Liverpool 2-2 AFC Bournemouth: In game and Post Match discussion

Agree with most of this, especially the indictment of Origi. He really just wasn't mobile enough  and he doesn't even anticipate as well as Studge does. With his toolset, Origi should basically be bullying the opposition ala Lukaku (as long as he isn't against Lovren ).

I'm not Origi's biggest fan. Do I think he'll become world class, no. Do I think he'll become our #1 striker, no.

He has many shortcomings, and the lack of bottle he showed from Matip's header when he saw the white's of the goal post, summed him up.

That said, and this is the sadder indictment, he has shown more end product in the last what, 130 minutes of football than Roberto Firmino has done in ~810 minutes of football. We need goals, hook or by crook and had Origi not scored last night we could have easily lost that 2-1. As the probability of Firmino coming up trumps is very low. No matter how 'easy' his goal was, Origi had to be in that position to score and you can bet your bottom dollar that if he wouldn't have been on the pitch Gini would have been blindly crossing that ball to nobody.

So, while Origi isn't the answer, I'd sooner give him the run in that position than our blank firing Brazillian - and that clearly isn't saying a lot about the latter. It's a bit rich, considering he has hardly played, to come in for his first full 90 and achieve more than what Bobby has achieved since his brace against Swansea back in f**k knows when. Mind you, he has just overtaken Bobby in the goal scoring charts, another statistic damning the player who's played #9 more than anyone else this season.

Origi, wasn't our issue last night, and that suggestion is utter tripe. Our issue last night was that Klopp had nobody to call upon from the bench. He opted to go pragmatic because he obviously felt he couldn't rely on Sturridge, and it didn't work. That was our issue.

That's all good info but I've got nothing to compare those stats too.  How many goals generally are scored through great play and how many through some sort of error?

When we score a goal we may label it as 'great' but I'm sure the opposition fans would be picking out it as some kind of defensive error.

Where we can agree is that 39 goals is way too many to concede.  Top teams should be limiting their goals conceded to a goal per game or less.

Like i said it's my own opinion of those goals. But give it a go and watch them all yourself and see what you come up with.

If i get the time i'll try put them up on here

I'm not Origi's biggest fan. Do I think he'll become world class, no. Do I think he'll become our #1 striker, no.

He has many shortcomings, and the lack of bottle he showed from Matip's header when he saw the white's of the goal post, summed him up.

That said, and this is the sadder indictment, he has shown more end product in the last what, 130 minutes of football than Roberto Firmino has done in ~810 minutes of football. We need goals, hook or by crook and had Origi not scored last night we could have easily lost that 2-1. As the probability of Firmino coming up trumps is very low. No matter how 'easy' his goal was, Origi had to be in that position to score and you can bet your bottom dollar that if he wouldn't have been on the pitch Gini would have been blindly crossing that ball to nobody.

So, while Origi isn't the answer, I'd sooner give him the run in that position than our blank firing Brazillian - and that clearly isn't saying a lot about the latter. It's a bit rich, considering he has hardly played, to come in for his first full 90 and achieve more than what Bobby has achieved since his brace against Swansea back in f**k knows when. Mind you, he has just overtaken Bobby in the goal scoring charts, another statistic damning the player who's played #9 more than anyone else this season.

Origi, wasn't our issue last night, and that suggestion is utter tripe. Our issue last night was that Klopp had nobody to call upon from the bench. He opted to go pragmatic because he obviously felt he couldn't rely on Sturridge, and it didn't work. That was our issue.

No Origi wasn't our issue, but he could have mitigated our deficiency if he was a better striker. That's my point. We need someone that will stop at nothing to get a goal.

Well that was a kick in the nuts for sure.

See a few putting the blame on Klopp for being too pragmatic yet not so long ago there were plenty of calls for him to be more pragmatic.

We should have put the game to bed earlier, we had our chances and for me Origi was a big issue. Sure he scored his goal but other than that I thought he had a very poor game indeed. He should have had more, the cross from Clyne, Origi should be there, the one from Matip's flick on at the far post, he should be steering that in also. Sheer lack of anticipation or natural instinct to be in the right place cost us.

