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      Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.

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      HamannsTheMan
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      Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      : May 17, 2017 11:42:59 am »
      I begin this topic on the presumption that we finish within the top four and then secure champions league football for the 2017-2018 season. If the unthinkable happens on Sunday and Middlesbrough get a result at Anfield & Arsenal go on and beat Everton, then I doubt there will be any Liverpool supporter out there who says this season has been a successful one. So before that can possibly happen, lets presume we finish top four and lets discuss it.

      What was our target at the beginning of the season? Well Rome wasn't built in a day but I still think those supporters who compare point tally's from previous seasons to prove that we are making some sort of progress are somewhat naïve. It really gets on my nerves hearing things like 'We finished on 50 points last season and this season we have 55 points so we are making progress'. It's not really progress if we are still 5th or 6th in the league is it? We are Liverpool at the end of the day. We are a massive club and we exist to win trophies. So, I think it's fair to say that our target was a top four finish and some silverware. That, for us, is the minimum target each season.

      We were knocked out of the semi final of the league cup, disappointingly, by Southampton.  Three days later, we were knocked out of the FA cup fourth round, embarrassingly, by Wolves. Our focus has therefore been solely on the league since the end of January and it has been a bit of a roller coaster to say the least. At times, we have been truly abysmal playing some terrible football but there have also been many times where we have been unbelievably good too. We have leap frogged teams into third and have been leap frogged ourselves and dropped as low as 5th/6th. It has been a bit of a see-saw with four different clubs jumping on at the same time.

      So no silverware again for us this season  :'(, but lets say we do finish inside the top four then. Was it a good season?

      We began the season incredibly well and we even found ourselves top of the league at one point having played most of our rivals away from home. I, like many of us, started to get a little bit carried away and began think that this season was going to be a special one.  Watching us collapse and fall apart the way we did shortly after Christmas was tough and something I didn't see coming if I'm honest.

      We have been terribly unlucky with our injuries this season though. Our skipper has been out for most of the campaign. Our best player Mane has been injured too plus he was at the Africans for a good month. Matip, Coutinho, Lallana have all had lengthy spells out of the team.  We have a very thin squad and most weeks our bench consists of unknown teenagers. It is quite impressive that with such a small squad, we still find ourselves in our current position. Last season, Arsenal finished second with 71 points. We are currently on 73 points now and in fourth position. So we are likely to finish on 76 points but still in fourth place. It shows that the league has been much more competitive this season and we've had to deal with that.

      But, is it not Klopps fault that we are scraping 11 players together each week? He has had three transfer windows now so should he have not brought more bodies in so we could cope better in such circumstances? If Klopp had signed three or four more players, could we have challenged for the league perhaps? Secured top four much earlier? Won a trophy maybe?  Did Klopp go into this season unprepared?

      The answer to the above question becomes irrelevant once the season kicks off. You just have to deal and cope with what you've got. So, with that in mind, if we had progressed further in the cup competitions, would we have found ourselves in the top four? I would argue that no we wouldn't have. I think that with a squad as thin as ours we would have dropped out of that top four in no time at all. Surely we would have suffered more injuries, suspensions and perhaps it would have taken away any momentum and focus from our league games too. 

      We would then go back to that old favourite discussion of ours of whats more important, a domestic cup or a top four finish?  I personally believe that right now, in this moment in time, a top four finish is FAR more important for Liverpool FC than a domestic cup.  It is all about building platforms so you can eventually challenge on all fronts.  Will an FA cup attract the worlds best players here? No. Will a league cup provide us with the funds to buy the worlds best players to bring them here? No.  Securing champions league football will though.   So was being knocked out of the cups actually a blessing in disguise perhaps? Is being knocked out of a cup EVER a blessing in disguise?

      My thoughts are that as disappointing as it was to see us drop down from 1st to 4th and as disappointing as it is to go yet another season without silverware, (we are going to have to stop signing about everton soon because one league cup in 10 years is pathetic for a club like ours) that, all things considered I think this season has actually been a successful one (providing that we do finish top four of course). 

      Our ultimate goal was top four. A domestic cup would have just been a bonus for me. As I said, its all about building a platform and champions league football provides us with that. I would expect 6 or 7 top additions in the summer now allowing us to compete on all fronts next season. Next season is when I will expect silverware and to maintain our position in the top four too.

