What would you change?

Hate to say it, but we don't really have the players to change much do we?

It's ok saying Conte changed things at Chelsea after two drubbings, but their squad is light years away from ours and they spend fortunes every window....

we don't

This kind of thing with our subs has seemed to go on forever . They just come on and settle straight into the mire. No impact whatsoever . In fact the last time i can remember a sub changing the direction of a game for us was Didi 2005 Final  and Jari Litmanen against Arsenal  in 2002 or 3 .

Yet subs come on AGAINST us and seem to have an effect alot of the time. F**kin hell my heads battered.

Benayoun was a good sub. Sturridge has had an impact off the bench on occasion ( I think, although I'm struggling to remember specifics). But yeah, we haven't had anything resembling a super sub in donkeys years.

Benayoun was a good sub. Sturridge has had an impact off the bench on occasion ( I think, although I'm struggling to remember specifics). But yeah, we haven't had anything resembling a super sub in donkeys years.

Super sub you mean David Fairclough?

Super sub you mean David Fairclough?

Exactly. Been a while.

You don't seem to get many impact subs in football these days anyway. You'd think there'd be few guys floating about who were eg maybe unfit but talented, who you could get fairly cheap and throw on when you were desperate.

I'm not actually advocating that as a transfer policy. Just saying you'd think there'd be more of them about.

Impact subs are generally wingers with a bit of pace or a big centre forward to throw up top with 20 minutes to go and 9/10 they get you what you need.. a goal.
Sadly we don't have either at the club right now.

Every substitution we have made has made absolutely no difference to our game this last month when we really needed them too. Origi, Sturridge have just come on and blended into the same style of play...

Impact subs are generally wingers with a bit of pace or a big centre forward to throw up top with 20 minutes to go and 9/10 they get you what you need..

9/10 Hmm I reckon you'll find it's an awful lot closer to 1/10 times.

9/10 Hmm I reckon you'll find it's an awful lot closer to 1/10 times.

At least the option is there to mix it up and make a difference..with a bit more of a structured plan B

Lineup vs Hull in our 2-0 defeat before I started this topic:

Mignolet; Clyne, Matip, Lucas, Milner; Henderson, Lallana, Can; Mane, Coutinho, Firmino

I called for big changes and predicted that the Tottenham game would not be the true reflection. Then today we get this lineup:

Mignolet, Clyne, Matip, Lucas, Milner, Can, Wijnaldum, Lallana, Mane, Coutinho, Firmino.

Spot the difference? The only change is the enforced Wijnaldum coming in for Henderson.

So, no change at all. No change in our performance and subsequently no change in our results. We beat Tottenham with a much improved performance (no surprise there) and then straightaway, we face easy-beaters Leicester. Manager-less. Goal-less. In the bottom 3 of the table. We go out there and lose. Lose badly. Lose embarrassingly.

See what I'm getting at? If Klopp continues to do the same thing, we will continue on this awful run of form.

I've continually called for the dropping of Firmino (makeshift #9) and playing an actual Striker. Today we had Origi on the bench. Why? Klopp continues to back the under-performing, limited goal scoring Firmino ahead of strikers.  A sick Sturridge would have had a bigger impact on the game today.

Origi finally came on, and the game improved. If we had played like that, we would have beaten Leicester. But is this a sign of change? Highly unlikely. As demonstrated, nothing changed following that Hull defeat. 

I think it's time we moved on from the 4-3-3 that just isn't producing results anymore. Jürgen has clearly had enough of a few players and it would be easy to argue about who we think those players are and each one of us could probably make a case for and against if we so wished but the biggest problem we have right now is at the back.

We're a soft touch, I thought for a while when we weren't conceding shots on target that the dodgy spells on occasion were simply down to being out numbered but even then we weren't conceding goals it was more the keepers weren't even stopping shots at an average ratio but right now we look a mess back there.

Milner bombs on without checking, Clyne is more responsible in this manner but still he doesn't offer steel like protection that we need if we're going to play so open in the centre. Too often it's a pass to the channels that has us back peddling so fast that by the time we're close to organised the attack has either entered the 2nd phase or is over.

To counter this we should look to give our wide players even more license to move forward with the assumption they'll be out of position. I thought we were doing this in transition for a while in moving either Henderson, or Can as it was today into the CB role or between the CBs so they offered proper protection allowing either CB to cover the full-back.

