Trending Topics

      Next match: LFC v Brighton [Premier League] Sun 31st Mar @ 2:00 pm
      Anfield

      Today is the 29th of March and on this date LFC's match record is P24 W11 D6 L7

      Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.

      Read 10902 times
      0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
      racerx34
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 33,581 posts | 3826 
      • THE SALT IN THE SOUP
      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #23: May 18, 2017 11:10:28 am
      90 minutes of football will decide.
      JD
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 39,529 posts | 6887 
      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #24: May 18, 2017 11:14:21 am
      Finishing top 4 was the goal at the start of the season, and if we achieve it, it will be seen as a successful season. However, finishing 4th doesn't guarantee European Cup football, all it guarantees is a playoff, so it could be just 2 games and be over by the end of August.

      True. 

      If we'd have done this season the other way round, been 8th or so in December and stormed into 4th it would have left a different taste than the rather slow tail off from an excellent start.

      5timesacharm
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 4,507 posts | 948 
      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #25: May 18, 2017 11:23:20 am
      True. 

      If we'd have done this season the other way round, been 8th or so in December and stormed into 4th it would have left a different taste than the rather slow tail off from an excellent start.

      That as it maybe but would storming from 8th to 4th be considered any more successful than sinking from 1st to 4th (assuming we finish there)? It's the league position and the fact we have finished yet another season without silverware that makes this a wholly unsuccessful season, not our dramatic fall from grace. Gaining Champions League football might represent a step forward, but a step forward isn't the same as being successful.
      JD
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 39,529 posts | 6887 
      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #26: May 18, 2017 11:29:39 am
      Gaining Champions League football might represent a step forward, but a step forward isn't the same as being successful.

      I totally agree.  I can't call the season as whole a success.  Certain aspects of it have been - the transfers last summer have generally been.  If we had a trophy to show on top of finishing in the top 4 then yes that might have been easier to call.

      As it is we've had a much improved league campaign and are a better team.  I don't think we can say much more than that.
      5timesacharm
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 4,507 posts | 948 
      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #27: May 18, 2017 12:16:31 pm
      I totally agree.  I can't call the season as whole a success.  Certain aspects of it have been - the transfers last summer have generally been.  If we had a trophy to show on top of finishing in the top 4 then yes that might have been easier to call.

      As it is we've had a much improved league campaign and are a better team.  I don't think we can say much more than that.

      But are we much improved? Think about this for a moment. If we do finish 4th, we'll have done so by clinging on with tooth and nail. We won't have done so by our own merits but rather by the failings of other teams. If Arsenal and United had enjoyed what could be considered a normal season by their standards, we'd be looking at another trophyless sixth place finish. Our entire season has been distorted by our overachieving in the first half of it and the underachievements of some of our rivals. I don't think we've improved at all.
      JD
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 39,529 posts | 6887 
      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #28: May 18, 2017 12:22:37 pm
      Our entire season has been distorted by our overachieving in the first half of it and the underachievements of some of our rivals

      Chelsea have got 40+ more points
      Spurs have got 10+ more points
      Man City have got 9+ more points
      Arsenal have got 1+ more point
      Man United have got at least the same number of points

      Which of our rivals have been underachieving this season?

      Against that backdrop, we've done well to move from 8th to (possibly 4th) - gaining at least 13+ points.  I think we have improved.
      FL Red
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 31,049 posts | 6294 
      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #29: May 18, 2017 12:43:25 pm
      But are we much improved? Think about this for a moment. If we do finish 4th, we'll have done so by clinging on with tooth and nail. We won't have done so by our own merits but rather by the failings of other teams. If Arsenal and United had enjoyed what could be considered a normal season by their standards, we'd be looking at another trophyless sixth place finish. Our entire season has been distorted by our overachieving in the first half of it and the underachievements of some of our rivals. I don't think we've improved at all.

