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      Klopp or the players?

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      heimdall
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      Re: klopp or the players?
      Reply #23: Jan 21, 2017 04:30:39 pm
      The reality I think in football is that the difference between great performances and poor ones is never quite as much as it appears. It can be passing delivered a fraction of a second earlier with perhaps one less touch, more fizz on it as you're confident the receiver will control it, a more penetrating runner as he's confident he'll be seen etc. We haven't gone from being a good side to a bad one overnight, but it's vital that we rediscover our mojo and soon because if we don't, the season could be over in 3/4 weeks. 

      I agree with this but when you have an off day with one tactic then you must have a plan B, a good example is Man Utd who very effectively  switched to long ball against us. Klopp has to become more flexible and teach the players how to convert chances better.
      Brian78
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      Re: klopp or the players?
      Reply #24: Jan 21, 2017 04:31:46 pm
      What?

      How can it be one?

      It's clearly both. Just like it has clearly been both for the last 95% of the season when we've been playing very well.





      Well previous problems were put at the door of one so just seeing whose door people are putting the current mediocrity at
      ruthcity
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      Re: klopp or the players?
      Reply #25: Jan 21, 2017 04:33:07 pm
      Thankfully well never be a nothing club. 

      That club is just across where we are. Off topic still I've got to say it!
      heimdall
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      Re: klopp or the players?
      Reply #26: Jan 21, 2017 04:33:45 pm
      Knee jerk thread if ever I've seen one.

      Anybody would think we've been sh*te all season and aren't in a position to get top four.

      Fickle as f**k. A few bad weeks at the office and everyone is completely on one as if we are f**king doomed.

      God help us when we go out of all of the cups and aren't anywhere near the top 4.

      Which hasn't happened yet by the way.

      We have been shot the whole month, how is it knee jersey and if we don't improve immediately then we will be out of all cups and competitions  by Feb
      billythered
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      Re: klopp or the players?
      Reply #27: Jan 21, 2017 04:35:14 pm
      We're just a sh*t, nothing club with no future.  No point having players or a manager.

      Just get shut of them all.

      Loving your sarcasm Debs!

      For me its the players, they are simply not playing to their full potential, you can't tell me the likes of Can, Henderson, Lovren, Gini, Clyne,Milner, more recently Firmino etc have been on their collective games,
      They are given specific instructions that are simply not carried out, from, crossing,  passing, running into space, in particular the defensive unit has been terrible at times,
      It's funny how after a defeat like today's always brings out the analysts amongst us,
      I think the phrase 'must do better' is a bit of a understatement,
      The players if they haven't already are in for some Herr dryer Klopp treatment, hope they got their tin hats on!

      YNWA
      paulow63
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      Re: klopp or the players?
      Reply #28: Jan 21, 2017 04:48:09 pm
      There's actually 3 elements, Manager. Players and a crowd, don't think our crowd won any atmosphere prizes once again today either.
      Brian78
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      Re: klopp or the players?
      Reply #29: Jan 21, 2017 04:52:05 pm
      Knee jerk thread if ever I've seen one.

      Anybody would think we've been sh*te all season and aren't in a position to get top four.

      Fickle as f**k. A few bad weeks at the office and everyone is completely on one as if we are f**king doomed.

      God help us when we go out of all of the cups and aren't anywhere near the top 4.

      Which hasn't happened yet by the way.

      Knee jerk? Asking whose at fault for not beating Swansea Sunderland Plymouth and Southampton then scraping over Plymouth with dire performances.

      Why are those performance acceptable, because we were great in November?
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: klopp or the players?
      Reply #30: Jan 21, 2017 04:58:28 pm
      I blame Mane for ditching us for AFCON and Cameroon and Fifa for F***ing around with us... oh, and Sakho (2nd best defender behind Matip) for being a dick in pre season and pissing Klopp off.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: klopp or the players?
      Reply #31: Jan 21, 2017 05:00:27 pm
      Klopp buys and builds a formation around a player knowing full well he'd lose him in January and doesn't buy sufficient cover and now we're paying the price. I'm all for neutral spend but let's do it when we have a strong squad, eh?
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: klopp or the players?
      Reply #32: Jan 21, 2017 05:00:28 pm
      Knee jerk? Asking whose at fault for not beating Swansea Sunderland Plymouth and Southampton then scraping over Plymouth with dire performances.

