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      News Stories (June 2017)

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      Ribapuru
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #25: Jun 14, 2017 12:38:04 pm
      Landlord has some kind of neglect to answer for. No sprinklers and that flammable cladding.
      RedPuppy
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #26: Jun 14, 2017 12:50:23 pm
      Different rules for communal housing fire systems apparently. Seems crazy, as I'm used to commercial fire regulations.

      I can see the rational for them, but still seem crazy.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #27: Jun 14, 2017 12:53:27 pm
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #28: Jun 14, 2017 12:56:59 pm
      Different rules for communal housing fire systems apparently. Seems crazy, as I'm used to commercial fire regulations.

      I can see the rational for them, but still seem crazy.

      From just a couple of months ago!

      GOVERNMENT ENDANGERING TOWER BLOCKS BY DELAYING FIRE SAFETY REGULATIONS REVIEW

      Experts have warned that a government delay in reviewing building regulations could be endangering tower blocks throughout the UK.

      Following a catastrophic tower block fire at Lakanal House in South London in 2009, which claimed six lives, fire safety failings were uncovered in the resulting investigation. These failings included inadequate fire risk assessments and panels on the exterior walls not providing the required fire resistance.

      Southwark Council were recently fined £570,000 after pleading guilty to four criminal charges relating to lapses in fire safety.
      Housing Minister Gavin Barwell said last year that the government will review part B of the Building Regulations 2010, which relate to fire safety, in the aftermath of the fire at Lakanal House.

      Honorary administrative secretary of the All-Party Parliamentary Group, Ronnie King, said the building regulations 'haven't taken account of the Lakanal House fire inquest, or updated recent accredited research'.

      There are still 4,000 tower blocks within the UK which have the same regulations applied to them.
      King added: 'The message to other social landlords and housing providers is unless there is a review the regulations you could face multi-million pound legal costs and compensation should you experience a Lakanal House tragedy.'

      Sam Webb, fire safety expert, said 'really serious questions' should be asked in parliament about fire safety, and that there is a 'conflict' between fire safety and the materials that are used to construct more energy efficient buildings.

      He said: 'The materials are not fire-resistant and in some cases they're flammable.'

      A spokesperson for the Department for Communities and Local Government declined to give a date for the building regulations review, adding that it will place 'in due course'.

      http://www.frmjournal.com/news/news_detail.government-endangering-tower-blocks-by-delaying-fire-safety-regulations-review.html?_tkn=377E56F4-CC00-4738-9E7135BC9AE81941#.WUCr7Qm-NKk.twitter
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #29: Jun 14, 2017 01:08:28 pm

      To put flammable cladding on as part of modern regeneration does seem suspicious. Heart goes out to all those involved and of course their friends and relatives.

      Tragic.
      Shabs
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #30: Jun 14, 2017 01:14:59 pm
      Cladding cost £10 million apparently and was done to make the building look upmarket because of the affluent surroundings, sprinkler system would have cost £330,000..
       
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #31: Jun 14, 2017 01:19:09 pm
      Cladding cost £10 million apparently and was done to make the building look upmarket because of the affluent surroundings, sprinkler system would have cost £330,000..
       

      Yeah there's no way that cladding cost anywhere near that, think he was talking about the regeneration of the area. Also said that to fix the lifts would have only cost £60k and they have never been touched. So basically they weren't putting the money into the buildings at all. They wanted to have to knock them down is what I'm hearing and believing, power surges were reported by action groups and nothing was done.

      Reports that it started by a fridge exploding on the 4th floor, does tend to fit with the power surge explanation, of course it will probably be a week or more before we get definite answers but the landlord and indeed enforcement agencies have a lot to answer for here.

      Desperate, desperate stories coming out about those who were  trapped, so very sad.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #32: Jun 14, 2017 01:20:30 pm
      Another shooting in the States, a US Congressman has been shot during Baseball practice.

      Multiple people shot including US congressman during baseball practice

      A congressman in the US has been shot during a baseball practice, it is being reported.

      Steve Scalise, majority whip, is said to be among those who have been shot along with at least three of his aides.

      The shooting happened in Alexandra, Virginia, this morning, according to reports.

      It is believed he was hit in the hip or leg with a semi-automatic rifle and one of his aides was hit in the chest. Another aide allegedly used a belt as a tourniquet.

      The gunman is said to have been armed with a rifle.

      The shooting happened in East Monroe Street, Del Ray, close to a YMCA, police tweeted at 7.30am local time (12.30pm GMT).


      They tweeted that the suspect was in custody.

