Klopp or the players?

If these are the players Klopp wants, then I guess the answer is it's the players fault. If these aren't the players Klopp really wants, then I suppose it's his fault for not buying the players he needs to win games.

But we haven't lost a game with Matip in the team 

 

I personally blame the players, for now.

We look like we've run out of ideas at the minute and we've certainly forgot how to defend whilst Matip was out.

Klavan isn't good enough and neither is Lovren. Lovren gets away with it more because Matip makes the rest of our back 4 look decent.

Our midfield of Henderson, Can and Wijnaldum is average at best. Show all the stats in the world about Henderson but since that goal at Chelsea what do you remember him doing? Can still makes poor decisions in the final third and I'm still not sure what Wijnaldum offers.

I was also going to write about us lacking a recognised striker but we have two in Origi and Sturridge, both of whom have gone totally off the boil in recent weeks.

That said, if we are heading into next season with the same midfield, the same centre back pairing and the same goalkeeper then the fingers need to start getting pointed at Klopp.

He is still the right man to lead Liverpool for many years and anyone who thinks of sacking him is an idiot but no one is exempt from criticism.

Let's just hope he hasn't ran out of ideas now teams have figured out that we can't just run them into submission.

He is still the right man to lead Liverpool for many years and anyone who thinks of sacking him is an idiot but no one is exempt from criticism.

Let's just hope he hasn't ran out of ideas now teams have figured out that we can't just run them into submission.

The first one is obviously a massive knee jerk and whoever these people are that think that way...they need to calm down.
Secondly, there are so many people saying teams have figured us out...it makes no sense, especially since we havent run much at all over the last month and also coz if u have quality play, regardless if the opposition know your plan, they wouldnt be able to stop it anyways.

We are going through a bad patch of form and results. Our players have the quality to make better decisions and execute much better than what they are showing. Im still of the opinion that JK needs to freshen the team up a little by introducing players like Ojo and Woodburn who have a bit more freedom in their play. You could see it in TAA, while he had a few poor moments defensively, he was still eager and willing to run down the flank and be an outlet. Our seniors in Henderson, Lallana, Firmino and Sturridge were largely ineffective and went hiding at times when they needed to step up.

Im still of the opinion that JK needs to freshen the team up a little by introducing players like Ojo and Woodburn who have a bit more freedom in their play. You could see it in TAA, while he had a few poor moments defensively, he was still eager and willing to run down the flank and be an outlet. Our seniors in Henderson, Lallana, Firmino and Sturridge were largely ineffective and went hiding at times when they needed to step up.

Sorry mate but what are you on about here? "More freedom in their play" is just a commentary cliche, what does it mean? Do you mean Klopp would allow a youngster more freedom than he would to a senior player?! Do you not think Klopp sends the team out with specific instructions?

The solution to our current bad patch is not play more youngsters, the same one's that couldn't put a goal past league two Plymouth. Do you really think Woodburn and Ojo would of been more effective against Southampton and Swansea than Sturridge and Firmino? It's nonsense.

Ever since Mignolet and Karius started to show a bit of form everyone else has gone to sh*t.  Not one player has stood out in that time, we look clueless in every aspect of the game, except goalkeeper funnily enough.  Its been a torture watching us slowly pass the ball in front of every defending team with no idea how to break them down.  Defensively we are a joke and have been for a long time.  That is easy to overlook when we were scoring goals for fun at the start of the season, but now it is a massive problem.

Something has to change before our season unravels drastically.  Still can't believe how much we have struggled against sh*te like Swansea, Southampton, Plymouth and Sunderland!  Win our next two games and F**k the month of January right off please.

Sorry mate but what are you on about here? "More freedom in their play" is just a commentary cliche, what does it mean? Do you mean Klopp would allow a youngster more freedom than he would to a senior player?! Do you not think Klopp sends the team out with specific instructions?

The solution to our current bad patch is not play more youngsters, the same one's that couldn't put a goal past league two Plymouth. Do you really think Woodburn and Ojo would of been more effective against Southampton and Swansea than Sturridge and Firmino? It's nonsense.