Those who counter that with the goal he scored really don't understand the point I'm making, that cross made the goal, he basically just stood there and waited for that one. On the other two chances we need a striker with a goal scoring instinct. If you don't have that then you have to bring so much more to the game to make your place viable and what else did he bring, nothing I'm afraid. Created nothing, sure he fights for every ball, but so would any average player. This game was a further nail in his career for me because without that instinct or adding a lot more to his game then I can't see a future for him here.

At the back I thought the two we conceded were very poor goals. Sure blame Jürgen all you like but can you really legislate for someone as good on the ball as Gini doing that? I think more predictable was Migs decision to dive in feet first where had he gone in like a brave keeper then he wouldn't have left half the goal for the lad to simply slot home in. Migs failed to bail his team-mate out who made an uncharacteristic mistake. Second goal Klavan actually loses sight of the ball and goes looking for it when it's really down at his feet, I'd say unlucky and unfortunate but no doubt he's had a bit of a rough ride in here when I read back in a minute. No surprise Migs couldn't bail him out either, although on this occasion it would have been much harder and understandable he didn't make this save.

Would have been a huge 3 points, as it is we've opened the door again for those chasing us. Going to be a tough 7 games where I think we need to win a minimum of 5 of them, let's start that at Stoke on Saturday.

I'm astounded Mignolet has gotten away with another sub par performance that had the crowd and the team on edge. Carra called it in commentary - from the moment Mignolet started dribbling the whole atmosphere in the stadium changed. The nervousness transmitted to the players and from that point onwards their was 3-4 poor errors committed that climaxed with Gini's mistake. At the end of the day, the players are conductors of the atmosphere and what they do dictates the feeling that is sent out onto the pitch by the supporters.  It is also ridiculous that teams only need one shot on goal or two shots on goal all match to seize victory or a draw.

And I'm afraid to say, seeing as Klopp signed him onto a longer term contract last year the buck stops with him. He's not a Premier League goalkeeper and to be frank I don't think he's even a number 2 keeper. The sooner we get rid of him the sooner we start to improve at the back. He is the common denominator in 4 years of insulting defending.

I'm not Origi's biggest fan. Do I think he'll become world class, no. Do I think he'll become our #1 striker, no.

He has many shortcomings, and the lack of bottle he showed from Matip's header when he saw the white's of the goal post, summed him up.

That said, and this is the sadder indictment, he has shown more end product in the last what, 130 minutes of football than Roberto Firmino has done in ~810 minutes of football. We need goals, hook or by crook and had Origi not scored last night we could have easily lost that 2-1. As the probability of Firmino coming up trumps is very low. No matter how 'easy' his goal was, Origi had to be in that position to score and you can bet your bottom dollar that if he wouldn't have been on the pitch Gini would have been blindly crossing that ball to nobody.

So, while Origi isn't the answer, I'd sooner give him the run in that position than our blank firing Brazillian - and that clearly isn't saying a lot about the latter. It's a bit rich, considering he has hardly played, to come in for his first full 90 and achieve more than what Bobby has achieved since his brace against Swansea back in f**k knows when. Mind you, he has just overtaken Bobby in the goal scoring charts, another statistic damning the player who's played #9 more than anyone else this season.

Origi, wasn't our issue last night, and that suggestion is utter tripe. Our issue last night was that Klopp had nobody to call upon from the bench. He opted to go pragmatic because he obviously felt he couldn't rely on Sturridge, and it didn't work. That was our issue.

Yes I'm afraid when your number 9 has scored 9 goals all season you are up against it. Players such as Deli Alli have 15 goals, Jermain Defoe 14, Joshua king of all people has 12. Then you are into players who have had an absolutely disastrous season, Jamie Vardy for all his problems (playing for Leicester being one of them) has 10, even the much maligned Christian Benteke has 11. Obviously we're not even talking here about the Lukaku's of this world (21) or Harry Kane (19).

No, Bobby is an issue. I know it's a bit of an elephant in the room just as well as I know that he does run around a lot, but you need strikers to be more prolific than that.   

I'm astounded Mignolet has gotten away with another sub par performance that had the crowd and the team on edge. Carra called it in commentary - from the moment Mignolet started dribbling the whole atmosphere in the stadium changed. The nervousness transmitted to the players and from that point onwards their was 3-4 poor errors committed that climaxed with Gini's mistake. At the end of the day, the players are conductors of the atmosphere and what they do dictates the feeling that is sent out onto the pitch by the supporters.  It is also ridiculous that teams only need one shot on goal or two shots on goal all match to seize victory or a draw.

