Top four. I'm having trouble getting worked up over it, probably just me?

This isn't a pop at anyone who is, as I'm sure every die hard Liverpool fan really OUGHT to be rattling the sabres and urging the lads onto top four glory. It's just a comment on where I am at the mo, and to be honest aside from finishing above Man U which would be nice as a load get in the pub, I'm having trouble getting worked up about the whole thing.

I know it's "progress" and all that, and I know it ought to make us able to sign better players, but for some reason it just ain't doing it for me. Maybe it's stuff outside football that is the reason I don't know, just ignore me (shouldn't be too difficult ).

Probably because we have not got CL yet. If we qualify for CL you will not feel like that anymore. It is likely you are not excited in case we mess up the opportunity.

This isn't a pop at anyone who is, as I'm sure every die hard Liverpool fan really OUGHT to be rattling the sabres and urging the lads onto top four glory. It's just a comment on where I am at the mo, and to be honest aside from finishing above Man U which would be nice as a load get in the pub, I'm having trouble getting worked up about the whole thing.

I know it's "progress" and all that, and I know it ought to make us able to sign better players, but for some reason it just ain't doing it for me. Maybe it's stuff outside football that is the reason I don't know, just ignore me (shouldn't be too difficult ).

I agree, we know if we qualify, we are gonna need a stronger squad, but all theses muppet owners promised us when they did take over, was to do it.  end of.    If/when we do qualify,  lets see what they do then.

I'm having trouble getting worked up about the whole thing.

What have you been getting worked up about then watching Liverpool for the last 10 years?

None of us think that 4th is the holy grail but we've gone from being a top four club under Benitez to a top 8 club for most of the past 7 years.

So it is important to get back up into the category of contenders rather than outsiders.

Understand what you're saying Mick. Same as bbb, January was like a serious kicking in the nads. 2016 we'd been excellent, and 1st month of Jan we were as bad as we'd been good before that. Massive disappointment. Nobody really wanted to say it, but from having so many possibilities before xmas, we were pretty much out of the running to win a trophy 4 weeks into new year. Painful. And the performances, against teams we should have been doing so much better against, made it worse. 

Pretty much lasted February as well.

Mick feels apathetic now, that's how it was during those dark two months for me.

Agree with Orchard Red, missed opportunity this season, could have been more. Next season will be significantly harder IMO.

We could've easily had a league cup in our cabinet this season already, but for the semi final to fall during our implosion period, had we won that competition and finish in the top 4, this season would have a very different feel to it. Winning the league cup in 2011 was a fantastic experience, I remember watching it with three of my boys, it cemented them as Liverpool supporters, it was hard to celebrate qualifying the the CL in 2014 as if felt more like a runners-up prize after narrowly missing out on the title.
If we do finish in the top 4 this season it we'll feel more like relief than success, but it is absolutely essential if we have any ambition for this club next season.

Did you really think we could win the league in December ? If you don't mind me asking but are you old enough to have watched us through the 70's & 80's ? 

My wifes cousins husband is a Man Utd fan and when we were having dinner with them in early December i told him if you offered me 4 th place now i would bite your hand off.  He agreed with me that our defence was a joke  and could never sustain a title challenge.
The next day i had my two brothers telling me we could win the league and couldn't understand why i didn't think so.

So where you just getting caught up in it a bit or did you really believe we could win it ?

I thought we could at least keep pace before we imploded in Jan/Feb. The early season signs were very encouraging and I'd expect that from a world class manager. I wouldn't expect a manager of Klopp's calibre to exhibit a half a season wonder show.

The question should be Littleface, did you really expect us to blow that form, and in the process undermine it so spectacularly in the space of 1-2 months? Going from one extreme to the other like that was bound to take the wind out of the sails, it did me. It was polar opposites and the shock of that wasn't good - Losing to Wolves at home, c'mon man did you expect that dross after the early season form?

I didn't. I believe Klopp should have turned it around quicker. Signs were beginning to show we were getting leggy and even tactically low half (division) managers started to get the measure of us.

I didn't expect us to win it in December (silly that), but I didn't expect us to implode so drastically. That was low. And nothing can dress that up. Klopp has even admitted he got that wrong - not reinforcing - so all the excuses about the squad he was left with 15 months prior to that doesn't wash. He's man enough to admit it - which is all that matters.

By the same token, we're in the hunt for the Arsenal achievement cup right now, and even though that is a slur aimed at the gooners, we haven't been here for a few years.

It's important we consolidate it this year, and then stay there which Rodgers failed to do, and make it ours. So we are regularly playing CL football. We've then got to build on that and challenge for the title not just hang around there like Arsenal, and possibly win some domestic cups in the process. Huge asks, no matter the manager.