      ‘APD investigating multiple shooting 400 block E Monroe St. Suspect believed in custody. Stay from area, let emergency vehicles thru.’

      http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/14/multiple-people-shot-including-us-congressman-during-baseball-practice-6708283/

      HUYTON RED
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #33: Jun 14, 2017 01:23:12 pm
      Yeah there's no way that cladding cost anywhere near that, think he was talking about the regeneration of the area. Also said that to fix the lifts would have only cost £60k and they have never been touched. So basically they weren't putting the money into the buildings at all. They wanted to have to knock them down is what I'm hearing and believing, power surges were reported by action groups and nothing was done.

      Reports that it started by a fridge exploding on the 4th floor, does tend to fit with the power surge explanation, of course it will probably be a week or more before we get definite answers but the landlord and indeed enforcement agencies have a lot to answer for here.

      Desperate, desperate stories coming out about those who were  trapped, so very sad.

      The landlord is basically the local council!

      Also just spotted this on Twitter.

      https://twitter.com/SocialistVoice/status/874951148502953984
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #34: Jun 14, 2017 01:35:52 pm
      I would have expected to have read about something like this from the 80s but not today.

      Thoughts and prayers to all those caught up in this catastrophe.
      JD
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #35: Jun 14, 2017 02:08:35 pm
      Cladding cost £10 million apparently

      You mean the building firm got paid £10M.  Looks like the cladding cost the square root of f**k all.  Subcontractor who put the cladding on as part of the regeneration, surprise surfuckingprise, has since gone bust.
      Shabs
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #36: Jun 14, 2017 02:18:38 pm
      You mean the building firm got paid £10M.  Looks like the cladding cost the square root of f**k all.  Subcontractor who put the cladding on as part of the regeneration, surprise surfuckingprise, has since gone bust.

      Surely all materials used would have gone through Building Regs & passed off?.
      Shabs
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #37: Jun 14, 2017 02:49:49 pm
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #38: Jun 14, 2017 02:57:10 pm
      Surely all materials used would have gone through Building Regs & passed off?.

      Interesting question mate, I'm not sure building regs would have been involved strangely enough as this would have simply fallen into maintenance and repair rather than anything structural. There's a case to be made for the altering of the external view of the building but in reality and judging by the safety record and residents concerns I highly doubt they ever sought building regs approval for their usage.

      As it is I think any of us could have told them that something flammable would not be a good idea and as JD says, it's no surprise for the subcontractors to have gone bust, common tactic just like all your insulation firms and no doubt solar panel firms in the future. Siphon the money, dump the debt and move on to a new limited company.

      Hope that bas**rds get caught and justice is served because they absolutely carry a level of responsibility for this.

      Most shockingly appears to be what Huyton Red posted and the revelations that Theresa May's chief of staff has sat on a report stating a fire risk for over 4 years:

      http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/theresa-mays-chief-of-staff-sat-on-report-warning-high-rise-blocks-like-grenfell-tower-were-vulnerable-to-fire/ar-BBCETB6?li=BBoPRmx
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #39: Jun 14, 2017 07:00:10 pm
      RedWilly
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #40: Jun 14, 2017 10:35:00 pm
      Apparently the cladding allowed the fire to use it as a 'ladder' and climb through the gaps between the surface of the building and the cladding.

      Absolutely disgraceful that there was no alarm system by the sounds of it, but I tell you one thing. The government and the establishment do not give a sh*t about people living on inner city estates until something like this happens.

      And what an effort by the firefighters, reports they were running in and getting as many people out as possible and having to rotate throughout the night because they were all so exhausted.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #41: Jun 14, 2017 10:55:47 pm
      You guys are going to love this reply, first of all massive respect for any firefighter, as explained in the debate with Heimdall in the general election thread I've always thought those on our front line should be paid far more and appreciated to the fullest but this one comes with an even bigger thumbs up from me:

      https://twitter.com/crispymick/status/874999483326754817

      https://twitter.com/SunPictureDesk/status/875082416653828103

      https://twitter.com/crispymick/status/875093691031015424

      Top man Mick!
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #42: Jun 14, 2017 11:14:41 pm


      https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/874988151009406977

      Reminds me of all those images from history like September 11th 2001 or the Blitz and you remember that there is nowhere, regardless of how perilous and catastrophic, that firefighters will not step foot in. True heroes!
      JD
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #43: Jun 15, 2017 09:52:10 am
      Both May and Corbyn to visit the scene today. I wonder which one will go on to meet the public.

