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      Mamadou Sakho to Crystal Palace

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      HScRed1
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #46: Apr 11, 2017 09:35:17 am
      There is no doubt Sakho has looked good at Palace, all action with last ditch clearances.
      And here is the issue of course he will look good in a Allerdici set up but we don't play that way, our CB's probably have it much tougher than most teams apart from City as we are so attacking.

      Even though there can't be much doubt Sakho is better than Lovren and Klavan I suspect he would still have the same issues he has had with us over the last 2-3 seasons, where he has been one of the main CB's contributing to us conceding 50 goals a season!

      Although from a comedy point I sort of miss his 10mins of madness every game where he would completely lose the plot  :D
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #47: Apr 11, 2017 10:00:06 am
      There is no doubt in my mind that we have missed big Mama.

      And, it's been pretty costly too.
      srslfc
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #48: Apr 11, 2017 10:11:20 am
      There is no doubt in my mind that we have missed big Mama.

      And, it's been pretty costly too.

      No doubt in my mind either Beer.

      If you're Jürgen though do you forgive and forget or follow through and sell a player you feel is a disruptive member of the squad?
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #49: Apr 11, 2017 10:34:08 am
      No doubt in my mind either Beer.

      If you're Jürgen though do you forgive and forget or follow through and sell a player you feel is a disruptive member of the squad?

      That's the 64 million dollar question srslfc.

      We don't really know too much other than the speculated stories, and there could even be more to it than that.

      It looks as though Sahko has pissed Klopp off enough to warrant him surplus to requirements, at the same time it also looks as though Klopp's cut his nose off to spite his face.

      Both have lost out IMO. Nobody comes out a winner.

      I would like to believe that Klopp could find it in himself to give Sahko another go, I mean, it's not like he's eaten anyone  ;) and Sahko if given the chance could now pull his head in.

      Not too many left footed CB's about, and for me it's better the devil you know, this devil being quite a good CB who would look the fit alongside Matip.
      « Last Edit: Apr 11, 2017 10:55:08 am by Beerbelly »
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #50: Apr 11, 2017 10:39:38 am
      People change, especially after a harsh lesson like the one Klopp has given Sakho.

      He's too good for Palace, that's for sure, and I'd have no problems with him coming back as long as he behaved.

      Everyone deserves a second chance.

      Klopp should give him one more chance to come back and proves he can behave professionally.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #51: Apr 11, 2017 10:47:09 am
      Everyone deserves a second chance.

      Klopp should give him one more chance to come back and proves he can behave professionally.

      Wasn't he on his second chance once Brendan dropped him and he stormed out of the stadium.

      Didn't he then wreck that second chance by using fat burners and therefore miss out on the Europa League final, which could well have cost us? Granted he got off with that but not declaring it to the club doctors put us in a terrible position and I think we'd all agree he was more fortunate to get off than he was calculated.

      Then he was late for three separate pre-season appointments.

      So to me he's had more than just a 2nd chance.

      I get where people are coming from with regards us struggling with Klavan and Lovren but their struggles are certainly clouding things. The reality is that neither Sakho's talent nor our struggles should be the issue, it should be can we trust him and will he actually accept and follow the rules. Past performance suggest not, the bigger gamble would be keeping him imo, guess we'll find out pretty soon.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #52: Apr 11, 2017 11:09:12 am
      I think Sakho's working hard as he's been instructed to do, now he's extending the olive branch for reconciliation, I can see Klopp sitting him down, having a talk and making a decision once he's back with us.

      Things will have cooled down, anything could happen yet.
      mcarz
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #53: Apr 11, 2017 11:36:18 am
      Wasn't he on his second chance once Brendan dropped him and he stormed out of the stadium.

      Didn't he then wreck that second chance by using fat burners and therefore miss out on the Europa League final, which could well have cost us? Granted he got off with that but not declaring it to the club doctors put us in a terrible position and I think we'd all agree he was more fortunate to get off than he was calculated.

      Then he was late for three separate pre-season appointments.

      So to me he's had more than just a 2nd chance.

      I get where people are coming from with regards us struggling with Klavan and Lovren but their struggles are certainly clouding things. The reality is that neither Sakho's talent nor our struggles should be the issue, it should be can we trust him and will he actually accept and follow the rules. Past performance suggest not, the bigger gamble would be keeping him imo, guess we'll find out pretty soon.

      This is something I don't get when I see "he deserves a second chance". He's had about 6 and he still decides to run his mouth to whoever will listen on bloody Twitter and and in interviews whilst protesting his innocence. I find it seriously hard to believe that Klopp would do all this to a player who has done nothing wrong.

