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      Mamadou Sakho to Crystal Palace

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      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #30: Apr 09, 2017 08:48:06 pm
      Luis Suarez bit someone and people were clamouring for him to be forgiven so long as he was still able to play for us.....but because Sakho isn't world class I guess the standard is different.

      Not true mate, I think Sakho is one of the best CBs in the league, but as Si says there's a level of discipline expected. When he was dropped by Brendan I was disappointed with his behaviour on leaving the stadium but he apologised and therefore earned a second chance.

      The thing with apologies they're meaningless unless your actions indicate you were truly sorry and in behaving again in a disrespectful way towards his manager and team-mates then he really nullifies that apology in my book. So I'd understand if J├╝rgen found it very difficult to swallow another plea for forgiveness.

      In terms of Suarez I saw that completely differently, I saw that as a lad who was wound up so tight by all the media attention and the Evra crap that he just snapped a little. I personally see that as less of an offence than what Mama did because in the heat on the moment we all can do a pretty stupid thing but to be late 3 times is consistent and much more time to consider your actions if you know what I mean. Also Suarez was in a strange way of looking at things was doing his 'crime' in the line of duty, where Mama clearly wasn't.

      So to me the two aren't actually comparable, perhaps to you they are.
      FL Red
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #31: Apr 09, 2017 09:22:00 pm
      Not true mate, I think Sakho is one of the best CBs in the league, but as Si says there's a level of discipline expected. When he was dropped by Brendan I was disappointed with his behaviour on leaving the stadium but he apologised and therefore earned a second chance.

      The thing with apologies they're meaningless unless your actions indicate you were truly sorry and in behaving again in a disrespectful way towards his manager and team-mates then he really nullifies that apology in my book. So I'd understand if J├╝rgen found it very difficult to swallow another plea for forgiveness.

      In terms of Suarez I saw that completely differently, I saw that as a lad who was wound up so tight by all the media attention and the Evra crap that he just snapped a little. I personally see that as less of an offence than what Mama did because in the heat on the moment we all can do a pretty stupid thing but to be late 3 times is consistent and much more time to consider your actions if you know what I mean. Also Suarez was in a strange way of looking at things was doing his 'crime' in the line of duty, where Mama clearly wasn't.

      So to me the two aren't actually comparable, perhaps to you they are.

      If I'm being honest, what Suarez did was worse for me. It means much more detrimental to the team and to the club. But, J├╝rgen is going to do what he's going to do. Just seems like a waste to have that good of a player and not be able to figure out how to get him to stay in line.
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #32: Apr 09, 2017 09:27:47 pm
      I think he's put the wrong quotes out, there.

      Seems to be playing on the supporters who want him back and slightly trying to back Klopp into a corner.

      Won't end well.
      -LFC-
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #33: Apr 09, 2017 09:33:32 pm
      The manager doesn't fancy him at all. I get the impression it's about more than "arriving late to training". Attitude in general probably.

      Southampton are a good club, although I think he could get a move to a bigger club (in Italy, just got a feeling). If not and we're in negotiations with the Saints, then it makes eminent sense to bring (Dick) Van Dijk into the bargaining.
      mcarz
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #34: Apr 09, 2017 10:53:12 pm
      I think he's put the wrong quotes out, there.

      Seems to be playing on the supporters who want him back and slightly trying to back Klopp into a corner.

      Won't end well.

      I don't get why he's going on as if all he did wrong was turn up late for training. There's obviously more to it and the more he talks about it the less chance he has of Klopp keeping him around. Just keep quiet, go about your business on the pitch and everything else will fall into place. 
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #35: Apr 09, 2017 11:24:28 pm
      Luis Suarez bit someone and people were clamouring for him to be forgiven so long as he was still able to play for us.....but because Sakho isn't world class I guess the standard is different.

      Suarez does some crazy things, on the pitch that is, and only ever in the heat of a moment.

      Outside of those occasional moments of madness he is a model professional when it comes to training and respecting the manager.

      Sakho lacks both discpline and respect for his manager.

      That's the difference.
      FL Red
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #36: Apr 09, 2017 11:34:28 pm
      Suarez does some crazy things, on the pitch that is, and only ever in the heat of a moment.

