldum and Firminho played a big part in these goals, and it is very worrying. We don't need passengers but players that contribute to the game. We can't expect Cou and Mane to get us out of jail everytime. Ok, Lallana is poor as well but he does on occassions scores us that odd goal here and there, but where is Hendo and Firminho?? They need to start contributing to the goals. Klopp needs to use his sledgehammer and we don't need lazy buggers in our team. Yesterday's team is a little imbalance too much fire power in the likes of Mane, Cou, Fir and Lallana and too little cover for the defense. 

If we had a Hamann yesterday, who acts like a windscreen viper covering the LB and RB we would most probably have avoided at least 1 goal conceded. Watching the game over 95 minutes, Wijnaldum and Firminho is piss poor. Honestly speaking, I can't see what are their real contributions in the game except for some back and side passes. We need a Clynne to run almost 1/2 the length of the pitch to supply Cou the cross to score suggests that we have an underperformed midfiled.

I'm sorry to say that Firminho is not what we are looking for in a Liverpool player, he jogs around strings a few passes together and that's about it. Some said he needed time, well it has been something like 30 over games and he still looks the same player, no improvement, no real commitment from him and of course, he will be world class in 1 in every 5 games and gone missing in 4 the next games and Wijnaldum is heading the same direction. Huely dissapointed with Wijnaldum so far. Wijnaldum and Mane is gulf apart.  We need contributors in the game not passengers.  Firminho and Wijnaldum in the same team only spells disaster.

Ace result..great game second half, four world class goals, great penalty save.
Clyne was our only attacking player in that first half.. we couldn't string two or three passes together.
Brilliant blitzkrieg of 20 minutes of Thrash Metal made my ears bleed..

Screaming I was ! Laughing my head off..

If we win 4-3 every week I don't give a sh*t what any pr**k on the telly or radio says.. 7-6, 3-2, 8-6 makes no f***in odds to me..

and all this sh*t about how Arsenal had load's of injuries..
What about our injuries !! two of our brand new signings never even got on the pitch yesterday..and Studge stayed at home!
Even Gareth F**kin Crooks is now saying if we don't find a left back we're gonna get relegated !! WTF !
Who the f**k is Gareth Crooks?? Bellend

3 points in the bag, first cockney scalp of the season..

Burnley up next... oo-ek ! I'm putting a tenner on a 5-4 win 

 Burnley 0-LFC 3.  You saw it here first

I'm not siding Moreno, no reason to. We don't have any quality cover from a DM. Hendo, no where to be seen, Wijnaldum, Lallana and Fiminho jogging back somewhere further up the pitch. We don't have a pure  DM in the first place, to start with. Why are we continuing to procrastinate? We can have a world class left back to replace Moreno but this LB can only take that much if there's no defensive cover for him when anything and everything runs at him, he'll succumb to pressure eventually.

Agree with this, we need a CDM. Been crying out for one longer than the need for a left back.

3 of the 4 goals are down to individual briallince and little to suggest that Wijnaldum and Firminho played a big part in these goals, and it is very worrying. We don't need passengers but players that contribute to the game. We can't expect Cou and Mane to get us out of jail everytime. Ok, Lallana is poor as well but he does on occassions scores us that odd goal here and there, but where is Hendo and Firminho?? They need to start contributing to the goals. Klopp needs to use his sledgehammer and we don't need lazy buggers in our team. Yesterday's team is a little imbalance too much fire power in the likes of Mane, Cou, Fir and Lallana and too little cover for the defense.

This is harsh. Wijnaldum had an assist for the Lallana goal and he did a decent job. Klopp said in the post match press conference the midfield needs to help out our fullbacks more. Eg, help out clyne on the chamberlain goal. Our midfield (Lallana and Wijnaldum) need to help out our fullbacks more. Perhaps that can come with more game time. Still need a real DM tho.

https://twitter.com/Coral/status/765179804165570561

Burnley 0-LFC 3.  You saw it here first

Does that score mean we will play our reserves,after the Arse result we should be able to put 5 in the Burnley net.

Does that score mean we will play our reserves,after the Arse result we should be able to put 5 in the Burnley net.

The Arse net may prove more welcoming than the Burnley one.

The Arse net may prove more welcoming than Burnley's.

Have faith mate ,have faith in Jürgen and the mighty Reds.

This thread is most probably be the only one that points out what could possibly be a huge chink in the armor. Yes, Moreno is a raging bull with little brain, his positioning and decision is poor  but watch carefully, where is the defensive cover for him?