It's only going to get tougher and it's imperative Klopp & co. firstly buy right, and don't underestimate the rigours of English football again. Though I'm certain he will have learned the latter merely from our weak domestic squad this season.

This is what I expect now, going from a "novice" to a "world class" manager. Firm but fair expectations.

It's important we consolidate it this year, and then stay there which Rodgers failed to do, and make it ours. So we are regularly playing CL football. We've then got to build on that and challenge for the title not just hang around there like Arsenal, and possibly win some domestic cups in the process. Huge asks, no matter the manager.

It's only going to get tougher and it's imperative Klopp & co. firstly buy right, and don't underestimate the rigours of English football again. Though I'm certain he will have learned the latter merely from our weak domestic squad this season.

This is what I expect now, going from a "novice" to a "world class" manager. Firm but fair expectations.

How many years were we at the top table playing in Europe before Souness broke the chain?
Every year .

Personally the loss of CL league football from Sky and ITV have ruined the feel of the tournament for me.

BT get a lot of good press but in all honesty they've just added an extra cost to following the sport and made it even more exclusive.

They've also failed to recreate the same buzz and atmosphere around these big games and i'm sure viewing figures are reflecting that.

How many years were we at the top table playing in Europe before Souness broke the chain?
Every year .

I think his very appointment was the pivotal moment of our decline.

To be fair, Ian Rush, John Barnes, Peter Beardsley, Steve McMahon, Ray Houghton, Jan Molby, Ronnie Whelan, Steve Nicol, and Bruce Grobbelaar were all knocking on (30 or over), and that isn't easy, but still...

Paul Stewart & Julian 'thug' Gicks. FML

I think his very appointment was the pivotal moment of our decline.

Couldn't agree more on that one .

Man, as much as it sucks that we're out of the league race - I struggle to wonder where the mindset of the fan is not being able to get some fire in the old loins (no, not talking about questionable birds and the problems that arise post 4am 'U UP?' texts) for the prospect of being back in the big dance that is Champions League.

Yep, I F***ing wish we were in the title race. But lets be real, its been Chelsea's for a while now and it's not even close. We simply did not have the squad/luck to keep pace. AFCON was a F**k up of a month both with Mane going and the Matip shitshow. Lallana being in and out, Coutinho gone for a fair hunk - that's our team. Goalkeeping issues and the standard Liverpool defensive Benny Hill episode - it's really a F***ing miracle that we aren't sweating more. Have Arsenal to thank for that I guess! As well as Mourinho showing that he is just a man with a F***ing sh*t attitude and not the messiah that the media tried to make him for the last decade or so.

So we're not in the title race. But F**k me, we're gonna be back in the top four. We're gonna be in the Champions League. Let me ask this question of you all, what is one of the biggest pride points we all go back to when discussing Liverpool's success, our pride in our history, the love for the heroes of yesteryear? It's '77, winning the F***ing thing for the first time! It's '78 and watching that legend of Kenny beginning with that chip of beauty. It's '81 and knocking off Real F***ing Madrid! '84, and sinking those bas**rds in their own back yard in Rome. And '05, the greatest Champions League match of all time. We are the best to ever row over the channel and take on the elite of Europe. We won it five times. FIVE TIMES. Who's the last team to knock off Barca in the round of 16? Still us. Europe has been laughing without the menace of the reds coming over the hill, as who's there to really challenge? We are meant to be there.

However, while I say we are meant to be there - you also have to earn it. We've been dogs knackers for years now, bar that one magical year under BR that still ended in tears - and he couldn't manage in Europe to save his wee life. The league is an absolute dog fight, you have to EARN top four. To be in the Champions League from the Premier League means you've beaten out some F***ing quality to get there, and thats something to be proud of. Yeah, there's no trophy. But F**k, if we finish above United to get there (hope to F**k someone beats them in Europa) then get in.

This isn't even mentioning the obvious financial reward, the ability to offer CL footy to the elite players we need to target for this squad - which are fundamental to reaching where we believe we should be. Yes, we are Liverpool. We are a club that is beyond the mortal realm as far as our history and culture is concerned. But even gods must be humbled, and we have been for the last twenty-five years. We must learn to appreciate the small things, to appreciate taking the step back into the top four. Then, then we can truly appreciate the journey back to where we truly belong. Then the gravity of that league win - it is coming - will be ever more profound when these steps are looked back upon through misty eyes and many, many pints of lager tasting that much more sweeter than ever before.

 

Mick, its a brave and honest post, as others have said.

I'd guess you're of the same generation as me - we grew up with success and being the best (not just one of the best) every single year.  It kind of colours your expectation for life, doesn't it?