      Clinging after enduring some pretty ridiculous injuries. Now sure that's down to Klopp being a bit naive in January and not strengthening, but still....as much as our football has sucked at times, given we've been without our best player(s) for so long, it's really not too terrible.
      ORCHARD RED
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 8,526 posts | 1457 
      • 6 Times!
      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #30: May 18, 2017 12:48:22 pm
      This season has showed me that Klopp can work wonders, and get a team to punch above their weight. A successful season for me must include trophies, but champions league qualification was a must, so I count this a step closer to where we want to be.
      5timesacharm
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 4,507 posts | 948 
      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #31: May 18, 2017 12:48:42 pm
      Chelsea have got 40+ more points
      Spurs have got 10+ more points
      Man City have got 9+ more points
      Arsenal have got 1+ more point
      Man United have got at least the same number of points

      Which of our rivals have been underachieving this season?

      Against that backdrop, we've done well to move from 8th to (possibly 4th) - gaining at least 13+ points.  I think we have improved.

      Arsenal are most likely to finish the season without Champions League football for the first time in twenty one years. If that's not an underachievement by their standards, I don't know what is. United are the most successful club since the Premier League era began and are set to finish outside the top four, albeit with most likely domestic and European trophies to their name so whilst successful, is still an underachievement by their standards. Indeed if they do win the Europa League then United have had a more successful season and made more progress than us despite their lower points total and league finish.

      Points are not a measure of improvement. If we finished with 100 points in 6th place, is that an achievement? All I'm suggesting is that the club still has a lot of work to do than simply picking up a few more points before it can be considered to have improved. Assuming we both finish in the top four and win our Champions league qualifiers, then next season is the target for improvement. Picking up some silverware and progress from the group stages of the Champions league will represent an improvement over Rodgers who achieved neither during his tenure.
      Mickred
      • Forum John Barnes
      • ***

      • 413 posts | 53 
      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #32: May 18, 2017 01:24:01 pm
      Yes and no for me.

      Yes because we played some lovely football and got good results early on in the season and will hopefully end with Champions League next season.

      No because we basically stopped playing/trying In January / February, otherwise it could have been a different story and a touch of ground hog day at the back.

      Our season would be seen as a good season for the usual mid table side, but for Liverpool, this is simply average!!

      her's to no more ground hog days.. :champ:
      HamannsTheMan
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****
      • Started Topic

      • 3,030 posts | 1973 
      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #33: May 18, 2017 01:32:14 pm
      Arsenal are most likely to finish the season without Champions League football for the first time in twenty one years. If that's not an underachievement by their standards, I don't know what is. United are the most successful club since the Premier League era began and are set to finish outside the top four, albeit with most likely domestic and European trophies to their name so whilst successful, is still an underachievement by their standards. Indeed if they do win the Europa League then United have had a more successful season and made more progress than us despite their lower points total and league finish.

      Points are not a measure of improvement. If we finished with 100 points in 6th place, is that an achievement? All I'm suggesting is that the club still has a lot of work to do than simply picking up a few more points before it can be considered to have improved. Assuming we both finish in the top four and win our Champions league qualifiers, then next season is the target for improvement. Picking up some silverware and progress from the group stages of the Champions league will represent an improvement over Rodgers who achieved neither during his tenure.

      Completely agree, point totals mean nothing if you're still languishing between 5th and 7th.  As my OP states, Arsenal are likely to finish this season with 4 more points than what they achieved last season yet they are likely to drop from 2nd to 5th in league positions.

      If Arsenal go on and win the FA cup though, who has had the better season? Them or us?  They could argue that its them who have the better season, they have a trophy at the end of the day and we don't.

      However each club is different & each club is obviously ran differently. Arsenal are in a very stable position financially so will it really matter to them if they miss out on a season in the CL? I don't think it'll harm them. As you say, they've been in it for 20 odd years and they have none or very little debt so they should have bags of money to spend regardless. They also have two big assets in their squad being Ozil and Sanchez. Having no CL football will not be disastrous for them.