      But what do you think?  Did we blow it? We have the best record against the top 6 so shouldn't we have capitalised on that? We may have had a thin squad but the 11 we put out each week was still good enough to beat Bournemouth, Swansea, Palace etc etc etc. Perhaps Klopps stubbornness with picking the same team and tactics was the reason we couldn't beat the bus parkers and not the thin squad we had? Should Klopp have won something by now? This may be his first 'full season' but he has been here two seasons more or less. Is top four good enough for Liverpool FC in this moment? Would you have preferred a cup?
      andylfcynwa
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #1 : May 17, 2017 11:56:33 am »
      Dont know about our target as fans , but the players set out to win the prem as stated by Milner so in that case it was a failure .
      billythered
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #2 : May 17, 2017 12:23:37 pm »
      If it were golf terminology I'd say we're in the clubhouse on par, one under being a cup win,
      It's safe to say we have progressed and considering injuries, small squad syndrome, Klopp's naivety and on occasion lack of bottle I think we've done pretty well,

      We have achieved what we set out to do so no complaints from me, onwards and upwards as we all say, 
      As for next season the targets will be the same a CL place and a cup in the cabinet, most of us would be happy with that especially if that cup has champions on it!

      YNWA
      HScRed1
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #3 : May 17, 2017 12:48:50 pm »
      If fans thought we would be challenging for the title then delusion might be something they need diagnosing from the doctor.

      No doubt expectations were raised with our form over the first third of the season but the reality is even with mistakes made over not bringing in reinforcements over January we would still not have got close to Chelsea, they have been unbelievably good.

      As Reds we always expect to win trophies but again the reality of one trophy in the last 10 years should put that expection into reality.

      At the start of the season I thought if we could achieve Top4 that would be a major achievement in Klopps first full year.
      For myself even more than achieving Top 4 I wanted to see a style and identity of progression of where the club were heading and I believe we are seeing that.

      So yes a good season and hopefully Sunday will confirm that.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #4 : May 17, 2017 01:03:32 pm »
      If fans thought we would be challenging for the title then delusion might be something they need diagnosing from the doctor.

      No doubt expectations were raised with our form over the first third of the season but the reality is even with mistakes made over not bringing in reinforcements over January we would still not have got close to Chelsea, they have been unbelievably good.

      As Reds we always expect to win trophies but again the reality of one trophy in the last 10 years should put that expection into reality.

      At the start of the season I thought if we could achieve Top4 that would be a major achievement in Klopps first full year.
      For myself even more than achieving Top 4 I wanted to see a style and identity of progression of where the club were heading and I believe we are seeing that.

      So yes a good season and hopefully Sunday will confirm that.

      I agree on it being a good season overall (depending on Sundays result) and I hope my post reflects that.

      But, Leicester didn't set out to win the league last season either and they had a very thin squad too. I know that was a freak one-off season that will probably never happen again in our life time, but after sitting top of the league around Christmas time and having played most of our rivals away from home you can't deny that we were in a very strong position and that winning the league was actually do-able despite Chelseas rich form.  Before the season started then winning the league was an unrealistic target as you rightly put, but mid season it became a big reality.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #5 : May 17, 2017 01:12:15 pm »
      I agree on it being a good season overall (depending on Sundays result) and I hope my post reflects that.

      But, Leicester didn't set out to win the league last season either and they had a very thin squad too. I know that was a freak one-off season that will probably never happen again in our life time, but after sitting top of the league around Christmas time and having played most of our rivals away from home you can't deny that we were in a very strong position and that winning the league was actually do-able despite Chelseas rich form.  Before the season started then winning the league was an unrealistic target as you rightly put, but mid season it became a big reality.

      Yeah it did look at one point as if we could carry on competing however the ugly reality of a thin squad came home to roost.

      In hindsight maybe we didn't bring in enough numbers in the Summer but it's not always easy bringing in so many players in one go.

      Leicester like Chelsea were also extremely lucky on the injury front but maybe that's something to do with the style of football that Klopp demands hence the need for a bigger squad.

      Pretty sure City thought they would walk the league after winning 10 on the trot at the start of the season.
      So hot streaks of form are not always indicative of where you finish.

      brezipool
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #6 : May 17, 2017 01:18:12 pm »
      In terms of league position of course its been a good season, we have many more points than last season.