I forget sometimes that so many of our fans are too young to have ever known that consistent success (save the 2005 Champions League win and an occasional domestic trophy), and have a more 'realistic' (ie lower) expectation level of the club as it has toiled for the last two (nearly three! - Jeez I'm getting on a bit..) decades.

Yes, for you and me the idea of celebrating coming fourth is a bit of a washout.  Coming first year on year was the expectation, not the aim.  We were p***ed off, shocked and horrified when we came second!

In the game's modern context I can see how coming fourth is an achievement, as I'm sure can you.  But you're right, its not the sort of achievement we used to get goose pimples about at all, is it?

So take heart, me old lad, some of us have complete empathy with how you feel. 

Hope whatever's happening in the rest of your life becomes an easier weight to bear.  We all have them, and our backs don't get any stronger.

And then the whistle blows on the next match and we're 15 again.  YNWA.   

Man, as much as it sucks that we're out of the league race - I struggle to wonder where the mindset of the fan is not being able to get some fire in the old loins (no, not talking about questionable birds and the problems that arise post 4am 'U UP?' texts) for the prospect of being back in the big dance that is Champions League.

Yep, I f**king wish we were in the title race. But lets be real, its been Chelsea's for a while now and it's not even close. We simply did not have the squad/luck to keep pace. AFCON was a f**k up of a month both with Mane going and the Matip shitshow. Lallana being in and out, Coutinho gone for a fair hunk - that's our team. Goalkeeping issues and the standard Liverpool defensive Benny Hill episode - it's really a f**king miracle that we aren't sweating more. Have Arsenal to thank for that I guess! As well as Mourinho showing that he is just a man with a f**king sh*t attitude and not the messiah that the media tried to make him for the last decade or so.

So we're not in the title race. But f**k me, we're gonna be back in the top four. We're gonna be in the Champions League. Let me ask this question of you all, what is one of the biggest pride points we all go back to when discussing Liverpool's success, our pride in our history, the love for the heroes of yesteryear? It's '77, winning the f**king thing for the first time! It's '78 and watching that legend of Kenny beginning with that chip of beauty. It's '81 and knocking off Real f**king Madrid! '84, and sinking those bas**rds in their own back yard in Rome. And '05, the greatest Champions League match of all time. We are the best to ever row over the channel and take on the elite of Europe. We won it five times. FIVE TIMES. Who's the last team to knock off Barca in the round of 16? Still us. Europe has been laughing without the menace of the reds coming over the hill, as who's there to really challenge? We are meant to be there.

However, while I say we are meant to be there - you also have to earn it. We've been dogs knackers for years now, bar that one magical year under BR that still ended in tears - and he couldn't manage in Europe to save his wee life. The league is an absolute dog fight, you have to EARN top four. To be in the Champions League from the Premier League means you've beaten out some f**king quality to get there, and thats something to be proud of. Yeah, there's no trophy. But f**k, if we finish above United to get there (hope to f**k someone beats them in Europa) then get in.

This isn't even mentioning the obvious financial reward, the ability to offer CL footy to the elite players we need to target for this squad - which are fundamental to reaching where we believe we should be. Yes, we are Liverpool. We are a club that is beyond the mortal realm as far as our history and culture is concerned. But even gods must be humbled, and we have been for the last twenty-five years. We must learn to appreciate the small things, to appreciate taking the step back into the top four. Then, then we can truly appreciate the journey back to where we truly belong. Then the gravity of that league win - it is coming - will be ever more profound when these steps are looked back upon through misty eyes and many, many pints of lager tasting that much more sweeter than ever before.

 

Fantastic post, well said.

Wouldn't say I'm excited about finishing top four but I would say that if we don't I'll be pretty bummed if that makes sense. Top 4 should be a given year in and out for this team, it shouldn't be something to aspire to. It should merely be a consolation prize if we don't win the league every year.

I'm not excited about finishing 3rd or 4th, but I am excited by the prospect of making ECL

I understand the thinking that we are Liverpool and should be looking at winning titles, but the reality is, we've been nowhere for way too long and this is our opportunity to play on the biggest stage in world (yup, bigger than the world cup for me) football. Our chance for Munich, Barca, Madrid, Juve etc to rub shoulders with us. It's also a 'nowhere to hide' scenario for FSG; they simply have to splash the cash now.

Not to mention the cash we'd get for entering the competition and how Klopp tends to do really well in cup competitions. If he can go one game better than he usually does, we could surprise a lot of people.

#Rafelikesthis

So, whilst I do have both eyes firmly on league titles and winning trophies, and I do understand why you (Bigmick) and others might feel a little flat about it all, I look at all of this long term and want to start bringing those special European nights back to Anfield. The longer we stay in the ECL the better opportunities we have to bring a higher level of player to the club, which in turn keeps those European nights at Anfield; and seeing how we have increased our capacity, that should make those European nights even better.