And I'm afraid to say, seeing as Klopp signed him onto a longer term contract last year the buck stops with him.

As I'm sure you're more than aware mate I've called for Migs to be replaced for years so I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. I would say in his defence that he had become better up until a few games ago, but even then the improvement was marginal.

I'd have liked to have seen Karius re-introduced long ago but if Klopp doesn't now see him as the answer (would call into question his transfer in the first place) then we simply must buy another keeper in the summer. For far too long we've been handicapped by this shots to goal ratio. It was most astounding last year when Jürgen first came in, we actually were defending very well indeed but conceding just the odd shot from outside the box or from poor angles and they were going in time and time again. It became a 50/50 whether any shot, any at all, would go in against us. He's currenlty at 1.22 shots saved per goal scored, that is a downright abysmal record and really does make me laugh when people say "he's a great shot stopper" which people still maintain to today. His long run average over the time he's been with us is probably one of the worst, if not the worst in the entire league.

So yes, before I go off on another Mig rant, I do agree and certainly Jürgen bares plenty of the blame in this regard. In terms of back-up I thought Mignolet was ok, nothing great but compared to what we've had before acceptable for a year or two. As starter, absolutely not and if Jürgen doesn't have faith in Karius then this should be the first position sorted in the upcoming window.

As I'm sure you're more than aware mate I've called for Migs to be replaced for years so I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. I would say in his defence that he had become better up until a few games ago, but even then the improvement was marginal.

I'd have liked to have seen Karius re-introduced long ago but if Klopp doesn't now see him as the answer (would call into question his transfer in the first place) then we simply must buy another keeper in the summer. For far too long we've been handicapped by this shots to goal ratio. It was most astounding last year when Jürgen first came in, we actually were defending very well indeed but conceding just the odd shot from outside the box or from poor angles and they were going in time and time again. It became a 50/50 whether any shot, any at all, would go in against us. He's currenlty at 1.22 shots saved per goal scored, that is a downright abysmal record and really does make me laugh when people say "he's a great shot stopper" which people still maintain to today. His long run average over the time he's been with us is probably one of the worst, if not the worst in the entire league.

So yes, before I go off on another Mig rant, I do agree and certainly Jürgen bares plenty of the blame in this regard. In terms of back-up I thought Mignolet was ok, nothing great but compared to what we've had before acceptable for a year or two. As starter, absolutely not and if Jürgen doesn't have faith in Karius then this should be the first position sorted in the upcoming window.

Totally agree. I wonder how we'd have fared over the last four seasons had we had De Gea in goal. We'd have won the league at least once, put it that way.

As I'm sure you're more than aware mate I've called for Migs to be replaced for years so I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. I would say in his defence that he had become better up until a few games ago, but even then the improvement was marginal.

I'd have liked to have seen Karius re-introduced long ago but if Klopp doesn't now see him as the answer (would call into question his transfer in the first place) then we simply must buy another keeper in the summer. For far too long we've been handicapped by this shots to goal ratio. It was most astounding last year when Jürgen first came in, we actually were defending very well indeed but conceding just the odd shot from outside the box or from poor angles and they were going in time and time again. It became a 50/50 whether any shot, any at all, would go in against us. He's currenlty at 1.22 shots saved per goal scored, that is a downright abysmal record and really does make me laugh when people say "he's a great shot stopper" which people still maintain to today. His long run average over the time he's been with us is probably one of the worst, if not the worst in the entire league.

So yes, before I go off on another Mig rant, I do agree and certainly Jürgen bares plenty of the blame in this regard. In terms of back-up I thought Mignolet was ok, nothing great but compared to what we've had before acceptable for a year or two. As starter, absolutely not and if Jürgen doesn't have faith in Karius then this should be the first position sorted in the upcoming window.

That IS F***ing abysmal.

Might have to go back and watch some season reviews from a decade ago or so ago to remind me what a great Liverpool goalkeeper looked like. Because nothing else will take away the sour taste in my mouth when having to watch that Belgian Frank F***ing Spencer week in week out.

