Manchester United 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

I am not playing the blame game, I am unfortunately stating fact.
We have a threadbare squad and knowing what I do about Klopp cannot imagine it being his doing or choice.

If we had won those trophies and do win some under Jürgen I would be made up, as made up as anyone on this forum.
We didn't and the threadbare squad Jürgen juggles with the lack of quality in depth means the manager is facing an uphill task.

Small margins, very small margins, large margins, multicolour margins - they all translate as winning zilch.

You aren't stating fact at all, if you are then please produce proof. I specifically want to see transcripts of meetings where Klopp is begging for money but being told no way and then somehow being forced into saying that all is fine and dandy and that he has plenty of money to spend. I find it appalling that you have such a low opinion of Jürgen Klopp that you think he would act like a complete wimp and bow to their every demand without even trying to leak the slightest hint of dissatisfaction. Do you perhaps think that FSG are holding his family hostage or something because that is about the only way that could happen.

I mean what proof do you actually have that Klopp is being denied money by the owners? I think its time to put up or shut up on this issue, if you have proof of Klopp being denied funds then provide it!

I normally stay out of this Stuey, really don't like getting into this argument but to be honest with you this is exactly how Klopp operates and every legitimate source out there said he did not want a big squad for this season, and is not into buying ready-made players if they do not meet his very strict criteria; and that he sees very little value in the January winter. It has been noted ad nausea that he refuses to buy a player for the short term and if a target that he wants is unavailable then he won't go out and get a poor mans version just for the sake of it, he'd rather see what he has in his own system to fill gaps and give them a chance.

Every manager has their own way of operating mate but I refuse to accept that Klopp chooses to place himself at a deliberate disadvantage to our rivals.
That is exactly what the lack of quality in depth means to any team.

Even a cursory review of his pressers and statements say's that this is either the truth and/or he is lying out his arse. The manager is not a yes man and if he was underwhelmed or under-supported by the owners than he would not of signed an extension...fact is he could angrily walk tomorrow and have a top job anywhere in the world he wanted.

Klopp wants the best for LFC, we have seen what happens to managers who the owners believe is not toeing the line.
Much better to stay on board and have the opportunity to affect matters.

I really have little doubt that he has carte blanche at LFC with money, authority, final word and everything that does or does not happen is up to him because that is exactly how he told us it was.

Same answer as above mate.

On a lighter note peeps,.....

Guardiola rings the Moaneyone.....
Hey Jose, you gotta watch out for those scousers, I got charged £15 for a pie & bovril at Woodison,

Jose; That's F**k all Pep, I paid £89m for a black pudding !

 

Every manager has their own way of operating mate but I refuse to accept that Klopp chooses to place himself at a deliberate disadvantage to our rivals.
That is exactly what the lack of quality in depth means to any team.

I don't know Stu...he has said there is plenty of money and it is his choice, so that is either the case or he is just a talking head for the owners as you really can't have it any other way.

I think he wants to add players but I also think that going into this season with no Europe he did not want a big squad and at the same time wanted to get some opportunities for players like Kev Stewart, Ejaria and TAA. When you look at the beginning of the season we had Origi, Sturridge, Ings, Klaven, & Can on the bench unto which to draw. We have had our injuries and the thing with Matip is as strange as its going to get however when Mane & Matip come back in we once again have a pretty solid group as back-ups so I do no see our squad as threadbare for a club that is not in Europe. Granted next season we are going to need 5-6 new faces to compete across all competitions when we are in Europe.

I just respectfully agree to disagree with you as I refuse to accept that Klopp would A) sign an extension with no financial support from ownership. B) Would stay at LFC if he was being lied to (no matter what he make think of the supporters or players)  C.) is a stoolie for the owners and just towing the company line.

I have seen no real proof other than the gaffers words

And the Liverpool boss insists he is not interested in what any of his rivals are doing while praising the “healthy” backing he has received from Anfield owners Fenway Sports Group during the transfer window.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/klopp-avoids-mourinho-spat-praises-11744779

If you don't have the biggest injury issues in the world and you need players only for the line-up then you should only do things you would do in the summer too, because otherwise you solve a problem for half a year then have another one in the summer," Klopp said.

"We always have an eye on the market but that doesn't mean we can do what we want always.

"If we have an eye on a player then he is a good player and probably plays in a good club and if this club doesn't need money then we have no chance.