      For us though, it is essential that we have CL football. We have owners who are obsessed with balancing the books, a thin squad, no real world class assets. In business terms, we need that price of CL football. We need that before we can realistically challenge for other honours.

      For me, top four was the realistic target for this season. So if we beat Boro then I'll be relatively satisfied.  Going out of the cup competitions the way we did and giving away some very soft points in the league was disappointing but overall I'll be quite happy, especially when you consider the unfortunate luck we've had with injuries.

      If we finish 5th, then we haven't progressed though despite our point total increasing by some margin. It will just mean that everybody else has progressed too.

      HUYTON RED
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 39,948 posts | 8458 
      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #34: May 18, 2017 02:08:31 pm
      What this season has shown and especially just after Christmas is that if we're going to try and compete in Europe as well next season, we're gonna need a bigger squad.
      Robby The Z
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 9,034 posts | 2690 
      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #35: May 18, 2017 02:18:10 pm
      What this season has shown and especially just after Christmas is that if we're going to try and compete in Europe as well next season, we're gonna need a bigger squad.

      Definitely.

      Another point: If we can win Sunday,and then navigate the playoff round in August, a GREAT thing about making the CL is that we should play a lot more Saturday matches next season due to the Tuesday/Wednesday European fixtures. That would be nice.
      JD
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 39,529 posts | 6887 
      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #36: May 18, 2017 02:30:44 pm
      Points are not a measure of improvement.

      I understand that you don't think the season has been a success, I'm hardly raving about it either but come on now.  League points do provide a decent gauge to measure a teams performances.

      We won 30% more games and lost 30% less games.  I think it's a bit on the harsh side to simply dismiss that as not showing an improvement.

      If Arsenal go on and win the FA cup though, who has had the better season? Them or us?

      Them because they'll have a trophy, in my opinion.  But in some of their own fans opinion, based on their record over ten years of being way more competitive than us, it might not be a success.  It's all relative and based on an individuals point of view.

      As it is for us, we've had 1 trophy in the last 10 years and in the last 7 years we've only even been in the top 5 once. A spectacularly average period - clinging in on the edge of being one of the big six of English football.  Sooner that ends the better.
      JD
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 39,529 posts | 6887 
      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #37: May 18, 2017 02:32:13 pm

      Right on

      HUYTON RED
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 39,948 posts | 8458 
      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #38: May 18, 2017 02:33:08 pm

      Hahaha that did cross my mind when I posted it!
      littleface
      • Needs a Klopp hug or slap or both
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,283 posts | 253 
      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #39: May 18, 2017 03:45:46 pm
      If we qualify for the CL in 4th place then i don't think this has been a successful one , especially considering we will have to play a qualifying game against potential good opponents , 3rd place finish would be adequate .
      My main worry is that mistakes made in the last season will not be learnt from. 4 th place could just end up being papering over some pretty big cracks.
      rossyred
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 9,095 posts | 1635 
      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #40: May 18, 2017 06:06:41 pm
      I think I would say just. I said at start the money we spent ( or didn't) It would be a big ask to get top 4 which we have so that is a success. However, I did say a good cup run would be ideal with no Europe  but I have adamant we tossed the FA off and the Southampton game came at the worst possible . A bit like my school report " Room for improvement "
      alex1995
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 2,185 posts | 165 
      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #41: May 18, 2017 08:05:44 pm
      If we don't win on Sunday, it will be a poor season. 4th is minimum, we were title contenders till January; but for whatever reason Klopp shot himself in the foot by not buying new players and sticking with the same team and same strategy.
      billythered
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 10,821 posts | 4920 
      • From Doubters to Champions of the World
      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #42: May 19, 2017 06:46:13 am
      A lot of fans been saying that for nearly two years now Billy yet we've still got a few trophies to show for it, not forgetting a European Cup final next week so this manc not disappointed the way things are going. However, ask me a week today around 10pm I might have a different story.  ;D