If you think that its Klopp who determines who shoots, passes, runs or does whatever at certain times of a football match then i cant help you. I stick by what i think, and that is that a player like Ojo or even Woodburn would have the "freedom of mind" to try to go past somebody instead of simply doing the same or safe option. They have a lot more to prove and you cant put a price on desire. Its been done everywhere... Spurs took a chance on a young Alli, Utd took a chance on Rashford and Lingaard, Arsenal have used Iwobi etc.
When the same thing isnt working, it doesnt hurt having a go with hungry talented youngsters.

If you think that its Klopp who determines who shoots, passes, runs or does whatever at certain times of a football match then i cant help you.

Sorry but if you think Klopp, Buvac and Krawietz don't spend all week before a match going over what runs to make, which players to target with their runs, when to make certain runs, when to pass long, when to pass short, when to press, which passes to look for and when to pass and shoot then I can't help you either. What do you think managers and assistant managers do? Do you think it takes 3 people to pick a starting XI and the rest is up to the players?

I stick by what i think, and that is that a player like Ojo or even Woodburn would have the "freedom of mind" to try to go past somebody instead of simply doing the same or safe option. They have a lot more to prove and you cant put a price on desire.

"Freedom of mind" I've heard it all, you should get a job on BT sport alongside Michael Owen.

Do you think once a player reaches 26 they become restricted in their runs and desire to go past people? Sorry mate but you're talking out of your arse. Throwing youngsters into a team that is struggling for form will do nothing but damage their development unless they instantly start banging in goals, which they won't because they're not ready to play.
If they were ready to play...Klopp would be playing them.

Has any Liverpool team collapsed like this? I recall a sh*te November around 95 96 that probably cost us a title that season but to go out of 2 cups and a title race in 1 week!!!

Has any Liverpool team collapsed like this? I recall a sh*te November around 95 96 that probably cost us a title that season but to go out of 2 cups and a title race in 1 week!!!

I think it used to be known as 'Black November' for us, now it's Black January.

In answer to the OP, a bit of both.
I think Klopp is a great coach and a manager, but his in-game response tends to be very lethargic.
There are some huge holes in the squad too though - LB, CB, DM, CF, LWF
We have a good starting 11, but are screwed with cover. We were always going to struggle around this time of year. The difference with the other title contenders is they don't have to rely 100% on youth to plug gaps, they have other game changers that can come to the fore when regular match winners are having off days and getting match fit post injuries.

I thought we'd struggle with squad weakness as the season progressed, but I'd be lying if I thought the wheels were going to come off to quite the extent they have. Some of our problems have probably been if not self inflicted certainly self left open to, but for now we've got to regroup and get back to basics.

It starts on Tuesday, and in all honesty we're probably in a situation where a boring 0-0 won't be a bad result for us. Chelsea won't come out and go for it as they don't desperately need the win, and if I were Jürgen I'd pick a solid team, defend properly and see how it all pans out. For now we have to start avoiding getting beat every match, a clean sheet is step one.

I thought we'd struggle with squad weakness as the season progressed, but I'd be lying if I thought the wheels were going to come off to quite the extent they have. Some of our problems have probably been if not self inflicted certainly self left open to, but for now we've got to regroup and get back to basics.

It starts on Tuesday, and in all honesty we're probably in a situation where a boring 0-0 won't be a bad result for us. Chelsea won't come out and go for it as they don't desperately need the win, and if I were Jürgen I'd pick a solid team, defend properly and see how it all pans out. For now we have to start avoiding getting beat every match, a clean sheet is step one.

It wouldn't surprise me to see us win that - we'll predictably raise our game for the first time since the munts.

Back to the OP. It's definitely Klopp.

When you're struggling for a win like that you don't go out and mash a disrespectful team together, only for your opponents' balls to grow two fold.

No matter the oppo, in that time of need you have to dig out, and find a win to get the confidence back up.

He shot us in the foot again and we've gone backwards.

Never want to see this sh*t from him again, he's got to learn from it - and fast.

For now we have to start avoiding getting beat every match, a clean sheet is step one.

How to beat Liverpool at Anfield. Sit deep, park the bus and hit them on the break.

