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      Interfaith dialogue

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      AZPatriot
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #25: May 24, 2017 11:00:27 pm
      Something reassuring in having a belief I suppose!

      Any way any of you boys know what your God was upto for the billions of years before he decided to create Man Kind?

      Playing footie with Fowler I suppose. :)


      BTW for Buddhists there is no divine being.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #26: May 24, 2017 11:03:08 pm
      Playing footie with Fowler I suppose. :)


      BTW for Buddhists there is no divine being.

      As good as a reply I have ever heard.   :D

      So what are the origins of the Universe from a Buddhist perspective?
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #27: May 24, 2017 11:10:56 pm
      So what are the origins of the Universe from a Buddhist perspective?

      Universe was created by an action of events (what those were???) where there is an action there is ultimately a reaction.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #28: May 24, 2017 11:12:25 pm
      Where do atheists sit in an interfaith discussion?
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #29: May 24, 2017 11:14:12 pm
      Where do atheists sit in an interfaith discussion?

      Well I suppose that an atheist could have faith in themselves, they're families or something else so I suppose they would just sit wherever they wanted to.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #30: May 24, 2017 11:14:17 pm
      Universe was created by an action of events (what those were???) where there is an action there is ultimately a reaction.

      Ah so Newton is one of your disciples  :D ........................ ...just jesting with you.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #31: May 24, 2017 11:16:13 pm
      Where do atheists sit in an interfaith discussion?


      You have to become an agnostic to sit on the fence  :D
      Shabs
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #32: May 24, 2017 11:21:02 pm
      Where do atheists sit in an interfaith discussion?

      You have to admire Atheist, they want clear proof & don't follow blindly..

      Non belief is a belief within itself..
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #33: May 24, 2017 11:21:52 pm
      You have to admire Atheist, they want clear proof & don't follow blindly..

      Non belief is a belief within itself..

      Well said Shabs.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #34: May 24, 2017 11:32:51 pm
      You have to admire Atheist, they want clear proof & don't follow blindly..

      Non belief is a belief within itself..

      I've been told proof exists, in the world around me. I just don't see it, I can see an old masters brushstrokes, the chisel work on an exquisite sculpture but not a single god anywhere.

      Shabs
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #35: May 24, 2017 11:41:11 pm
      I've been told proof exists, in the world around me. I just don't see it, I can see an old masters brushstrokes, the chisel work on an exquisite sculpture but not a single god anywhere.



      The signs of a creator are all around us, above us & below us.. This world simply did not happen out of nothing..

      Nothing can't create nothing if there was nothing to create from..

      The universe is forever expanding, we are not alone, we were not the first creation but we will be the last inhabitants of earth..

      Look within ourselves & marvel the beauty of how our immune system works, the faculties we have, the way our Cerebrum works..

      -LFC-
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #36: May 24, 2017 11:55:16 pm
      My understanding of the world, the universe and all the things in it, as well as my moral values, aren't based on a belief in God or the supernatural but on reason, science, history and our natural propensity to get along -- which is not divinely determined but a fact of our existence and something we can all affect.

      Doubtless I have been influenced by aspects of religion and the history of religion as forces acting on society (where you are born surely goes to determining aspects of who you are) but I don't need religion to guide me through life.

      Religion has ways been catching up with what I would call the contemporary morality -- the morality that is the default standard of our day, which is driven by social progress, our increasing knowledge of the world, and political and economic reality. Religion can't survive unless it adapts -- this is the case now more than ever before.

      Having said that, I am not absolutely against religion.

      Others can believe in what they like, and practice their beliefs as they wish -- but only up to a point. By that I mean I am strong believer in a secular society (which, to all intents and purposes, the UK is -- and I know the arguments), where religion is essentially a private matter. There are many countries where freedom of belief and thought are not so well protected, and I leave others to consider where those places might be.

      Perhaps the most positive thing I can say about religion is that there is a lot to be admired about in terms of religious culture-- the works of art, the music, the poetry, the architecture -- that is inescapably part of our social inheritance.

