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      Interfaith dialogue

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      FL Red
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #150: May 31, 2017 11:01:44 pm
      He never said the words "I am God"....he alluded to it when answering questions, he did not deny it when pressed by the Jew's, He made statements such as I am who I am...when asked if he was or "I am one with the Father"  and again " Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

      I think the Jews went after him not because they thought he was the messiah but rather a heretic claiming to be so.

      You are aware that "I am" in this sense is the same wording that is attributed to God the father when he referred to himself as the great "I am".

      So in using this terminology, Jesus is most definitely claiming to be God.
      Shabs
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #151: May 31, 2017 11:47:47 pm
      You are aware that "I am" in this sense is the same wording that is attributed to God the father when he referred to himself as the great "I am".

      So in using this terminology, Jesus is most definitely claiming to be God.

      Was all this written down by Jesus (Pbuh) disciples or people who came after him many years later?..
      FL Red
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #152: Jun 01, 2017 02:45:59 am
      Was all this written down by Jesus (Pbuh) disciples or people who came after him many years later?..
      Disciples, depends on what you would consider many. I believe the gospels were generally 30 years or so after Jesus' time on earth. I could be wrong on the detail but I think that's pretty close.
      Kharhaz
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #153: Jun 01, 2017 04:08:18 am
      If you're not an open-minded and do not know how to discuss, please just do not post on this thread. No hatred will be tolerated towards any faith.





      This is an interfaith initiative to discuss different ideas, thoughts, and even differences and likeness.

      • We should reach out to other faiths to learn from those who think differently from us.
      • We all work together to make the world a better place in which we must all live together.
      • We share the experience of the emotions, concepts and arguments of those different from us.

      Where someone is wrong about the faith of others, he/she should learn from the correction without being a fart and the others should teach them.

      Those who write a post, should say what he/she believes in and which domination.


      Faith isnt about wrong or right, its about belief. How can you be wrong about a faith when you believe in it? and how can someone teach you about a belief one person believes is right? I suggest supporting LFC is right, am I a fart to all those who support Tranmere, or Chesterfield? or are you talking about religious beliefs?

      Or are you talking about free speech? religious affairs?  none of these have existed for years

      Say the N word, go on I dare anyone, only a select few can

      Talk about the McCann parents, again, go on, I DARE YOU!

      Why did I write this? Because I know this will be deleted, and the delusion that we have free speech exists.

      It doesn't, It hasn't for years.
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #154: Jun 01, 2017 04:26:15 am
      What I want to know is, who's God is the only real true God?

      They can't all be right, can they.

      I need proof of this before I can have faith in that God.

      “Exceptional claims demand exceptional evidence.”
      andylfcynwa
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #155: Jun 01, 2017 06:55:28 am
      What I want to know is, who's God is the only real true God?

      They can't all be right, can they.

      I need proof of this before I can have faith in that God.

      “Exceptional claims demand exceptional evidence.”

      Why do you think they've been fighting all these centuries all religions thing theirs is the one , and been as none of it can be proved it will never end .
      bigvYNWA
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #156: Jun 01, 2017 07:45:08 am
      I find comedians, even if quite brash, hit the nail on the head on a lot of my thoughts on religious thought. I present this without any means to offend, simply another angle on the discussion. It will likely stir some up a bit, but hey - passion means we're alive, eh?

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4prBWqOGdM

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE
      stuey
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #157: Jun 01, 2017 08:43:06 am
      Faith isnt about wrong or right, its about belief. How can you be wrong about a faith when you believe in it? and how can someone teach you about a belief one person believes is right? I suggest supporting LFC is right, am I a fart to all those who support Tranmere, or Chesterfield? or are you talking about religious beliefs?

      Or are you talking about free speech? religious affairs?  none of these have existed for years

      Say the N word, go on I dare anyone, only a select few can

      Talk about the McCann parents, again, go on, I DARE YOU!

      Why did I write this? Because I know this will be deleted, and the delusion that we have free speech exists.