      Can't take anything away from the recent success from your team Keith what I'm eluding to is the golden era you and your friends have witnessed over the years is coming to a end,

      Our period of domination ended in 1990 and it's arguably still the case now, we have had success since of course but not consistently, however, I would say that we are on the verge of being in a position to dine at the top table whereas your lot are being pushed further away,

      I'd be foolish to think the Moaneyone won't turn things round next season but whilst he will undoubtedly strengthen so will all other contenders including ourselves,

      I think a pattern is forming that a changing of the guard is imminent, the usual suspects Chavs & City will be up there but the likes of Spuds and lfc have a managers bringing in a brand of football that's different,

      It hasn't quite worked for us yet but it will, Klopp's first full season with a squad short of numbers and quality, the injuries to key players at key times, Mane at the ACN etc etc,
      Yet he has us on the brink of CL, we will be much better next season, with better quality players, players added that will take us to another level, with more experience,
      Be Afraid Keith, be very afraid, the Phoenix is rising, and our rebirth could spell the start of the lean times for Newton heath, put it another way mate, remember that perch.... We've just landed on it???

      YNWA
      billythered
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 10,821 posts | 4920 
      • From Doubters to Champions of the World
      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #43: May 19, 2017 07:02:38 am

      Thats right Billy.

      Juve have just won their domestic cup final against Lazio and now they are on for the treble.

      Remember 1977 ? 

      The Scum upset our plans  so we have that to go for again... and we will.

      Never ever will forget it mate, my first full season as a Red,
      I agree, I think we're at the start of a golden era under Jürgen, I'm absolutely Gagging to see us in the CL next season, he will bring in the quality to have us challenging the best in Europe, that I have no doubt,
      As for the league I believe we will see a familiar pattern with the top 4 in the coming seasons, not sure in what order though, but I'm confident to say we will be right up there, and like Jürgen said himself we will be champions, it's only a matter of time.

      YNWA
      « Last Edit: May 19, 2017 07:10:07 am by billythered »
      Keith Singleton
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 16,663 posts | 2657 
      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #44: May 19, 2017 09:51:15 am
      Can't take anything away from the recent success from your team Keith what I'm eluding to is the golden era you and your friends have witnessed over the years is coming to a end,

      Our period of domination ended in 1990 and it's arguably still the case now, we have had success since of course but not consistently, however, I would say that we are on the verge of being in a position to dine at the top table whereas your lot are being pushed further away,

      I'd be foolish to think the Moaneyone won't turn things round next season but whilst he will undoubtedly strengthen so will all other contenders including ourselves,

      I think a pattern is forming that a changing of the guard is imminent, the usual suspects Chavs & City will be up there but the likes of Spuds and lfc have a managers bringing in a brand of football that's different,

      It hasn't quite worked for us yet but it will, Klopp's first full season with a squad short of numbers and quality, the injuries to key players at key times, Mane at the ACN etc etc,
      Yet he has us on the brink of CL, we will be much better next season, with better quality players, players added that will take us to another level, with more experience,
      Be Afraid Keith, be very afraid, the Phoenix is rising, and our rebirth could spell the start of the lean times for Newton heath, put it another way mate, remember that perch.... We've just landed on it???

      YNWA
      Cracking post Billy wish I could give you +2 but only allowed plus 1  :D You post typifies why I love reading this forum despite our rivalry which incidentally I wouldn't swap with any team in the world.

      As a reader and being a manc there're members  who would rather me just F**k off back to redcafe and leave this site alone. However, post like this shows me the genuine side of the real supporters that follow Liverpool and not the morons we unfortunately have at both clubs.

      Your post highlights the passed and present of the ups & downs of both our great clubs with heritages other clubs would die for. Tottaly agree where your coming from. The days of any 1 club dominating the Premiership I think now are gone, yes that includes United dispite the money we throw at it.

