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      Divock Origi - Somewhere Else

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      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #30: Mar 24, 2017 07:48:58 pm
      I haven't given up on the future captain living up to his name yet! Rest assured, if he gets tossed the armband in the dying seconds of a pre season friendly I'll be all over it  :lmao:.

      As for "World Class", it's a much overused phrase. Mind you, so is "has the potential to be as good as Lukaku" in this case  :lmao:.

      Seriously Bigmick, is it any where as ludicrous as this Can comment?

      Can he become a goalscoring midfielder who gets up and down, scores with both feet and headers, with a good pass on him (think Frank Lampard) and I think he can. Whether he will get anywhere near that level really depends on what's holding his ears apart, but while in natural ability he would be up there with the ex Chelsea man, in the desire to maximise his abilities he may be found seriously wanting, we'll see.

      I'll ask you again, what is the difference between that and what me and heimdall said?

      As for Origi, he may never reach his potential just like Balotelli, J.Cole, Denilson, Robinho etc, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the potential to reach Lukaku level, and what is Lukaku level? Exceptional, world class? I see him as a very good striker, that is all, but you make it sound as if he's on the Suarez level which is untouchable imo.
      bigmick
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #31: Mar 24, 2017 08:30:41 pm
      Seriously Bigmick, is it any where as ludicrous as this Can comment?

      I'll ask you again, what is the difference between that and what me and heimdall said?

      As for Origi, he may never reach his potential just like Balotelli, J.Cole, Denilson, Robinho etc, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the potential to reach Lukaku level, and what is Lukaku level? Exceptional, world class? I see him as a very good striker, that is all, but you make it sound as if he's on the Suarez level which is untouchable imo.

      I did read the incredulous comments after I made the Can statements, and in many ways they're fair enough. Frank Lampard turned himself into a very fine midfielder indeed, one of the Worlds better IMHO at his peak and Can is miles from that. That said, there's a Youtube clip of a West Ham shareholders press conference where the fans got to quiz Harry Redknapp. At that time, the season ticket holders were convinced that Lampard was receiving preferential treatment, and that Redknapp had actually let better players than the assistant managers son leave the club. Redknapp basically came out and said that Lampard would go onto become a brilliant player, there were guffaws around the room but of course he was right in the end. My point is that Lampard was called "Fat Frank" for a reason, and in some ways Can reminds me of what he was like as a youngster.

      In what sense? Well he's obviously a good footballer (Can) and has a good range of pass, but he looks at time to lack mobility. He has a good shot on him off both feet (Can) and is decent in the air, but tends to arrive too late on the scene to look like he's about to become a goalscoring midfielder. It is possible to develop it though, as Lampard did with hour upon hour of training after the sessions have finished, practicing shooting, getting his body-weight under control, thinking about the game etc. We had a similar player in Kevin Keegan who made himself into a European footballer of the year by maximising his talent. See that's the thing with can, he has possibilities to become a really top player IMHO, not a Steven Gerrard type of naturally gifted superstar but a worthy wearer of the central midfield shirt for Liverpool.

      Origi by contrast is willing as they come, but as of now simply miles away from being good enough IMHO, and although he obviously will improve it will only ever be to get to a level where he's a goodish Premiership striker. I would have thought that if he can ever get to the level of say Rondon at West Brom he will have done himself every bit of justice it's reasonable to expect, a decent player is what he ought to aspire to being. Lukaku NOW is miles ahead of him, and it's obvious that the Everton man will improve upon what he has already achieved, there's simply no comparison in my book. As for "World class", in Can's case it's extremely unlikely and in Origi's case it's cloud cuckoo land IMHO.   
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #32: Mar 24, 2017 09:24:34 pm
      I did read the incredulous comments after I made the Can statements, and in many ways they're fair enough. Frank Lampard turned himself into a very fine midfielder indeed, one of the Worlds better IMHO at his peak and Can is miles from that. That said, there's a Youtube clip of a West Ham shareholders press conference where the fans got to quiz Harry Redknapp. At that time, the season ticket holders were convinced that Lampard was receiving preferential treatment, and that Redknapp had actually let better players than the assistant managers son leave the club. Redknapp basically came out and said that Lampard would go onto become a brilliant player, there were guffaws around the room but of course he was right in the end. My point is that Lampard was called "Fat Frank" for a reason, and in some ways Can reminds me of what he was like as a youngster.

