Klopp or the players?

Unfortunately the way things are going...its only a matter of time before some supporters turn on the players again.
If i look back to August, many claimed we were going to finish around 6th since we didnt sign a recognised LB.
In December we had a team of world beaters and a messiah in JK who seemingly could turn average Joe's into stars.
Now after a very poor run of games in January, we are coming close to full circle for those supporters who "predicted" our demise at the start.

The reality is we have started well and we actually had/have an opportunity to build on the good start through getting some consistency in our results.
Every team has bad patches, injuries etc...however we have to also consider that we are aiming high and therefore have to benchmark against those we are competing against for the top prize. if we do this, then there is no doubt that we are a fair way short of the kind of quality squads that our main rivals have.

I trust that JK is planning on putting his print on this squad in the summer by clearing out and bringing in a few more faces, but i cant help but feel he is missing a trick here by forcing his and the owners hands and making a purchase of perhaps one or two quality additions, even if it means paying a premium. This could prove a pivotal period and if we dont get our consistency back, we could have a challenge to stay in the top 4.
 
There's still time and it can all turn around again, however the probability of success would be greatly increased should we bring in a few quality additions in the coming days.

Bravo.

You have managed to contradict yourself and again display your overbearing sense of entitlement which is completely void of any reasoning and rationale.

Explain?

Unfortunately the way things are going...its only a matter of time before some supporters turn on the players again.
If i look back to August, many claimed we were going to finish around 6th since we didnt sign a recognised LB.
In December we had a team of world beaters and a messiah in JK who seemingly could turn average Joe's into stars.
Now after a very poor run of games in January, we are coming close to full circle for those supporters who "predicted" our demise at the start.

The reality is we have started well and we actually had/have an opportunity to build on the good start through getting some consistency in our results.
Every team has bad patches, injuries etc...however we have to also consider that we are aiming high and therefore have to benchmark against those we are competing against for the top prize. if we do this, then there is no doubt that we are a fair way short of the kind of quality squads that our main rivals have.

I trust that JK is planning on putting his print on this squad in the summer by clearing out and bringing in a few more faces, but i cant help but feel he is missing a trick here by forcing his and the owners hands and making a purchase of perhaps one or two quality additions, even if it means paying a premium. This could prove a pivotal period and if we dont get our consistency back, we could have a challenge to stay in the top 4.
 
There's still time and it can all turn around again, however the probability of success would be greatly increased should we bring in a few quality additions in the coming days.

Good post mate but on the bits I've bolded, if we were so good prior to our injuries and consequent loss of form, don't you think we can get that back once everyone's available again?

Course we've missed them and naturally our form has suffered because of it, as would any team, but I don't get this all forlorn, woe is us, we aren't good enough with what we've got stuff when earlier in the season we were.

Of course Jürgen is making plans to improve us, sure he'll have another clearout from the squad and Academy this summer.  I'll be doing a similar thread as February last year, once the window is closed, to discuss our potential outs and the reasoning behind it.

Fans are fickle, it's amazing how many players become better when they don't play.  Whilst in the team and featuring regularly they're pish and need replacing, soon as they've been unavailable for a few weeks because of injury we miss their qualities badly and need them back asap because they offer more than those playing.

We needed a LB last summer, nobody wanted Milner playing there, how ridiculous was that idea and nobody thinks he's a good enough cm and criticised Brendan for bringing him in and promising him he'd play there, and heaven forbid if Moreno starts, that's like an absolute no, no!  Yet because we've missed having Lallana in midfield and Can has been playing there suddenly people are advocating playing Moreno at LB so Milner can go back into CM.

Anyway, I've rambled too much and probably gone way off topic because a lot of them are merging into the same conversations.