      Most disappointing part was all the Injuries to key players, which cost us badly in January.

      We have recovered quite well since January to get ourselves back into the top 4.

      All in all another step in the right direction.

      But yes disappointed no trophy again.

      MIRO
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #7 : May 17, 2017 01:25:38 pm »
      If we get back into the CL ... YES.

      However we have skated on thin ice to do it and all plaudits must go to Klopp for doing it with an inherited squad.

      Lets get some key players in so we can stay at football's top table year in year out ... as we used to be.


      The Old Lady of Turin re emerged .

      So will we.
      « Last Edit: May 17, 2017 06:28:02 pm by MIRO »
      billythered
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #8 : May 17, 2017 02:22:29 pm »
      If we get back into the CL yes.

      However we have skated on thin ice to do it and all plaudits must go to Klopp for doing it with an inherited squad.

      Lets get some key players in so we can stay at football's top table year in year out ... as we used to be.


      The Old Lady of Turin re emerged .

      So will we.

      Yep,
      "The old bird of Anfield"
      hasn't quite got the same ring to it Skip, but just like that other bird the Phoenix, we're rising!!

      YNWA
      RobieSlick
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #9 : May 17, 2017 02:37:11 pm »
      This post is a week too early in my books.

      Let's wait and see what happens on Sunday before we start analyzing if successful to not.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #10 : May 17, 2017 05:45:20 pm »
      No problem with the timing of this post at all. Obviously if we somehow fail to qualify, it is a big setback in the progression of things.

      I wouldn't call this season "a success" because to me, "success" for this club has to involve winning a trophy.

      What the season does represent however, is a positive step forward in, as Klopp calls it, a football project. Our lack of success in the league for more than 25 seasons, plus the trauma and residue from all the ownership drama, mean the road back was never going to include a shortcut. Klopp is clearly trying to build something sustainable and while it will involve some financial power being deployed, there is a newer method of building a champion involving a larger component of training and tactics and team-building. This will be more sustainable when accomplished then just buy, buy, buy.  I think he's built the hull of the ship pretty well and now we need some key superstructure parts.

      But make no mistake, the goal next season has to be seriously competing for trophies in all competitions, which must involve a significant step in that same, positive direction.
      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #11 : May 17, 2017 06:49:19 pm »
      Nice, Robbie! Love the ship analogy!

      I think at times this season there's been a hole in the stern, which appears to have been patched-up; and the pointy bit at the front has struggled to cut through the lumpiest seas, until a crocked able seaman re-emerged once more from the sick bay to polish it up.

      For much of the season, the bridge has been devoid of a captain, and the first mate shipped out to Africa for some shore leave. 

      Fortunately, just before arriving safely in port, the lads in the engine room managed to repair a dodgy old turbine and run it successfully, if at a somewhat slower speed. The shiny new German-engineered one has been having a few teething troubles since installation, but is being gradually run-up to full revolutions.  Fortunately, our trusty South American boiler has proved so impressive that some Spanish pirates may be about to attempt a boarding in order to 'borrow' it. 

      The port side has been in need of a new lick of paint, and has looked increasingly rusty, while the starboard has had mixed success pushing forward.  As for the funnels, they kept needing replacement as first one, then the other, proved a little bit wobbly, and when replaced by a cheap Eastern European import, looked like going up in smoke.

      More German technology (and rather fetching she was too) was installed in the galley, with the aim of raising the crew's spirits and improving their efforts on the high seas.  One former old salt was finally cast overboard like the Jonah he was, and was last seen cruising Davy Jones' Locker on what looked like a Harley Davidson Motorbike...

      Luckily, an excellent pilot has joined the ship and is steering a safe course toward the sweet harbours of Europe.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #12 : May 17, 2017 07:50:23 pm »
      If you conclude that we finish in the top 4 then the anwser is a resounding yes... We still have a lot of work to do when it comes to bring in the rigth personnel, and only this summers activity in the Transfer market will tell if we can carry that success forward or not....
      FL Red
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #13 : May 17, 2017 07:59:55 pm »
      This has been a tale of two seasons. That first half was sublime for the most part, although struggling against bottom feeders needs sorted out. The second half we had a lot of injuries to deal with and no reinforcements so honestly, as crap as it seems like we've played this year, I think we did pretty damn good for what we dealt with. But overall, even if we finish top 4, with no hardware, it's been a bit of a letdown. We need to be winning trophies and top 4 should be an afterthought and not be such an exercise of nail biting and clenched cheeks.
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #14 : May 17, 2017 08:05:08 pm »
      So basically what some of you saying if you finish 4th it's a good season, if you finish 5th it's a bad season.  :o Well sorry but for teams like ours a top 4 spot isn't really good enough. Standards must be dropping if you think going a season trophyless is ok.