      In what sense? Well he's obviously a good footballer (Can) and has a good range of pass, but he looks at time to lack mobility. He has a good shot on him off both feet (Can) and is decent in the air, but tends to arrive too late on the scene to look like he's about to become a goalscoring midfielder. It is possible to develop it though, as Lampard did with hour upon hour of training after the sessions have finished, practicing shooting, getting his body-weight under control, thinking about the game etc. We had a similar player in Kevin Keegan who made himself into a European footballer of the year by maximising his talent. See that's the thing with can, he has possibilities to become a really top player IMHO, not a Steven Gerrard type of naturally gifted superstar but a worthy wearer of the central midfield shirt for Liverpool.

      Origi by contrast is willing as they come, but as of now simply miles away from being good enough IMHO, and although he obviously will improve it will only ever be to get to a level where he's a goodish Premiership striker. I would have thought that if he can ever get to the level of say Rondon at West Brom he will have done himself every bit of justice it's reasonable to expect, a decent player is what he ought to aspire to being. Lukaku NOW is miles ahead of him, and it's obvious that the Everton man will improve upon what he has already achieved, there's simply no comparison in my book. As for "World class", in Can's case it's extremely unlikely and in Origi's case it's cloud cuckoo land IMHO.   

      Ok, just to clarify, you are hinting towards Can having the potential to reach Lampard level (I would consider that exceptional - world class) if he works hard, and it's not you saying he is just as good as Lampard when he was banging in those goals for Chelsea at 26 years old?

      I believe I said exactly what you are saying but used Origi's name and got slated and accused of saying he is as good, if not better than Lukaku. No difference to yours and my post on the potential of our players.

       I don't rate Can as highly as you, especially not in the attacking role. I don't think he's a good enough footballer to play as an attacking midfielder. The closest to Lampard I  have seen is Deli Alli though.

      And fyi, my point wasn't about your comment/opinion on Can the player, more about your post in comparison to mine in which you mis-interrupted and slated.
      bigmick
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #33: Mar 24, 2017 09:46:49 pm
      Ok, just to clarify, you are hinting towards Can having the potential to reach Lampard level (I would consider that exceptional - world class) if he works hard, and it's not you saying he is just as good as Lampard when he was banging in those goals for Chelsea at 26 years old?

      I believe I said exactly what you are saying but used Origi's name and got slated and accused of saying he is as good, if not better than Lukaku. No difference to yours and my post on the potential of our players.

       I don't rate Can as highly as you, especially not in the attacking role. I don't think he's a good enough footballer to play as an attacking midfielder. The closest to Lampard I  have seen is Deli Alli though.

      And fyi, my point wasn't about your comment/opinion on Can the player, more about your post in comparison to mine in which you mis-interrupted and slated.


      Mate my sincere apologies if I've offended you, that was the last thing I was intending to do or ever intend to do on a football forum. We normally agree on stuff, we clearly don't on Origi. Sorry again if my tone was annoying, like I say I didn't and don't mean it to be.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #34: Mar 24, 2017 10:17:24 pm
      I'm sure you both can agree Can and Origi have some way to go before they can be considered really good PL players never mind world class - whatever that means!

      Just goes to show its all about opinions.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #35: Mar 24, 2017 10:22:58 pm
      Mate my sincere apologies if I've offended you, that was the last thing I was intending to do or ever intend to do on a football forum. We normally agree on stuff, we clearly don't on Origi. Sorry again if my tone was annoying, like I say I didn't and don't mean it to be.