That has been very consistent in the past few games. Good news is the only ONE problem to fix is to open these teams up.

How to beat Liverpool at Anfield. Sit deep, park the bus and hit them on the break.

That has been very consistent in the past few games. Good news is the only ONE problem to fix is to open these teams up.

So were there no teams that parked the bus during our run of form? It seems like there probably were. I just find it terribly hard to believe that all of the sudden these players are crap, the manager is out of ideas, the owners won't spend....it's the same old tired excuses that get trotted out whenever we have a slump. The last time it happened it got us a new manager...now we have the manager we all wanted and everyone's questioning him even though he's got the team he wanted (he's had time to change it) and has said himself, that he's supported financially however he sees fit to spend. Maybe it's more complicated than just blaming one spoke of the wheel (whether you choose the players, manager or owners). Maybe it's just a confluence of things that is causing us issues and we'll get it righted sooner than later and be off again. That's what I'd like to think anyway.

Maybe Klopp should go back to his favoured narrow 4 2 3 1 formation now as he can still do the gegen press as the 4 3 3 has now ran it's course. We Deffo  need to be more defencive and using Cans strength and not his ball playing ability to our advantage. It should also give us more option from the bench. I'd also start playing karius from the the off and just suck it up considering he was purchased to be our no 1. Play the narrow 3 behind the striker with Origi up top.

                       Karius
Clyne      Matip    Lovren    Milner
                  Hendo     Can
       Mane     Coutinho    lallana
                         Origi
  Is it Klopp or the players I'd have to say it's Klopp as the players follow klopps instructions. Playing the 4 2 3 1 gives us more suited options from the bench. Bringing Origi on as a winger doesn't work, playing Wijnaldum as a center mid doesn't work, plating can as a box to box cm doesn't work also milner at left back has run its course as he looks knackered and starting to show his distaste for the position vocally. Firmino can play in any one if the 3 positions behind the striker, so can Wijnaldum and so can mane. Coutinho is a number 10 plain and simple. Playing firmino as a winger doesn't work so we're  playing players out of position IMO. let's start playing to our strengths.

Maybe Klopp should go back to his favoured narrow 4 2 3 1 formation now as he can still do the gegen press as the 4 3 3 has now ran it's course. We Deffo  need to be more defencive and using Cans strength and not his ball playing ability to our advantage. It should also give us more option from the bench. I'd also start playing karius from the the off and just suck it up considering he was purchased to be our no 1. Play the narrow 3 behind the striker with Origi up top.

                       Karius
Clyne      Matip    Lovren    Milner
                  Hendo     Can
       Mane     Coutinho    lallana
                         Origi
  Is it Klopp or the players I'd have to say it's Klopp as the players follow klopps instructions. Playing the 4 2 3 1 gives us more suited options from the bench. Bringing Origi on as a winger doesn't work, playing Wijnaldum as a center mid doesn't work, plating can as a box to box cm doesn't work also milner at left back has run its course as he looks knackered and starting to show his distaste for the position vocally. Firmino can play in any one if the 3 positions behind the striker, so can Wijnaldum and so can mane. Coutinho is a number 10 plain and simple. Playing firmino as a winger doesn't work so we're  playing players out of position IMO. let's start playing to our strengths.

I like your idea of the formation change but I would still prefer Gini over Can in CM for his mobility alone.

I would also opt for Bobby ahead of Origi up top as he is most effective in this position and links much better with Cou over Origi.

I like your idea of the formation change but I would still prefer Gini over Can in CM for his mobility alone.

I would also opt for Bobby ahead of Origi up top as he is most effective in this position and links much better with Cou over Origi.

Is Wijnaldum defencive enough though? I think that when sides play 2 in midfield the one player is the battler (so to speak) and the other player would the one to get forward maybe I don't see Hendo as an out and out DM that would Gini as the defensive one and I just don't see him as a breaking up the play sort of player. The reason I put Origi up top is our much needed height up top plus his pace. I think Bobby could play there but I think he's used to dropping off deeper and picking up the ball or the false 9 role rather an central striker.

Firminho should be just behind a proper CF not sure if on current form of Sturridge and Origi that counts but that surely should be where him or coutinho should be next season