      Outside of those occasional moments of madness he is a model professional when it comes to training and respecting the manager.

      Sakho lacks both discpline and respect for his manager.

      That's the difference.

      We don't know what Sakho lacks because we only know the media's side of the story. Sakho's comments still sound like someone trying to rebut what has been reported by the media. I agree he's not coming across well as it sounds like he's trying to stick up for himself via the media, but he's also being lambasted through the media so I'm not going to judge the situation. I still think it would be handled differently if this were one of our star players.
      srslfc
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #37: Apr 10, 2017 12:35:40 am
      We don't know what Sakho lacks because we only know the media's side of the story. Sakho's comments still sound like someone trying to rebut what has been reported by the media. I agree he's not coming across well as it sounds like he's trying to stick up for himself via the media, but he's also being lambasted through the media so I'm not going to judge the situation. I still think it would be handled differently if this were one of our star players.

      Many, myself included, think he is our best CB so you could argue this does involve one of our star players.

      Not as if J├╝rgen is making an example of a Moreno or a Klavan.
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #38: Apr 10, 2017 09:34:01 am
      Because if I'm him I'd want the squad to know that once you cross a line you cross it.

      Fair enough Si but you know and I know that when BR disciplined the same man [for maybe the same issues, who knows?] he was accused of hounding Mama out.

      It's probably very disingenuous to suggest that Sakho hasn't apologised, if we are being honest but here's the rub...

      J├╝rgen does not want him and that's all that matters. Even if you had the odd one or two demand that the (then) boss picked a player he didn't want - think BR and 'super' Mario, if it helps.

      Good enough then; good enough now and vice f**king versa, of course 😉

      « Last Edit: Apr 10, 2017 09:43:08 am by bad boy bubby »
      FL Red
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #39: Apr 10, 2017 02:36:13 pm
      I'd  really like to know what REALLY went on between Sakho and Klopp. Doubt Beale  has any agenda as he's moved on but he's got some interesting comments.....

      http://www.thisisanfield.com/2017/04/ex-coach-liverpool-still-need-mamadou-sakho-reveals-players-outstanding-attitude/
      mcarz
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #40: Apr 10, 2017 04:24:01 pm
      I'd really like to know what REALLY went on between Sakho and Klopp. Doubt Beale  has any agenda as he's moved on but he's got some interesting comments.....

      http://www.thisisanfield.com/2017/04/ex-coach-liverpool-still-need-mamadou-sakho-reveals-players-outstanding-attitude/

      It doesn't surprise me that Sakho behaved like that when he was with the under-23's but that doesn't mean he didn't do something wrong when he and Klopp fell out. Beale wouldn't have known anything about it and it was probably right that he wasn't involved.

      I just wish the media would leave the issue alone or Sakho would stop finding it necessary to comment on the situation (whichever it is) because it's going to result in Sakho leaving.

      AZPatriot
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #41: Apr 10, 2017 06:39:36 pm
      I'd  really like to know what REALLY went on between Sakho and Klopp. Doubt Beale  has any agenda as he's moved on but he's got some interesting comments.....

      http://www.thisisanfield.com/2017/04/ex-coach-liverpool-still-need-mamadou-sakho-reveals-players-outstanding-attitude/

      It's not just being late for practice (on more than one occasion), it was also late for the plane, late for a team dinner, f**king off in San Francisco.

      I don't think he is a bad fella but I think he has crossed that line of being unprofessional more than once; and even though the ban was lifted he still took a substance without letting the team know.

      It might just be the gaffer has had enough and an example needed to be made for the benefit of the whole club.
      Alfie2510
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #42: Apr 10, 2017 06:46:09 pm
      It's not just being late for practice (on more than one occasion), it was also late for the plane, late for a team dinner, f**king off in San Francisco.

      I don't think he is a bad fella but I think he has crossed that line of being unprofessional more than once; and even though the ban was lifted he still took a substance without letting the team know.

      It might just be the gaffer has had enough and an example needed to be made for the benefit of the whole club.


