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      Transfers and Scouting

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      what-a-hit-son
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      • t: @MrPrice1979 i: @klmprice101518
      Re: Transfers and Scouting
      Reply #23: Apr 24, 2017 07:07:37 pm
      RobieSlick
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      Re: Transfers and Scouting
      Reply #24: Apr 26, 2017 12:43:57 pm
      bad boy bubby
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      • @KaiserQueef
      Re: Transfers and Scouting
      Reply #25: Apr 27, 2017 09:29:34 am
      Slightly off topic and assuming we have our own scouts: do you reckon they feel any shame/embarrassment over the Southampton 'constant'? 🤔

      bad boy bubby
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      • @KaiserQueef
      Re: Transfers and Scouting
      Reply #26: Apr 27, 2017 09:39:55 am
      I believe everything Rodgers says. Yes, really I do.  :mad:

      And why not... after all, you have people happy to believe him if he says he wanted Sinclair. 🙄

      Tell you what tho' - how good is FSGs propaganda machine that aspersions are cast on TPM rather on their transfer policy at the time? 😕
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: Transfers and Scouting
      Reply #27: Apr 27, 2017 10:15:35 am
      I believe everything Rodgers says. Yes, really I do.  :mad:

      Some people will never accept a word Brendan said, that's their choice, but remember this is the same men that wanted, Mhikatarian, Willian, and Costa, but people only want to talk about the poor players that he bought, because he " had the first and last word on transfers"!

      If anyone wants to tell me again what Brendan did that was so wrong, that would help me greatly
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Transfers and Scouting
      Reply #28: Apr 27, 2017 11:28:04 am
      Some people will never accept a word Brendan said, that's their choice, but remember this is the same men that wanted, Mhikatarian, Willian, and Costa, but people only want to talk about the poor players that he bought, because he " had the first and last word on transfers"!

      If anyone wants to tell me again what Brendan did that was so wrong, that would help me greatly

      Anyone with any fairness won't blame him, they'll blame his Dentist...
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Transfers and Scouting
      Reply #29: Apr 27, 2017 01:33:11 pm

      I 100% believe him, same as with Sanchez, Alli, Willian etc. The problem I had was that he wasn't strong enough to enforce his will.

      He also oversaw the sale of Sterling, Gerrard, Suarez, Reina, Agger, Kuyt, Rodriguez, the list goes on and he was duty bound to replace these players, what we were left with by the time Jürgen arrived is Brendan's legacy.

      Jürgen is now tasked with the same challenge, to change the approach of FSG and according to all the rumours that was done not only on day one when he took full control but also the attitude within FSG is now shifting away from 'potential' to 'proven'. Something so many of us have been calling for since they took moved away from the 'premiership proven' and the famous letter of "never again will we blah blah".

      Whether it's actually enough for us to compete with Chelsea/United I doubt, but most certainly beating the likes of Arsenal and Spurs to the punch would be a huge step in the right direction. We'll know for sure if we get CL and see our business in the summer and it's one of the many reasons I really hope we do make it. I can't be doing with the ambiguity that will exist if we don't, could we have got him with CL etc, let's just have clarity and know where we stand. Hopefully that's on much more stable and sustainable footing in terms of football progress from now on, we'll soon find out.
      ruthcity
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      Re: Transfers and Scouting
      Reply #30: Apr 27, 2017 02:47:15 pm

      Everybody is right in hindsight. There'll be no end talking about possibilities over what has passed.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Transfers and Scouting
      Reply #31: May 04, 2017 03:19:21 pm
      Interesting article about Monaco's player recruitment scheme, which has to be considered a huge success by any standard. For one thing he relies mainly on six of what he calls "super-scouts."

      This quote from the architect in particular struck me, re analytics vs. traditional scouting:  "All the data and methods you mention are very important, but if you do not know how to read and interpret them, they are definitely useless. The sensitivity and ability to read this data is critical. But I believe much more in what our eyes and our brain are capable of transmitting to us than in any computer in the world. The computer and statistical data offer us an essential, but not decisive aid."

      The whole thing is here if you are interested: https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-meet-monaco-transfer-guru-signed-mbappe-bernardo-bakayoko-build-footballs-exciting-team-111214429.html

      Wouldn't want to go on a canoe trip with this guy, btw, as is totally arrogant about himself, but he describes the whole player recruitment world in detail and also has some pointed comments on why English teams have not done better in Europe lately.