As I'm sure you're more than aware mate I've called for Migs to be replaced for years so I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. I would say in his defence that he had become better up until a few games ago, but even then the improvement was marginal.

I'd have liked to have seen Karius re-introduced long ago but if Klopp doesn't now see him as the answer (would call into question his transfer in the first place) then we simply must buy another keeper in the summer. For far too long we've been handicapped by this shots to goal ratio. It was most astounding last year when Jürgen first came in, we actually were defending very well indeed but conceding just the odd shot from outside the box or from poor angles and they were going in time and time again. It became a 50/50 whether any shot, any at all, would go in against us. He's currenlty at 1.22 shots saved per goal scored, that is a downright abysmal record and really does make me laugh when people say "he's a great shot stopper" which people still maintain to today. His long run average over the time he's been with us is probably one of the worst, if not the worst in the entire league.

So yes, before I go off on another Mig rant, I do agree and certainly Jürgen bares plenty of the blame in this regard. In terms of back-up I thought Mignolet was ok, nothing great but compared to what we've had before acceptable for a year or two. As starter, absolutely not and if Jürgen doesn't have faith in Karius then this should be the first position sorted in the upcoming window.

Spot on. Has Mignolet ever had a " None shall pass " game for us ? No. F***ing about at the start last night just proves he hasn't learned a thing.
Also. He should of been in the middle of his goal last night for their second , he just opened up the whole of his right side.

Totally agree. I wonder how we'd have fared over the last four seasons had we had De Gea in goal. We'd have won the league at least once, put it that way.

Quite possibly Mick and it's also another reason why I think people are wrong when they suggest our biggest problems remain in attack (when we have our full starting line-up). You malign Bobby, which is fair enough although of course I disagree with you. I think a player that creates the most chances in open play in the entire league is an absolute asset and is massively underappreciated when you consider he does this while also scoring his fair share. Could he score more, yes, definitely but if he did add that to his game also (which he isn't far from adding) then he would be clearly the best player in the league in my opinion.

However on to the relevant point though, the year you refer to it was without doubt that our defensive record cost us and it is again our defending that is really costing us. In most cases being 'pragmatic' would be an option to most of the other manager's of the top teams. Mourinho, Conte etc could easily rely on his team to see that out but with our frailty at the back we really can't and that is a huge issue. It could easily be argued that if we had De Gea this year we'd actually be very close to Chelsea and it infuriates me to have to keep enduring that level of goalkeeping.

We go again. 2 shots, 2 goals. Lucky fuckers, f**k them. Next match, get the three points and move on.

It has nothing to do with luck and everything to do with bad defending

Go back one game, Everton we were the best team, we deserved to win but they had two golden opportunity to score. Williams and Holgate both missed chances they should of scored

We were so much better than Everton as we were last night against Bournemouth but in both game we gave easy chances to score. Bournemouth took theirs Everton didn't.

Its been happening far to often to be called luck

Quite possibly Mick and it's also another reason why I think people are wrong when they suggest our biggest problems remain in attack (when we have our full starting line-up). You malign Bobby, which is fair enough although of course I disagree with you. I think a player that creates the most chances in open play in the entire league is an absolute asset and is massively underappreciated when you consider he does this while also scoring his fair share. Could he score more, yes, definitely but if he did add that to his game also (which he isn't far from adding) then he would be clearly the best player in the league in my opinion.

However on to the relevant point though, the year you refer to it was without doubt that our defensive record cost us and it is again our defending that is really costing us. In most cases being 'pragmatic' would be an option to most of the other manager's of the top teams. Mourinho, Conte etc could easily rely on his team to see that out but with our frailty at the back we really can't and that is a huge issue. It could easily be argued that if we had De Gea this year we'd actually be very close to Chelsea and it infuriates me to have to keep enduring that level of goalkeeping.

Yep, leaving aside the Bobby debate it would be a fool that would pretend that our major problem is in attack when we've scored the most goals in the league (I aren't one of those). There are parallels though between a goalie who saves f*** all and IMHO when your centre forward misses a chance or isn't there to knock one in. The players feel the extra pressure, that much was obvious last night with Migs f****** about early doors. You could make a case for neither GOAL being down to him, but IMHO the defensive jitters almost always is. I get f****** nervous just watching him so God knows what he's like to play in front of. I agree on karius too, if he ain't better than Migs then he's never going to be top level. 