       I enjoy learning about how other people live, now and in the past. History is our guide in helping us to understand the human condition and how we come to be who we are. You cannot talk about history or society or culture in a deep sense without mention of religion.

      Also the commitment to actually dealing with the important questions of who we are and how we should live is something secular society has at times neglected to fill. At least religion makes a go of it, however daft some of the beliefs may be. I worry that people just don't care and aren't of the mindset to engage with existential questions, instead leaving it to others to decide for them (the market, prevailing opinion, politicians).

      Of all the world's religions, the one that appeals to me most is Buddhism. There is no God as such, although there are various metaphysical claims in it which you can take or leave and yet still appreciate the contemplative aspects of it. All of us are subject to the vicissitudes of life, to all human emotions that push us from one state of mind to another, and yet underneath all of it is a fundamental truth -- that prior to all these mental states and events there is simply the state of being, seeing things as they really are, without the filters our minds so readily apply to the world. There is nothing mystical about that. It is just a very good insight into the way our minds work, one that can help us get through life a bit easier.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #37: May 25, 2017 12:13:09 am
      The signs of a creator are all around us, above us & below us.. This world simply did not happen out of nothing..

      Nothing can't create nothing if there was nothing to create from..

      The universe is forever expanding, we are not alone, we were not the first creation but we will be the last inhabitants of earth..

      Look within ourselves & marvel the beauty of how our immune system works, the faculties we have, the way our Cerebrum works..


      Nope, still nothing. My parents tried, especially my mother. Humans have been around 200,000 years, poor showing of the abrahimic gods showing up so late in our history, especially after hundreds of other gods had laid claim. And when I look at nature, I certainly don't see a god at work and if I did, I'd have to conclude '(s)he' (it?) was a dick. Lets ignore diseases lets go straight to bed bugs, evil little things, the loa loa worm is a right b***ard, the mosquito (no decent god could lay claim to these fuckers), which can not only give you diseases can pass on many a nasty parasite but it's a none human attacking one that cements it for me.

      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #38: May 25, 2017 10:40:53 am
      I cant say I have a solid "Faith". I grew up as Irish Catholic but i couldnt wrap my head around the bible stories or its tenents and rules. The anchor of Catholicism and Christianity is "Faith" not fact. Its strictly based on ones willingness to believe that the Bible is factual and true and I couldnt do it. I actually got kicked out of CCD when I was kid because i didnt believe the stories.

      I'm probably more of a Shinto follower than anything. It stresses honor and personal actions. It teaches and preaches animal rights, respect nature and others. It teaches someone to act with honor, defend your loved ones and family, defend those who cant defend themselves. Be courteous and one tenet ive always tried to follow...Stand and Be Counted. Fight for you beliefs as long as they are worth fighting for. Find something worth dying for and then fight for your life.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #39: May 25, 2017 12:17:32 pm
      Nope, not Islam, there is a whole ''soora'' dedicated to monotheism it's called ''Al Ahad'' which basically confirms it.

      Though what I found strange in the Quran that ''soorat al fatiha'' is a prayer to God from the prophet, which contradicts in many ways the divine status of the book.

      Wrong, Islam is based on the bible, hence Jesus, Mary, Moses etc etc, the bible is based on the Torah, the Torah is based on the Sumerian epics.

      Trace the lineage/origins.

      Humans have been around 200,000 years, poor showing of the abrahimic gods showing up so late in our history, especially after hundreds of other gods had laid claim.

      Coincidentally the Sumerian Kings list spans back as far as 200,000 years and as they're the source material for the Abrahamic religions, did they really show up late to the party?

      It's worth noting the abydos kings list of Egypt also spans a similar time frame.

      Two civilisations from the same period..

      The Vedic texts also point to a similar time frame.

      Darwinism is holding us back in terms of origins.
      « Last Edit: May 25, 2017 12:21:44 pm by RedLFCBlood »
      Swab
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #40: May 25, 2017 02:37:45 pm
      I was raised as a Catholic, as is the norm in RoI, but quickly started to move away from the religion as an adult.