      I apologize for being a dick towards you too :p

      Different opinions is not the problem, and yeah, sometimes, the silly ones deserves to be laughed and slated at, but I just wanted to get my point across that I didn't say Origi was better than Lukaku or world class, and tbh, if I had, I should expect a barrage of abuse!
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #36: Mar 24, 2017 10:38:46 pm
      If and its a big IF Origi can become a more physical player then he will become world class, I would also love to see him play with a strike partner as I don't think playing up top on his own does him any favours. Bottom line is that for the immediate future we need a much better striker,

      I think this is the quote and poster in question which started the whole "world class" debate off.

      So, it was claimed that he would become world class, with a big IF re his physical presence.

      Pretty innocuous on both sides really and nothing much in it.

      Typical, that a couple of posters need a f**king eulogising autopsy over the whole debate.
      srslfc
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #37: Mar 24, 2017 10:46:38 pm
      I think this is the quote and poster in question which started the whole "world class" debate off.

      So, it was claimed that he would become world class, with a big IF re his physical presence.

      Pretty innocuous on both sides really and nothing much in it.

      Typical, that a couple of posters need a f**king eulogising autopsy over the whole debate.

      I don't get why people are being so defensive over it if I'm honest Beer.

      Someone indicated they felt he could become better than Lukaku.

      Many, including me, disagree but I don't think anyone has been over the top.

      Beerbelly
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #38: Mar 24, 2017 10:48:57 pm
      I don't get why people are being so defensive over it if I'm honest Beer.

      Someone indicated they felt he could become better than Lukaku.

      Many, including me, disagree but I don't think anyone has been over the top.

      Me neither mate.

      I think some people have nothing better to do with their time.

      redkenny
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #39: Mar 27, 2017 09:29:21 am
      It's interesting this, because personally I think Origi has HUGE potential and in terms of him being better than Lukaku, I think that's true - but only in certain aspects of the game. No idea whether Origi could ever be as deadly a finisher as Lukaku. Lukaku is finding the target more naturally these days. But in terms of all round game and what the player brings to the team, then yes, I think Origi could grow into a nightmare of a player to play against. At the moment, if you isolate Lukaku, he finds it hard to influence the game.

      With Origi, I think he needs to sort his head out. Whether it's a case of being low on confidence or too overconfident, I think he needs to get the balance right. I think he's had one decent run of games but apart from that, things haven't gone his way, he's drifted in and out of games and has had a significant amount of time on the bench.

      I think we might benefit from a more mature Origi and if he does move on, I reckon it'll be his own doing. I'd always have him playing down the left of a front three. Stretching defences as well as being able to cut inside and have a shot, he'd probably get a good few goals. Or certainly produce some space for some of the other lads.

      He could just be one for the conveyor belt though..who really knows?
      Swab
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #40: Mar 27, 2017 12:32:58 pm
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #41: Mar 28, 2017 08:34:48 pm
      Where Origi has had his best moments is when he has some time and space to run with the ball, utilizing his size and pace. He can hold the ball pretty well also. But as a goal-scoring target player in the English style, I'm not sure he will ever be that kind of player. I've seen Belgium try to use him that way before and he doesn't seem to have that lethal quality, or the ability in the air.

      So some of this is expectations and price tag. You need squad players to do well over a long season, but it can be hard to convince someone that is where his best chance of competitive success lies.
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #42: Mar 29, 2017 09:15:15 am
      It's interesting this, because personally I think Origi has HUGE potential and in terms of him being better than Lukaku, I think that's true - but only in certain aspects of the game. No idea whether Origi could ever be as deadly a finisher as Lukaku.
      I get what you're saying but ain't that the point Kenny: comparing like for like as goalscoring strikers? Otherwise it's a tad moot.

      Yes he may be better and have more potential than Lukaku as a 'wide' man, who holds it up (for e.g.) but right now Lukaku is one of the league's leading goalscorers and that (surely) is where the comparisons started.