"We want to have players who are ready to develop and that's not a message for the winter transfer window, it's a message for the next few years."

"You can be sure we are prepared, but that doesn't mean that we do something.

"We are already looking for summer, that's how it should be, and maybe we can bring these two windows together and do the right thing in the right moment.

"If not, we will not do it."

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11669/10706904/liverpool-boss-Jürgen-klopp-does-not-expect-a-busy-january-transfer-window

I don't know Stu...he has said there is plenty of money and it is his choice, so that is either the case or he is just a talking head for the owners as you really can't have it any other way.

I think he wants to add players but I also think that going into this season with no Europe he did not want a big squad and at the same time wanted to get some opportunities for players like Kev Stewart, Ejaria and TAA. When you look at the beginning of the season we had Origi, Sturridge, Ings, Klaven, & Can on the bench unto which to draw. We have had our injuries and the thing with Matip is as strange as its going to get however when Mane & Matip come back in we once again have a pretty solid group as back-ups so I do no see our squad as threadbare for a club that is not in Europe. Granted next season we are going to need 5-6 new faces to compete across all competitions when we are in Europe.

I just respectfully agree to disagree with you as I refuse to accept that Klopp would A) sign an extension with no financial support from ownership. B) Would stay at LFC if he was being lied to (no matter what he make think of the supporters or players)  C.) is a stoolie for the owners and just towing the company line.

I have seen no real proof other than the gaffers words

And the Liverpool boss insists he is not interested in what any of his rivals are doing while praising the “healthy” backing he has received from Anfield owners Fenway Sports Group during the transfer window.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/klopp-avoids-mourinho-spat-praises-11744779

If you don't have the biggest injury issues in the world and you need players only for the line-up then you should only do things you would do in the summer too, because otherwise you solve a problem for half a year then have another one in the summer," Klopp said.

"We always have an eye on the market but that doesn't mean we can do what we want always.

"If we have an eye on a player then he is a good player and probably plays in a good club and if this club doesn't need money then we have no chance.

"We want to have players who are ready to develop and that's not a message for the winter transfer window, it's a message for the next few years."

"You can be sure we are prepared, but that doesn't mean that we do something.

"We are already looking for summer, that's how it should be, and maybe we can bring these two windows together and do the right thing in the right moment.

"If not, we will not do it."

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11669/10706904/liverpool-boss-Jürgen-klopp-does-not-expect-a-busy-january-transfer-window

As you say Erik we shall have to agree to disagree, time will be the judge.

Asked a similar question before..."IF" Messi, Or Suarez for that matter was available and wanted to join Liverpool but would cost us in the region of £180-£220 million on a 4 year deal, given their age respectively (Messi 29..24/06/87) and (Suarez  29..24/01/87) Given the FSG policy of "buying young players with a resalable value" would FSG sanction their purchase considering (a) the sharp drop of in value both players have being 33 at the end of said contract (b) the likelihood that they many choose to retire at the end of thier contract... and if not, is it not proof that Klopp's hands are indeed tied when it comes to the purchase of players?

Asked a similar question before..."IF" Messi, Or Suarez for that matter was available and wanted to join Liverpool but would cost us in the region of £180-£220 million on a 4 year deal, given their age respectively (Messi 29..24/06/87) and (Suarez  29..24/01/87) Given the FSG policy of "buying young players with a resalable value" would FSG sanction their purchase considering (a) the sharp drop of in value both players have being 33 at the end of said contract (b) the likelihood that they many choose to retire at the end of thier contract... and if not, is it not proof that Klopp's hands are indeed tied when it comes to the purchase of players?

In fairness mate I don't think EITHER Jürgen or FSG would sanction the purchase.

Asked a similar question before..."IF" Messi, Or Suarez for that matter was available and wanted to join Liverpool but would cost us in the region of £180-£220 million on a 4 year deal, given their age respectively (Messi 29..24/06/87) and (Suarez  29..24/01/87) Given the FSG policy of "buying young players with a resalable value" would FSG sanction their purchase considering (a) the sharp drop of in value both players have being 33 at the end of said contract (b) the likelihood that they many choose to retire at the end of thier contract... and if not, is it not proof that Klopp's hands are indeed tied when it comes to the purchase of players?

Nothing to do with a or b they (FSG) have always we will always spend within our means i.e. What we generate, so quite simply that amount of transfer funds, and that's not inc wages is out of our reach.

Edit. Only Chelsea spend more than us as a percentage of our turnover.