      I like him as a player in regards to how good he is on the ball for a defender and how dominant he can be at times but let's not forget how bad he was in some games for us. If Klopp gives him yet another chance then I'll welcome him back but if Klopp decides to sell him then I'll support that decision.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #54: Apr 11, 2017 11:39:02 am
      I wonder how Klopp would've handled the Suarez situations, would he have stood by him like Kenny and risk the Wrath of FSG?, or would he have shipped him out? I honestly don't know.
      I really hope they're a way back for Mama, otherwise we are going to need to find a replacement of much better quality than Lovren and Klavan. Only Jürgen knows what his plans are, and I'll trust his decision.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #55: Apr 11, 2017 12:07:47 pm
      Here we go we always have this same narrative when average players have been absent suddenly get elevated to some sort of World class status!

      What bit of he has been part of our comical defending for the last few years do people find hard to understand?

      Yes the defence that has conceded 50 + goals every year he has been here!
      Dadorious
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #56: Apr 11, 2017 12:42:39 pm
      Here we go we always have this same narrative when average players have been absent suddenly get elevated to some sort of World class status!

      What bit of he has been part of our comical defending for the last few years do people find hard to understand?

      Yes the defence that has conceded 50 + goals every year he has been here!

      Spot on.

      Been reading that we wouldn't have had our early slump at the beginning of the year with him in the side.

      Bollocks.

      In addition to shoddy defending we couldn't fukn score if our lives depended on it.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #57: Apr 11, 2017 12:59:06 pm
      Here we go we always have this same narrative when average players have been absent suddenly get elevated to some sort of World class status!

      What bit of he has been part of our comical defending for the last few years do people find hard to understand?

      Yes the defence that has conceded 50 + goals every year he has been here!

      He's clearly better than Lovren and Klavan, not saying he's the answer to our defensive problems, that's as much to do with coaching and tactics as the personnel, but I'd sooner replace lovren and klavan than Sakho.
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #58: Apr 11, 2017 12:59:36 pm
      Here we go we always have this same narrative when average players have been absent suddenly get elevated to some sort of World class status!

      What bit of he has been part of our comical defending for the last few years do people find hard to understand?

      Yes the defence that has conceded 50 + goals every year he has been here!

      Who's elevated him to world class status then?

      Is he better than Klavan, yes.
      Is he better than Lovren, arguable but I'd say he is.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #59: Apr 11, 2017 01:41:38 pm
      Who's elevated him to world class status then?

      Is he better than Klavan, yes.
      Is he better than Lovren, arguable but I'd say he is.

      Well the numerous comparisons to how Klopp would have handled the Suarez situation suggests posters hold Sakho to the same level of performer.

      Would having Sakho in place of Lovren have propelled us to challenging Chelsea?

      Beerbelly
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #60: Apr 11, 2017 01:52:17 pm
      Well the numerous comparisons to how Klopp would have handled the Suarez situation suggests posters hold Sakho to the same level of performer.

      So, nobody has elevated him to world class status then.

      Talking of how 'situations' are handled does not correlate to the ability of players, nor indeed does it entail Sahko being a worldie.

      Quote
      .Would having Sakho in place of Lovren have propelled us to challenging Chelsea? 

      You know what, we'll never know. But it wouldn't have made us weaker that's for sure.

      Klopp doesn't want him, fine. He now has to find a better replacement tis all.
      « Last Edit: Apr 11, 2017 01:57:34 pm by Beerbelly »
      Swab
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #61: Apr 11, 2017 02:05:33 pm
      There are very few real defenders around these days, players whose instinct is to protect and put their body on the line.
      Add to that the current fashion for playing it out from the back (for the top sides), and what you get is players who are footballers first and defenders second, who lack that instinct the best defenders had in the past.

      Sakho is a good defender and a much better footballer than some give him credit for, and although I think we would be better with him than without him, Klopp is the one who makes the decision, and I'm more than happy to defer to his judgement.
      bigmick
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #62: Apr 11, 2017 02:26:04 pm
      It's the managers job to "manage" the players, and if he deems them to be "unmanageable" then to replace them with players of AT LEAST equal ability.

      I don't really mind which option of the two above Jürgen goes for with Mama. Just so long as the "replace him with someone who turns up on time but isn't anywhere near so good" option is completely disregarded. We've proven with Klavan (who I actually like as a good pro and I've no doubt he turns up on time) and we've missed the fella with leadership qualities and the dodgy alarm clock.

      People BTW saying "he was part of the defence which conceded 50 goals" so we should get rid,  will presumeably soon be campaigning yo get rid of Matip. Such knee-jerkery and nonsense rarely works. Players who came within a slip of winning the league and got to two cup finals as well as two cup semi finals oughtn't to be discarded as lightly as many want to with our first choice centre halves at the time.