      « Last Edit: May 04, 2017 03:26:42 pm by Robby The Z »
      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
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      Re: Transfers and Scouting
      Reply #32: May 07, 2017 10:51:46 am
      Interesting article about Monaco's player recruitment scheme, which has to be considered a huge success by any standard. For one thing he relies mainly on six of what he calls "super-scouts."

      This quote from the architect in particular struck me, re analytics vs. traditional scouting:  "All the data and methods you mention are very important, but if you do not know how to read and interpret them, they are definitely useless. The sensitivity and ability to read this data is critical. But I believe much more in what our eyes and our brain are capable of transmitting to us than in any computer in the world. The computer and statistical data offer us an essential, but not decisive aid."

      The whole thing is here if you are interested: https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-meet-monaco-transfer-guru-signed-mbappe-bernardo-bakayoko-build-footballs-exciting-team-111214429.html

      Wouldn't want to go on a canoe trip with this guy, btw, as is totally arrogant about himself, but he describes the whole player recruitment world in detail and also has some pointed comments on why English teams have not done better in Europe lately.

      "From one moment to the other the ability to invest in confirmed talents disappeared and I saw many people despair. If we wanted to continue at the highest level, we had to radically change policy and find young talents, put them in a good showcase, and then sell to make strong financial contributions to sustain the project."      - Campos

      Sounds similar to the FSG mantra of signing exciting young players with potential, put them in 'a showcase' and sell them at a profit a year or two down the line.  The difference being that Monaco seem to have scouted much more effectively and brought great entertainment and the promise of success (at least for now). 
      So the business model and the quality and success of the scouting and recruitment are co-dependent and equally essential.

      Does it produce teams that can sustain success at the top level domestically and in Europe?  Unproven.
      Can it produce one-season-wonder teams?  I would say probably, based on gut instinct and Liverpool's recent history.

      I do think Campos is right about the English clubs' recruitment being unbalanced towards high-quality attackers (financial reasons dictate this as much as anything - how many kids go round with defenders' names on their shirts?  How many defenders appear in promotion campaigns?). 

      I don't think we've dropped the old scouting model of physically going to watch players.  I'm sure we have a balance between statistical analysis and feet-on-the-sidelines scouting,  but are our scouts sufficiently able (as Campos puts it) to "notice" and project into the future, rather than just look and see? 

      We have picked out some great talent in recent years, and tried (if you believe what we're told) to go for the likes of Delle Ali, but the recruitment process hasn't always worked out in those cases.  Maybe we didn't offer them enough money, or maybe London life appealed more.  But that's not a scouting issue.

      I'm disappointed (but not surprised) that nobody has replied to this thread with any genuine answers or insight into the current LFC process of scouting.  Maybe it's all too much 'behind closed doors.'

      Thanks for that Robbie, fascinating stuff.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Transfers and Scouting
      Reply #33: May 08, 2017 02:43:00 am
      "From one moment to the other the ability to invest in confirmed talents disappeared and I saw many people despair. If we wanted to continue at the highest level, we had to radically change policy and find young talents, put them in a good showcase, and then sell to make strong financial contributions to sustain the project."      - Campos

      Sounds similar to the FSG mantra of signing exciting young players with potential, put them in 'a showcase' and sell them at a profit a year or two down the line.  The difference being that Monaco seem to have scouted much more effectively and brought great entertainment and the promise of success (at least for now). 
      So the business model and the quality and success of the scouting and recruitment are co-dependent and equally essential.

      Does it produce teams that can sustain success at the top level domestically and in Europe?  Unproven.
      Can it produce one-season-wonder teams?  I would say probably, based on gut instinct and Liverpool's recent history.

      I do think Campos is right about the English clubs' recruitment being unbalanced towards high-quality attackers (financial reasons dictate this as much as anything - how many kids go round with defenders' names on their shirts?  How many defenders appear in promotion campaigns?). 

      I don't think we've dropped the old scouting model of physically going to watch players.  I'm sure we have a balance between statistical analysis and feet-on-the-sidelines scouting,  but are our scouts sufficiently able (as Campos puts it) to "notice" and project into the future, rather than just look and see? 

