Summer Outgoings 2017

Around this time last year I started a topic to look at the huge number of players we had accrued over the years, a lot of which were barely used, and to discuss who could be on their way out in the summer.  As it happened last summer saw 23 players leave the Club from both the 1st team and the Academy, with another 12 going out on loan, out of the 53 players listed in the OP.

This topic is pretty much the same, where we'll be looking at those who remained, those who came in last summer, who should stay again, who's impressed and who not so much. 

IT'S NOT TO DISCUSS WHO SHOULD COME IN!!

This was our named squad for the 2016/17 season.

Simon Mignolet, Loris Karius, Alex Manninger

Joel Matip, Dejan Lovren, Ragnar Klavan, Mamadou Sakho, Tiago Ilori, Nathaniel Clyne (HG), James Milner (HG), Alberto Moreno

Emre Can, Jordan Henderson (HG), Philippe Coutinho, Adam Lallana (HG), Georginio Wijnaldum, Sadio Mane, Lucas Leiva, Kevin Stewart (HG),

Daniel Sturridge (HG), Roberto Firmino, Danny Ings (HG)

(HG – Homegrown Player)

Grujic and Origi were not named as they were under 21s.  Origi will need to be next season.

Loaned out.

Bogdan, Ward, Fulton, Flanno, Wisdom, Jones, Allan, Kent, Marko, Awaniyi, Dunn, Hart.

From that 1st team squad Ilori has already gone and Sakho will almost certainly follow and out of those loaned out I'd expect us to let go/sell Bogdan, Ward, Fulton, Flanno, Wisdom, Jones, Marko and Dunn.

Bogdan should never have arrived.

Ward I think will stay at Huddersfield, as he's now playing every week and unless Migs forces a move he'll be 3rd choice here.

Fulton hasn't done much at Chesterfield, he's played 22 games out of 28 and they're sitting in the relegation zone on 26 points with a GD of -17.

Dunn is always injured.

Flanno is a very sad case, not the best technically but always had heart and gave his best, unfortunately he's really not recovered from those knee injuries.

Wisdom and Jones I just can't see offering enough to keep them, same with Marko unless he has some out of this world performances at Hull.

I doubt Lucas will still be with us (but stranger things have happened) and it wouldn't surprise me to see Moreno, Can, Stewart, Ings and Sturridge go too.

Moreno has now had over a year of Jurgenification and he's still not got it, time to stop flogging a dead horse and accept defeat.

Can is a weird one, he's regressed this season or at least not developed how we expected him to do and now, by all accounts, he's stalling on extending his contract with Juve apparrently sniffing round.  I know he seems to be a Klopp favourite but if he doesn't want to be here, then off you go.

Stewart, Ings and Studge, now there's a conundrum. 

Stewart is no more than a decent squad player, I doubt if he'll ever play a significant role at the Club but Jürgen likes him, he seems happy with that role and he's homegrown. 

Ings bless him, he so desparately wanted to be part of the Club and do his bit when asked of him and if his damned knees had held up he probably would have too.  Oh how we could have done with him since November!  I'd say him staying or leaving depends on if he's recovered from the last injury or not.  We can't sell an injured player if they can't pass the medical.

Studge really needs to go and I think Jürgen has realised that now.  He'll be a fantastic striker for someone, not as prolific as he was but still a decent striker.

From the youngsters Randall will more than likely go, Jordan Williams is another I expect to leave and Tom Brewitt has been having trials with other clubs.

So that's 17 players that barely feature, aren't good enough and never will be for what Jürgen needs or totally unreliable fitness wise.

Notable young players: Trent Alexander-Arnold, Ovie Ejaria, Joe Gomez, Sheyi Ojo, Harry Wilson, Ben Woodburn, Shamal George, Kamil Grabara, Cameron Brannagan, Pedro Chirivella, Ryan Kent.

From the youngsters, Cam, Pedro and Brooks Lennon are now out on loan till the summer, Kent already was, the rest are training with and considered part of the senior squad, apart from the 2 keepers.  Naturally they'll all continue to play at u23s level when they aren't part of the senior matchday squad. 

Joe and Sheyi are still being gradually brought back to match fitness and now poor old Ovie has a really bad injury that could be devestating for his development.  Grujic is also still very young and has barely got any PL minutes due to his ongoing injury problems but if he recovers well from them we'll see much more of him next season too. 