Asked a similar question before..."IF" Messi, Or Suarez for that matter was available and wanted to join Liverpool but would cost us in the region of £180-£220 million on a 4 year deal, given their age respectively (Messi 29..24/06/87) and (Suarez  29..24/01/87) Given the FSG policy of "buying young players with a resalable value" would FSG sanction their purchase considering (a) the sharp drop of in value both players have being 33 at the end of said contract (b) the likelihood that they many choose to retire at the end of thier contract... and if not, is it not proof that Klopp's hands are indeed tied when it comes to the purchase of players?

At that outlay it doesn't make sense when you are looking at the business side of the club, we may not want to but it's the simple facts of economics

It's like you going for a mortgage and are able to afford a 250k house... If the bank won't give you money for a £2m house are they tying your hands? Or are they allowing you to live within your means?

I'm not the owners biggest fans more more reasons than simple transfer funds but the example you give isn't really a realistic one.

Look the way I look at it is this, Klopp must be happy with the work he is doing and the peramitors he works within, he's one of the most saughtafter managers in the game, he could pretty much get any job in world football yet he chose to come here and build something, and even if we think FSG lied to him in initial talks and are tying his hands then why did he sign a new six year contract?

Maybe those who think FSG are doing that and are holding us back should focus on Jürgen with the same thoughts as he states constantly this is how he works, there's no way a manager so highly thought of in the game would stand for it if he was t happy with the setup.

On a lighter note

Guardiola rings the Moaneyone.....
Hey Jose, you gotta watch out for those scousers, I got charged £15 for a pie & bovril at Woodison,

Jose; That's F**k all Pep, I paid £89m for a black pudding !

 

On an even lighter note, that sounds eerily familiar...

"Poster 'billythered' has been hit with a 8 day suspension from www. lfcreds. com, for the use of suspected racist language towards a well known manc footballer.

Despite the standard lack of visual or audio evidence to back up this allegation, tptb held an independent review, by calling in Sir Biased Manc, a professor of English at Oxford University, and season ticket holder at manc football games to determine whether the uttering of the English language phrase, "black pudding" was deemed to be racist. Having consulted his own in-house dictionary, Sir Biased determined that while pudding itself is a popular English dish, the use of the word before it constituted racist language, while the reported cost of it was also seen as a gargatuan waste of money. This was later confirmed by French and Italian nationals at the University. Subsequently, tptb have applied the "Babel" ruling, where innocent members of the football community can face sanctions for posting or reposting allegations of a personal nature about football personalities. Tptb have also reassured Sir Biased that while it's acceptable to sing about past events at football stadiums that have nothing to do with his club on a weekly basis, and condoned by his fellow singers, the use, or implied use, of the term "black",  will see a zero tolerance approach applied to the individuals concerned.

Despite the application of the sanction, the poster is apparently entitled to appeal the decision. However the use of the phrase concerned means, according to www. lfcreds. com sources, that his chances of overturning the decision are low. At the end of the appeals process, (should there be one) the above suspension shall take immediate effect".

....None of the above is true, but unlike the FA, we defend the right of Liverpool fans to laugh at the mancs at all times.

Thank you HScRed1,bigmick,& Kopite78 for you input, But does this mean that LFC under FSG (You never know we might someday get a owner willing to spend money on the very best of players), But does this mean that under FSG ownership that Jürgen Klopp will only by able to buy players that he can mould into capable players with the ability to play his style of football and never be allowed to buy players who would have no trouble playing his style of football while bringing "real quality" to the team simply because they cost to much?... Are we doomed under FSG to look for Second, Third, or Forth best?

Don't get me wrong here Klopp says all the right things, "that he does not want players coming to Liverpool for the money"... And yes in many ways I agree with that, But... If you are a Top player, still hungry for success, With no real preference when it comes to Premier League clubs does not the amount you get paid (along with the chance to play at the highest level, and what you can archive)) have a bearing on where you choose to go?..

Going off point, sorry...

We are hampering ourselves only buy "Young players with resalable value" It is turn us in to "Feeder Club" and when a young player reaches a certain level in step the big money clubs to buy them up. (Something that I believe FSG are actively promoting)...