      It doesn't, It hasn't for years.

      While the option to opine on virtually any subject prevails that particular choice is as near you are going to get to 'free speech'.

      The greatest restraint to that concept is the moral and conscientious aspect contained in the subject matter of the opinion and it's acceptability to the general public, as opposed  to an all powerful ruling body with the strictest censorship paramaters and grotesque consequences for those that step out of line.

      The General Election is the perfect example of democracy in all it's glory.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #158: Jun 01, 2017 11:35:21 am
      What I want to know is, who's God is the only real true God?

      They can't all be right, can they.

      I need proof of this before I can have faith in that God.

      “Exceptional claims demand exceptional evidence.”

      There's a pantheon of God's through every Ancient Civilisation, Monotheism is a fairly recent 'invention' in comparisons, the Abrahamic religions are truly bastardised versions of the Enuma Elish which dates to 7000 bc and is from Sumer in Mesopotamia, which was a polytheistic religion.

      The Sumerians were the first and oldest civilisation that kept recorded documents that we've uncovered in the archeological record, they recorded mundane things like transactions, marriage in the form of cuneiform script on clay tablets, the Enuma Elish is known as the seven tablets of creation (biblical seven days of creation) is the basis of Genesis.

      The Epic of Gilgamesh is a story about a man being informed to build a boat, take animals on board for an incoming deluge, Sounds a lot like Noah, huh ?

      There's even a story about a little boy being put in a reed basket and sent down the river and being found and then raised in the Royal Palace, sounds a lot like Moses to me.

      I could go on and on with similarities like the Adamu created in the garden of Edin, but you can only lead a horse to water, you can't force them to drink from it.

      I guess what i'm trying to say is there was never one God, its always been a pantheon and that's why I don't give Abrahamic religions any credibility what so ever.

      I see people killing each other over these religions and yet the evidence is mind blowingly available to contradict everything that they've been indoctrinated in to.

      The Sumerian Gods weren't some omnipresent sky god, they were flesh and blood and lived amongst them, they record day to day interactions with their Gods in clay tablets.

      The evidence is out there for open minded religious folk of the Abrahamic religions to truly understand the origins of their religions and at the very least question the validity of their chosen scriptures, the problem being they're sold their scriptures on 'faith'.


      FL Red
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #159: Jun 01, 2017 11:49:00 am
      There's a pantheon of God's through every Ancient Civilisation, Monotheism is a fairly recent 'invention' in comparisons, the Abrahamic religions are truly bastardised versions of the Enuma Elish which dates to 7000 bc and is from Sumer in Mesopotamia, which was a polytheistic religion.

      The Sumerians were the first and oldest civilisation that kept recorded documents that we've uncovered in the archeological record, they recorded mundane things like transactions, marriage in the form of cuneiform script on clay tablets, the Enuma Elish is known as the seven tablets of creation (biblical seven days of creation) is the basis of Genesis.

      The Epic of Gilgamesh is a story about a man being informed to build a boat, take animals on board for an incoming deluge, Sounds a lot like Noah, huh ?

      There's even a story about a little boy being put in a reed basket and sent down the river and being found and then raised in the Royal Palace, sounds a lot like Moses to me.

      I could go on and on with similarities like the Adamu created in the garden of Edin, but you can only lead a horse to water, you can't force them to drink from it.

      I guess what i'm trying to say is there was never one God, its always been a pantheon and that's why I don't give Abrahamic religions any credibility what so ever.

      I see people killing each other over these religions and yet the evidence is mind blowingly available to contradict everything that they've been indoctrinated in to.

      The Sumerian Gods weren't some omnipresent sky god, they were flesh and blood and lived amongst them, they record day to day interactions with their Gods in clay tablets.

      The evidence is out there for open minded religious folk of the Abrahamic religions to truly understand the origins of their religions and at the very least question the validity of their chosen scriptures, the problem being they're sold their scriptures on 'faith'.