      Sakho is proving every week at Palace that he is a top defender, far far better than many gave him the credit for being.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #63: Apr 11, 2017 02:45:08 pm
      It's the managers job to "manage" the players, and if he deems them to be "unmanageable" then to replace them with players of AT LEAST equal ability.

      I don't really mind which option of the two above Jürgen goes for with Mama. Just so long as the "replace him with someone who turns up on time but isn't anywhere near so good" option is completely disregarded. We've proven with Klavan (who I actually like as a good pro and I've no doubt he turns up on time) and we've missed the fella with leadership qualities and the dodgy alarm clock.

      People BTW saying "he was part of the defence which conceded 50 goals" so we should get rid,  will presumeably soon be campaigning yo get rid of Matip. Such knee-jerkery and nonsense rarely works. Players who came within a slip of winning the league and got to two cup finals as well as two cup semi finals oughtn't to be discarded as lightly as many want to with our first choice centre halves at the time.

      Sakho is proving every week at Palace that he is a top defender, far far better than many gave him the credit for being.

      So saying defenders that concede 50 goals a season are not great defenders is now some how knee jerking?

      Unless of course you are suggesting it is issues with Rodgers and Klopp because look how great he is at Palace!

      It's pretty plain for anybody to see why any CB will look better at Palace than with us, the demands on a CB playing for us are completely different.

      I want somebody better than Sakho and Lovren partnering Matip - yeah I like to knee jerk  :D

      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #64: Apr 11, 2017 02:51:42 pm
      So saying defenders that concede 50 goals a season are not great defenders is now some how knee jerking?

      Unless of course you are suggesting it is issues with Rodgers and Klopp because look how great he is at Palace!

      It's pretty plain for anybody to see why any CB will look better at Palace than with us, the demands on a CB playing for us are completely different.



      Can't just blame Sakho though for us conceding 50+ goals, it's the whole unit plus the goalie. What do we do sell Clyne, Lovren, Milner, Moreno and Mignolet too? How much would it cost to buy a whole new defence? Maybe one option is to bring him back, let him form a partnership with either Matip or Lovren and instead of shelling stupid money on a centre-back, we can then go out and spend on a very good striker, which we're still short of at the moment.

      bigmick
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #65: Apr 11, 2017 03:30:32 pm
      Can't just blame Sakho though for us conceding 50+ goals, it's the whole unit plus the goalie. What do we do sell Clyne, Lovren, Milner, Moreno and Mignolet too? How much would it cost to buy a whole new defence? Maybe one option is to bring him back, let him form a partnership with either Matip or Lovren and instead of shelling stupid money on a centre-back, we can then go out and spend on a very good striker, which we're still short of at the moment.



      Took the words right out of my mouth (as Meatloaf once said). Both under Rodgers and Jürgen, given the amount of players we throw forward ANY centre half would struggle to look good.

      At Chelsea they play three centre halves and sit Kante and Matic in front of them with Courtois in behind. Under those circumstances even David Luis looks like a good defender, so would I!
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #66: Apr 11, 2017 04:17:22 pm
      Sakho at Palace. Played 6, Won 5, clean sheets 4! Coincidence? Maybe, but having seen his performances he should get some of the credit, also Palaces player of the month.
      harrydunn08
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #67: Apr 11, 2017 04:32:17 pm
      Sakho at Palace. Played 6, Won 5, clean sheets 4! Coincidence? Maybe, but having seen his performances he should get some of the credit, also Palaces player of the month.

      I don't think many have doubts about Sakho's ability.  The questions come in over attitude and whether the relationship between him and Klopp is salvageable.  I'd personally love him to be here next season, starting alongside Matip and moving the "Future Captain" back to the bench, but it may not be on the cards.  If Klopp is intent on selling him, then he isn't doing his transfer value any harm with the performances he's been putting in!!
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Mamadou Sakho to (Southampton)
      Reply #68: Apr 11, 2017 05:29:49 pm

      You know what, we'll never know. But it wouldn't have made us weaker that's for sure

      It's not for sure at all. Despite a few good games, Sakho hardly set the world alight playing for us. We were no better off than what we are now. can't say we will never know if we would have been better off with him but certainly wouldn't have been worse off because for all we know we might have been worse off. It's a situation that hasn't happened so there's no point ruling one out but not the other.

      I'm not fussed how he's getting on at Palace because there is a massive difference in how they play to how we do. They have 6 at back virtually since Fat Sam took over and it's a well balanced 6. There is more cover for Sakho or one of the others if someone cocks up. It's completely different to how we play, we won't be playing 6 at the back but maybe Sakho is much more suited to a team that plays like that as opposed to how we play. His role is completely different to how he would have been expected to play for us.
      « Last Edit: Apr 11, 2017 05:34:09 pm by 7-King Kenny-7 »

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