Off the top of the head these players should go. In some cases for their own sake.

Sakho Moreno Lucas sturridge can Stewart markovic wisdom and one of the keepers

All of them!!  We are sh*t!!  Rip it up and start over.... 

Sakho, Moreno, Lucas, Markovic, and Studge all seem likely to leave.  I'd personally sell Can and replace him, but Jürgen has a boner for his fellow countryman so I can't see it happening.  Others like Stewart and Ings may depart if anyone registers a genuine interest. 

As long as the core is kept together and we get about 5 quality players (CB, LB, CM, RW/LW, ST) who fit Klopp's tactical approach then we'll be in business!!

It's interesting to hear Klopp talk about Stewart...."He will be a good PL player someday", not "He will be a good LFC player someday" so I think we will be entertaining offers; as far as others are concerned that I think are out in no particular order and/or offers we receive.

Bogdan
Moreno
Stewart
Sturridge
Randall
Markovic
Wisdom
Lucas
Sakho
Manninger
Flanagan

Well done Debs a lot of work doing that,when did we let Jordan Ibe go cant remember

Well done Debs a lot of work doing that,when did we let Jordan Ibe go cant remember

Last summer mate.

Well done Debs a lot of work doing that,when did we let Jordan Ibe go cant remember

Only for £15 million to Bournemouth.

Cheers Reddebs/Shabs quite liked the lad ,could have done a job for us recently .

Around this time last year I started a topic to look at the huge number of players we had accrued over the years, a lot of which were barely used, and to discuss who could be on their way out in the summer.  As it happened last summer saw 23 players leave the Club from both the 1st team and the Academy, with another 12 going out on loan, out of the 53 players listed in the OP.

This topic is pretty much the same, where we'll be looking at those who remained, those who came in last summer, who should stay again, who's impressed and who not so much. 

IT'S NOT TO DISCUSS WHO SHOULD COME IN!!

This was our named squad for the 2016/17 season.

Simon Mignolet, Loris Karius, Alex Manninger

Joel Matip, Dejan Lovren, Ragnar Klavan, Mamadou Sakho, Tiago Ilori, Nathaniel Clyne (HG), James Milner (HG), Alberto Moreno

Emre Can, Jordan Henderson (HG), Philippe Coutinho, Adam Lallana (HG), Georginio Wijnaldum, Sadio Mane, Lucas Leiva, Kevin Stewart (HG),

Daniel Sturridge (HG), Roberto Firmino, Danny Ings (HG)

(HG – Homegrown Player)

Grujic and Origi were not named as they were under 21s.  Origi will need to be next season.

Loaned out.

Bogdan, Ward, Fulton, Flanno, Wisdom, Jones, Allan, Kent, Marko, Awaniyi, Dunn, Hart.

From that 1st team squad Ilori has already gone and Sakho will almost certainly follow and out of those loaned out I'd expect us to let go/sell Bogdan, Ward, Fulton, Flanno, Wisdom, Jones, Marko and Dunn.

Bogdan should never have arrived.

Ward I think will stay at Huddersfield, as he's now playing every week and unless Migs forces a move he'll be 3rd choice here.

Fulton hasn't done much at Chesterfield, he's played 22 games out of 28 and they're sitting in the relegation zone on 26 points with a GD of -17.

Dunn is always injured.

Flanno is a very sad case, not the best technically but always had heart and gave his best, unfortunately he's really not recovered from those knee injuries.

Wisdom and Jones I just can't see offering enough to keep them, same with Marko unless he has some out of this world performances at Hull.

I doubt Lucas will still be with us (but stranger things have happened) and it wouldn't surprise me to see Moreno, Can, Stewart, Ings and Sturridge go too.

Moreno has now had over a year of Jurgenification and he's still not got it, time to stop flogging a dead horse and accept defeat.

Can is a weird one, he's regressed this season or at least not developed how we expected him to do and now, by all accounts, he's stalling on extending his contract with Juve apparrently sniffing round.  I know he seems to be a Klopp favourite but if he doesn't want to be here, then off you go.

Stewart, Ings and Studge, now there's a conundrum. 

Stewart is no more than a decent squad player, I doubt if he'll ever play a significant role at the Club but Jürgen likes him, he seems happy with that role and he's homegrown. 