      I've looked into the flood account regarding Gilgamesh. It has a lot of interesting parallels and while it's true that the Sumerian account was recorded in written form earliest, it was well known that the Hebrew people passed down much of their historical record by word of mouth so it's possible/likely/probable that their account is actually older than the Sumerian account and the Sumerian account could very well have been taken from the Hebrew account. Also, if someone is going to take the Bible at its word as the supreme word of God, believing in its inerrancy, then of course they are going to believe that the Bible's flood account is true.

      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #160: Jun 01, 2017 01:23:58 pm
      My one concern is if a God exists and he is omnipotent and rules all mankind, why allow the horrendous acts committed in his name? I know the whole "free will" argument. But, thats not an excuse. Beheading children, car bombs etc,etc... if at anytime in history he should of intervened it was during the Holocaust and it still happened. Can we say he is a God of peace when he allowed that?
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #161: Jun 01, 2017 02:08:14 pm
      My one concern is if a God exists and he is omnipotent and rules all mankind, why allow the horrendous acts committed in his name? I know the whole "free will" argument. But, thats not an excuse. Beheading children, car bombs etc,etc... if at anytime in history he should of intervened it was during the Holocaust and it still happened. Can we say he is a God of peace when he allowed that?

      Well, if I was God and was the creator of all that (beheading children, car bombs etc.), I'd be hiding to.

      That said, this free will argument is wrong.

      Who let the serpent in to tempt Eve?

      The Garden of Eden experiment was designed (made up), to ensure it's subjects failed, and when they did fail not only were they punished but the rest of mankind was damned for an eternity. If that is what people think is a good 'architect' then they themselves need their heads testing.

      But let's face it, this story's inception had to be; in order to explain the darker side of humanity that was created by a perfect and infallible God. The story conveniently places the burden of guilt choice back onto humans simply because there is no other way of doing this without discrediting the 'creator'.
      FL Red
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #162: Jun 01, 2017 02:33:44 pm
      For anyone that wants to truly understand Christianity I would recommend a book called "The Reason for God" by Timothy Keller. Or better yet, listen to some of his podcasts. He's been very forthright in making himself available to secular events to discuss Christianity. He doesn't attack, he only explains and tries to help people understand the Christian point of view.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #163: Jun 01, 2017 03:05:26 pm
      I've looked into the flood account regarding Gilgamesh. It has a lot of interesting parallels and while it's true that the Sumerian account was recorded in written form earliest, it was well known that the Hebrew people passed down much of their historical record by word of mouth so it's possible/likely/probable that their account is actually older than the Sumerian account and the Sumerian account could very well have been taken from the Hebrew account. Also, if someone is going to take the Bible at its word as the supreme word of God, believing in its inerrancy, then of course they are going to believe that the Bible's flood account is true.

      As interesting as I find that notion its not one I could buy in to, its widely accepted that Abraham him self was born an raised and schooled in UR, Sumeria, also the Sumerian kings list goes back tens of thousands of years so an equally convincing argument could be made for them, then we have the fact that Genesis is a watered down version of the Enuma Elish which goes in to far much greater detail.

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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #164: Jun 01, 2017 07:15:39 pm
      I pose questions of my own faith so I'm not so sure what you are on about.

      "People got smart and dispensed with superstition"

      :lmao:

      Yea, sure we have.

      Religion is a weakness that people without strong faith use to try and prove to themselves that they are "good".


      Well I'd be interested to know what questions you pose if faith isn't susceptible to logic.

      As for superstition; obviously there are still lots of believers but we don't live at a time, at least in the West, where both the state and society are organised around religion.

      That battle was won a long time ago, thanks to the norms and values that arose out of the enlightenment. There is no longer any question of an individual being forced to recant on pain of death for stating facts about the world that contradict religious dogma.

      By subjecting religious/supernatural claims to rational scrutiny and creating a culture in which people expect evidence before accepting what is true, religion has ceased to have the privileged status it once held.