      It was strange, because on the one hand, my Mother was pretty devout, but my Father as a committed Socialist was kind of caught between 2 stools so to speak.
      As he was by far the biggest influence on me as a child and young man, I slowly went down the route of becoming a "lapsed Catholic", which I find a peculiar phrase.

      So I have a situation where I say I've left the Church, but the Church says I can never leave having been Baptised into the faith, to which I say, f**k off.

      I suppose I'm more of an Agnostic than an Atheist, and the main reason for me leaving the RCC was that I don't believe religion should be based on guilt.
      I believe that religion should be a celebration of life, but the RCC, at least in Ireland is all about control through guilt to me.

      It causes a bit of friction when I go home to visit; I refuse to go to Mass, and won't take part in any religious activities, which doesn't go down well with the more devout family members, who think maybe I should just go along to get along, but to me that would be hypocrisy.

      So I don't follow a religion, I'm not exactly a "believer", but I'm not really an Atheist either.

      I suppose the reason for being an agnostic, is that I find it equally strange of people to say "there is definitely a God" and "there is definitely no God".
      There's no certainty, there is only belief, and on a personal level, we understand so little about our Universe, that it seems arrogant to me to dismiss anything.
      We don't really know the size or extent of our Universe, we have theories about multiverse, and just on a single question, we have no idea what makes up the vast majority of the Universe around us, not being able to detect around 90% of it.

      That question alone, about Dark Matter (and the various spin offs) means we cannot possibly begin to understand the nature of the Universe.
      Yes we've made some progress with the Universe as we perceive it, or the "observable to us" part of it, but the reality is that that is a tiny fraction of what is out there.

      So it's entirely possible that there is a God, just as it's entirely possible the Universe is a Hologram.
      Which begs the question of "Is what we think of as God, merely the creator of a holographic Universe?"
      It's a minefield of metaphysics, and better men (and women) than me have struggled with similar questions throughout the history of mankind, but it's also kind of fun.

      And that's where I am today.
      clint_call01
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #41: May 25, 2017 02:57:32 pm
      Where do atheists sit in an interfaith discussion?

      More than welcome mate, to discuss and argument against our own different faith or belief.
      Arab Scouse
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #42: May 25, 2017 06:36:43 pm
      Wrong, Islam is based on the bible, hence Jesus, Mary, Moses etc etc, the bible is based on the Torah, the Torah is based on the Sumerian epics.

      Trace the lineage/origins.

      Coincidentally the Sumerian Kings list spans back as far as 200,000 years and as they're the source material for the Abrahamic religions, did they really show up late to the party?

      It's worth noting the abydos kings list of Egypt also spans a similar time frame.

      Two civilisations from the same period..

      The Vedic texts also point to a similar time frame.

      Darwinism is holding us back in terms of origins.

      There is truth in what you say on lineage, but keep in mind that religion evolves over time, hence each Abrahamic is kind of different from one another but share similar core. Islam is based a lot on Judaism because the prophet Mohamed was highly influenced by Jewish tribes during his time in Yathrib (modern day Madina). Plus if you read more about the history of Islam the prophet of Islam was always a monotheist in his early days. He preached against polytheism by cursing polytheistic Gods and destroying the statues later on when he went into Mecca. If you want, you can refer to the sira about this. Also, I might be wrong but I read a bit from a scholar (forgot the name) who stated that the prophet Mohamed met lots of Christians during his merchant days in Damascus & Jerusalem and he was influenced by nontrinitarianism Christians to come up with sooras like soorat ''al ahad'' (one God, no heir). You really can't expect that over the years the origins stay the same, they change and evolve. The reason why Muslims reject the Christian Holy trinity is because the Quran rejects the idea of of more than one God or people associated with God.