Then why does Clyne on the other side not have the same problems as Moreno on his? Whatever about the defensive cover in front of both of them, Moreno at end of last season and start of this has made individual errors that have cost us. Could argue some are due to him pushing forward quickly to join attacks ie. doing Jurgens bidding, but most are just head in hands, seen it before, wondering what's going through his head.
I like Moreno's attitude, he's high energy and obviously tries hard, but his decision making surely needs to improve.

Could argue some are due to him pushing forward quickly to join attacks ie. doing Jurgens bidding

I've seen this point raised plenty and agree with it to an extent but in no way will Jürgen say "ignore all danger". In reference to his positioning on the first against Arsenal he goes forward without ensuring what he's left behind is safe, does it gain him an advantage on his counterpart if we spring into counterattack? Of course it does but the reward must always outweigh the risk and that's where he lets us down too often.

If it is the case that Jürgen says to him that he must spring forward at the first moment we have the ball then I'm sure that one of the midfielders must watch the space he leaves behind. My belief is that it's Moreno's responsibility to wait until we have controlled possession before he launches himself forward and on this occasion he went too early. As has been pointed out previously though he damn nearly got back, not many players would have got even close so if, and I understand it's an enormous if, Jürgen can coach him to make the right choices at the right time there's a player there. Personally I think Jürgen has set himself a very tough challenge due to Moreno's mentality but it will certainly run and run all season.

I've seen this point raised plenty and agree with it to an extent but in no way will Jürgen say "ignore all danger". In reference to his positioning on the first against Arsenal he goes forward without ensuring what he's left behind is safe, does it gain him an advantage on his counterpart if we spring into counterattack? Of course it does but the reward must always outweigh the risk and that's where he lets us down too often.

If it is the case that Jürgen says to him that he must spring forward at the first moment we have the ball then I'm sure that one of the midfielders must watch the space he leaves behind. My belief is that it's Moreno's responsibility to wait until we have controlled possession before he launches himself forward and on this occasion he went too early. As has been pointed out previously though he damn nearly got back, not many players would have got even close so if, and I understand it's an enormous if, Jürgen can coach him to make the right choices at the right time there's a player there. Personally I think Jürgen has set himself a very tough challenge due to Moreno's mentality but it will certainly run and run all season.

Good point about the reward to risk scenario, I think most of us would not have much to complain with Moreno if the rewards were greater than the risks.
Personally for me his rewards are minimal on an attacking front to counteract his defensive frailties and that is not just down to the fact that he has joined the attack because in that instance it is up to the covering midfielders to step in.

He just does not have the positional knowledge of a defender even when he is in a defensive line.

Can this be positional sense be taught? - maybe that is what Jürgen is hoping he can instil into Moreno and along with a better defensive cover from midfield Morenos criticisms can be ironed out to a degree as hopefully during the course of the season he can improve his offensive output so the risk to reward is tilted more in favour of the reward.

This thread is most probably be the only one that points out what could possibly be a huge chink in the armor. Yes, Moreno is a raging bull with little brain, his positioning and decision is poor  but watch carefully, where is the defensive cover for him? I'm not siding Moreno, no reason to. We don't have any quality cover from a DM. Hendo, no where to be seen, Wijnaldum, Lallana and Fiminho jogging back somewhere further up the pitch. We don't have a pure  DM in the first place, to start with. Why are we continuing to procrastinate? We can have a world class left back to replace Moreno but this LB can only take that much if there's no defensive cover for him when anything and everything runs at him, he'll succumb to pressure eventually.

3 of the 4 goals are down to individual briallince and little to suggest that Wijnaldum and Firminho played a big part in these goals, and it is very worrying. We don't need passengers but players that contribute to the game. We can't expect Cou and Mane to get us out of jail everytime. Ok, Lallana is poor as well but he does on occassions scores us that odd goal here and there, but where is Hendo and Firminho?? They need to start contributing to the goals. Klopp needs to use his sledgehammer and we don't need lazy buggers in our team. Yesterday's team is a little imbalance too much fire power in the likes of Mane, Cou, Fir and Lallana and too little cover for the defense. 

If we had a Hamann yesterday, who acts like a windscreen viper covering the LB and RB we would most probably have avoided at least 1 goal conceded. Watching the game over 95 minutes, Wijnaldum and Firminho is piss poor. Honestly speaking, I can't see what are their real contributions in the game except for some back and side passes. We need a Clynne to run almost 1/2 the length of the pitch to supply Cou the cross to score suggests that we have an underperformed midfiled.

I'm sorry to say that Firminho is not what we are looking for in a Liverpool player, he jogs around strings a few passes together and that's about it. Some said he needed time, well it has been something like 30 over games and he still looks the same player, no improvement, no real commitment from him and of course, he will be world class in 1 in every 5 games and gone missing in 4 the next games and Wijnaldum is heading the same direction. Huely dissapointed with Wijnaldum so far. Wijnaldum and Mane is gulf apart.  We need contributors in the game not passengers.  Firminho and Wijnaldum in the same team only spells disaster.