Klopp's signings rated out of 10:

Karius - 6
Matip - 9
Klavan - 6.5
Grujic - n/a
Wijnaldum - 6
Mane - 8.5

The biggest disappointment for me has been Wijnaldum, and that's a lot to do with the fact he cost £25m

your over stretching with them scores

Karius - 4  He has been poor, doesnt make saves and has had some noticeable blunders
Matip - 6  He has looked half decent at times, but is still part of the shocking defense we have
Klavan - 4 He looks out of his depth, well to slow, poor anticipation, looks nervous all the time
Grujic - 3 Has been injured, but the times he has played he has done nothing of note
Wijnaldum -  7   Bags of energy, keeps things moving and looks fairly tidy, although doesnt seem to have any form of X factor
Mane - 8 Has come in and looked the part, just needs to work on his passing

A quick fix is the next Andy Carroll. Is that what we want?

The 'quick fix' in question was instigated by the FSG appointment that was Comolli and has been used F**k knows how many times to intimate the error of perceived panic buys; this cautionary tale as you illustrate discourages lashing out dosh on what might or might not be the answer to the team's shortcomings.

Are we light atm, probably yes, but in fairness the only sides so far looking for quick fixes are the ones facing the drop.  And because they're quick fixes, they come at a premium. Klopp isn't Rafa, he doesn't demand 30 million quid every transfer window on tap to spot the next Kyrgiakos and Ngog, and throw a strop in private and public when he doesn't get it. He prefers to get the best out of existing resources, and will only shell out when he feels it's value for money.

Your analogy is untenable

your over stretching with them scores

Wijnaldum -  7   Bags of energy, keeps things moving and looks fairly tidy, although doesnt seem to have any form of X factor

What an excellent assessment, exactly the way I see him

your over stretching with them scores

Karius - 4  He has been poor, doesnt make saves and has had some noticeable blunders
Matip - 6  He has looked half decent at times, but is still part of the shocking defense we have
Klavan - 4 He looks out of his depth, well to slow, poor anticipation, looks nervous all the time
Grujic - 3 Has been injured, but the times he has played he has done nothing of note
Wijnaldum -  7   Bags of energy, keeps things moving and looks fairly tidy, although doesnt seem to have any form of X factor
Mane - 8 Has come in and looked the part, just needs to work on his passing

Wijnaldum a better signing than Matip?

 

Wijnaldum a better signing than Matip?

 

so far - yep

Matip is still part of a defense that cant defend

Wiji has been fairly solid and contributed positivly more

so far - yep

Matip is still part of a defense that cant defend

Wiji has been fairly solid and contributed positivly more

Can't defend?

The league average is 1.43 goals conceded per match...we concede 1.23 gpm

We are in the top 7 for goals conceded and 1st in goals scored....our goals allowed is in part a function of how we play as a team then the back 4 itself.

so far - yep

Matip is still part of a defense that cant defend

Wiji has been fairly solid and contributed positivly more

Really?

He's played in 14 games all comps this season
We've won 10 drew 4 of those and conceded 11 goals in those 14 games

He missed the Burnley and Bournemouth games plus the Arsenal one where we conceded 3

 

Really?

He's played in 14 games all comps this season
We've won 10 drew 4 of those and conceded 11 goals in those 14 games

He missed the Burnley and Bournemouth games plus the Arsenal one where we conceded 3

 

Exactly

I believe that given the right financially backing,without the "Re-salable" restriction garbage that Klopp could make us a top four player again, and bring the title back to Anfield... In Real Life,In This League, Against The Likes of Spur,Chelsea,City Arsenal and Man Utd...No Way unless something drastically changes(FSG sells up) Best we can honestly hope for is CL football and maybe something there, but forget about the Premier League, It;s just the way it will be   

I believe that given the right financially backing,without the "Re-salable" restriction garbage that Klopp could make us a top four player again, and bring the title back to Anfield... In Real Life,In This League, Against The Likes of Spur,Chelsea,City Arsenal and Man Utd...No Way unless something drastically changes(FSG sells up) Best we can honestly hope for is CL football and maybe something there, but forget about the Premier League, It;s just the way it will be   

Then again, Klopp did win the title twice on a shoestring whilst locking horns with Bayern Munich. Not saying the German league is as tricky to navigate as the Premier league, but there's reason for optimism.