      It will stem from the diet pills debacle, I'm sure Klopp would have been incredulous one of his players was taking supplements without running it past the medical team. Who knows the difference Sakho may have made against Sevilla Kolo was blowing out his arse end that second half and can't get a game for Celtic at the moment. If after that he's then reported with anything short an exemplary attitude sparks we're going to fly...shame still
      Swab
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #43: Apr 10, 2017 06:50:05 pm
      People change, especially after a harsh lesson like the one Klopp has given Sakho.

      He's too good for Palace, that's for sure, and I'd have no problems with him coming back as long as he behaved.
      mcarz
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #44: Apr 10, 2017 07:03:01 pm
      People change, especially after a harsh lesson like the one Klopp has given Sakho.

      He's too good for Palace, that's for sure, and I'd have no problems with him coming back as long as he behaved.

      The thing is, he was like this at PSG so he hasn't changed much really since his early days there. I'd have no problem with him coming back but he has to find a way to keep the weight off in the long term too - that seems to have been a problem for him since forever. 
      nelioneil
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #45: Apr 10, 2017 07:09:28 pm
      The thing is, he was like this at PSG so he hasn't changed much really since his early days there. I'd have no problem with him coming back but he has to find a way to keep the weight off in the long term too - that seems to have been a problem for him since forever. 

      Exactly, and I'm quite sure Rodgers had problems with him too.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #46: Apr 11, 2017 09:35:17 am
      There is no doubt Sakho has looked good at Palace, all action with last ditch clearances.
      And here is the issue of course he will look good in a Allerdici set up but we don't play that way, our CB's probably have it much tougher than most teams apart from City as we are so attacking.

      Even though there can't be much doubt Sakho is better than Lovren and Klavan I suspect he would still have the same issues he has had with us over the last 2-3 seasons, where he has been one of the main CB's contributing to us conceding 50 goals a season!

      Although from a comedy point I sort of miss his 10mins of madness every game where he would completely lose the plot  :D
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #47: Apr 11, 2017 10:00:06 am
      There is no doubt in my mind that we have missed big Mama.

      And, it's been pretty costly too.
      srslfc
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #48: Apr 11, 2017 10:11:20 am
      There is no doubt in my mind that we have missed big Mama.

      And, it's been pretty costly too.

      No doubt in my mind either Beer.

      If you're J├╝rgen though do you forgive and forget or follow through and sell a player you feel is a disruptive member of the squad?
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #49: Apr 11, 2017 10:34:08 am
      No doubt in my mind either Beer.

      If you're J├╝rgen though do you forgive and forget or follow through and sell a player you feel is a disruptive member of the squad?

      That's the 64 million dollar question srslfc.

      We don't really know too much other than the speculated stories, and there could even be more to it than that.

      It looks as though Sahko has pissed Klopp off enough to warrant him surplus to requirements, at the same time it also looks as though Klopp's cut his nose off to spite his face.

      Both have lost out IMO. Nobody comes out a winner.

      I would like to believe that Klopp could find it in himself to give Sahko another go, I mean, it's not like he's eaten anyone  ;) and Sahko if given the chance could now pull his head in.

      Not too many left footed CB's about, and for me it's better the devil you know, this devil being quite a good CB who would look the fit alongside Matip.
      « Last Edit: Apr 11, 2017 10:55:08 am by Beerbelly »
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #50: Apr 11, 2017 10:39:38 am
      People change, especially after a harsh lesson like the one Klopp has given Sakho.

      He's too good for Palace, that's for sure, and I'd have no problems with him coming back as long as he behaved.

      Everyone deserves a second chance.

      Klopp should give him one more chance to come back and proves he can behave professionally.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #51: Apr 11, 2017 10:47:09 am
      Everyone deserves a second chance.

      Klopp should give him one more chance to come back and proves he can behave professionally.

      Wasn't he on his second chance once Brendan dropped him and he stormed out of the stadium.

      Didn't he then wreck that second chance by using fat burners and therefore miss out on the Europa League final, which could well have cost us? Granted he got off with that but not declaring it to the club doctors put us in a terrible position and I think we'd all agree he was more fortunate to get off than he was calculated.

      Then he was late for three separate pre-season appointments.

      So to me he's had more than just a 2nd chance.