      We have picked out some great talent in recent years, and tried (if you believe what we're told) to go for the likes of Delle Ali, but the recruitment process hasn't always worked out in those cases.  Maybe we didn't offer them enough money, or maybe London life appealed more.  But that's not a scouting issue.

      I'm disappointed (but not surprised) that nobody has replied to this thread with any genuine answers or insight into the current LFC process of scouting.  Maybe it's all too much 'behind closed doors.'

      Thanks for that Robbie, fascinating stuff.

      I thought it was interesting as well. He seems to be saying that Monaco's situation meant they had to recruit in cycles, bringing in budding talents, having success with them, but then being resigned to selling them after they became known via their success with the club. It's that last part that would never go over at Liverpool and frankly, shouldn't not be our policy.

      I can accept that nobody on here really knows about the scouting, other than what they think it should be. That's certainly where I'm at, but hopefully someone who actually knows the deal, or is in a position to find out, will weigh in eventually. As I said before, it would be a good project for some enterprising journo type.
      PastorGeek
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      Re: Transfers and Scouting
      Reply #34: May 11, 2017 10:49:54 pm
      I 100% believe him, same as with Sanchez, Alli, Willian etc. The problem I had was that he wasn't strong enough to enforce his will.

      He also oversaw the sale of Sterling, Gerrard, Suarez, Reina, Agger, Kuyt, Rodriguez, the list goes on and he was duty bound to replace these players, what we were left with by the time Jürgen arrived is Brendan's legacy.



      And he almost won the league after that.

      Rodgers gets bum rap from fans IMO.

      too many of us are brainwashed by NetSpend and wage budgets to realize our owners are cheaper than arsenals.

      That being said. After we balance the books and get a class manager. What's the next progressive step?
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Transfers and Scouting
      Reply #35: May 11, 2017 11:44:23 pm
      I 100% believe him, same as with Sanchez, Alli, Willian etc. The problem I had was that he wasn't strong enough to enforce his will.

      He also oversaw the sale of Sterling, Gerrard, Suarez, Reina, Agger, Kuyt, Rodriguez, the list goes on and he was duty bound to replace these players, what we were left with by the time Jürgen arrived is Brendan's legacy.

      Jürgen is now tasked with the same challenge, to change the approach of FSG and according to all the rumours that was done not only on day one when he took full control but also the attitude within FSG is now shifting away from 'potential' to 'proven'. Something so many of us have been calling for since they took moved away from the 'premiership proven' and the famous letter of "never again will we blah blah".

      Whether it's actually enough for us to compete with Chelsea/United I doubt, but most certainly beating the likes of Arsenal and Spurs to the punch would be a huge step in the right direction. We'll know for sure if we get CL and see our business in the summer and it's one of the many reasons I really hope we do make it. I can't be doing with the ambiguity that will exist if we don't, could we have got him with CL etc, let's just have clarity and know where we stand. Hopefully that's on much more stable and sustainable footing in terms of football progress from now on, we'll soon find out.

      Take a look at what Rafa was up against during his managerial career with us in an era where Barca, Real, Chelsea, Utd and Arsenal were ahead of us, and latter stages the cowboys, City and PSG, yet he managed to lure Torres, Alonso, Masch, how about Babel after that Euro U21 stint? probably one of the most wanted youngsters in the game, and then you have Reina and even Aguero spoke fondly of us! Also, wasn't Simao and Alves close but we lacked the fund?

      Rodgers wasn't an established manager when we made it into CL and probably one of the key reasons why he couldn't attract big name players?(Hence the reason why we failed in Willian, Sanchez & Kroos). But with Klopp being more respected world wide and established, I believe he will have the pulling power with CL that we haven't had since Rafa, so perhaps we will be able to compete against the big clubs and not everything will be about 30k-50k p/w more, rather players wanting to play for an exceptional/world class manager in CL that is building something special?

      ruthcity
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      Re: Transfers and Scouting
      Reply #36: May 30, 2017 04:28:03 pm
      But with Klopp being more respected world wide and established, I believe he will have the pulling power with CL that we haven't had since Rafa, so perhaps we will be able to compete against the big clubs and not everything will be about 30k-50k p/w more, rather players wanting to play for an exceptional/world class manager in CL that is building something special?

      Hopefully. My only fear is that our new DOF is appointed to "manage" (not in a very nice sense) Klopp's appetite for transfers.

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