The way around this is to go 3 at the back, we saw some of this today and in some ways it worked in my opinion. I know some will think it strange on the back of a performance that will get a lot of criticism but I saw some things that actually would work, or could work going forward:

                    Karius
        Lovren   Matip   Can
 TAA                               Moreno
   Wijnaldum Henderson Coutinho
              Firmino Mane


The idea behind it is that both Wijnaldum and Coutinho would be asked to stay narrow and be the first to cover for Moreno/TAA, 2nd cover would be Henderson and beyond that of course one of the CBs. Firmino and Mane can lead the line and interchange at will, it would offer both pace behind and a route through the middle. Neither TAA or Moreno would be required to simply cross the ball, they should always have Wijnaldum/Firmino on the right moving in between the CB and full-back and of course the opposite on the opposite flank.

I'm am just so tired of watching us work it wide only to hurl the ball in aimlessly time and time again and then be broken on so easily with 1 or 2 passes leading to a simple chance. Our best attack came tonight down the right when we intricately went around the full-back and were inches away from a tap in. This formation would promote that style of attack rather than the Clyne/Milner sh*t show I think we've had to endure for far too long.

Back to Basics.

Play Defenders in Defence, Midfielders in Midfield, Strikers as Strikers, Wingers as Wingers.

I want Ben Woodburn to play every game until the end of the season

The problem is that the team and squad is composed mostly of players who are good, some even very good, but none are title-winning good.  We're in fifth right now, right?  That's very, very good.  But it's not at the very top.  It basically is a reflection of the quality of players we have.  Very good, but not good enough to win.

I mean just look back at how excited so many people were about Lallana signing a new contract.  He's a good player.  On his day very good.  But is he the kind of player that really should make you *excited* when he signs a new contract?  You may say "well that's just one player," but he is the microcosm for basically the entire team.  Henderson; he can be good.  But not top level good.  Clyne.  Solid enough, but not top level good.  Let's not even talk about the CBs or our goalkeepers.  Milner, done a great job at LB but really?  Milner, our starting LB?  Can, Wijnaldum, decent players, occasionally have good moments but basically mediocre.  The only ones that are above reproach are Mane and Coutinho.  Firmino even drifts in and out sometimes.  And if we're brutally honest even Coutinho can go missing. 

So you put it all together and what do you get?  You get a football team that is basically at the level it should be at.  Near the top of the league but never *at* the top of it.  And until we stop gushing about how wonderful the Lallanas and Hendersons and Milners of this world are, we'll basically be stuck where we are for the foreseeable future.

Burnley 2 Liverpool 0 : Lovern + Klavan
Bournemouth 4 Liverpool 3 : Lovern + Lucas
Sunderland 2 Liverpool 2 : Lovern + Klavan
Liverpool 2 Swansea 3 : Lovern + Klavan
Leicester 3 Liverpool 1 : Matip + Lucas

I'm not saying this is the route of all our problems but it's a big part.
I was never his greatest fan but Sakho is twice the player of Klavan or Lucas I cannot understand why Jürgen spited himself without having someone at the very least equal to but ideally better than Sakho. 31 year old Ragnar Klavan at £4M sums up the total of our ambition under this board and manager. Medicocre mentality

Not enough competition within the squad - simple as that. 

I was never his greatest fan but Sakho is twice the player of Klavan or Lucas I cannot understand why Jürgen spited himself

I was one of Sakho's biggest fans but if something happened behind the scenes then something happened.  People have heard rumours but probably only a few know the truth.

BUT if he was going then Liverpool's real failure is not bringing anyone in. 

Lucas Leiva for fucks sake.  We've been defensively poor now for years and Lucas Leiva is consistently playing as our centre-half.  It is beyond belief.

Not enough competition within the squad - simple as that. 

I was one of Sakho's biggest fans but if something happened behind the scenes then something happened.  People have heard rumours but probably only a few know the truth.

BUT if he was going then Liverpool's real failure is not bringing anyone in. 

Lucas Leiva for fucks sake.  We've been defensively poor now for years and Lucas Leiva is consistently playing as our centre-half.  It is beyond belief.