      Just saying.....  ;D
      JD
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #15 : May 17, 2017 08:25:47 pm »
      FA Cup and League Cup campaigns were unsuccessful. 

      Premier League - big improvement, big step forward.  Club should be posting 70+ totals and 20+ wins every season and 13-14 apart it's been sadly lacking this decade.

      I've been encouraged by the signings and even though we've had some horrible injuries, sadly to the better players, we've shown a big improvement.

      The League performance has been better than I was expecting back in August.  I hope we win on Sunday and averaging 2 points per game will be a good platform to build on next year.

      I'm optimistic for the future. 
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #16 : May 17, 2017 09:12:58 pm »
      Open to debate but what's not open to debate is the injuries suffered. Big failure on that front. There has been big injuries to all our major players this year and that isn't good enough. Klopp has to get a grasp of that side of things.
      Scottbot
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #17 : May 17, 2017 09:29:38 pm »
      Can't bring myself to comment until Sunday night!
      billythered
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #18 : May 18, 2017 06:18:11 am »
      So basically what some of you saying if you finish 4th it's a good season, if you finish 5th it's a bad season.  :o Well sorry but for teams like ours a top 4 spot isn't really good enough. Standards must be dropping if you think going a season trophyless is ok.

      Just saying.....  ;D

      Best you get used to it then Keith cos your lot will be chomping at the bit for a 4th place finish in the seasons to come, the way things are shaping up its more than likely Citeh, Chavs, Spuds and of course Lfc will be the main contenders, whilst Newton heath and that lot from Woolwich will have to make do with Thursday night outings for your European exertions,

      Good luck with that,  Heh heh,heh!!!


      YNWA
      MIRO
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #19 : May 18, 2017 06:36:44 am »
      Yep,
      "The old bird of Anfield"
      hasn't quite got the same ring to it Skip, but just like that other bird the Phoenix, we're rising!!

      YNWA

      Thats right Billy.

      Juve have just won their domestic cup final against Lazio and now they are on for the treble.

      Remember 1977 ? 

      The Scum upset our plans  so we have that to go for again... and we will.
      Magillionare
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #20 : May 18, 2017 07:31:42 am »
      At the start of the season most of us voted for top 4 being our target. I'd take that over silverware for this season. Winning the league cup or FA cup attracts the square root of f**k all to the club. Champions League football unlocks the next level of talent. So yes, success.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #21 : May 18, 2017 08:21:42 am »
      After where we finished last year, where we finish this year will be an improvement. We are back in Europe next year, and back to a normal season, 2 games per week on a regular basis.

      Finishing top 4 was the goal at the start of the season, and if we achieve it, it will be seen as a successful season. However, finishing 4th doesn't guarantee European Cup football, all it guarantees is a playoff, so it could be just 2 games and be over by the end of August.

      Of course we wanted more, and at times during the season, it looked like we could get more. But there are other clubs with better resources, or use what they have better than we do. Unlike them, we have found basic problems to be major issues. Playing twice a week and having  busy schedules is normal for big clubs, it's something we need to accept and deal with, not complain about. Beating weaker teams that set out to defend is a basic challenge at all levels of the sport, and we need to find a way to do it, like other big clubs do at home and abroad on a weekly basis, not complain that they won't play the way we want them to. We need to take cups more seriously, so that playing Plymouth is dealt with efficiently, not a 3 hour slog. Lastly, we need to learn the value of fielding a settled side, which allows players to develop partnerships and understandings for the mutual benefit of the side. The practice of resting goalkeepers for cup games is unnecessary and a waste of time, while making up to 10 changes in a line up means those who come in put up performances as against Plymouth and Southampton, with results that reflect it.