      Otherwise we could say [and be 100% accurate] that Karius has the potential to be better than Lukaku... but only in certain aspects - shot stopping and handling for e.g. 😊

      Joking aside: I hope that, in two years or less, Divock exceeds anything that blueshite is or will be and I hope it's here but equally I hope it's in his goalscoring prowess and not how well he holds the ball up. 🙄

      I think more Fowler than Heskey; if that makes sense. 😎

      redkenny
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #43: Mar 29, 2017 11:20:57 am
      I get what you're saying but ain't that the point Kenny: comparing like for like as goalscoring strikers? Otherwise it's a tad moot.

      Yes he may be better and have more potential than Lukaku as a 'wide' man, who holds it up (for e.g.) but right now Lukaku is one of the league's leading goalscorers and that (surely) is where the comparisons started.

      Otherwise we could say [and be 100% accurate] that Karius has the potential to be better than Lukaku... but only in certain aspects - shot stopping and handling for e.g. 😊

      Joking aside: I hope that, in two years or less, Divock exceeds anything that blueshite is or will be and I hope it's here but equally I hope it's in his goalscoring prowess and not how well he holds the ball up. 🙄

      I think more Fowler than Heskey; if that makes sense. 😎



      I know exactly what you mean, mate. And that's why I find it interesting. It's how everyone compares one player to the next.

      Some people will take a look at a player and can confirm within themselves that that player is never going to be better than the other player. Hasn't got it.

      Other people can drift in between that and have confidence, that with the right support/coaching, the player can succeed better than the comparative one.

      And other people just aren't sure.

      A lot of it depends on what club you're at, too. If you take a club like Everton, the likelihood is that you're going to have the benefit of lots of game time to improve as there's not really going to be a great deal of expectation. Real expectations. Whereas at Liverpool, the pressure is much more immense and intense. There's also the factor of competition for places and where a player is played. At the Burnley home game, I think it was one of only a handful of games where I've seen Origi play in that position which Lukaku has taken up quite a lot of his time with Everton. We usually have Firmino occupying that position, I reckon.

      Our clubs policy of development means Origi will probably stay here for a while, but whether he gets his chance to improve the way Lukaku has at Everton, I don't know.

      For me, there's definitely aspects of Origi's game that's better than Lukaku's. But I'm not sure he will get the time or opportunities to prove he's as good as or a better finisher. The only way he solves that though, is by banging some goals in from the bench (not literally, like) or a maybe wider position. And since his injury from last seasons home derby, he hasn't been great, has he?
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #44: Mar 29, 2017 12:58:16 pm
      Can't see him ever being prolific, that said I wouldn't be looking to ship him out.  At his age he has plenty of time on his side, and if he can still become an important part of the team. It's like to see him work on the dribbling side of his game, with his speed he could destroy defenders if he to ghost past defenders.
      Vicks86
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #45: Mar 31, 2017 09:43:25 am
      No reason to ship him out. We'll definitely have Europe (hopefully CL). Ings and Origi would be reliable alternatives in those games. And if J├╝rgen buys a left winger, which I think he will, I think he'll juggle a lot between 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1, with Origi leading the line in the latter formation.

      I hope we get a versatile forward like Inaki Williams if Sturridge is moved on.
      mcarz
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #46: Mar 31, 2017 09:58:27 am
      No reason to ship him out. We'll definitely have Europe (hopefully CL). Ings and Origi would be reliable alternatives in those games. And if J├╝rgen buys a left winger, which I think he will, I think he'll juggle a lot between 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1, with Origi leading the line in the latter formation.

      I hope we get a versatile forward like Inaki Williams if Sturridge is moved on.