Spot on. Has Mignolet ever had a " None shall pass " game for us ? No. F***ing about at the start last night just proves he hasn't learned a thing.
Also. He should of been in the middle of his goal last night for their second , he just opened up the whole of his right side.

Never expect him to bail people out. You know how you see other teams have defenders running over to their keeper and patting him on the back, the only time I ever remember this for Migs was the pen save on his debut.

Even then that was a moment of flatter to deceive. His penalty saving since has proven to also be awful. I just don't see any redeeming qualities in the player and I'm going over old ground, just please god replace him as soon as possible.

Totally agree. I wonder how we'd have fared over the last four seasons had we had De Gea in goal. We'd have won the league at least once, put it that way.

We'd have won the league in 2013-2014 with Reina in goal.

Remember Mignolet's complete f**k up job in first half injury time against City away on Boxing Day 2013 - where he let a tame Negredo shot flap over his hand? From what I recall we were excellent in that match but we got nothing.

We'd also be in the Champions League this year had it not been for Mignolet's f**k ups last season. There were three 2-2 draws at home last season against West Brom, Sunderland and Newcastle. The latter two, we were leading 2-0. In all three Mignolet flapped pathetically at a cross/corner and handed all three teams the initiative, dropping us 6 points we should easily have gained. We missed out on the CL spot by 6 points...and that's just three games where I've identified mistakes solely because of Mignolet. The free kick setup (where a paedophile scored the equaliser) in that Sunderland match was vintage Mignolet, best displayed in the graphic below.



That's our standard right there. Having him in goal, it's as though a 3 year old has taken controls of the Playstation. We could have a defence consisting of Maldinis and Cannavaro's etc and it'd be pointless when you consider what we have to contend with in goal.

p.s - he's actually partly at fault for the second goal last night. A good keeper will catch rather than punch. The punch falls back to Bournemouth, they redeliver back into the box and moments later it's in the back of the net.

The players feel the extra pressure, that much was obvious last night with Migs f****** about early doors. You could make a case for neither GOAL being down to him, but IMHO the defensive jitters almost always is. I get f****** nervous just watching him so God knows what he's like to play in front of. I agree on karius too, if he ain't better than Migs then he's never going to be top level.

Totally agree.

Yep, leaving aside the Bobby debate it would be a fool that would pretend that our major problem is in attack when we've scored the most goals in the league (I aren't one of those). There are parallels though between a goalie who saves f*** all and IMHO when your centre forward misses a chance or isn't there to knock one in. The players feel the extra pressure, that much was obvious last night with Migs f****** about early doors. You could make a case for neither GOAL being down to him, but IMHO the defensive jitters almost always is. I get f****** nervous just watching him so God knows what he's like to play in front of. I agree on karius too, if he ain't better than Migs then he's never going to be top level. 

Migs along with the quality of our CB's is our main issue. Although rightly people would like Bobby to score a few more goals but as you have rightly pointed out he has been part of an attack which has scored the most goals in this league.
A bit more defensive nouse from our midfield would not go amiss either.

When you are regularly scoring 2-3 goals as a team there is no F***ing way we should be dropping points to the likes of Bournemouth, Sunderland etc.

Our issue last night was that Klopp had nobody to call upon from the bench.
He opted to go pragmatic because he obviously felt he couldn't rely on Sturridge, and it didn't work.
That was our issue.

This.

We'd have won the league in 2013-2014 with Reina in goal.

Remember Mignolet's complete f**k up job in first half injury time against City away on Boxing Day 2013 - where he let a tame Negredo shot flap over his hand? From what I recall we were excellent in that match but we got nothing.

We'd also be in the Champions League this year had it not been for Mignolet's f**k ups last season. There were three 2-2 draws at home last season against West Brom, Sunderland and Newcastle. The latter two, we were leading 2-0. In all three Mignolet flapped pathetically at a cross/corner and handed all three teams the initiative, dropping us 6 points we should easily have gained. We missed out on the CL spot by 6 points...and that's just three games where I've identified mistakes solely because of Mignolet. The free kick setup (where a paedophile scored the equaliser) in that Sunderland match was vintage Mignolet, best displayed in the graphic below.