      I was brought up as a Shia Muslim, even studied in a religious school when I was younger, but thankfully my parents took me out of religious school and put me in a more secular and open minded environment. Now I just follow Islam culturally (bringing gifts in eid holidays, going to iftar events during ramadan, etc...). Not at all religious and I don't need to follow a book of rules who I think are outdated for this time

      Arab Scouse
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #43: May 25, 2017 06:40:41 pm
      I was raised as a Catholic, as is the norm in RoI, but quickly started to move away from the religion as an adult.

      It was strange, because on the one hand, my Mother was pretty devout, but my Father as a committed Socialist was kind of caught between 2 stools so to speak.
      As he was by far the biggest influence on me as a child and young man, I slowly went down the route of becoming a "lapsed Catholic", which I find a peculiar phrase.

      So I have a situation where I say I've left the Church, but the Church says I can never leave having been Baptised into the faith, to which I say, f**k off.

      I suppose I'm more of an Agnostic than an Atheist, and the main reason for me leaving the RCC was that I don't believe religion should be based on guilt.





      I would probably put myself in the  80% agnostic 20% atheist category. When I get into debates and people use the the god of the gaps type of argument, I just ask them why can't the answer be ''I don't know''
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #44: May 25, 2017 10:24:51 pm

      Not so sure it was an evolution as much as it was mistranslations.

      Torah Elohym = plural = Gods

      Torah's Origins in Sumer

      Muhammad influenced by Jews.

      See where i'm going ;)
      FL Red
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #45: May 26, 2017 11:53:40 am
      Raised in a Bible believing household, Southern Baptist, always believed in "a" God but never caught hold of me till I was in my early 20's. Very wayward and skeptical (still can be skeptical) but in 2001 I was completely convinced of my conversion (born again) and have been a Christ follower ever since. I believe in the inerrancy of the Bible although I will humbly submit that some things in it are hard to reconcile, but ultimately me not believing in Christ's saving grace would be about as likely as me switching allegiance to Man United.

      While I try to be tolerant of every else's beliefs, ultimately it would be my desire to see everyone to turn Christ. If that wasn't my desire, then I wouldn't be very devout or faithful in my "religion".

      I don't like religion per se, I think religion is one of the most divisive things there is and it gets in the way of truly understanding and following Christ.

      My desire is to love everyone the way that Christ loves me.

      I believe that God is the only moral authority, and I believe that the major issue with most people that don't believe in some form of god is that they are deriving their morals from somewhere that has no claim to authority. There are no morals inherent in natire or the natural world. So if you are deriving your moral value from that then you really are making yourself god.

      That about covers it, I'm always questioning my faith, I feel like that's the only way I can truly ensure that I know what I really believe, but in the end, there's nothing I've ever been presented with that would cause me to doubt my savior enough to make me turn away from Him.

      Great topic idea, I've always wanted to start it myself because I think understanding and peace with others can only come through respectful dialog. So I hope that can be the case in this thread.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #46: May 26, 2017 07:21:20 pm
      Raised in a Bible believing household, Southern Baptist, always believed in "a" God but never caught hold of me till I was in my early 20's. Very wayward and skeptical (still can be skeptical) but in 2001 I was completely convinced of my conversion (born again) and have been a Christ follower ever since. I believe in the inerrancy of the Bible although I will humbly submit that some things in it are hard to reconcile, but ultimately me not believing in Christ's saving grace would be about as likely as me switching allegiance to Man United.

      While I try to be tolerant of every else's beliefs, ultimately it would be my desire to see everyone to turn Christ. If that wasn't my desire, then I wouldn't be very devout or faithful in my "religion".

      I don't like religion per se, I think religion is one of the most divisive things there is and it gets in the way of truly understanding and following Christ.

      My desire is to love everyone the way that Christ loves me.

      I believe that God is the only moral authority, and I believe that the major issue with most people that don't believe in some form of god is that they are deriving their morals from somewhere that has no claim to authority. There are no morals inherent in natire or the natural world. So if you are deriving your moral value from that then you really are making yourself god.