Then again, Klopp did win the title twice on a shoestring whilst locking horns with Bayern Munich. Not saying the German league is as tricky to navigate as the Premier league, but there's reason for optimism.

I certainly don't agree with Trdr

However what you mention in Germany is one club... Over here there's five to beat

It's a different beast which is why I think ultimately Jürgen will have to change his thoughts in how he does it, I don't think you can do it by developing only over here like he could in Germany

Jürgen Klopp reveals ‘long’ clear-the-air meeting with Liverpool players

• Manager held inquest the day after losing against Swansea at Anfield
• German admits his players are not enjoying the job they have to do

Paul Wilson
@paulwilsongnm

Monday 23 January 2017 22.29 GMT

Jürgen Klopp has admitted he is not happy with Liverpool’s past few results in the Premier League and revealed he held a “long” meeting with his players the day after the 3-2 defeat by Swansea City.

Klopp also suggested the players were not enjoying themselves at the moment.  “We had a very intense period around Christmas and new year,” the Liverpool manager said.  “Fair enough, so did everybody else, but before the Swansea game I actually thought we were back on the right track, with the freshness coming back.  But what I spoke most about was enjoying what we do.

“We are Liverpool, a really good football-playing side, and we don’t enjoy the job we have to do.  It is not as though we are a team at the bottom of the league that has to defend 80% or 90% of the time.  In most of our games we are dominant, so we have to enjoy this, even when we don’t come through after five minutes.”

He also said their recent defensive record was discussed at the meeting.  “We scored two goals, enough to win the game, but I felt the defending could be improved.  I also think the goals we have conceded in 2017 have been a little bit of the same story.  The influence of throw-ins is a bit too big, for instance, so we spoke about that.”

Liverpool have won just one of their six games since beating Manchester City on New Year’s Eve, and that was with the help of a replay against Plymouth Argyle of League Two in the FA Cup.  They were defeated by their next opponents, Southampton, in the first leg of the EFL Cup, though Klopp believes a one-goal deficit should not be too much to overcome in the return at Anfield on Wednesday.  “For us, 1-0 is no different to 0-0, there is still all to play for, everything is still possible.  If it had been 3-0 to Southampton after the first leg we would have had to think about a few things.”

Therein lies the rub, because most observers felt Liverpool were lucky to escape St Mary’s with a single-goal defeat.  Southampton certainly made enough clear chances to win the game 3-0, and Klopp is aware his defence is being breached too easily.

He denies Liverpool’s slump in form has anything to do with the absence of Joël Matip – “we are a big club, it is not allowed to say you miss one player” – and feels in any case that his side needs to defend better as a team.  “Sometimes there’s a single mistake, but most of the time it is seven or eight players who could have done something differently.  That’s how we understand it.

“It’s not about one player.  We really have to do better as a defensive unit.  That was one of the things we discussed in our long meeting after the Swansea game, and I think we are all ready for the rest of the season now.  The feeling around the club is not quite as positive as it was, and it’s our job to bring that positivity back.”

Liverpool could be through to a Wembley final by Wednesday night, and after reaching the final of the same competition last year Klopp would like to go one better and win it.  “A semi-final is a big game for us.  We have to concentrate on Southampton, then see who is available for Wolves at the weekend before we can turn our attention to Chelsea,” he said.

Klopp is becoming used to fixture overload by now, though while it is clearly not ideal to have a showdown with the league leaders as a third game in six days, he reserved most of his scorn for the early kick-off in the FA Cup on Saturday.  “We want to take our EFL semi-final seriously, as well as the FA Cup, but it is clear not everyone feels the same.  We have an important semi-final on Wednesday night so they have given us a 12.30pm kick-off on Saturday.”