Ings bless him, he so desparately wanted to be part of the Club and do his bit when asked of him and if his damned knees had held up he probably would have too.  Oh how we could have done with him since November!  I'd say him staying or leaving depends on if he's recovered from the last injury or not.  We can't sell an injured player if they can't pass the medical.

Studge really needs to go and I think Jürgen has realised that now.  He'll be a fantastic striker for someone, not as prolific as he was but still a decent striker.

From the youngsters Randall will more than likely go, Jordan Williams is another I expect to leave and Tom Brewitt has been having trials with other clubs.

So that's 17 players that barely feature, aren't good enough and never will be for what Jürgen needs or totally unreliable fitness wise.

Notable young players: Trent Alexander-Arnold, Ovie Ejaria, Joe Gomez, Sheyi Ojo, Harry Wilson, Ben Woodburn, Shamal George, Kamil Grabara, Cameron Brannagan, Pedro Chirivella, Ryan Kent.

From the youngsters, Cam, Pedro and Brooks Lennon are now out on loan till the summer, Kent already was, the rest are training with and considered part of the senior squad, apart from the 2 keepers.  Naturally they'll all continue to play at u23s level when they aren't part of the senior matchday squad. 

Joe and Sheyi are still being gradually brought back to match fitness and now poor old Ovie has a really bad injury that could be devestating for his development.  Grujic is also still very young and has barely got any PL minutes due to his ongoing injury problems but if he recovers well from them we'll see much more of him next season too.

Great stuff Debs, as we've come to expect.  Quick question - Rhian Brewster:  Where do you see him as a likely candidate for cup matches next season?  I've heard great things about him, but never seen the lad - and I notice you haven't mentioned him.

I feel as if we're at one of our regular crossroads as a club where we are faced with a choice of policies in terms of how we build our team(s) towards success in the next few years.

Do we:   

• • Stay close to Klopp's heart and nurture, develop and train the young talent we have coming through or already here; selling those that don't quite make it along the way, to build a team of lads who came through togetehr (making full use of the academy)? 
                 
    Do a Chelski / ManC / ManU and buy proven but costly Champions League talent across most positions, including the odd Big Name (Big Wages), with the odd outstanding youngster allowed his chance (maybe only 1 on the bench per season)?
    
    Mix a few of the best younger lads with a sprinkling of Premier-proven pros who fit the JK mould (likes of Mane, Ings, etc) as we do at the moment?

I think as a club the second option is seen as 'not our way,' although some fans would see it as the ONLY way forward if we want success.
The third is the one we seem a bit stuck in.  And it hasn't looked too successful so far, because the quality we need/crave doesn't appear to be here, at least not in enough depth, not yet.
The first option is the huge gamble, the patience game - success in a few years if it works, potential short term disaster if it doesn't.  Rule it out - no one has the patience.

Regarding outgoings, option 1 means we hang on to the the young lads who maybe aren't doing so well right now, as they should 'develop'.

Option 2 means wholesale offloading to raise money and create space in the squad for costly stellar names.

Option 3 means we pretty much carry on as we are, accumulating more 'might be good one day' players of potential, who we soon need to offload as they prove inadequate, yet struggle to do so.

The more I look at it, the more option 2 looks like the only realistic winning strategy.  Sell our soul to the devil (or his Agents)?

Great stuff Debs, as we've come to expect.  Quick question - Rhian Brewster:  Where do you see him as a likely candidate for cup matches next season?  I've heard great things about him, but never seen the lad - and I notice you haven't mentioned him.

I feel as if we're at one of our regular crossroads as a club where we are faced with a choice of policies in terms of how we build our team(s) towards success in the next few years.

Do we:   

• • Stay close to Klopp's heart and nurture, develop and train the young talent we have coming through or already here; selling those that don't quite make it along the way, to build a team of lads who came through togetehr (making full use of the academy)? 
                 
    Do a Chelski / ManC / ManU and buy proven but costly Champions League talent across most positions, including the odd Big Name (Big Wages), with the odd outstanding youngster allowed his chance (maybe only 1 on the bench per season)?
    
    Mix a few of the best younger lads with a sprinkling of Premier-proven pros who fit the JK mould (likes of Mane, Ings, etc) as we do at the moment?

I think as a club the second option is seen as 'not our way,' although some fans would see it as the ONLY way forward if we want success.
The third is the one we seem a bit stuck in.  And it hasn't looked too successful so far, because the quality we need/crave doesn't appear to be here, at least not in enough depth, not yet.
The first option is the huge gamble, the patience game - success in a few years if it works, potential short term disaster if it doesn't.  Rule it out - no one has the patience.