I'm not excited about finishing 3rd or 4th, but I am excited by the prospect of making ECL

I understand the thinking that we are Liverpool and should be looking at winning titles, but the reality is, we've been nowhere for way too long and this is our opportunity to play on the biggest stage in world (yup, bigger than the world cup for me) football. Our chance for Munich, Barca, Madrid, Juve etc to rub shoulders with us. It's also a 'nowhere to hide' scenario for FSG; they simply have to splash the cash now.

Not to mention the cash we'd get for entering the competition and how Klopp tends to do really well in cup competitions. If he can go one game better than he usually does, we could surprise a lot of people.

#Rafelikesthis

So, whilst I do have both eyes firmly on league titles and winning trophies, and I do understand why you (Bigmick) and others might feel a little flat about it all, I look at all of this long term and want to start bringing those special European nights back to Anfield. The longer we stay in the ECL the better opportunities we have to bring a higher level of player to the club, which in turn keeps those European nights at Anfield; and seeing how we have increased our capacity, that should make those European nights even better.

Indeed.

Just as it's Liverpool FC long term and not Arsenal FC long term if you get my drift.

It's not an achievement, neither is being a runner up in finals an achievement, it's winning trophies and titles that are the achievements.

This (CL qualification) is a massive step in the right direction. if nothing else.

Sydney fc straight up fella, that should wet the whistle! 

Are they a decent watch mate? Might get on them. Probably be crazy hours for me though won't they.

Are they a decent watch mate? Might get on them. Probably be crazy hours for me though won't they.

F**k knows mate. 

End of season depression will have already set in by then.   

I feel similar myself actually, obviously I know it's good but I fear that with us it isn't seen as a stepping stone to greater things.

Everything about the way the club is run tells me that top 4 IS the goal and it's about consolidating regular CL football rather than pushing on.

But for now, I'll take it (if we get it). Those European nights have really been missed and with Klopp in charge the amotspheres will be incredible.

This isn't a pop at anyone who is, as I'm sure every die hard Liverpool fan really OUGHT to be rattling the sabres and urging the lads onto top four glory. It's just a comment on where I am at the mo, and to be honest aside from finishing above Man U which would be nice as a load get in the pub, I'm having trouble getting worked up about the whole thing.

I know it's "progress" and all that, and I know it ought to make us able to sign better players, but for some reason it just ain't doing it for me. Maybe it's stuff outside football that is the reason I don't know, just ignore me (shouldn't be too difficult ).

I fully understand how you feel bigMick, its hard to get excited about finishing in a CL position, unless of course we finish as champions, we have undoubtedly made progress and we will continue to do so, but its not a trophy and its certainly not worthy of any kind of celebration, we will of course all welcome it with open arms and i'd hazard a guess that most of us will be saying 'about time too',

Most of us if asked back in August would have settled for a top 4 finish and i'm guessing most of us feel somewhat disappointed we didn't win any silverware, perhaps that is what we kind of expected at the start so therefore ending the season top 4 feels like a anti-climax,

while top 4 is progress for us, and it is, small steps and all that, a club our size should always strive to be the best, for me we are still in our infancy under Jürgen, so for him to have us more or less playing CL next season, after his first full season isn't to shabby at all, and when you consider the size of our squad and all the injuries to key players, it is pretty damn good to be fair.

Onwards and Upwards as we all say !


YNWA

bigmick you are probably feeling this way because we should be streaking it at the top of the League after the start of the Season we had. It's gone completely tits up since the start of this Year and here we find ourselves fighting to get in the Top 4 when we should have been looking behind us and laughing at all the cu*ts below us!   I'm still F***ing shattered with January and February. I'm just hoping next year if we are in a similar position, our keys players stay fit and there is NO F***ing AFCON!!!

This isn't a pop at anyone who is, as I'm sure every die hard Liverpool fan really OUGHT to be rattling the sabres and urging the lads onto top four glory. It's just a comment on where I am at the mo, and to be honest aside from finishing above Man U which would be nice as a load get in the pub, I'm having trouble getting worked up about the whole thing.

I know it's "progress" and all that, and I know it ought to make us able to sign better players, but for some reason it just ain't doing it for me. Maybe it's stuff outside football that is the reason I don't know, just ignore me (shouldn't be too difficult ).

May be we should finish 5th then. 

Are they a decent watch mate? Might get on them. Probably be crazy hours for me though won't they.

They're easily the best team in the A-League. After 27 games they're 17 points above 2nd place, they've scored the most goals and conceded by far the least amount and have only lost once. They play some good football too.