      Why are those performance acceptable, because we were great in November?

      It's knee jerk because of where we are.

      It's as if we've had a massive fall from grace.

      We've fell all of the way from 2nd to 3rd mate and are still in both cups.

      I'm more concerned about why we aren't active in the transfer market while trying to get rid of Lucas and Sakho out of a thread bare squad that's seen Kevin Stewart get a new contract.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: klopp or the players?
      Reply #33: Jan 21, 2017 05:03:40 pm
      Buy buy buy who ?
      shabbadoo
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      Re: klopp or the players?
      Reply #34: Jan 21, 2017 05:08:02 pm
      Rodgers, he bought them ;D
      heimdall
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      Re: klopp or the players?
      Reply #35: Jan 21, 2017 05:09:19 pm
      It's knee jerk because of where we are.

      It's as if we've had a massive fall from grace.

      We've fell all of the way from 2nd to 3rd mate and are still in both cups.

      I'm more concerned about why we aren't active in the transfer market while trying to get rid of Lucas and Sakho out of a thread bare squad that's seen Kevin Stewart get a new contract.

      If citeh and Arsenal win we'll be 5th,is that still OK? If there were signs of our form improving then fair enough but the goals and domination of early season has vanished of late. I said that we needed a big win today but somehow we lost to a team who Arsenal battered 5-0 the week before.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: klopp or the players?
      Reply #36: Jan 21, 2017 05:11:39 pm
      I once defended Brendan Rodgers on here after a bad result. When most were knifing away at him I said the players let him down. Once they cross the line its up to them to perform.

      Most replies stated that he picked the players and they played as he instructed ( tactically not bad on purpose).

      So now I ask who is to blame for our terrible form this month? Players or klopp? Players letting manager down or he picks the team and tactics?

      Answer is a choice of 2 don't hide your answer by introducing owners, directors  kitmam, coach driver or the building company that threw up the new stand!!

      Results have been poor but I don't think performances have dropped nearly as far as it's being suggested Bri.

      Plymouth, home and away was the kids basically. We can't use that as an accurate comparison to the form of the full first team for the previous half of the season. So in the sense I'd cross them off your list.

      Today I can buy the attack on the defence, they deserve all the stick that's heading their way it was a shambles. The worst I've seen us defend all season and while Klavan takes the brunt of the blame Clyne and Lovren shouldn't be rushing off so quick and should shoulder plenty of it too. Not nearly good enough that and when you ask Klopp or players in this section then I hang it on the players for this performance at the back. It wasn't tactical that makes you completely misjudge things as they did, it was individual errors on top of individual errors that just compounded how poor each of them were.

      United, I thought United were very lucky to come away with a draw, we created plenty in that game and if you listen to Jürgen's presser afterwards he explains it perfectly. They were reduced to hoofball with bogbrush up top and that for me says it all.

      Southampton is the one performance that I thought deserved criticism and Jürgen has also accepted it. This is the low point and maybe all the games over christmas/new year caught up with on this one. I'm not making excuses because that wasn't good enough but when we think that's one game out of how many, then I can accept the occasional blip, especially in our first full season under Jürgen.

      So Jürgen or players, well personally I think there's a huge over-reaction to us playing still pretty damn well in attack. Today we could have had 4 or 5 in the first half with 8 or 9 decent chances. We still scored 2 and had quite a few more chances in the second half. We're still top scorers in the league and we're still creating more chances than anyone else. That's where I don't buy the criticism at all, in attack it's not justified, in midfield I think the loss of Mane has actually disrupted this the most. Losing Lallana from the 3 has meant that we've got too many players doing similar roles and they're not complimentary at all. Can is looking a little out of his depth if truth be told, despite the odd good performance and I can see this being addressed soon enough.