      That about covers it, I'm always questioning my faith, I feel like that's the only way I can truly ensure that I know what I really believe, but in the end, there's nothing I've ever been presented with that would cause me to doubt my savior enough to make me turn away from Him.

      Great topic idea, I've always wanted to start it myself because I think understanding and peace with others can only come through respectful dialog. So I hope that can be the case in this thread.

      Funnest thing for me was being raised a Lutheran "and lets face it they are pretty laid back for the most part" and attending a Lutheran school from K-8 it was quite the shocker to go to a Southern Baptist high school.

      One minute I thought everything was cool...first day at the new school they were showing us a film on the rapture and how we all better change our ways...I was like Whaaat  :o.

      #cultureshock
      FL Red
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #47: May 26, 2017 07:30:23 pm
      Funnest thing for me was being raised a Lutheran "and lets face it they are pretty laid back for the most part" and attending a Lutheran school from K-8 it was quite the shocker to go to a Southern Baptist high school.

      One minute I thought everything was cool...first day at the new school they were showing us a film on the rapture and how we all better change our ways...I was like Whaaat  :o.

      #cultureshock

      Yea, you know there is a lot of variability in the Southern Baptist denomination these days. While I go to a Southern Baptist church, I wouldn't necessarily categorize myself as "Southern Baptist".  And it would really not look much difference to the  unchurched if they were at our church, a Methodist church, or a Lutheran one. Unfortunately all denominations have ways where they get the gospel all wrong, I think humankind loves legalism and grace is a hard thing for people to really wrap  their  head around.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #48: May 26, 2017 08:02:53 pm
      Yea, you know there is a lot of variability in the Southern Baptist denomination these days. While I go to a Southern Baptist church, I wouldn't necessarily categorize myself as "Southern Baptist".  And it would really not look much difference to the  unchurched if they were at our church, a Methodist church, or a Lutheran one. Unfortunately all denominations have ways where they get the gospel all wrong, I think humankind loves legalism and grace is a hard thing for people to really wrap  their  head around.

      Have to agree the sad fact is that in unto itself there is not an iota wrong with the various teachings, it's just when man puts his hands on something he screws it all up.
      LFCexiled
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      Re: Interfaith dialogue
      Reply #49: May 26, 2017 08:08:21 pm
      If you're not an open-minded and do not know how to discuss, please just do not post on this thread. No hatred will be tolerated towards any faith.





      This is an interfaith initiative to discuss different ideas, thoughts, and even differences and likeness.

      • We should reach out to other faiths to learn from those who think differently from us.
      • We all work together to make the world a better place in which we must all live together.
      • We share the experience of the emotions, concepts and arguments of those different from us.

      Where someone is wrong about the faith of others, he/she should learn from the correction without being a fart and the others should teach them.

      Those who write a post, should say what he/she believes in and which domination.


      You wouldn't believe how happy I am to see this thread.

      Well done Clint and well done folks for contributing.

      As for myself, I'm an atheist who lives in hope that something comes along to obliterate religion from people'sā€‹ minds forever.

      Don't take that as a slight on any of your religions or your belief in them at all, I just wish for a world of global unity and religion at this moment in time defies my wish.

      The constant barrage of historic wrong doings just bores the tits off me, it's purely playground and the human race needs, NEEDS to move on.

      We stand at the threshold of joy or destruction and the fulcrum at this moment of time is religion and for me it has no future.

      In my humble opinion.

      People are more informed than ever and some are running in fear of losing their security blanket and some are looking towards a brighter future.

      I embrace religion in basics, in what I believe it was set up to do. The ten commandments, they work in principle but when you start interpreting a book then you open up a can of worms and within them works well be snakes and therein lies the problem.

      If I went into a coma tomorrow and woke up in ten years and my girls were 13,16 and 20 and they told me that John Lennon's imagine was a global anthem I would die a happy man knowing that they were safe.

      Finally and sometimes on this site we forget this basic f**king thing......

      You'll Never Walk Alone.
      « Last Edit: May 26, 2017 08:16:41 pm by LFCexiled »

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