I believe that come 2017/18 season Coutinho and maybe even Mane will have the "Big" European Club really sniffing around and FSG will be only to willing to sell, and it will really dawn on Jürgen Klopp that FSG are not trying to build a dynasty with LFC, by are rather using the club as a Cash Breeding Sow lead to Klopp’s departure soon afterwards, which should concern us all

Thank you HScRed1,bigmick,& Kopite78 for you input, But does this mean that LFC under FSG (You never know we might someday get a owner willing to spend money on the very best of players), But does this mean that under FSG ownership that Jürgen Klopp will only by able to buy players that he can mould into capable players with the ability to play his style of football and never be allowed to buy players who would have no trouble playing his style of football while bringing "real quality" to the team simply because they cost to much?... Are we doomed under FSG to look for Second, Third, or Forth best?

Don't get me wrong here Klopp says all the right things, "that he does not want players coming to Liverpool for the money"... And yes in many ways I agree with that, But... If you are a Top player, still hungry for success, With no real preference when it comes to Premier League clubs does not the amount you get paid (along with the chance to play at the highest level, and what you can archive)) have a bearing on where you choose to go?..

Going off point, sorry...

We are hampering ourselves only buy "Young players with resalable value" It is turn us in to "Feeder Club" and when a young player reaches a certain level in step the big money clubs to buy them up. (Something that I believe FSG are actively promoting)...

I believe that come 2017/18 season Coutinho and maybe even Mane will have the "Big" European Club really sniffing around and FSG will be only to willing to sell, and it will really dawn on Jürgen Klopp that FSG are not trying to build a dynasty with LFC, by are rather using the club as a Cash Breeding Sow lead to Klopp’s departure soon afterwards, which should concern us all

If you are a "top" player why do you need to switch teams? Because most "top" players I can think of are already on teams that provide them the chance for success?


Messi
Suarez
Ronaldo
Mueller
Robben
Lewandoski
Bale
Griezmann
Higuain
Vidal
Ozil

Look the way I look at it is this, Klopp must be happy with the work he is doing and the peramitors he works within, he's one of the most saughtafter managers in the game, he could pretty much get any job in world football yet he chose to come here and build something, and even if we think FSG lied to him in initial talks and are tying his hands then why did he sign a new six year contract?

Maybe those who think FSG are doing that and are holding us back should focus on Jürgen with the same thoughts as he states constantly this is how he works, there's no way a manager so highly thought of in the game would stand for it if he was t happy with the setup.

Could Klopp be a victim of his own hype?...."But give me 11 players and we will be competitive"

If you are a "top" player why do you need to switch teams? Because most "top" players I can think of are already on teams that provide them the chance for success?


Messi
Suarez
Ronaldo
Mueller
Robben
Lewandoski
Bale
Griezmann
Higuain
Vidal
Ozil

Ozil ... He is look to move and so is Griezmann, both to clubs with a better prospect of Titles Cups and CL football

Could Klopp be a victim of his own hype?...."But give me 11 players and we will be competitive"

Better believe it apparently we are joint second in the league!

Could Klopp be a victim of his own hype?...."But give me 11 players and we will be competitive"

He won league's with Dortmund,  got them to a CL final

In his first full season here and we are in the title race, semi of a domestic cup

Even if his half season last season with a squad he had no influence with he took those players to two cup finals

I'd say he's fairly adept at making teams competitive   

Better believe it apparently we are joint second in the league!

And got us to 2 finals in his 1st season, I like his hype. .

Ozil ... He is look to move and so is Griezmann, both to clubs with a better prospect of Titles Cups and CL football

Way to nitpick two out of the list, guess you don't care about the overarching point that almost all top players are not going to switch teams to have a "better" chance at winning things. And I've not seen anywhere that Ozil is looking to move. Griezmann maybe but I see he's still with his club as well. You believe what you want, but we aren't going to sign any "top" players under Klopp.

Point being Red most of those players are where they want to be, on Great money and are already winning titles thorpies etc, and the two that I have mention are looking for great money and more titles and thorpies... we may sign a player that is on the up, but how likely are we to hold on to them?..

Klopp may have won things with Dortmund, but the Germany League and Clubs are set up differently, taking nothing away from Jürgen,It is a bit easier to do, Money does not rule to the extent it does in the Premiere League...

Also being competitive and dominating the League are long ways apart... We (LFC) are competitive, Title winners (Dominators) we are not

Also being competitive and dominating the League are long ways apart

I don't think your ever going to see a run of league winning sides like what we and the mancs did ever again; the league/money has changed and going forward those top 6 teams are going to battle every season for the title.