Regarding outgoings, option 1 means we hang on to the the young lads who maybe aren't doing so well right now, as they should 'develop'.

Option 2 means wholesale offloading to raise money and create space in the squad for costly stellar names.

Option 3 means we pretty much carry on as we are, accumulating more 'might be good one day' players of potential, who we soon need to offload as they prove inadequate, yet struggle to do so.

The more I look at it, the more option 2 looks like the only realistic winning strategy.  Sell our soul to the devil (or his Agents)?

I know last seasons topic was labelled as a clearout as that's what it needed to be and that's essentially what happened but I think we need to stop thinking of transfer windows as a means to raise funds and/or cut costs now. 

Jürgen is building his squad with players he wants to keep because they offer what he needs and/or players he can develop, so those who don't will be moved on.  It doesn't matter if they're young or old or somewhere in between, bring in funds or are released.  The Academy did the same last summer and will do again this summer as we had a tendency to keep hold of players way beyond their usefulness to theirs and our detriment.

He has a small core of players he trusts, his starting 11 plus one or two others, then he has his developers.  My instincts tell me that the core will remain and as with last summers incomings he'll do the same or similar this summer.  So 3 or 4 starters or challengers to those starters (Mane, Gini, Matip, Karius) plus 3 or 4 that he can develop or with experience as back ups (Manninger, Klaven, Grujic). 

As for the Academy lads, there are so many factors that can effect who gets that breakthrough and then kicks on.  Last summer most of us who follow the Academy lads would probably not have said those who broke through would, as they were all so young and had barely, if at all played with the u23s.  They were all playing mainly at u18s.  The training camp that Jürgen did in Tenerife during the International break last March/April brought them to the fore.  On the back of that, they were involved in the pre season games and now they're part of the senior squad. 

TAA, for example, leapfrogged Connor Randall at RB due to Connors long term injury.  We had no RB for the u23s so he was promoted but Ojo who was expected to feature far more this season suffered a fractured spine in pre season which has kept him out of contention.  I'm sure that he would have been used as Manes replacement during the AFCON if he'd been involved all season.

So to answer your questions.

Rhian Brewster wasn't mentioned due to he's only just turned 17, he is definitely a talent but is he ready for 1st team action?  Probably not this season, unless we whither away so badly that we're out of all the European qualification places and have nothing to play for but who the hell knows.  As for next season?  If we qualify for the CL then he'll be playing in the Youth version of it, as will a lot of the others, which will be amazing for their development and gaining experience.  He could possible get a League Cup game dependent on who we draw in the early stages.

I don't think we are at a crossroads mate as that implies we're not sure of which direction to take.  We'll continue to grow as a squad, we'll continue to develop the young players both from the Academy and those bought and we'll continue to improve our starting and matchday squad as we did last summer.  We're tying down our most imprtant players to new long term contracts and those who don't want to commit will leave. 

I think we have a valid route to our destination and Jürgen to drive us there.

But that's just my take on things and I'm always positively charged 

Another 'summer clearout' thread? A bit early aint it?

We should be looking to add players to our squad let alone 'clear some out'.

We got some nerve talkin about selling players to the likes of west ham, stoke, swansea etc etc, WE CAN'T EVEN BEAT THEM ON A REGULAR BASIS.

Come back to reality people.

Another 'summer clearout' thread? A bit early aint it?

We should be looking to add players to our squad let alone 'clear some out'.

We got some nerve talkin about selling players to the likes of west ham, stoke, swansea etc etc, WE CAN'T EVEN BEAT THEM ON A REGULAR BASIS.

Come back to reality people.

No point keeping players that barely play mate.  We can only register 25 players so where would the new ones go when they're signed.

Another 'summer clearout' thread? A bit early aint it?

We should be looking to add players to our squad let alone 'clear some out'.

We got some nerve talkin about selling players to the likes of west ham, stoke, swansea etc etc, WE CAN'T EVEN BEAT THEM ON A REGULAR BASIS.

Come back to reality people.

I think this is reality. There are a lot of players who do not fit the bill or put bluntly are just not good enough.

Would you prefer it if we kept those players? Not too sure what your point is with that, we are well aware of our shortcomings without you telling us to "come back to reality".