      Defence, well today go for gold, rip into them because they deserve all the get. Overall though we've been keeping clean sheets with increasing regularity and to me, apart from set-pieces, we've been getting better with today being the exception. So for me it's more a player issue than a manager.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: klopp or the players?
      Reply #37: Jan 21, 2017 05:12:13 pm
      It's the same thing that has been a problem for a number of years now; too many individual errors leading to us conceding incredibly sloppy goals.

      We were starting to cut them out a bit but for some reason, we seem to have gotten it into our heads that we need Mane to win.
      reddebs
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      Re: klopp or the players?
      Reply #38: Jan 21, 2017 05:12:40 pm
      If citeh and Arsenal win we'll be 5th,is that still OK? If there were signs of our form improving then fair enough but the goals and domination of early season has vanished of late. I said that we needed a big win today but somehow we lost to a team who Arsenal battered 5-0 the week before.

      Only if City score 10.  The worst we end the weekend is 4th, the best is 3rd.
      Brian78
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      Re: klopp or the players?
      Reply #39: Jan 21, 2017 05:12:57 pm
      It's knee jerk because of where we are.

      It's as if we've had a massive fall from grace.

      We've fell all of the way from 2nd to 3rd mate and are still in both cups.

      I'm more concerned about why we aren't active in the transfer market while trying to get rid of Lucas and Sakho out of a thread bare squad that's seen Kevin Stewart get a new contract.

      Knee jerk for me is people reactng after a bad performance team wise or individually. People taking a group of say 10 games were 7 have been bad and asking what's going on here or are the players under performing or the managers tactics gone stale isn't knee jerk it's concern and throw in the position we were in its also bitter disappointment
      beardo number 7
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      Re: klopp or the players?
      Reply #40: Jan 21, 2017 05:30:16 pm
      Neither. The players are doing their absolute best, and Jürgen has performed a miracle to have this squad right up there challenging for as long as he has. The wheels have well fell off mate

      Unfortunately we are running out of gas, inspiration and able bodies. I suppose you could argue that in that case it's Klopps fault for not strengthening the squad but I think that's a separate argument. As it stands, the players we do have and the manager deserve credit IMHO for having a right good go at it so far. My fear is that there is a real chance that we are about to witness the wheels coming off a bit, the only positive about that if it does happen is that we'll know next time (hopefully).

      beardo number 7
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      Re: klopp or the players?
      Reply #41: Jan 21, 2017 05:31:00 pm
      The wheels have well fell off mate
      heimdall
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      Re: klopp or the players?
      Reply #42: Jan 21, 2017 05:38:10 pm
      Only if City score 10.  The worst we end the weekend is 4th, the best is 3rd.

      OK fair point, but its still crap this should have been easy 3 points. I'm worried that the team is running out of steam, there were so many mis hit passes and crosses today mixed with terrible finishing, bar Firmino.
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: klopp or the players?
      Reply #43: Jan 21, 2017 05:41:32 pm
      Knee jerk for me is people reactng after a bad performance team wise or individually. People taking a group of say 10 games were 7 have been bad and asking what's going on here or are the players under performing or the managers tactics gone stale isn't knee jerk it's concern and throw in the position we were in its also bitter disappointment

      Then why didn't you open a 'klopp or the players' when we were flying?

      All be it one with capital letters in it.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: klopp or the players?
      Reply #44: Jan 21, 2017 05:42:34 pm
      OK fair point, but its still crap this should have been easy 3 points. I'm worried that the team is running out of steam, there were so many mis hit passes and crosses today mixed with terrible finishing, bar Firmino.

      As I posted elsewhere I think Lallana loses half his value when he plays in the front three; he can create so much coming in from the mid-field where has space to do his business. This constant need to fit Can into the squad does my head in...I would rather see Lallana in the midfield and anyone else up front Origi, Ojo etc....to make it happen...hell I would accept putting Woodburn up there if it meant Adam could be playing where he is supposed to.
      Brian78
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      Re: klopp or the players?
      Reply #45: Jan 21, 2017 05:45:14 pm
      Then why didn't you open a 'klopp or the players' when we were flying?

      All be it one with capital letters in it.

      Never thought of it. Now you brought it up what would your answer be?

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