      Suppose May can't stay long as Sinn Fein will be waiting in Downing Street.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #44: Jun 15, 2017 10:48:39 am
      Tragic event and kudo's to the Muslims who were awake (ramadan/fasting) that helped to save lives, could have been much worse, R.I.P to all the victims.
      Beerbelly
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #45: Jun 15, 2017 10:57:45 am
      Horrible news this. RIP to those poor souls.

      Where does the criminal liability lie though, where seemingly the culprit for this spread was Oxygen and notably UPVC cladding filled with polyurethane foam which is more retardant to fire? It maybe a case that the materials used met their specific legal requirements, but the legal requirements themselves by virtue of design did not.

      Kensington - is apparently THE richest borough in Britain, yet these flats did not get retrofitted with sprinkler systems. Appalling. That said, I don't know what good an internal sprinkler system would have done considering most of the fire and it's spread was outside the structure. But never the less, water should have by running overhead head in any event, it could have made some difference.

      Tragic.

      This country has recently gone through some right sh*t - like it's jinxed.
      Tayls
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #46: Jun 15, 2017 12:24:54 pm
      Horrible news this. RIP to those poor souls.

      Where does the criminal liability lie though, where seemingly the culprit for this spread was Oxygen and notably UPVC cladding filled with polyurethane foam which is more retardant to fire? It maybe a case that the materials used met their specific legal requirements, but the legal requirements themselves by virtue of design did not.

      Kensington - is apparently THE richest borough in Britain, yet these flats did not get retrofitted with sprinkler systems. Appalling. That said, I don't know what good an internal sprinkler system would have done considering most of the fire and it's spread was outside the structure. But never the less, water should have by running overhead head in any event, it could have made some difference.

      Tragic.

      This country has recently gone through some right sh*t - like it's jinxed.

      We'll have to wait and see on the cladding - hoping the investigation is full and thorough. It certainly seems completely unacceptable that a building renovated a year ago then goes up in flames (within 15 minutes) months later. Considering a lot of older tower blocks were constructed with fire safety of paramount importance it seems highly unlikely that the cladding or any other potential alterations to the building construction or gas supply could not have been a major part of how this happened.

      Quote
      "One of the original architects of Grenfell Tower, which was built in 1974, said the speed of the fire was "incomprehensible".

      Speaking to Victoria Derbyshire, he said: "We built a concrete building and concrete simply doesn't burn like that."

      Several experts have claimed that cladding added to the building last year - made of aluminium composite materials (ACM) - caused the fire to spread so quickly. " - BBC live update page

      In regards to Kensington you are absolutely right it is one of the wealthiest boroughs in London (in terms of resident wealth and property value), and that is precisely the reason that places such as Grenfell Tower are not wanted. The land it stands on is incredibly valuable and an eyesore for the rich apartments and flats in the surrounding area. Elsewhere in London there have been many attempts to knock down old housing blocks and replace them with expensive apartments and one or two "affordable housing units" and gentrify the area, displacing hundreds of poorer residents who depend on council housing or at least somewhere they can afford.

      There is no way this would have happened in a wealthier residence. There is no way the warnings by the residents would have been ignored. This is at the very least gross negligence on the part of the government who have delayed a review into fire safety regulations.

      Seventeen people now confirmed dead, and that will most certainly rise.
      MIRO
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #47: Jun 15, 2017 12:50:00 pm
      Horrible news this. RIP to those poor souls.

      Where does the criminal liability lie though, where seemingly the culprit for this spread was Oxygen and notably UPVC cladding filled with polyurethane foam which is more retardant to fire? It maybe a case that the materials used met their specific legal requirements, but the legal requirements themselves by virtue of design did not.

      Kensington - is apparently THE richest borough in Britain, yet these flats did not get retrofitted with sprinkler systems. Appalling. That said, I don't know what good an internal sprinkler system would have done considering most of the fire and it's spread was outside the structure. But never the less, water should have by running overhead head in any event, it could have made some difference.

      Tragic.

      This country has recently gone through some right sh*t - like it's jinxed.

      The guy from Grand Designs was on this morning being interviewed.

      There is a system thats cheap to install that spreads a fine spray .   It doesn't saturate like a normal system will do it creates a mist that takes the oxygen out of the room and puts the fire out.

      Esay to fit and cheap to do.

      Shabs
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #48: Jun 15, 2017 12:51:18 pm
      Shocking the PM did not meet the residents...

      https://twitter.com/kevin_maguire/status/875314187689496576
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: News Stories (June 2017)
      Reply #49: Jun 15, 2017 01:35:09 pm

      Might sound harsh but if the PM whether that be Corbyn, May or any one else attended every tragedy to speak to victims/survivors etc their diary would be constantly full.

      Also with the London attack being so recent, it could be under advice from security, we really don't know.

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