      Once people start asking questions they soon appreciate that one person's claim that 'x' is true because it just IS, has no claim to any higher merit than a person who says 'y' is true because it just IS.

      Much as in EVERY other domain of life, nobody seriously thinks that mere assertion and a funny feeling that something just is true could possibly serve as a substitute for having good reasons.   
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #165: Jun 02, 2017 04:13:03 pm
      You can cross continents from the source of the abrahamic religions to the Mayans and once again you see polytheism, with gods such as Kukulcan, Chac, Ixtab etc etc.

      There's plenty of common parallels between the early polytheistic religions too, they all state the gods brought them civilisation, agriculture, astronomy etc, they all have flood myths too, which shows to me theirs a common ancestry.

      Around 12000 years ago in a period named the younger dryas, a multiple fragmented comet impact on the earth sent us in to a nuclear winter type event, as the climate started to warm as the dust/debris in the atmosphere cleared, large glacial lakes formed on the ice caps, when these lakes burst their banks, tsunamis followed and sea levels rose dramatically and would wipe out coastal settlements.

      This event could be the origin for the flood myths that you find in all the religions/continents.

      Another interesting thing from around the younger dryas period is a megalithic site in Turkey called Gobekli Tepe was carefully buried to preserve it, it wasn't rediscovered until the mid 90's but radio carbon dating dated its burial (not when built) to 10,000 BC.

      Not a massive amount is known about Gobekli Tepe or who built it, but its believed to be a religious center to worship the gods.
      Shabs
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #166: Jun 02, 2017 04:50:24 pm
      Islamic teachings tell us that there were over 124,000 messengers & 313 prophets...

      Each sent to their own nations except Muhammad who was sent to whole mankind.
      stuey
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #167: Jun 03, 2017 09:47:11 am
      But let's face it, this story's inception had to be; in order to explain the darker side of humanity that was created by a perfect and infallible God. The story conveniently places the burden of guilt choice back onto humans simply because there is no other way of doing this without discrediting the 'creator'.

      Conveniently or coincidentally enough the almighty,  omnipotent being is absolved of horror and the onus placed squarely on the shoulders of his creation, something of a ball's up but that proviso is common to all beliefs.

      Barbaric consequences awaited anyone who defied this prehistoric rule book which again was common to all beliefs, this was no more than an ancient method of controlling the masses which had to be diluted in a ratio with enlightenment; unfortunately that statement is not common to all beliefs.
      « Last Edit: Jun 03, 2017 09:51:51 am by stuey »
      Arab Scouse
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #168: Jun 04, 2017 02:25:30 pm
      This is a great article on the psychology of human behavior towards religious beliefs and how we have a long evolutionary history in believing in a supernatural being. mind, article was written in 2005.

      Wanted to share it.
      https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2005/12/is-god-an-accident/304425/

      Roddenberry
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #169: Jun 07, 2017 08:16:42 am

      Each sent to their own nations except Muhammad who was sent to whole mankind.

      I must have missed the part where he did a world tour. ;)
      bigvYNWA
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #170: Jun 07, 2017 09:06:21 am
      I must have missed the part where he did a world tour. ;)


      Surely someone has a tour t-shirt out there? 8)
      LFCexiled
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #171: Jun 07, 2017 09:29:07 am
      I must have missed the part where he did a world tour. ;)


      Well it wasn't really a world tour, he went from Basel to chelsea, and then on loan to Fiorentina then to AS Roma and hopefully he'll be finishing his tour on a high in Liverpool.
      LFCexiled
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #172: Jun 07, 2017 09:30:20 am
      Surely someone has a tour t-shirt out there? 8)



       8)
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #173: Jun 07, 2017 09:35:06 am
      Surely someone has a tour t-shirt out there? 8)

      I didn't know he was part of The Grateful Dead.
      bigvYNWA
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #174: Jun 07, 2017 09:41:05 am
      I didn't know he was part of The Grateful Dead.

      Everyone has their "lost" years, even the divine.

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