      Winning cups may not attract top players, but it does instil a winning mentality in the team and puts Klopp's record in cup finals to rest. The season could be summed up as a work in progress. There's still a lot more work to do.
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #22 : May 18, 2017 10:58:17 am »
      Best you get used to it then Keith cos your lot will be chomping at the bit for a 4th place finish in the seasons to come, the way things are shaping up its more than likely Citeh, Chavs, Spuds and of course Lfc will be the main contenders, whilst Newton heath and that lot from Woolwich will have to make do with Thursday night outings for your European exertions,

      Good luck with that,  Heh heh,heh!!!


      YNWA

      A lot of fans been saying that for nearly two years now Billy yet we've still got a few trophies to show for it, not forgetting a European Cup final next week so this manc not disappointed the way things are going. However, ask me a week today around 10pm I might have a different story.  ;D
      racerx34
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #23 : May 18, 2017 11:10:28 am »
      90 minutes of football will decide.
      JD
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #24 : May 18, 2017 11:14:21 am »
      Finishing top 4 was the goal at the start of the season, and if we achieve it, it will be seen as a successful season. However, finishing 4th doesn't guarantee European Cup football, all it guarantees is a playoff, so it could be just 2 games and be over by the end of August.

      True. 

      If we'd have done this season the other way round, been 8th or so in December and stormed into 4th it would have left a different taste than the rather slow tail off from an excellent start.

      5timesacharm
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #25 : May 18, 2017 11:23:20 am »
      True. 

      If we'd have done this season the other way round, been 8th or so in December and stormed into 4th it would have left a different taste than the rather slow tail off from an excellent start.

      That as it maybe but would storming from 8th to 4th be considered any more successful than sinking from 1st to 4th (assuming we finish there)? It's the league position and the fact we have finished yet another season without silverware that makes this a wholly unsuccessful season, not our dramatic fall from grace. Gaining Champions League football might represent a step forward, but a step forward isn't the same as being successful.
      JD
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #26 : May 18, 2017 11:29:39 am »
      Gaining Champions League football might represent a step forward, but a step forward isn't the same as being successful.

      I totally agree.  I can't call the season as whole a success.  Certain aspects of it have been - the transfers last summer have generally been.  If we had a trophy to show on top of finishing in the top 4 then yes that might have been easier to call.

      As it is we've had a much improved league campaign and are a better team.  I don't think we can say much more than that.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #27 : May 18, 2017 12:16:31 pm »
      I totally agree.  I can't call the season as whole a success.  Certain aspects of it have been - the transfers last summer have generally been.  If we had a trophy to show on top of finishing in the top 4 then yes that might have been easier to call.

      As it is we've had a much improved league campaign and are a better team.  I don't think we can say much more than that.

      But are we much improved? Think about this for a moment. If we do finish 4th, we'll have done so by clinging on with tooth and nail. We won't have done so by our own merits but rather by the failings of other teams. If Arsenal and United had enjoyed what could be considered a normal season by their standards, we'd be looking at another trophyless sixth place finish. Our entire season has been distorted by our overachieving in the first half of it and the underachievements of some of our rivals. I don't think we've improved at all.
      JD
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #28 : May 18, 2017 12:22:37 pm »
      Our entire season has been distorted by our overachieving in the first half of it and the underachievements of some of our rivals

      Chelsea have got 40+ more points
      Spurs have got 10+ more points
      Man City have got 9+ more points
      Arsenal have got 1+ more point
      Man United have got at least the same number of points

      Which of our rivals have been underachieving this season?

      Against that backdrop, we've done well to move from 8th to (possibly 4th) - gaining at least 13+ points.  I think we have improved.
      FL Red
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      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #29 : May 18, 2017 12:43:25 pm »
      But are we much improved? Think about this for a moment. If we do finish 4th, we'll have done so by clinging on with tooth and nail. We won't have done so by our own merits but rather by the failings of other teams. If Arsenal and United had enjoyed what could be considered a normal season by their standards, we'd be looking at another trophyless sixth place finish. Our entire season has been distorted by our overachieving in the first half of it and the underachievements of some of our rivals. I don't think we've improved at all.

      Clinging after enduring some pretty ridiculous injuries. Now sure that's down to Klopp being a bit naive in January and not strengthening, but still....as much as our football has sucked at times, given we've been without our best player(s) for so long, it's really not too terrible.

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