On topic. I think we will definitely see Moreno, Sturridge, Randall, Sakho all gone from the first team.

With regards to those on the peripheral it was telling that Markovic went straight back on loan so he will be gone. As will Bogdan, Randall, Stewart and possibly one of the two keepers.

FSG?

FSG?

You tease you....

Any idea how many of our academy players are looking to be sold?

We can't even handle our current schedule without European football. U want to lessen the squad and then replace those players? with who? It'll still be a weak squad with low numbers.

We shouldn't be losing players like Can, Sahko and Sturridge, just because their form is poor currently. We should be adding to them Yall some fair weather fans. SMH.

We can't even handle our current schedule without European football. U want to lessen the squad and then replace those players? with who? It'll still be a weak squad with low numbers.

We shouldn't be losing players like Can, Sahko and Sturridge, just because their form is poor currently. We should be adding to them Yall some fair weather fans. SMH.

Most of the players discussed haven't even played this season, most aren't even at the club because they're out on loan.  How will it weaken us??

We can't even handle our current schedule without European football. U want to lessen the squad and then replace those players? with who? It'll still be a weak squad with low numbers.

We shouldn't be losing players like Can, Sahko and Sturridge, just because their form is poor currently. We should be adding to them Yall some fair weather fans. SMH.

Fair weather because I would like to see the players who will not/cannot feature moved on? The players mentioned, with the exception of Daniel Sturridge have failed to make an impact or improve in the way we hoped they would. Let's take Alberto Moreno for example. Do you think he should be in the squad next season? The man is a liability.
Daniel Sturridge either cannot or will not play as he used to, it seems the injuries have caught up with him, and if not he is just an idle b***ard. Either way, unless there is a marked Improvement he should go.

Incidentally, I want these changes to Improve the squad. I have been going to Anfield for almost 40 years, I have seen us win leagues, FA Cups, League Cups and I have been to European finals, I have seen us beaten by Oldham, Barnsley, Bolton Wanderers etc. etc and I will be renewing my season ticket come May, whatever happpens.

Fair weather fan? Catch yourself on lad!

Good topic this Debs.

My take on it ... although its January  is ....


Mignolet .   Leopard and spots. Saves a penalty and yet wasn't even aware for the Chavs goal.  31/1/17.
Certainly not a Top Four Goalkeeper .

Sturridge    bye bye  and off you go where they will appreciate a non chasing part time forward.

Ings     Think that it has been one injury too many and really feel for the lad .

Moreno  Will always be a weakness.

Markovic   On loan and will be gone.

Wisdom  Not quite made the grade .

Sakho   On loan and good riddance.
 
Manninger  Was a stop gap gap.

Flanagan  Best of luck to the lad .


Would love to see Lucas kept on the staff .
Loyal servant.

Would love to see Lucas kept on the staff .
Loyal servant.

He's only just turned 30 mate. Think he wants to carry on playing for a bit! Even if it's not at the very highest level.

might be in the minority here, and dont think it will happen but Lovren for me.
Just too erratic. last thing you want is a CB whom youve no idea what hes going to do.

appalling tonight in the lead up to the penalty. id just about accept him as a squad player but not first choice for me.

might be in the minority here, and dont think it will happen but Lovren for me.
Just too erratic. last thing you want is a CB whom youve no idea what hes going to do.

appalling tonight in the lead up to the penalty. id just about accept him as a squad player but not first choice for me.

I was shouting blue murder at the television tonight at some of his decisions.

I like the guy - I think he should be a squad player who might come in handy for cup games next season but he's not a starter. Not a starter at all, and the reason is primarily because he is so inconsistent as you suggest.

One match he is sublime, the next he looks like a donkey. Klopp would do well to get another quality centre back in.

Also, Emre Can has to go.

Just unbearable to watch - when you're brought up on a diet of Steven Gerrard rampaging the midfield like a bull in a china shop, then supporters standards are going to be unbelievably high.

He's the complete antithesis of Steven Gerrard - he sucks the energy out of the team, F***ing about with possession and ultimately doing F**k all with it, slowing down attacks with mind numbingly tedious hesitations, constantly beaten, oh, and he is so slow. Soooooooooooo F***ing slow.

It's like watching a player in slow motion. He brings absolutely nothing to the side and only serves to harm our chances of winning matches. sh*te at attacking, sh*te at defending - he's no good at anything.