Aye that one lands squarely on Kloppo and the club, get a decent replacement if you are binning off one of our better CB's.
And let's be fair he had the summer and January windows.

Needs to stop thinking he can turn water into wine.

Lucas as a CB what a joke 

Super sub you mean David Fairclough?

Ronnie Rosenthal 😳

We have no players with aggression or fight from keeper to striker, not one.

An argument can be made that Lovren can be an aggressive defender but that is it. The rest are fancy ball players.

Its been an issue for years and why it has not been addressed is a worry.

We are a much poorer version of Arsenal.

Players with less technical ability bully us around its a joke.

We have no players with aggression or fight from keeper to striker, not one.

An argument can be made that Lovren can be an aggressive defender but that is it. The rest are fancy ball players.

Its been an issue for years and why it has not been addressed is a worry.

We are a much poorer version of Arsenal.

Players with less technical ability bully us around its a joke.

This 100%,each and every successful team we have had over the decades has had  hard men in the team 'fighters' I don't need to name them as we all know who they where,& at the moment we don't have a single player in our squad  that  gets stuck in,infact when push comes to shove
We sh*t ourselves,we simply don't like the rough stuff.

I want Ben Woodburn to play every game until the end of the season

I don't expect this but would love to see it. Even in the little glimpses we see of him, he shows the mentality to try things in the attack which we are sorely lacking against teams who defend in numbers. There's no questioning his talent and whlle he's very young, how many top players around the world do you see already playing regularly when they are young. If we are building for next season, it makes a lot of sense to find out more about who will be here. By now Klopp should have a pretty good idea about who shouldn't be. And I don't mean by this to give up on this season, rather I think what Magillionare suggests would HELP US reach that top 4 spot, but sticking with the same lineup in "attack" is going to bring the same results.

A small thing (considering our other problems) is the awarding of new contracts during the season?

What the hell is that about? You've done well for half the season so you're getting a pay rise?

Will Lallana and Coutinho be getting pay reductions based on the second half?

Never really thought about this, but could be one of the main reasons why we are so vulnerable at set pieces and counters. Another thing I noticed, whilst we are exceptional pressing, as a team, we are not very good tacklers.

Tackling is a thing of the past. It'll be out of the game completely at some point. Bunch of F***ing fairies these days 😡

Not enough competition within the squad - simple as that. 

I was one of Sakho's biggest fans but if something happened behind the scenes then something happened.  People have heard rumours but probably only a few know the truth.

BUT if he was going then Liverpool's real failure is not bringing anyone in. 

Lucas Leiva for fucks sake.  We've been defensively poor now for years and Lucas Leiva is consistently playing as our centre-half.  It is beyond belief.

The boss brought Klavan in, so why not use him? Or Joe Gomez. Both out and defenders. Very strange...

What I want to see from Liverpool:

1. A club that challenges consistently to win every competition they are in.

2. A club that mixes targeted buys of top-class players (competing with other top clubs for those transfers), "bargain" buys and Bosmans to bring needed squad depth and perhaps the occasional first-choice gem, and top-class talent developed from the youth level, given the opportunity to flourish with the first team comes when the time comes.

3. A club that plays entertaining, winning football, balancing attacking and defensive responsibilities within the context of the reality of  English (and European) football. This means tactics, quality of player and quality of squad.

4. A club whose players care about the club, supporters, city, etc. Who recognize the responsibility that comes with the privilege they enjoy as professional footballers at one of the most famous clubs in the world. This includes on and off-pitch discipline.

5. A club that enjoys robust financial health, fully capable of all needed additions to the playing staff without being reckless with the  club's economic future (again in the context of global, financial/economic reality).

A lot of clubs, probably all clubs, would list something like this as their goal - probably all the supporters on here as well. The difference is, we are a club that has been this and can be this again. Some of you don't think the owners want this or that they or the manager understand how to achieve this.

In the end, all of our chatter on here, sarcasm,slagging back and forth (including from me) is meaningless. What matters is whether we get there. I hope I am right that the current leadership of the club can get us there. That is what this is all about to me, not me being right or someone else being wrong. Look at the passion on here. It's something to behold and I'm reminded to never take it for granted. This club is truly something special (as in other-worldly special). I hope you all have a lovely Tuesday and find some enjoyment out of life today, this week and especially from the weekend match (and beyond).