Such a massive disaster we won for only the second time at Arsenal for 16 years! Disaster for Wenger maybe, not for us.

Not sure I agree with you other than the fact we didnt play a proper DM and I agree Hendo might not be the best solution there, I'm not sure if you're right about a few things.

Wjnaldum assisted Lallanas goal, it was his run beyond Coutinho and his cross. He had a quiet first half but was pretty efficient in the second. It was also his strength and desire to win the ball and move it on to Lallana, who played Mane in down the right. Yes its individual brilliance but the ball doesn't get that far without Wjnaldum. Watch it again, you may have missed it.

I'm not Firminos biggest fan and he wasn't at his best on Sunday, but he certainly scores goals if last season is anything to go on. Let's see how he gets on this season.

I think we did get overrun a little and I'm not sure we should persist with Hendo in the middle of a three man midfield, so I do agree we could do with a specialist DM, but perhaps that's where Can will play sometimes this season?

Considering we won, and in truth were it not for Morenos brainfarts and the whole team switching off after our 4th, it would have been a lot more comfortable, I think the balance of risk and reward playing such an offensive formation and personnel was judged well by Klopp.

I've seen this point raised plenty and agree with it to an extent but in no way will Jürgen say "ignore all danger". In reference to his positioning on the first against Arsenal he goes forward without ensuring what he's left behind is safe, does it gain him an advantage on his counterpart if we spring into counterattack? Of course it does but the reward must always outweigh the risk and that's where he lets us down too often.

If it is the case that Jürgen says to him that he must spring forward at the first moment we have the ball then I'm sure that one of the midfielders must watch the space he leaves behind. My belief is that it's Moreno's responsibility to wait until we have controlled possession before he launches himself forward and on this occasion he went too early. As has been pointed out previously though he damn nearly got back, not many players would have got even close so if, and I understand it's an enormous if, Jürgen can coach him to make the right choices at the right time there's a player there. Personally I think Jürgen has set himself a very tough challenge due to Moreno's mentality but it will certainly run and run all season.

Still think it's a fault of the covering defenders and midfield though Luke. 

Whether we agree with Jurgens methods or not, it's not Morenos responsibility to make sure there's cover behind him.  He plays to transition triggers, the main one being to get on his bike as soon as we move the ball forward and it's the players behind and to the side who are failing to read those triggers and position themselves ready for if the move breaks down.

Klavan and Gini are still learning that and to an extent Hendo and Lallana were also in unfamiliar territory and all were sucked in towards the ball.

It'll come with training and regular drilling as it'll be second nature to them all, we've just got to adjust our thinking in what we expect from our lfb, cos it isn't to defend 

Writing off his car has no baring on his performance or anything. Every now and again a top keeper like Cech will let in 3 or 4 goals but the fact remains, it's all well and good laughing at Cech for doing it but Migs does that a lot more often. I couldn't give a rats arse whether Cech has written his car off or not, I'm more worried about the amount of goals our keeper lets in on a regular basis.

Well, at the end of the day Mig's let in 3, Cech 4.

We won.

Still think it's a fault of the covering defenders and midfield though Luke. 

Whether we agree with Jurgens methods or not, it's not Morenos responsibility to make sure there's cover behind him.  He plays to transition triggers, the main one being to get on his bike as soon as we move the ball forward and it's the players behind and to the side who are failing to read those triggers and position themselves ready for if the move breaks down.

Klavan and Gini are still learning that and to an extent Hendo and Lallana were also in unfamiliar territory and all were sucked in towards the ball.

It'll come with training and regular drilling as it'll be second nature to them all, we've just got to adjust our thinking in what we expect from our lfb, cos it isn't to defend 

All fair points as usual Debs.

Then why does Clyne on the other side not have the same problems as Moreno on his?

To be fair he did have problems in this game. He's not as bad a Alberto but Chamberlains goal and the foul that lead to the free kick for Chambers goal was due to Clyne i think (could be wrong). He just doesnt make obvious gaffs like Moreno

Agree with this, we need a CDM. Been crying out for one longer than the need for a left back.

This is harsh. Wijnaldum had an assist for the Lallana goal and he did a decent job. Klopp said in the post match press conference the midfield needs to help out our fullbacks more. Eg, help out clyne on the chamberlain goal. Our midfield (Lallana and Wijnaldum) need to help out our fullbacks more. Perhaps that can come with more game time. Still need a real DM tho.