      I get where people are coming from with regards us struggling with Klavan and Lovren but their struggles are certainly clouding things. The reality is that neither Sakho's talent nor our struggles should be the issue, it should be can we trust him and will he actually accept and follow the rules. Past performance suggest not, the bigger gamble would be keeping him imo, guess we'll find out pretty soon.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #52: Apr 11, 2017 11:09:12 am
      I think Sakho's working hard as he's been instructed to do, now he's extending the olive branch for reconciliation, I can see Klopp sitting him down, having a talk and making a decision once he's back with us.

      Things will have cooled down, anything could happen yet.
      mcarz
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #53: Apr 11, 2017 11:36:18 am
      Wasn't he on his second chance once Brendan dropped him and he stormed out of the stadium.

      Didn't he then wreck that second chance by using fat burners and therefore miss out on the Europa League final, which could well have cost us? Granted he got off with that but not declaring it to the club doctors put us in a terrible position and I think we'd all agree he was more fortunate to get off than he was calculated.

      Then he was late for three separate pre-season appointments.

      So to me he's had more than just a 2nd chance.

      I get where people are coming from with regards us struggling with Klavan and Lovren but their struggles are certainly clouding things. The reality is that neither Sakho's talent nor our struggles should be the issue, it should be can we trust him and will he actually accept and follow the rules. Past performance suggest not, the bigger gamble would be keeping him imo, guess we'll find out pretty soon.

      This is something I don't get when I see "he deserves a second chance". He's had about 6 and he still decides to run his mouth to whoever will listen on bloody Twitter and and in interviews whilst protesting his innocence. I find it seriously hard to believe that Klopp would do all this to a player who has done nothing wrong.

      I like him as a player in regards to how good he is on the ball for a defender and how dominant he can be at times but let's not forget how bad he was in some games for us. If Klopp gives him yet another chance then I'll welcome him back but if Klopp decides to sell him then I'll support that decision.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #54: Apr 11, 2017 11:39:02 am
      I wonder how Klopp would've handled the Suarez situations, would he have stood by him like Kenny and risk the Wrath of FSG?, or would he have shipped him out? I honestly don't know.
      I really hope they're a way back for Mama, otherwise we are going to need to find a replacement of much better quality than Lovren and Klavan. Only J├╝rgen knows what his plans are, and I'll trust his decision.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #55: Apr 11, 2017 12:07:47 pm
      Here we go we always have this same narrative when average players have been absent suddenly get elevated to some sort of World class status!

      What bit of he has been part of our comical defending for the last few years do people find hard to understand?

      Yes the defence that has conceded 50 + goals every year he has been here!
      Dadorious
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #56: Apr 11, 2017 12:42:39 pm
      Here we go we always have this same narrative when average players have been absent suddenly get elevated to some sort of World class status!

      What bit of he has been part of our comical defending for the last few years do people find hard to understand?

      Yes the defence that has conceded 50 + goals every year he has been here!

      Spot on.

      Been reading that we wouldn't have had our early slump at the beginning of the year with him in the side.

      Bollocks.

      In addition to shoddy defending we couldn't fukn score if our lives depended on it.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #57: Apr 11, 2017 12:59:06 pm
      Here we go we always have this same narrative when average players have been absent suddenly get elevated to some sort of World class status!

      What bit of he has been part of our comical defending for the last few years do people find hard to understand?

      Yes the defence that has conceded 50 + goals every year he has been here!

      He's clearly better than Lovren and Klavan, not saying he's the answer to our defensive problems, that's as much to do with coaching and tactics as the personnel, but I'd sooner replace lovren and klavan than Sakho.
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #58: Apr 11, 2017 12:59:36 pm
      Here we go we always have this same narrative when average players have been absent suddenly get elevated to some sort of World class status!

      What bit of he has been part of our comical defending for the last few years do people find hard to understand?

      Yes the defence that has conceded 50 + goals every year he has been here!

      Who's elevated him to world class status then?

      Is he better than Klavan, yes.
      Is he better than Lovren, arguable but I'd say he is.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #59: Apr 11, 2017 01:41:38 pm
      Who's elevated him to world class status then?

      Is he better than Klavan, yes.
      Is he better than Lovren, arguable but I'd say he is.

      Well the numerous comparisons to how Klopp would have handled the Suarez situation suggests posters hold Sakho to the same level of performer.

      Would having Sakho in place of Lovren have propelled us to challenging Chelsea?

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