      I don't see a reason to ship him out either but I think this is more to do with Origi wanting more game time elsewhere than Klopp wanting to sell. Think I've already seen comments about how he's staying but can't remember where I saw them.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #47: Mar 31, 2017 04:47:06 pm
      skolRED
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #48: Apr 01, 2017 03:31:33 pm
      He's quality with potential and has time to develop. Hope he stay.
      wellbuilt
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #49: Apr 02, 2017 05:26:07 pm
      i don't think he has shown enough to suggest he can be the no.1 striker.

      i would keep him in the squad for now as i expect others to go (sturry, maybe ings)

      Ribapuru
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #50: Apr 02, 2017 10:54:29 pm
      i don't think he has shown enough to suggest he can be the no.1 striker.

      i would keep him in the squad for now as i expect others to go (sturry, maybe ings)
      I am not sure it matters if he is the number one Striker, we just need 4 good strikers and Origi is a good striker.
      PastorGeek
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #51: Apr 03, 2017 08:59:47 pm
      i forget origi is 21. people are writing him off so quickly. he still has time to develop.
      BostonScouse
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #52: Apr 14, 2017 03:38:12 am
      He's a massively talented young man who knows where the goal is. He's streaky but he scores. Anybody who wants to see the back of him at this point is just being silly.
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #53: Apr 14, 2017 03:48:18 am
      He's a massively talented young man who knows where the goal is. He's streaky but he scores. Anybody who wants to see the back of him at this point is just being silly.

      I've seen massively talented kids at this very club who certainly knew where the goal was.

      He doesn't compare. Simple as.

      He's of use though, 3rd, 4th choice option.

      Not over-hyping the kid is the name of this particular game.
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #54: Apr 18, 2017 09:35:25 am
      Anybody who wants to see the back of him at this point is just being silly.
      He'll only be gone if J├╝rgen wants him gone - clearly taking it as read that J├╝rgen is in control btw.

      We [the club] have proven that we can hold on to the best if we want to even if they want to go. ['til the money is right, obviously]. 😉
      « Last Edit: Apr 18, 2017 09:39:34 am by bad boy bubby »
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #55: Apr 19, 2017 01:49:55 am
      I've seen massively talented kids at this very club who certainly knew where the goal was.
      Origi has been the best 21 year old at Liverpool since Michael Owen. Please don't say you think Sterling was better, he did not know where the goal was many times. Suarez made him look much better than he was. I know he turned 22 yesterday, the last game he played he was 21.
      ozi_wozzy
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #56: May 02, 2017 12:38:20 pm
      I apologize for being a dick towards you too :p

      Different opinions is not the problem, and yeah, sometimes, the silly ones deserves to be laughed and slated at, but I just wanted to get my point across that I didn't say Origi was better than Lukaku or world class, and tbh, if I had, I should expect a barrage of abuse!

      Get a room you two :p

      For what it's worth, I think we need to cut our losses with Origi. Yes he has bags of potential, but for whatever reason, he's just not reaching that level to be a top PL striker, which is what we need. DS looks more dangerous than he does and DS is always injured.

      I feel sorry for him because he actually works his socks off whenever he plays, tracks back constantly and gives it all. But simply doesn't look like he will change games. At 22, DS was looking like a top striker, Origi doesn't sadly :(
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #57: May 02, 2017 01:05:01 pm
      Origi has been the best 21 year old at Liverpool since Michael Owen. Please don't say you think Sterling was better, he did not know where the goal was many times. Suarez made him look much better than he was. I know he turned 22 yesterday, the last game he played he was 21.

      Michael Owen (the young footballer and not the manc) and Origi don't even belong in the same sentence.
      FL Red
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #58: May 02, 2017 01:37:42 pm
      If we were to sell him I certainly wouldn't miss him. I had really high hopes for him but he's just not the caliber we need. Gets the odd good goal here and there and rides that positivity for awhile, but if he were at another club and putting in performances like this, would anyone seriously want him here?
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Divock Origi - Somewhere Else
      Reply #59: May 02, 2017 01:48:55 pm
      If we were to sell him I certainly wouldn't miss him. I had really high hopes for him but he's just not the caliber we need. Gets the odd good goal here and there and rides that positivity for awhile, but if he were at another club and putting in performances like this, would anyone seriously want him here?

      No.

      I'm hoping J├╝rgen sees something we don't because he's being given an awful lot of minutes and with that we should see a big improvement in his development but for me I just don't see where it is.

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