      You now have a great manager that has got what it takes you to get too that next level. Klopp has had his critics on here but I'm not one of them. There's a saying a workmen never blames his tools! "Well I disagree" Untill he can stamp his own players..(( just like Mourhino)).. On the game I think the tools he's presently got are pretty much average squad players apart from maybe 3, max 4.

      As for being afraid, I am afraid and want that to continue, why?? Just like many fans it's great to watch your arch rivals do battle for the top spots, and yes of course hopefully lose.  ;D  How disappointing was it that the old firm Derby disappeared when Rangers were relegated. Very sad times as personally, I never want to stop playing Liverpool. Can you name a better buzz when beating United? I know some will say the bitters and for the mancs some will say City. Not me!!  There's no match I look forward to more than you guys, the buzz is electrifying and the only game that could possible match it is the Champions League Final.

      The changing of the guard is not imminent, it's already here. If Spurs can keep their manager/ players then they will go might close next year, possible win it for me. Chelsea are Chelsea and arguably are still the team to beat presently. Arsenal in my opinion now need a new manager if their going to have any type of aspirations of winning the Premiership.

      Liverpool's summer signing will tell us plenty. With all but CL football garunteed next year if you don't get the right signings then this current team In my honest opinion will just be making up the numbers as also ran's. Like United you can't afford to keep having bad results against the sh*te teams.

      Next season can't come quick enough as I'm sure you'll agree. I really do hope both our great clubs are in the CL. I know this is all but a pipe dream but could you just imagine United v Liverpool in the Champions League Cup final. Sounds positively lovely  :D
      KopiteLuke
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 21,056 posts | 3784 
      Re: Has 2016-2017 been a successful season? Lets recap.
      Reply #45: May 19, 2017 10:11:29 am
      Can't take anything away from the recent success from your team Keith what I'm eluding to is the golden era you and your friends have witnessed over the years is coming to a end,

      Our period of domination ended in 1990 and it's arguably still the case now, we have had success since of course but not consistently, however, I would say that we are on the verge of being in a position to dine at the top table whereas your lot are being pushed further away,

      I'd be foolish to think the Moaneyone won't turn things round next season but whilst he will undoubtedly strengthen so will all other contenders including ourselves,

      I think a pattern is forming that a changing of the guard is imminent, the usual suspects Chavs & City will be up there but the likes of Spuds and lfc have a managers bringing in a brand of football that's different,

      It hasn't quite worked for us yet but it will, Klopp's first full season with a squad short of numbers and quality, the injuries to key players at key times, Mane at the ACN etc etc,
      Yet he has us on the brink of CL, we will be much better next season, with better quality players, players added that will take us to another level, with more experience,
      Be Afraid Keith, be very afraid, the Phoenix is rising, and our rebirth could spell the start of the lean times for Newton heath, put it another way mate, remember that perch.... We've just landed on it???

      YNWA

      Completely spot on mate.

      I remember us discussing whether you wanted Ancelotti or Klopp and I said to you that you'll love him and hope you can see that scouseness I mentioned all that time back. He gets us, listening to him today about how there's nowhere better, the way he enthuses about the legends of the past, the crowd, the stadium, he just fits like a glove imo.

      Like you say we're making our way back up to that perch pretty damn quickly and if, shouldn't be a big if, but if we can get the result we need in the final game then the leap forward again should put us bang there. Hopefully 16 points progress on last year, that alone would encourage anyone but when you factor in the injuries we've had to which I'd also throw in the Sakho issue (it was late in the window, no doubt the usual mob will be along to say he could have been replaced then and if not then in the Jan window) then we've shown some remarkable form.

      I think people use the top 6 table as a stick to beat Jürgen with at times but getting this squad to produce those results makes me incredibly confident going forward. So when it comes to judging whether this season has been a success, it's ridiculous how much will swing on one game, nearly to a man we'll all agree it has should we get CL footy and that's why you still can't quantify it properly yet with so much on the line.

      Quick Reply