That's our standard right there. Having him in goal, it's as though a 3 year old has taken controls of the Playstation. We could have a defence consisting of Maldinis and Cannavaro's etc and it'd be pointless when you consider what we have to contend with in goal.

p.s - he's actually partly at fault for the second goal last night. A good keeper will catch rather than punch. The punch falls back to Bournemouth, they redeliver back into the box and moments later it's in the back of the net.

...   said it at the end of last season. 

I brought it to 15 points lost down to him  in 2015 -2016  and his keystone cop displays.

I agree on karius too, if he ain't better than Migs then he's never going to be top level.

He's looking more and more like yet another cheap punt to be fair. [just lke all our defensive signings this season to be honest]

Sometimes they work; most times they don't but they [gambles based on price] are never the foundation for sustained success. Not under BR and clearly not now. 😕

Migs doesn't pick himself - it would be nice if we actually paid for someone who will make sure it doesn't happen again.

Our issue last night was that Klopp had nobody to call upon from the bench. He opted to go pragmatic because he obviously felt he couldn't rely on Sturridge

You touch on a very interesting point belly.

I've often thought and indeed asked, on here (without answer) - if Jürgen "doesn't rate"/"cant rely on" Danny...

At what point in time did he [Jürgen] realise that he didn't rate and couldn't rely on Danny?

It must surely have been after January; otherwise he would have sold Danny and used the money (and saved wages) to sign someone he did rate; right?

But...

Remember Jürgen didn't play Danny in January, when we were sh*te and he was fit. It is possible he didn't trust him even then.

So...

We possibly have a player, who we won't play because he's not rated [he didn't do a Sakho did he?], earning big money, which could have been paid instead to a Draxler for e.g. ... IF he'd been sold in January [when players can be sold for more remember?].

Makes no sense; right?

My simple brain hurts.  😁

Dodgy first ten minutes. Not helped by our inability to play the ball forward and a preference to play it square at the back - inviting pressure.

After that we were the better team. Take nothing away from Bournemouth. They were very organised and had pace up front. But we gradually increased the tempo and got ourselves into a deserved lead.

I was pleased with the Matip sub. With them bringing on even more pace and our back line growing more tired in defence, I was happy to see someone with recent match playing experience coming on.

Losing the lead so close to the end was very hard to take but these things happen when you don't have stability in the team thanks to injury etc. If felt like a loss more than a draw.

Puts the pressure on the weekends game even more now.

An artists impression of Mignolets Liverpool career.

You touch on a very interesting point belly.

I've often thought and indeed asked, on here (without answer) - if Jürgen "doesn't rate"/"cant rely on" Danny...

At what point in time did he [Jürgen] realise that he didn't rate and couldn't rely on Danny?

Jürgen decided he didn't want Sturridge (not that he couldn't rely on him) before he came to Liverpool.

His dislike for Sturridge has been evident all this time.

The big question is "why does Klopp not want Sturridge?" but it's going to be one of those Sahko mysteries, and I suspect we never will find the truth of what has caused the problem. I am very sure it is nothing to do with injuries, just in the same way that the reasons given for the dislike of Sahko don't make any sense either.

As for Mignolet, I am surprised to see him taking the slack on last night's failure which was nothing to do with Mignolet and all to do with Klopp. It's laughable to see people say that 'it all started with Mignolet's error'. Seriously, I chuckle to see it but in despair also. They quote Carragher - as if the man is all knowledge. Carragher's had a dislike for our defence since he ended his career. Of course, it will never be as good as it was when he was playing.

I recall Coutinho giving the ball away under no pressure in the final third in the 12th minute of the game - guess that was because Mignolet's error was still on his mind and shook his ability to play football. I guess Mignolet's error startled Klopp into being unable to make effective use of his substitutes. I guess Mignolet's error gave Gini the idea to pass it back in the way he did for no reason. I guess Mignolet was also at fault when the ball got fed into the box and Klavan let his man turn him and fire at the goal.

I too remember Mignolet's errors from year's gone buy. It is his fault that we didn't sign enough players to strengthen the team, because no good player wants to come and play in a team with nervous Mignolet. He cost us the title in the 13/14 season, and he cost us two trophies last season.

It is Mignolet's fault that so many posters on this forum mope around in depression and look to blame him for every sad moment in their life.