Fair assessment there bud. perhaps I'm a bit impatient with Wijnaldum but all for the good cause of seeing the club do well early in the season, nothing personal against the player.

Such a massive disaster we won for only the second time at Arsenal for 16 years! Disaster for Wenger maybe, not for us.

Not sure I agree with you other than the fact we didnt play a proper DM and I agree Hendo might not be the best solution there, I'm not sure if you're right about a few things.

Wjnaldum assisted Lallanas goal, it was his run beyond Coutinho and his cross. He had a quiet first half but was pretty efficient in the second. It was also his strength and desire to win the ball and move it on to Lallana, who played Mane in down the right. Yes its individual brilliance but the ball doesn't get that far without Wjnaldum. Watch it again, you may have missed it.

I'm not Firminos biggest fan and he wasn't at his best on Sunday, but he certainly scores goals if last season is anything to go on. Let's see how he gets on this season.

I think we did get overrun a little and I'm not sure we should persist with Hendo in the middle of a three man midfield, so I do agree we could do with a specialist DM, but perhaps that's where Can will play sometimes this season?

Considering we won, and in truth were it not for Morenos brainfarts and the whole team switching off after our 4th, it would have been a lot more comfortable, I think the balance of risk and reward playing such an offensive formation and personnel was judged well by Klopp.

Well said mate, fair assessment. Maybe I;m expecting too much of Wijnaldum at such an early stage of the season but with a good reason to see him do well and the team as a whole.

Then why does Clyne on the other side not have the same problems as Moreno on his? Whatever about the defensive cover in front of both of them, Moreno at end of last season and start of this has made individual errors that have cost us. Could argue some are due to him pushing forward quickly to join attacks ie. doing Jurgens bidding, but most are just head in hands, seen it before, wondering what's going through his head.
I like Moreno's attitude, he's high energy and obviously tries hard, but his decision making surely needs to improve.

Bud, Moreno is the weaker of the two, that's the very reason why he needs more defensive cover than Clynne.  Clynne is a much better player than Moreno, that's for sure at the moment. What I'm trying to say is, Moreno, being Moreno,  he will be as such until he begins to use his brain a little bit more, perhaps he will improve with more game time. i sincerely hope so. But in the meantime, someone needs to provide him that extra cover non other than a DM. Perhaps Can is the best candidate at the moment.

Bud, Moreno is the weaker of the two, that's the very reason why he needs more defensive cover than Clynne.  Clynne is a much better player than Moreno, that's for sure at the moment. What I'm trying to say is, Moreno, being Moreno,  he will be as such until he begins to use his brain a little bit more, perhaps he will improve with more game time. i sincerely hope so. But in the meantime, someone needs to provide him that extra cover non other than a DM. Perhaps Can is the best candidate at the moment.

Imo rather than have guys covering for him and maybe hampering them too, imo would drop him until he can improve on the errors (rash tackles in dangerous areas, and being too far out of position) ... can't afford to be wiping bums... if we want to challenge, don't need passengers.
If we don't have any option but to play him while his form is rash, then that's a problem for the mgmt/signing committee to resolve before the end of the season ie. sign someone better.

I've seen this point raised plenty and agree with it to an extent but in no way will Jürgen say "ignore all danger". In reference to his positioning on the first against Arsenal he goes forward without ensuring what he's left behind is safe, does it gain him an advantage on his counterpart if we spring into counterattack? Of course it does but the reward must always outweigh the risk and that's where he lets us down too often.

If it is the case that Jürgen says to him that he must spring forward at the first moment we have the ball then I'm sure that one of the midfielders must watch the space he leaves behind. My belief is that it's Moreno's responsibility to wait until we have controlled possession before he launches himself forward and on this occasion he went too early. As has been pointed out previously though he damn nearly got back, not many players would have got even close so if, and I understand it's an enormous if, Jürgen can coach him to make the right choices at the right time there's a player there. Personally I think Jürgen has set himself a very tough challenge due to Moreno's mentality but it will certainly run and run all season.

Moreno's reaction just after Wolcott's goal went in was to whirl around and gesture which I took as "where was the cover?" Of course it's not a problem if Lallana doesn't give the ball away so naively and credit to Arsenal, they were lethal on that occasion once they got possession.

I once had an assistant coach foisted upon me with a team and she used to shout a lot about players "not being there" - but most of the time her expectation seemed to be that players could instantaneously teleport themselves to a spot 40 yards away in order to fulfill two conflicting responsibilities. We seem to be built primarily for attacking and that may leave more opportunities in our end than we are comfortable with. I am more bothered with some of Moreno's challenges and decisions with the ball than what he did on that first goal.