Klopp has confirmed that Jordan Henderson is still feeling discomfort from a heel injury, though says it is not the same complaint that sidelined him for three months last season and believes the situation can be managed.  Henderson is expected to play against Southampton in the EFL Cup, though his manager explained he might have to grit his teeth.

“It is similar to last season but different,” he said.  “We know a lot more about how to treat the problem now, and at this stage of the season we are not doing much training between games in any case.  If the other lads are running, Hendo will be on the bike.  He feels it a little bit when he plays but he can cope with it.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jan/23/Jürgen-klopp-liverpool-southampton-efl-cup

Then again, Klopp did win the title twice on a shoestring whilst locking horns with Bayern Munich. Not saying the German league is as tricky to navigate as the Premier league, but there's reason for optimism.

In The German League (Bundesliga) the Club are mainly fan owned and there for do not have the Money to throw around like The Premier League especially with the B.T/ and Sky money added to the mix, Club like Man Utd,City and Chelsea, and should they want to Arsenal and Tottenham can pay huge amounts for players and have no restriction on Age... What I am saying is that It will be near impossible to replicate what Klopp did at Dortmund here, in the Premier League with FSG in charge... If not already, I think that this is slowly dawning on Klopp

so far - yep

Matip is still part of a defense that cant defend

Wiji has been fairly solid and contributed positivly more

What you're  doing is comparing Matip as part of a defence to Wijnaldum on his own and thats where the problem begins.

Wijnaldum features as part of a dysfunction midfield...contributing to 0.

A quick fix is the next Andy Carroll. Is that what we want?

Are we light atm, probably yes, but in fairness the only sides so far looking for quick fixes are the ones facing the drop.  And because they're quick fixes, they come at a premium. Klopp isn't Rafa, he doesn't demand 30 million quid every transfer window on tap to spot the next Kyrgiakos and Ngog, and throw a strop in private and public when he doesn't get it. He prefers to get the best out of existing resources, and will only shell out when he feels it's value for money.

Did Rafa Benitez piss in your milk or something?

Really?

He's played in 14 games all comps this season
We've won 10 drew 4 of those and conceded 11 goals in those 14 games

He missed the Burnley and Bournemouth games plus the Arsenal one where we conceded 3

 

this is not an attempt at slating Matip - but he has been part of the defense that has let in goals for fun.

highlighting that he has been part of a defense that has conceded 11 goals in 14 games is no highlight to me

so although he has come in and looks less error prone to others and has an air of coolness around him - it does not negate that our defense is dodge

this is not an attempt at slating Matip - but he has been part of the defense that has let in goals for fun.

highlighting that he has been part of a defense that has conceded 11 goals in 14 games is no highlight to me

so although he has come in and looks less error prone to others and has an air of coolness around him - it does not negate that our defense is dodge

But we haven't lost a game with Matip in the team 

this is not an attempt at slating Matip - but he has been part of the defense that has let in goals for fun.

highlighting that he has been part of a defense that has conceded 11 goals in 14 games is no highlight to me

so although he has come in and looks less error prone to others and has an air of coolness around him - it does not negate that our defense is dodge

Ha ha the state of that!

this is not an attempt at slating Matip - but he has been part of the defense that has let in goals for fun.

highlighting that he has been part of a defense that has conceded 11 goals in 14 games is no highlight to me

so although he has come in and looks less error prone to others and has an air of coolness around him - it does not negate that our defense is dodge

I think folk are specifically talking about his own personal performances mate. Yes he's been a part of a leaky defence, but without checking the actual numbers, I think we concede less when he's in the team and therefore are a tighter unit.

I think folk are specifically talking about his own personal performances mate. Yes he's been a part of a leaky defence, but without checking the actual numbers, I think we concede less when he's in the team and therefore are a tighter unit.

The numbers are there mate

When he's played we haven't lost and have only conceded 11 in 14 games

It's like saying that Luis Suarez has scored 25 goals in a season but his strike partner only has 4 so therefore he's part of a misfiring forward line
Yet they've won every game